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Tedd Haggard
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.10.02 08:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Initially I liked the skill queue, but as time has passed I'm starting to loathe it.
I think we should still get skill points that trickle through based on time subscribed, then just allocate them as you need (exactly how it works as when CCP have given us a refund in the past).
I don't have time to log in every other day and sort out my skill queue. Sometimes I just want to take a break, might be for a few days, maybe a few weeks. But I'd be happy to keep my subscription going if I thought my skill points would accumulate when I got back to playing. In fact, it would encourage me to return.
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Mag's
the united
17888
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Posted - 2014.10.02 10:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tedd Haggard wrote:Initially I liked the skill queue, but as time has passed I'm starting to loathe it.
I think we should still get skill points that trickle through based on time subscribed, then just allocate them as you need (exactly how it works as when CCP have given us a refund in the past).
I don't have time to log in every other day and sort out my skill queue. Sometimes I just want to take a break, might be for a few days, maybe a few weeks. But I'd be happy to keep my subscription going if I thought my skill points would accumulate when I got back to playing. In fact, it would encourage me to return.
If you have to log in every other day, then you're either training lots of short skills, or doing something wrong.
If you wish to take a break, then organise your skill set to allow a long training skill for that time.
The skill queue is perfect for what it was designed for. Which was allowing people to log in within the end 24 hours to add or change their training. The rest is down to you to organise and no, we shouldn't get drip fed SP like you ask.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
677
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Posted - 2014.10.02 11:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
help! I must be trapped in the twilight zone... |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
125
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Posted - 2014.10.02 11:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Log on every day to sort out skill queue? The ****?
The shortest time period on any of my skills for another rank is 9 days. |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
90
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Posted - 2014.10.02 11:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
I was thinking going back in time to days of old.... Where there was no queue Is that my two cents or yours? |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
20
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Posted - 2014.10.02 11:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
End you skill queue with an long skill so you have not to log in every day.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5429
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Posted - 2014.10.02 12:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Wait a second.....op knows to Que up multiple skills right...right =]I[= |
Ellendras Silver
The Scope Gallente Federation
150
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Posted - 2014.10.02 12:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
i think its better this way we can save for points but you dont have to worry about queing only about subbing and thats easy. sometime i have a skill that has like a few days left and i wanna go away for a week so i have to put in another skill and change it when i come back. this system you dont need to worry about that anymore.
i dont say it must be like this but i see the benefits and i like them so +1 Carpe noctem |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10270
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Posted - 2014.10.02 13:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
The way it is now, one gathers up skillpoints which get applied to a skill that is chosen beforehand.
You want to change it, so that the skill is chosen afterwards.
If you can not or want not log in to skill, then you can't. That's unfortunate, but isn't really thw fault of the game so there really seems to be no reason to change one of the best skill progression systems in MMO history.
Your moods* are yours and not related to the game at all ... ... and if time doesn't allow you to put in long skills upfront ... ... then you are clearly doing something wrong.
I can say this, based on all the people who easily can do it.
So ... do you have an actual point that supports your idea, besides "i want it, because i want it and that's why it's a good idea." ... ?
*kinks*
*(sometimes i just want to take a break) I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5432
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Posted - 2014.10.02 13:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is a massive fail thread and should be trolled into an early grave lock.
The skill system in eve is one of its best features . =]I[= |
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Tedd Haggard
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.10.02 14:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:The way it is now, one gathers up skillpoints which get applied to a skill that is chosen beforehand.
You want to change it, so that the skill is chosen afterwards.
If you can not or want not log in to skill, then you can't. That's unfortunate, but isn't really thw fault of the game so there really seems to be no reason to change one of the best skill progression systems in MMO history.
Your moods* are yours and not related to the game at all ... ... and if time doesn't allow you to put in long skills upfront ... ... then you are clearly doing something wrong.
I can say this, based on all the people who easily can do it.
So ... do you have an actual point that supports your idea, besides "i want it, because i want it and that's why it's a good idea." ... ?
*kinks*
*(sometimes i just want to take a break)
Wow, way to fly off the handle there. Might wanna take a break yourself. I like the skill system, just don't like the queue. No complicated reason, no moods, no mommy and daddy issues. It just doesn't suit my availability. When you grow up and move out of your parents basement, you'll see what I mean.
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Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
184
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Posted - 2014.10.02 14:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
The skill queue is an annoyance that needs to be dealt with. Longer queue would be a better idea than SP points building up, but the latter is still better than the non-sense we have today.
Defenders of the status quo, please explain to me how the current skill queue adds any content to a PVP spaceship game. Please do defend your position that being forced to login just to drag something from left to right then log out is a good game mechanic.
