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Ashwind Houssa
Heart of Pyerite Imperial Outlaws.
12
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Posted - 2014.10.16 02:56:00 -
[91] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote: The only thing they should make easier if anything is allowing Novices to be run by poorly skilled poorly fit frigs but, tbh FW should not be the starter game for new characters. Go and explore the safe aspects of Eve and build a nest egg for 6 months before you try to take on much more experience pilots.
The next fix they should put in is nerf the bonus given for LP from the tier levels.
I agree with a lot of what you said, except the above.
I think FW is a great place for new bros. Sure soloing as a newbie will just get you nothing more than a string of lossmails, as my killboard can attest, but it is also the fastest way to learn the mechanics of PvP, and even a 3 day old toon in a Rifter has a place in a plexing fleet.
FW doesn't have to be an elitist club, and in truth the more a corp gives new bros a place, the stronger our faction becomes. They don't need to be pro PvP, but they can certainly be a helpful contributor to a small gang.
As for the tier bonus, I joined Amarr at tier 1. 8 months later we are getting ready to put the minmatar there. They got fat and lazy off their LP, lets get ours.
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Ashwind Houssa
Calibrated Chaos
17
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Posted - 2014.10.16 02:56:25 -
[92] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote: The only thing they should make easier if anything is allowing Novices to be run by poorly skilled poorly fit frigs but, tbh FW should not be the starter game for new characters. Go and explore the safe aspects of Eve and build a nest egg for 6 months before you try to take on much more experience pilots.
The next fix they should put in is nerf the bonus given for LP from the tier levels.
I agree with a lot of what you said, except the above.
I think FW is a great place for new bros. Sure soloing as a newbie will just get you nothing more than a string of lossmails, as my killboard can attest, but it is also the fastest way to learn the mechanics of PvP, and even a 3 day old toon in a Rifter has a place in a plexing fleet.
FW doesn't have to be an elitist club, and in truth the more a corp gives new bros a place, the stronger our faction becomes. They don't need to be pro PvP, but they can certainly be a helpful contributor to a small gang.
As for the tier bonus, I joined Amarr at tier 1. 8 months later we are getting ready to put the minmatar there. They got fat and lazy off their LP, lets get ours.
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Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
320
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 15:54:00 -
[93] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:Moglarr wrote:I do think there are oddities with the plex rats, and their behavior. I also think their tank is a little too strong, correct me if I'm wrong (because I have given up on trying) but a condor with t1 fittings can't break a plex rat because I believe you need between 75-100 DPS, it gets maybe 60 with rockets and I brun through a lot of ammo in a breacher doing around 75. I also think the initial point of alpha strike damage being undervalued inside a plex holds good value as a topic of discussion. The unrealistic speed of the rats is just annoying, they don't need it because they don't have any DPS to get into range to try and apply. Their reps are wonky because they almost fully repair in between cycles of slower firing weapons. They also encourage people plexing to use a specific type of fit because they are just plain annoying to deal with.
I love that small gang group plexing is a thing now. I love that the dude who insists on bringing a cruiser to a frigate fleet has a use. I hate how long it takes to kill these respawning rats sometimes. I hate that sometimes the rat just skates away because someone had their MWD on (at least that seems to be something I've noticed happen). If the goal was to stop "farmers" I agree that stabbed ships should not be able to run the timer (I understand that people can fit their ships however, they like, but these stabbed dudes farming plexes make it difficult to maintain a stable system without forcing pilots to waste time dplexing a system. It only encourages the use of alt dplexers) I also like the sound of some solutions but am on the fence. I like the idea of the dueling rats. I don't like how hard that would make dplexing. Also, anyone who seriously considers removing LP from plexing in FW is an idiot.
Ultimately if they rat is meant to check activity, and the idea of sticking with random spawn times wins, I don't see why they need such a high tank. They also should not auto attack targets, because :drones:. A few volleys from any weapon system should be enough of a "yeah I'm at the keyboard, go away, I am waiting for a fight".
If the rat is meant to make sure you're "fit for a fight" then it should have some tank, and not keep spawning. If it a DPS check, you either pass or your fail, there is no need to keep rechecking - that is just annoying. You then have the timer on a plex not run when an unfit , stabbed, cloaky or by whatever other metric we arbitrarily deem a fit "unworthy" of being a pvp fit is alone in range of the plex. Wrong, wrong and wrong. I'd accept a reduction to buffer but not an alteration to the dps check (active tank) of the NPC. The respawn stops farmers from taking down the first rat and then leaving the plex to be run by the alt in the 100k unfit frig with stabs. A reduction to the HP values of the hull and either shield (if armor tanked) or armor (if shield tanked) would reduce the time wasted on NPC spawns in the plex's as long as you are fit to break them. The respawn rate could do with streching out a little but I would just widen the variation so that sometimes you will be lucky and only get 5 spawns and sometimes you'll get 7. The only thing they should make easier if anything is allowing Novices to be run by poorly skilled poorly fit frigs but, tbh FW should not be the starter game for new characters. Go and explore the safe aspects of Eve and build a nest egg for 6 months before you try to take on much more experience pilots. The reason a lot of new players came to FW was the isk from LP due to ease of farming. The next fix they should put in is nerf the bonus given for LP from the tier levels.
