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Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2014.10.07 22:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Just with everything else, CCP says either go all in with a group and get stupid rich... or live off bread crumbs that aren't worth anything. The Prospect is nothing more than an illusion. Aside from renter ISK and moon goo there are 2 levels of pve... mining missioning in empire is the low level, but it will all be about the same reward over time... and mining/ratting in null. a little more ISK but it is all relatively equal for time spent.. and little at that. Per character of course. If you are multiboxing (clear viloation of CCP's own EULA) then obviously more ISK. |
Charax Bouclier
Silvershield Universal
138
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Posted - 2014.10.08 02:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:To put some sense into this...
Minerals are used for building 90% of the stuff out there.
If the prices of minerals goes up, the prices of everything built with them goes up in the long run.
If the prices of minerals go down, the prices of everything built with them goes down.
Miners who whine about low income only see the numbers and are unaware of the fact that they earn pretty much always the same value relative to everything else.
Pushing up the number pushes up prices. At first they might think they earn more, but in the end they will whine again, because everything costs more too.
Perhaps your conclusions might be true if a miner also uses all of his income to purchase player created goods. However, there are other things to spend ISK on (PLEX, characters, wardecs, office rent blah blah blah), where you are comparing your relative revenue streams against players deriving income from other sources (say missions for example). So, higher ore prices should benefit the miner overall. |
Xeator
soldiers.fi
58
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Posted - 2014.10.08 03:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lowsec mining needs to be REALLY REALLY lucrative to attract miners.
Its not, so it doesnt. Every now and then some new guy pokes into lowsec and gets popped by locals or rats or whatever. Then they go back to highsec mining and never return.
Income from mining in lowsec really needs to be crazy good. Miners will never go there because they get blown up, they are already having a hard time with CODE so why risk it even more? Exactly.
Crazy good income means someone will want to mine it. If not the highsec miners then the locals. No matter who, but if there were people mining in lowsec it would also be a positive thing for pirates. Lots of juicy targets waiting to be killed. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10692
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Posted - 2014.10.08 07:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
Torneach Structor wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
Ever read a book? Those were proper paragraphs in the OP. No, they weren't. Screen != Book.
Not even remotely comparable, superficial scrub.
Charax Bouclier wrote:Perhaps your conclusions might be true if a miner also uses all of his income to purchase player created goods. However, there are other things to spend ISK on (PLEX, characters, wardecs, office rent blah blah blah), where you are comparing your relative revenue streams against players deriving income from other sources (say missions for example). So, higher ore prices should benefit the miner overall. "Overall". There are more things to spend for which his purchasing power always stays the same, than not. Besides ... your points are randomly chosen and too general. (wardecs, really lol) And, increasing the isk/hr would only make PLEX prices go higher.
Besides all that, your argument is none. For a miner to earn more, everything else automatically gets more expensive too.
It doesn't change anything I said in my post.
There is no "overall benefit" from higher ore prices. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Dave Stark
7037
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Posted - 2014.10.08 14:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
0wl wrote:Dave Stark wrote:0wl wrote:Dave Stark wrote:so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?
yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july. I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally. so you want a prospect with the yield of a hulk? which is even more unbalanced. At what stage in the thread or original post did I mention anything about changing the ship? I'm pretty sure I said it was fine the way it was. The point of the original post is about the risk vs reward balance low-sec mining has over high-sec, with the perefectly capable ship, the Prospect.
since you can't make low sec less risky, you want more reward, which would only be achieved by giving the prospect the yield of a hulk.
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Snuse
Sofakroken Mineralutvinning AS
10
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Posted - 2014.10.08 14:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
0wl wrote:The gameplay is there, but the numbers are wrong in my opinion, this is a bit sad, because its back to high sec mining I go ...