Here is my explanation as to why you folks defend this awful mechanic: - You are mostly older players who have mostly 15+ day skills left, and are thus largely unaffected by the 24 hour limit of adding skills. - At some point you tortured yourselves when you had to add smaller skills to the queue, and can't stand the idea of other players not having to do the same - You forget that some skills - like armor compensation - take 1 day 7 hours to train, which means each time you add those kinds of skills you need to login the next day no matter what.
Literally defending a mechanic that forces people to login to a video game to drag something from left to right. Great job guys.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2826
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Posted - 2014.10.02 14:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tedd Haggard wrote:Wow, way to fly off the handle there. Might wanna take a break yourself. I like the skill system, just don't like the queue. No complicated reason, no moods, no mommy and daddy issues. It just doesn't suit my availability. When you grow up and move out of your parents basement, you'll see what I mean.
Posting to confirm that I live alone and pay my own rent and still have no idea how you're unable to properly take advantage of the skill queue.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5670
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Posted - 2014.10.02 14:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:This is a massive fail thread and should be trolled into an early grave lock.
The skill system in eve is one of its best features .
Personally, the number of people playing Skillpoints Online disturbs me, but at the end of the day, it's their money to burn how they wanna burn it.
And it doesn't disturb me NEARLY as much as getting robbed. Once, I was approached by a stranger from behind, in broad daylight and heard a voice whisper "Give me all your money" and stuck the tip of a magnum in the small of his back.
I was really quite petrified and I thought I'd better do what he said... there was melted ice cream and chocolate getting all over my new white shirt. Do you know how hard chocolate is to get out of a white shirt?
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
23
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Posted - 2014.10.02 14:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:This is a massive fail thread and should be trolled into an early grave lock.
The skill system in eve is one of its best features .
I will disagree with this. My son is an example of a problem inherent in the current system. His job often requires him to travel to places or situations where he cannot log in and stack skills. Often this puts him in a place where days or even weeks go by that he has not skills in the que. Maybe this is a rare set of circumstances but it does point out a potential flaw in the system.
In the system proposed by the OP every active account would accrue skill points at a given rate over time. Once the proper number of points had been gained they are applied to a skill of your choosing, I fail to see how this would affect skill training or how/why it would be bad for the game. Let's say we have a skill that needs 5 days to train currently we que it up and wait, 5 days later we have trained that skill. In the proposed system you would wait 5 days for the SP needed to accrue then in a single click apply those points to the appropriate skill.
Maybe you are a EVE purist and do not like this idea because it threatens to change something that has always been.
Perhaps you just want to punish a few because their real life prevents them from logging in at the appropriate moment to stack skills. And please spare all of us the rhetoric about you can easily plan these things in advance because that is not realistic in the face unexpected changes that life often brings our way.
To the OP I say +1
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2826
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Posted - 2014.10.02 14:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:Literally defending a mechanic that forces people to login to a video game to drag something from left to right, then log out.
Nobody is being forced to log in. OP can choose to log in or not. Everyone can choose to log in or not.
Please be aware that the skill queue was not given to us in order to let people go days and days without having to log in to EVE. The Skill Queue was given to us so that people would stop alarm-clocking 3am skill changes. CCP kept the skill queue deliberately short so that people would still have to log into the game.
A game you don't have to log into for weeks at a time is a game you're more likely to question keeping a subscription for and everyone with an ounce of sense is aware of that. The queue is fine as-is and does not need to be made longer. If real life is keeping you away from the skill queue, then perhaps you should be focusing more on real life instead of worrying about some spaceship skillpoints on the internet. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4394
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
How about a compromise?
Rather than allowing the queue to expire, due to uncontrollable real life issues, have the queue default to adding points to the first available skill the character has?
Alphabetically, and progressing through each level of said skill till maxxed out. (If you have the skill injected, and it is alphabetically at the top in the first alphabetical category)
For me, that would begin dumping points into repair systems level 5, under the armor category. (I am either missing the skill books, or am maxxed out in each skill up to that point for Armor)
Sure, we may not like the skills it picks, but you at least are not losing points. And you know eventually it will be something you want, if not need. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5437
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
And what of attributes hmmm? =]I[= |
Tedd Haggard
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:How about a compromise?
Rather than allowing the queue to expire, due to uncontrollable real life issues, have the queue default to adding points to the first available skill the character has?
Alphabetically, and progressing through each level of said skill till maxxed out. (If you have the skill injected, and it is alphabetically at the top in the first alphabetical category)
For me, that would begin dumping points into repair systems level 5, under the armor category. (I am either missing the skill books, or am maxxed out in each skill up to that point for Armor)
Sure, we may not like the skills it picks, but you at least are not losing points. And you know eventually it will be something you want, if not need.