Generally I'm just confused over the necessity of a recurring dps check; I think having a tank check with a deadlier npc that spawns once or twice would be better than the current meta since it would force people to actually fit for combat rather than just lazily fly around and shoot the npc, and leave in your stabbed blaster atron when somebody lands on you since you don't know what dscan is. I get that it makes sense for us to be engaged somehow in what we're doing in the plex, but I DON'T think the npc should bar us from flying certain ships or ship sizes that are properly kitted out for pvp.
All this brouhaha over the years about stabbed farming frigates can be solved pretty easily if you force THEM to take damage. The balance would be that you'd only have 2 NPC spawns; one at the beginning of the timer and 1 at the end. They would reset with rollbacks at a given time, and they would have adequate tracking, range, and damage to cause trouble for a frigate that doesn't fit tank and a prop mod. They'd be a bit easier to take down, and you wouldn't have such a long timer disparity between defensive and offensive plexes. THAT'S what I'd like to see happen specifically. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
435
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 15:54:48 -
[94] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:Moglarr wrote:I do think there are oddities with the plex rats, and their behavior. I also think their tank is a little too strong, correct me if I'm wrong (because I have given up on trying) but a condor with t1 fittings can't break a plex rat because I believe you need between 75-100 DPS, it gets maybe 60 with rockets and I brun through a lot of ammo in a breacher doing around 75. I also think the initial point of alpha strike damage being undervalued inside a plex holds good value as a topic of discussion. The unrealistic speed of the rats is just annoying, they don't need it because they don't have any DPS to get into range to try and apply. Their reps are wonky because they almost fully repair in between cycles of slower firing weapons. They also encourage people plexing to use a specific type of fit because they are just plain annoying to deal with.
I love that small gang group plexing is a thing now. I love that the dude who insists on bringing a cruiser to a frigate fleet has a use. I hate how long it takes to kill these respawning rats sometimes. I hate that sometimes the rat just skates away because someone had their MWD on (at least that seems to be something I've noticed happen). If the goal was to stop "farmers" I agree that stabbed ships should not be able to run the timer (I understand that people can fit their ships however, they like, but these stabbed dudes farming plexes make it difficult to maintain a stable system without forcing pilots to waste time dplexing a system. It only encourages the use of alt dplexers) I also like the sound of some solutions but am on the fence. I like the idea of the dueling rats. I don't like how hard that would make dplexing. Also, anyone who seriously considers removing LP from plexing in FW is an idiot.
Ultimately if they rat is meant to check activity, and the idea of sticking with random spawn times wins, I don't see why they need such a high tank. They also should not auto attack targets, because :drones:. A few volleys from any weapon system should be enough of a "yeah I'm at the keyboard, go away, I am waiting for a fight".
If the rat is meant to make sure you're "fit for a fight" then it should have some tank, and not keep spawning. If it a DPS check, you either pass or your fail, there is no need to keep rechecking - that is just annoying. You then have the timer on a plex not run when an unfit , stabbed, cloaky or by whatever other metric we arbitrarily deem a fit "unworthy" of being a pvp fit is alone in range of the plex. Wrong, wrong and wrong. I'd accept a reduction to buffer but not an alteration to the dps check (active tank) of the NPC. The respawn stops farmers from taking down the first rat and then leaving the plex to be run by the alt in the 100k unfit frig with stabs. A reduction to the HP values of the hull and either shield (if armor tanked) or armor (if shield tanked) would reduce the time wasted on NPC spawns in the plex's as long as you are fit to break them. The respawn rate could do with streching out a little but I would just widen the variation so that sometimes you will be lucky and only get 5 spawns and sometimes you'll get 7. The only thing they should make easier if anything is allowing Novices to be run by poorly skilled poorly fit frigs but, tbh FW should not be the starter game for new characters. Go and explore the safe aspects of Eve and build a nest egg for 6 months before you try to take on much more experience pilots. The reason a lot of new players came to FW was the isk from LP due to ease of farming. The next fix they should put in is nerf the bonus given for LP from the tier levels.
Generally I'm just confused over the necessity of a recurring dps check; I think having a tank check with a deadlier npc that spawns once or twice would be better than the current meta since it would force people to actually fit for combat rather than just lazily fly around and shoot the npc, and leave in your stabbed blaster atron when somebody lands on you since you don't know what dscan is. I get that it makes sense for us to be engaged somehow in what we're doing in the plex, but I DON'T think the npc should bar us from flying certain ships or ship sizes that are properly kitted out for pvp.
