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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Anthar Thebess
753
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Posted - 2014.10.03 23:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I love the changes, but they have some holes , let put some ideas how we can abuse it now For example this archon. It warps almost as fast as talwar - it will travel by gates faster than a battleship. Can refit on other ship in fleet. So again capital EHP + capital repair + immunity to cyno jammers + ability to jump out from system if something is going wrong.
[Archon, New Slowcat] Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Target Painter Republic Fleet Target Painter Drone Navigation Computer II Drone Navigation Computer II
Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I Capital Remote Armor Repairer I Capital Remote Armor Repairer I Drone Link Augmentor II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Einherji x10
This is simple example, as you can fit more tank/utility when you put proper implants. Implants that will be cheaper than those rigs. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Christopher Mabata
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
184
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Posted - 2014.10.03 23:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
You did forget it aligns at the relative speed of a pregnant bathtub and has the signature radius of new york, not quite a talwar yet but your getting there, verrrry slowly your getting there. And no its not immune to jumping if the **** hits the fan someone in a frig is going to tackle it and your going to have to lock it until next christmas before you can sick your drones on it Is it bad if your friend says "that was a Metaphor" and you say "Meta 4? Get Tech II or faction" ?I love the sound of silent explosions in Space.-á |
Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
316
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Posted - 2014.10.04 01:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
I have to agree that trimarks add too much tank to put hyperspats in those slots.
That being said, I could see blobs fitting the low slot hyperspats until they get to/near the fight, where they can refit off themselves for some actual tank. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
829
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Posted - 2014.10.04 03:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Align time can be worked around but while I can see the rise of slowcat type carrier roams after this jump range thing I doubt it will be archons or einherji (which are a terrible choice of fighter). |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2835
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Posted - 2014.10.04 05:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Align time can be worked around but while I can see the rise of slowcat type carrier roams after this jump range thing I doubt it will be archons or einherji (which are a terrible choice of fighter).
It will be Thanatoses and Sentry Drones, more than likely, until CCP wises up, gets the point and prohibits carriers from using anything smaller than a Fighter. |
Anthar Thebess
755
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Posted - 2014.10.04 06:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Actually bloobs are already planing to use this kind ships. They are harder than battleship doctrine , but you cannot bomb this , fighters can eat almost every thing. Align time - remember that you can use mwd trick. Those modules are to big to be refit.
Someone is camping 1j ahead? Send cyno ship and use your jump drive.
Logistics? Each ship in the fleet is a logistics.
We are talking about doctrine that cannot be again stopped by any subcapital doctrine. Yes until they refit to tank ( only DDA II in low ) they are less resistant to alpha shoots, but in case of dps , those are still slowcats using capital reps.
Of course you have in those carriers replacement for lost tackling ships. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Athryn Bellee
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
34
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Posted - 2014.10.04 06:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Align time can be worked around but while I can see the rise of slowcat type carrier roams after this jump range thing I doubt it will be archons or einherji (which are a terrible choice of fighter).
[Archon, Travelcat]
Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Target Painter Republic Fleet Target Painter Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I Capital Remote Armor Repairer I Capital Remote Armor Repairer I Drone Link Augmentor II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Einherji x10
Each Archon webs another two other Archons. I'm not familiar enough with webbing mechanics to know the specifics for how this would work, but I imaging two webs would speed up the align considerably. |
Anthar Thebess
755
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Posted - 2014.10.04 06:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Athryn Bellee wrote:Rroff wrote:Align time can be worked around but while I can see the rise of slowcat type carrier roams after this jump range thing I doubt it will be archons or einherji (which are a terrible choice of fighter). [Archon, Travelcat] Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II Republic Fleet Target Painter Republic Fleet Target Painter Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I Capital Remote Armor Repairer I Capital Remote Armor Repairer I Drone Link Augmentor II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Einherji x10 Each Archon webs another two other Archons. I'm not familiar enough with webbing mechanics to know the specifics for how this would work, but I imaging two webs would speed up the align considerably.
Yes we are talking about the tactics , fighters will be probably different on each carrier to do omni damage. Those are carriers.
They will carry all possible modules on them to refit . Those drone mods in med where only to point abuse of the fighters - as thanks to this mods they will travel at speed 5121 m/s
So they will able to chew all small targets. Dictors / hac / battleships ... even some ceptors will be to slow to run from this ships.