Maybe not alphabetically, if it was to go this way I'd prioritize partially training skills. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10277
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:Solstice, remember that post you made a while back about how you felt really bad that you used to sperge out at people on the forum, and that you'd decided to change your ways? You're probably the only one left who calls me by "my" name. :) Except Ero maybe and DJ who can't pronounce Solecist. *snickers xD*
Yeah I don't think it was out of the line. It was accurate and to the point. Just because I crushed it, doesn't mean I attack him. :p
And hey, my ratio really improved! d: I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread |
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4394
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tedd Haggard wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:How about a compromise?
Rather than allowing the queue to expire, due to uncontrollable real life issues, have the queue default to adding points to the first available skill the character has?
Alphabetically, and progressing through each level of said skill till maxxed out. (If you have the skill injected, and it is alphabetically at the top in the first alphabetical category)
For me, that would begin dumping points into repair systems level 5, under the armor category. (I am either missing the skill books, or am maxxed out in each skill up to that point for Armor)
Sure, we may not like the skills it picks, but you at least are not losing points. And you know eventually it will be something you want, if not need. Maybe not alphabetically, if it was to go this way I'd prioritize partially training skills. The requirement here would be the skill has to be at least injected. It is an alphabetical progression starting at category, then to skills inside of that which could be added to a queue directly. That would be the same as trained to level zero, so already meets your interest in that perspective.
For example, I do not have every armor skill maxxed out, but the first available skill that can be trained for me is repair systems. I do not have a number of armor skills even trained / injected, since they relate to capital ships I am not focused on. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Iain Cariaba
419
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Posted - 2014.10.02 16:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote:The skill queue is an annoyance that needs to be dealt with. Longer queue would be a better idea than SP points building up, but the latter is still better than the non-sense we have today.
Defenders of the status quo, please explain to me how the current skill queue adds any content to a PVP spaceship game. Please do defend your position that being forced to login just to drag something from left to right then log out is a good game mechanic.
Here is my explanation as to why you folks defend this awful mechanic: - You are mostly older players who have mostly 15+ day skills left, and are thus largely unaffected by the 24 hour limit of adding skills. - At some point you tortured yourselves when you had to add smaller skills to the queue, and can't stand the idea of other players not having to do the same - You forget that some skills - like armor compensation - take 1 day 7 hours to train, which means each time you add those kinds of skills you need to login the next day no matter what.
Literally defending a mechanic that forces people to login to a video game to drag something from left to right, then log out. Great job guys. How does the skill queue add content? Because once you learn how to properly use the skill queue, you don't miss out on SP. Prior to the skill queue, once your skill was done you either logged on right then to change it or you stopped training until you next logged on. I couldn't guess how many SP short I am from all the time pre-queue that I just didn't want to get up, when my alarm went off at 2:30 in the ******* morning, just to change a skill. Or maybe I was at work, without the ability to log into EvE, so there's several hours of no training til I can get home and change my skill train.
The only reason you think this is an awful mechanic is because you have no clue what the system was before the queue. Without that comparison, you don't have the necessary knowledge to come to an informed opinion, you just don't like it.
1) I just recently, within the last month, started an alt down a new career path. That meant I needed to train 8 different skills that I didn't already have. The skill queue allowed me to get a full day's training in without having to log off the other alt I was using on that account, and let me get a full night's sleep without having to set my alarm to change skills. 2) Again, shows you're too young in this game to have an informed opinion. Bittervets are always making new alts, which start the same place you did. 3) So what if armor compensation takes 1d 7h to train. Log on for 2 minutes in 8 hours, set a level 5 skill in the queue, and put some SP into those long trains til you log on again.
Lastly, I see no problems with a mechanic that forces people to play the ******* game. Many times over the years I have logged in to change skills, even change my queue, and ended up spending several hours in fleet cause something was happening that I'd have missed if I didn't log on for weeks at a time. Disclaimer: My opinion does not necessarily reflect that of my corp or alliance. My opinion is my own, and if you don't like, that is your problem. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4394
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Posted - 2014.10.02 16:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:...
Lastly, I see no problems with a mechanic that forces people to play the ******* game. Many times over the years I have logged in to change skills, even change my queue, and ended up spending several hours in fleet cause something was happening that I'd have missed if I didn't log on for weeks at a time. So you have a lifestyle where you can routinely afford to blow off several hours, clearly unplanned by your own words.
I envy you.