The numbers have always been wrong. I think they are just to afraid of how it will affect the economy if lowsec activities had rewards scale with risk. |
Dave Stark
7039
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Posted - 2014.10.08 15:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Snuse wrote:0wl wrote:The gameplay is there, but the numbers are wrong in my opinion, this is a bit sad, because its back to high sec mining I go ... The numbers have always been wrong. I think they are just to afraid of how it will affect the economy if lowsec activities had rewards scale with risk.
or, y'know... ccp can't do **** about the income of mining since your income is from selling rocks to other players and the game is built upon a player driven economy. |
Zimmy Zeta
Lisa Needs Braces.
47923
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Posted - 2014.10.08 17:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xeator wrote:Lowsec mining needs to be REALLY REALLY lucrative to attract miners.
Its not, so it doesnt. Every now and then some new guy pokes into lowsec and gets popped by locals or rats or whatever. Then they go back to highsec mining and never return.
Income from mining in lowsec really needs to be crazy good. Miners will never go there because they get blown up, they are already having a hard time with CODE so why risk it even more? Exactly.
Crazy good income means someone will want to mine it. If not the highsec miners then the locals. No matter who, but if there were people mining in lowsec it would also be a positive thing for pirates. Lots of juicy targets waiting to be killed.
An easy start would be to improve the NPC stations in low and add laboratories/manufacturing lines to most of them. If manufacturing was more feasible in low, mining in the same system would be much more interesting.
I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
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MsArj
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.10.08 17:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Prospect should get some benefit, or atleast it should be worthwhile.
Done just the same as the OP and it feels kinda gimped. |
Trixie Lawless
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
77
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Posted - 2014.10.08 17:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
Torneach Structor wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
Ever read a book? Those were proper paragraphs in the OP.
She.... Probably has...... ....read books.... But.... They were all...... ....like....this.....
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Josef Djugashvilis
2578
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Posted - 2014.10.08 19:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
Trixie Lawless wrote:Torneach Structor wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
Ever read a book? Those were proper paragraphs in the OP. She.... Probably has...... ....read books.... But.... They were all...... ....like....this.....
Where they by Jeffrey Archer ? This is not a signature. |
Dave Stark
7039
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Posted - 2014.10.08 19:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
MsArj wrote:Prospect should get some benefit, or atleast it should be worthwhile.
Done just the same as the OP and it feels kinda gimped.
that's probably because you can't give a cov-ops frigate the yield of a hulk and expect it to be balanced. |
Trixie Lawless
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
78
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Posted - 2014.10.08 19:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Trixie Lawless wrote:Torneach Structor wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
Ever read a book? Those were proper paragraphs in the OP. She.... Probably has...... ....read books.... But.... They were all...... ....like....this..... Where they by Jeffrey Archer ?
Captain Kirk I think.
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MsArj
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.10.08 20:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Why does everyone yell out and compare the prospect with a Hulk? Like the OP is telling about a experience in eve thats totally true, it feels lackluster, like why bother taking the prospect to low when you feel the same "profit" in high....
Its NOT about giving the prospect the same efficiency as Hulk but giving it a buff, so it actually feels like its worthwhile diving threw hostile space to get something done.
Giving miners a chance to experience low/null in a miner hull should be something everything wants, more targets, more fun for all parts and in the end, everyones happy!
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Torneach Structor
Emrys Enterprises
142
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Posted - 2014.10.08 21:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Torneach Structor wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
Ever read a book? Those were proper paragraphs in the OP. No, they weren't. Screen != Book. Not even remotely comparable, superficial scrub. Writing is writing, no matter what medium is used. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
130
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Posted - 2014.10.08 22:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
My biggest turnoff with mining was when they changed the sound of my mining lasers. |
Nevil Oscillator
10
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Posted - 2014.10.08 22:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
I think the economic fact is that someone somewhere is able to mine high price minerals for the price they are.
I can't
Does that mean the price must go up or they need to be easier to mine ?
No, Peace is your own frozen corpse sent back to you in a contract with some garbage.
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Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10717
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Posted - 2014.10.08 22:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Torneach Structor wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Torneach Structor wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Dear 0wl,
Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.