All this brouhaha over the years about stabbed farming frigates can be solved pretty easily if you force THEM to take damage. The balance would be that you'd only have 2 NPC spawns; one at the beginning of the timer and 1 at the end. They would reset with rollbacks at a given time, and they would have adequate tracking, range, and damage to cause trouble for a frigate that doesn't fit tank and a prop mod. They'd be a bit easier to take down, and you wouldn't have such a long timer disparity between defensive and offensive plexes. THAT'S what I'd like to see happen specifically. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
320
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 15:56:00 -
[95] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:You all have many good points, but fail to see how much these changes have improved system sieges. How we DO have to ship hulls and doctrines to strategic systems nearby to escalate fighting. How we adapt to what another group is bringing. How plexes decide when we force a push or sit on a defendable small or novice. Imo, oplexing is fine and if you think you don't have good anti-frig platforms, you probably never seen a RLML Caracal, a hungry dragoon, a dual rep cruiser with even small guns. Adapt or die. RLML caracal is one of my favorite cruisers, and I've run all of those that you're talking about; i just have bad luck with blobs and camps. Fit crafting is kind of my thing. While I can admit I'm in the wrong about wanting to dial things back for what's necessary to solo run offensive plexes, I DO believe my concerns about supply and distance are warranted; logistically it makes far less sense to be running cruisers for long-distances operations for a number of reasons, not the least of which armor repair in hostile space for buffer fits. You're a small POS away from armor repair bliss. Or a mobile depot anchored in a safe spot. Or at most 6 jumps from a non-FW system (Esesier). A significant majority of systems are within 3 jumps of a non-FW system. Plus, "supply and distance" add geography to the map. And that's not a bad thing. Mobile depot to swap for self-repair is actually a pretty good idea; didn't think of that. Thanks! |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
435
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 15:56:40 -
[96] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:You all have many good points, but fail to see how much these changes have improved system sieges. How we DO have to ship hulls and doctrines to strategic systems nearby to escalate fighting. How we adapt to what another group is bringing. How plexes decide when we force a push or sit on a defendable small or novice. Imo, oplexing is fine and if you think you don't have good anti-frig platforms, you probably never seen a RLML Caracal, a hungry dragoon, a dual rep cruiser with even small guns. Adapt or die. RLML caracal is one of my favorite cruisers, and I've run all of those that you're talking about; i just have bad luck with blobs and camps. Fit crafting is kind of my thing. While I can admit I'm in the wrong about wanting to dial things back for what's necessary to solo run offensive plexes, I DO believe my concerns about supply and distance are warranted; logistically it makes far less sense to be running cruisers for long-distances operations for a number of reasons, not the least of which armor repair in hostile space for buffer fits. You're a small POS away from armor repair bliss. Or a mobile depot anchored in a safe spot. Or at most 6 jumps from a non-FW system (Esesier). A significant majority of systems are within 3 jumps of a non-FW system. Plus, "supply and distance" add geography to the map. And that's not a bad thing. Mobile depot to swap for self-repair is actually a pretty good idea; didn't think of that. Thanks! |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1149
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 17:05:00 -
[97] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Generally I'm just confused
What you are arguing for is what we have had before, pretty much word for word. Even you posted yesterday and admitted it was a bad idea iirc.
I guess the Farming Asssociation of Isk Leaches was unhappy with your performance as their lobbyist and have sent you back to redouble your efforts.
Catherine Laartii wrote:didn't think of that.
This would be a good catchphrase for you. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1207
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 17:05:48 -
[98] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Generally I'm just confused
What you are arguing for is what we have had before, pretty much word for word. Even you posted yesterday and admitted it was a bad idea iirc.
I guess the Farming Asssociation of Isk Leaches was unhappy with your performance as their lobbyist and have sent you back to redouble your efforts.
Catherine Laartii wrote:didn't think of that.
This would be a good catchphrase for you. |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
126
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 18:55:00 -
[99] - Quote
Does Bacon pushing any of this in to CCP's cranium? |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
128
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 18:55:54 -
[100] - Quote
Does Bacon pushing any of this in to CCP's cranium? |
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Nightfox BloodRaven
State Protectorate Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 05:03:55 -
[101] - Quote
the only thing in o plex that needs fixing is the odd behaviour of the rats that go like 4k in a BC.. otherwise its fine.