Between my job and my family, the ability to be so impulsive is a dim memory to me. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Josh Cox
FC Build 'n Trade
10
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Posted - 2014.10.02 16:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
I somewhat understand the need for this (because I think most of the people that have problems with the skill queue simply don't like logging in to manage the queue), but this proposal totally negates attributes and the important decision making involved in that.
So my counter proposal:
Allow the queue to continue accruing SP after it has run out, but only at 765 SP/hr for an empty queue. Unless my math is wrong, 765 SP/hr is half the rate of training with your worst-mapped attributes without implants. This way diligent people are rewarded for taking the time to plan properly, allows people who legitimately can't log in to not be completely screwed, and doesn't allow |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
677
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Posted - 2014.10.02 16:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Josh Cox wrote:I somewhat understand the need for this (because I think most of the people that have problems with the skill queue simply don't like logging in to manage the queue), but this proposal totally negates attributes and the important decision making involved in that.
So my counter proposal:
Allow the queue to continue accruing SP after it has run out, but only at 765 SP/hr for an empty queue. Unless my math is wrong, 765 SP/hr is half the rate of training with your worst-mapped attributes without implants. This way diligent people are rewarded for taking the time to plan properly, allows people who legitimately can't log in to not be completely screwed, and doesn't allow
This allows people to create characters without any effort for sale on the bazaar...anything that gives 'reward' should involve effort in my opinion... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6187
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Posted - 2014.10.02 17:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tedd Haggard wrote: I don't have time to log in every other day and sort out my skill queue.
I wish I had your problem.
I have characters I haven't logged into in a month and a half and it will still be another 15 days before i need to inject the next skill. I'm not even sure what got into my head to train a bunch of capital pilots. I hardly ever use them. But there you go.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Poena Loveless
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.10.02 20:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
How would this not get abused as a skill on demand system? And how do you determine the SP you gain unless we completely removed training implants and remaps and just all have a flat SP/minute rate? I see alts with millions of 'unused' SP just waiting for the 'next big thing' rather than training for a goal and making a good judgment and investment in what is the best use of your skilling time. |
Triturus Alpestris
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.10.02 22:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
yeah its stupid when something happens in RL and I cant log in for a day or two...
I think the queue should be a month, when someone unsubs the training stops anyway after 3 days.. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
498
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Posted - 2014.10.02 22:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Poena Loveless wrote:How would this not get abused as a skill on demand system? And how do you determine the SP you gain unless we completely removed training implants and remaps and just all have a flat SP/minute rate? I see alts with millions of 'unused' SP just waiting for the 'next big thing' rather than training for a goal and making a good judgment and investment in what is the best use of your skilling time.
this would be the issue....
Build up SP, see ship A nerfed but ship B buffed 6 months from now, slap in ship B skills just like that.
Rest....my take on lost sp due to empty queue is if rl that busy, handle that rl stuff and remember eve is a game. And yes I have had a few non-training periods in my time in eve. I have found when life is dumping crap on you...depending on how bad the crap is it won't even matter. I actually made jokes about it to myself. going you know the problem of not training is a funny kind of 1st world problem given the rest of the crap going on atm.
Well that and my usual if you got time to check your Hotmail (well outlook now, or others you like), eve is just a few mouse clicks away too. Sad but true story, family emergency came up a bit back, last minute plans to fly back to the states (I live and work overeseas). Checking my flight info last time night before flight. I fire up eve for just for a quick distraction (needed something tbh...and well I am right there). See a skill running out in 3 days. Know once in states I won't give 2 craps about my skill lists. Dropped the 3 day train to finish at later time, chucked in a nice month long train. Handled my business in states not checking eve and that long ass skill ran.
Moral of that story. When RL goes to crap (or going in vaca for better times).....throw in that really long skill you have been putting off.
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Banana1x
Banana Co.
44
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Posted - 2014.10.02 23:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Josh Cox wrote:I somewhat understand the need for this (because I think most of the people that have problems with the skill queue simply don't like logging in to manage the queue), but this proposal totally negates attributes and the important decision making involved in that.
So my counter proposal:
Allow the queue to continue accruing SP after it has run out, but only at 765 SP/hr for an empty queue. Unless my math is wrong, 765 SP/hr is half the rate of training with your worst-mapped attributes without implants. This way diligent people are rewarded for taking the time to plan properly, allows people who legitimately can't log in to not be completely screwed, and doesn't allow This allows people to create characters without any effort for sale on the bazaar...anything that gives 'reward' should involve effort in my opinion...
Effort is expended in the form of subscription fees. And, if needs be, it could be restricted to only those that subscribe not plex their account.
Also, who cares about the character bazaar in a game that's over 10 years old? should we really limit the game for people because you think it adds a challenge for those that sell characters? That's a terrible reason. |
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