Ever read a book? Those were proper paragraphs in the OP. No, they weren't. Screen != Book. Not even remotely comparable, superficial scrub. Writing is writing, no matter what medium is used. Except that I am talking about the reading part ... ... and you don't really understand what I am talking about anyway ................ ....... so I apologise for assuming you'd know. :)
*spreads sparkles of wisdom and knowledge above your head* (:
Maybe a pink shtick to? :D That would suit you sooooo weeeeelllll..... :D
Anyhow... lowsec mining.
If that's really so dangerous as people wanna make it look like ... ... I should give it a try. Somehow I doubt that there's much danger behind it ... ... as long as attention is being paid. ^_^ I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10717
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 23:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:My biggest turnoff with mining was when they changed the sound of my mining lasers. I mined two times ... three times actually in my five years of playing.
The best part was definitely the sound of the mining laser.
It was mesmerising ..................
.............bbzzzzrrrrrreeeeooooowwwww........... (doesn't sound right with my squeeky voice :/) I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Nevil Oscillator
10
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Posted - 2014.10.08 23:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: I mined two times ... three times actually in my five years of playing. /i]
Clearly why everyone is bowed to your superior knowledge. Peace is your own frozen corpse sent back to you in a contract with some garbage.
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ElSuerte Diego
Los Perros Hermanos
7
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote: An easy start would be to improve the NPC stations in low and add laboratories/manufacturing lines to most of them. If manufacturing was more feasible in low, mining in the same system would be much more interesting.
They took out slots in Crius.
I'm part way through the process of moving my production and research from a 0.5 system to a 0.3 in order to take advantage of the lower system index. I've already got an intensive refining array set up in low sec, so it makes sense to drop the minerals off into a low sec station, rather then hauling it back to a high sec station.
It doesn't solve the problem of mining in low sec. The last time I ran the numbers, it was cheaper to get isogen and zydrine by trading for them at Jita with high sec ores because I'd lose too many ships and I couldn't get an equivalent yield per hour. That was pre Prospect though. |
Creamdream
Unlimited Potential
13
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
0wl wrote:Too some degree, I'm a masochist. I Enjoy mining. What I don't like is afk mining, it's boring, uneventful and not fun, apart from the odd laugh you get when someones untanked Mackinaw gets ganked next to you. Recently I aquired the skills to pilot a Prospect as a little side project to have a go at mining anomalies with in low sec, great I thought, tasty Crokite and Orche to be had!
The actual gameplay is enjoyable, mining, avoiding rats, gate camps and pirates, awesome! It feels like I'm risking something and its engaging ... Then you get your yield ... oh, well that's disappointing I thought ... this **** isn't even worth the risk, I might aswell afk mine in high sec with a Procurer for the same profit. The gameplay is there, but the numbers are wrong in my opinion, this is a bit sad, because its back to high sec mining I go ... I think the basic problem is the yields that come from the more valuable ores, it may be more valuable, but you just get a lot less of it for the size. But still, it's enjoyable to some degree.
Go back to school. You need to work on your IQ. |
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2014.10.09 10:44:00 -
[53] - Quote
I've said it once and I'll say it again. To make lowsec a wild west boomtown in a matter of seconds you need to put a mineral there that only exists there.
Remove 95% of Nocxium or better yet, Mexallon, from asteroids and spawn roids in lowsec that contain tons of nocxium or mexallon and I cannot stress this enough; tons.
This would make lowsec a risk / reward worthy place worth visiting. My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.
There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10740
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 10:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mycool Jahksn wrote:I've said it once and I'll say it again. To make lowsec a wild west boomtown in a matter of seconds you need to put a mineral there that only exists there.
Remove 95% of Nocxium or better yet, Mexallon, from asteroids and spawn roids in lowsec that contain tons of nocxium or mexallon and I cannot stress this enough; tons.
This would make lowsec a risk / reward worthy place worth visiting. And who will farm it? The pirates who live there.
And they *will* defend it.