You can easily do the same for dreadnoughts. But for them you have to Siege to do proper damage.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1430
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Posted - 2014.10.04 07:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
is it a bad sign that you dont even need tank mods to put up a decent tank? |
Anthar Thebess
755
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Posted - 2014.10.04 10:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well you replace the dda with tank mods if needed.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
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Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
23
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Posted - 2014.10.04 11:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
A nidhoggur would do it better I believe |
elitatwo
Congregatio
330
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Posted - 2014.10.04 12:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
....which again make the Chimera the worst ever carrier in EVE.. signature |
Anthar Thebess
755
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Posted - 2014.10.04 13:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Belinda HwaFang wrote:A nidhoggur would do it better I believe Dont remember if niddy have energy transport range bonus . This is mandartory for slowcat fleet to regain cap. Remember that in massive fleet EHP is more important than dps. Also people have those ships and skills for them. Even if some other carrier is better ,it just will take time to train a new one , and isk for skills .... For 20%more dps? Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2428
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Posted - 2014.10.06 08:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Ships & Modules. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
333
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Posted - 2014.10.06 10:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nidhoggurs will be the way2go, accompanied by Chimeras.
It's kinda simple - Lowslots for dps and agility, midslots for tank. Combined with the Rep-Bonus-Amount of the Nids and the massive resistance-profile of the Chimeras, you're looking at a beastly setup.
Throw in a few Lokis and Golems for Webs and Paints. Reships en masse are traveling with you inside the Carrier's Maintenance Bays.
Pretty much unstoppable in LowSec, and with good Loki Numbers, even aligning relatively fast.
With refits available you can also easily alternate between Warpspeed, Damage and Agility, depending on wether you web people into warp or not. The possibilities are endless.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
500
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Posted - 2014.10.06 11:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like your thinking about this OP, but there's a few issues to consider:
1. I'm wagering you haven't actually checked the markets for Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator modules or Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II rigs. Exorbitant price aside, there are generally so few of them on the market to be had at any given time that you wouldn't even be able to equip a single fleet. The rigs could probably be invented/built by the fleet's operators, but the Accelerator modules are limited by BPC drops so you can't really increase their availability. This means using lower tier modules and slowing down your warp speed considerably.
2. As for align times, webs will work just like they do for freighters, but be careful trying this in losec unless your entire fleet is in the same corp. A bunch of suspect-flagged carriers roaming gate to gate in losec would attract the attention of, well, pretty much everyone.
3. Your slowcats will have only base recharge and no resist mods aside from a DCU. Given the nature of gate travel, it wouldn't necessarily be that hard to tackle a stray carrier on a gate (didn't warp all the way there and had to slowboat half a km or so after the rest of the fleet jumped), and stray carriers with your build would die horribly quickly.
I think you're on the right bath, but I also think you're dedicating too much in fitting to just warp speed. I'd say maybe 2-3 warp speed mods, then use the slots you opened up for cap, resists, and agility. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
109
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Posted - 2014.10.06 11:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
not sure how this changes anything. rather then a fleet of carriers sitting 13ly away as a single cyno ship scouts out to drop them on you they now have to go gate to gate so you can see them coming.
so the change hasn't made them stronger all its done is make them easier to see.
I have see a lot of post that talk about how carriers can avoid gate camps ect but this is something they have always been able to do. The point of the change was not to make capitals more vulnerable but to make them slower to move around. |
Anthar Thebess
758
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well one of the issues with power projections where and still are NCPL slowcats or CFC boots. I am just pointing that they will be still doing very well after this change . Cyno jamers will no longer work.
CCP should also limit the concept of slowcat / boot fleet.
Modules / rigs? Those where just examples. You can get the same using mix of implants/ t1 Rigs and modules. You will do it cheaper - using this setup i boosted warp speed almost to level of a destroyer. Probably those ships don't have to warp so fast to be still faster than battleships.
Solving the issue that sits in slowcat fleet is very simple. Reduce the amount of repairs you can get from remote assistance modules , while boosting amount that you get while in triage.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
333
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:not sure how this changes anything. rather then a fleet of carriers sitting 13ly away as a single cyno ship scouts out to drop them on you they now have to go gate to gate so you can see them coming.
so the change hasn't made them stronger all its done is make them easier to see.
I have see a lot of post that talk about how carriers can avoid gate camps ect but this is something they have always been able to do. The point of the change was not to make capitals more vulnerable but to make them slower to move around.