Your idea doesn't really work, but I'm sure they'd love to have it implemented.
Sometimes I think people do not realise that anyone can do anything in this game and that pirates aren't stuck at being pirates ... ... like miners who seem to be stuck at being miners ... ... but also can have mining alts.
Reminds me of the stupid argument of "who will mine for you 'PvPers' when we miners leave the game?" ... ... and the correction answer is, of course: Our alts. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2014.10.09 10:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Mycool Jahksn wrote:I've said it once and I'll say it again. To make lowsec a wild west boomtown in a matter of seconds you need to put a mineral there that only exists there.
Remove 95% of Nocxium or better yet, Mexallon, from asteroids and spawn roids in lowsec that contain tons of nocxium or mexallon and I cannot stress this enough; tons.
This would make lowsec a risk / reward worthy place worth visiting. And who will farm it? The pirates who live there. And they *will* defend it. Your idea doesn't really work, but I'm sure they'd love to have it implemented. Sometimes I think people do not realise that anyone can do anything in this game and that pirates aren't stuck at being pirates ... ... like miners who seem to be stuck at being miners ... ... but also can have mining alts. Reminds me of the stupid argument of "who will mine for you 'PvPers' when we miners leave the game?" ... ... and the correction answer is, of course: Our alts.
Why are you so anti social? An argument isn't stupid just because you don't agree with it. Your alts could never keep up with the massive mineral flow that carebears bring in.
Anyway, of course but it would also bring risk taking high sec dudes into low sec. You are already in low sec, high sec carebears are not because it's not worth it.
My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.
There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10740
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 11:03:00 -
[56] - Quote
I call it stupid, because it's stupid. It shows that the person hasn't though it through at all.
Furthermore, it will not bring carebears to lowsec ... ... because carebears do not want to go to lowsec.
It will rather bring all the big entities to lowsec ... ... because it allows them to bank in bigtime and have more control ... ... and make the smaller pirate entities defend every belt they can.
No amount of "buffing lowsec" ever changed the fact that carebears are carebears.
Your idea does not work as you think it would. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2014.10.09 11:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:I call it stupid, because it's stupid. It shows that the person hasn't though it through at all.
Furthermore, it will not bring carebears to lowsec ... ... because carebears do not want to go to lowsec.
It will rather bring all the big entities to lowsec ... ... because it allows them to bank in bigtime and have more control ... ... and make the smaller pirate entities defend every belt they can.
No amount of "buffing lowsec" ever changed the fact that carebears are carebears.
Your idea does not work as you think it would.
And it does not because you say so? Lol.
My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.
There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10741
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Posted - 2014.10.09 11:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mycool Jahksn wrote:And it does not because you say so? Lol.
You should start off by reading the OP. And you think your idea would work because you say so?
No ... it does not work, because it's disconnected from actual reality.
It does not work, because it completely leaves out the fact that carebears ... ... do not go to lowsec, because they can lose their ships ... ... and can not mine afk there without definitely losing them.
It also ignores the fact that giving lowsec a unique mineral ... ... will make all the people who live there already ... ... defend it as much as they can.
People will lock down access from highsec to lowsec everywhere.
Carebears will just whine even more ... ... because they can not access this mineral.
It's not me who is anti-social here. It's you who simply refuses to accept that his idea will not work the way it's thought out. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10741
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 11:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
But hey, in case you still refuse to accept actual reality ... ... please elaborate on WHY you believe it would work the way you think it would.
And of course HOW it would work out.
Because that part now misses, after my short explanation why it won't work out.
Thanks. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Nevil Oscillator
10
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Posted - 2014.10.09 11:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
The OP is referring to some kind of ninja mining barge activity I can't be certain why this is not profitable but my guess would be because mining corps can do it better. I can understand the appearance that high price minerals are designed to be a new level you can reach by going into low sec but as far as I can tell, it doesn't work like that. Ore is a market commodity, it's only really worth something when someone clicks buy or place order.
Ore unless you want it yourself Beware of Pyerites
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