This doesn't really make them slower to move around, only if you aim for big distances. What this patch however DOES change is that you can now roam with carriers. You can bring them anywhere. Of course, you could have brought them anywhere already, but you would have needed a cyno in place - a shiney beacon that tells everyone in system that 'something' is coming in. You can now move your carriers without everyone knowing it by looking at the overview.
You'd be surprised by how many things slip through intel channels.
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Anthar Thebess
758
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thats the point. Carriers need to have limit of their remote assistance abilities without the triage applied. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
109
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
the problem with that is the more you limit that it just hits the little guy harder where as the larger groups will just bring more the more prominent issue is the fact that they can use sub cap weapons to defend themselves w/o sub cap support. get rid of there ability to effectively use drones (maybe give them some form of fighter bomber use to compensate) and they will need to have subcaps in fleet that can be removed b4 reps land. |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
333
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Also, protip: It's not the slowcats that will make this patch hilarious. It's the supercarriers. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Belinda HwaFang wrote:A nidhoggur would do it better I believe
A Nid can be brought to cruiser warp speed and BS agility without sacrificing much tank or damage, if you put implants into the equation you can reach regular frig warp speeds even. |
Anthar Thebess
758
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Try fly in bigger fleets. Triaged carrier = dead carrier.
Mostly because it cannot receive any remote reps until he will end its triage.
Now in slowcat fleet if you want to try and check if you have enough firepower to brake enemy fleet tank YOU HAVE to shoot 1 ship.
If you are shooting 1 carrier then this is your dps against enemy reps (2x Capital rep per carriers in fleet) Assuming that you have only 100 carriers against you this is :
99*2* 9,600 /30 (30s cycle). This is long cycle, but target that you are shooting will have over 1 million EHP, so there is plenty time. So enemy fleet can rep itself around 63000 armor/shield points per second, BEFORE considering resistances.
So in order to brake tank you need to do more than 63000 dps.
Remember that usual slowcats fleets have over 200 carriers.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Anthar Thebess
758
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Belinda HwaFang wrote:A nidhoggur would do it better I believe A Nid can be brought to cruiser warp speed and BS agility without sacrificing much tank or damage, if you put implants into the equation you can reach regular frig warp speeds even.
Thanathos and nidhoggur cannot compete against archon or chimera slowcat fleets, because they lack bonus to range of energy transfers.
Something that is mandatory in those fleets, because without exchanging cap with other carriers you will run out of cap. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
333
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Elsa Hayes wrote:Belinda HwaFang wrote:A nidhoggur would do it better I believe A Nid can be brought to cruiser warp speed and BS agility without sacrificing much tank or damage, if you put implants into the equation you can reach regular frig warp speeds even. Thanathos and nidhoggur cannot compete against archon or chimera slowcat fleets, because they lack bonus to range of energy transfers. Something that is mandatory in those fleets, because without exchanging cap with other carriers you will run out of cap.
Have you heard of our Lord and Saviour, Pantheon?
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Anthar Thebess
758
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Posted - 2014.10.06 12:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
We talk about usability.
Blobs have usually archons , so they will use this ships. No new skills , no new hulls etc , no skilling up, etc.
Point is, that this patch just needs this change , in order to not fall into another n+1
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp The Bastion
333
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Posted - 2014.10.06 13:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:We talk about usability.
Blobs have usually archons , so they will use this ships. No new skills , no new hulls etc , no skilling up, etc.
Point is, that this patch just needs this change , in order to not fall into another n+1
The switch from a functioning carrier over to another one is hilariously small. Especially if you don't do Triage. |
Anthar Thebess
758
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Posted - 2014.10.06 13:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't say that it is hard.
I only state that not only to jump drives but also changes to carriers are needed. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
500
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Posted - 2014.10.06 13:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Thats the point. Carriers need to have limit of their remote assistance abilities without the triage applied. This is true completely independent of the perceived power projection issues that CCP is trying to fix. I have always found it rather imbalanced that a dreadnaught needs to have it's siege module active in order to properly function, but a carrier can function just as well, if not better, without a triage module active.
The fix is simple:
1. Boost the triage module bonus to remote rep amount to match the siege module bonus to damage output. 2. Nerf capital reps so that carriers with an active triage module running rep just as well as they do now.
Carriers are like Ishtars and pre-Oceaneus Crows: they can do too many things at once, with the same fit, without having to make sacrifices. Crows have already been hit by the nerfbat, and Ishtars are at least on CCP's radars. I'm hoping that carriers won't be far behind. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
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