D-plex on the other hand need to be fixed.. fuken hoards of 1 day year old fw alts in empty ships ... something is not right about that. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2667
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 05:40:30 -
[102] - Quote
Crimson Draufgange wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:simple idea: Get rid of the absurd reps on the npcs and replace them with an adequate amount of buffer tank, as well as bumping up their dps to a useful level. This will allow for more ships to do offensive plexing for mediums and larges, as well as not giving the defenders too much of an advantage. Or, just get rid of NPC's entirely. Instead, have a minimum ship req for a complex timer to tick. Novice needs 1 ship, small needs 2 and so on. To be honest, I don't like my idea, but I don't like yours either. No rats for dps check means warp core ... Taylor Swift sang it best: Farmers gonna farm farm farm! |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1321
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 05:55:55 -
[103] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Does Bacon pushing any of this in to CCP's cranium?
What you need to realize is: A few CCP peoples have toons sneaking about in FW - They don't need Mirana Bacons input.
So while Bacon might be doing a lot to promote ideas to them - they won't really listen as they have already formed their own opinions.
Docked since 2009.
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Gunnar Ward
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 18:24:02 -
[104] - Quote
Let me just put the "prevent stabs cloaks from running the button to rest".
If this system was put in place, the thread checking loadouts would need to check every high slot, and every low slot on every ship trying to activate the gate/around the button. Even though it seems contrary, a ship with no cloaks/stabs actually constitutes MORE overhead than a ship with a cloak or stab, since ostensibly if the thread found one or the other it could exit the loop early.
For one ship that isn't that bad. For large scale fleets, that adds an exponential number of checks because the check would need to occur each time the gate was activated/button had a population. Higher class ships (with more slots) would cause even MORE overhead. Most fleets don't have stabbed/cloaked ships so each ship would need the thread run over it's entire loadout (since no early exit would typically be found).
It adds too much overhead to the system for not much gain. Class of ship is an easy check. DPS check is a database tweak on armor rep rates. Iterating through entire loadouts... not so much.
So while I'd love this to be a mechanic to stop farmers right off the bat, it's not a feasible use of system resources when easier checks can accomplish *nearly* the same thing. |
Arla Sarain
172
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 19:11:14 -
[105] - Quote
Make it so you have to lock up the button in order to run the timer, and it fires 100% ECMs in certain intervals. Stabbed ships would increase the capture time cos locking it would take a while with sub 100 scan res. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1207
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 21:36:56 -
[106] - Quote
Gunnar Ward wrote:Let me just put the "prevent stabs cloaks from running the button" idea to rest.
If this system was put in place, the thread checking loadouts would need to check every high slot, and every low slot on every ship trying to activate the gate/around the button. Even though it seems contrary, a ship with no cloaks/stabs actually constitutes MORE overhead than a ship with a cloak or stab, since ostensibly if the thread found one or the other it could exit the loop early.
For one ship that isn't that bad. For large scale fleets, that adds an exponential number of checks because the check would need to occur each time the gate was activated/button had a population. Higher class ships (with more slots) would cause even MORE overhead. Most fleets don't have stabbed/cloaked ships so each ship would need the thread run over it's entire loadout (since no early exit would typically be found).
It adds too much overhead to the system for not much gain. Class of ship is an easy check. DPS check is a database tweak on armor rep rates. Iterating through entire loadouts... not so much.
So while I'd love this to be a mechanic to stop farmers right off the bat, it's not a feasible use of system resources when easier checks can accomplish *nearly* the same thing.
A ship would just need a flag 'can run timer' that is true or false each time a stab or a cloak was fitted or all removed. A true are false check already happens each time a gate is activated anyway.
Checks already happen on the button too since once you lose a ship your pod no longer runs the timer. |
Gunnar Ward
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 22:14:51 -
[107] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
A ship would just need a flag 'can run timer' that is true or false each time a stab or a cloak was fitted or all removed. A true are false check already happens each time a gate is activated anyway.
Checks already happen on the button too since once you lose a ship your pod no longer runs the timer.
The check for pods would be a meta check wouldn't it? "If player ship = pod" do not run button similar to "If player ship = destroyer, do not let player in Novice".. we're back to more efficient meta checks based on entity (ship) class.
In regards to the flag, I understand why that may seem faster but here's the issue:
There's still inherent overhead associated with this since it's on a per module basis. Now instead of doing the check while applicable (on activation of the gate) the check that needs to set the flag needs to happen on any high/low slot a player fits/unfits unless the flag is already set. So each time a player adds/drops a mod the check needs to happen. If we wait till the player closes the fitting screen than we're back to the full iteration over modules to set/unset the flag.
This also needs to happen across all ships currently being fit across the server since the game has no way of knowing which ships are going into FW space at any point in time (since this is a flag that needs to be set prior to gate activation).
We have the flag set, using more resources to set than before. We have an additional check at the gate/button to check this flag, although the gate check is now faster.
So -
1.) To set the flag we need to check all ships currently subject to fitting anytime a high or low slot mod is fit, server wide, on most if not all ship classes. We can save some overhead by not checking ships who have a current flag set when a module is FIT.
2.) We then need to check the flag when a ship enters a plex - this makes the gate check faster, but we've already spent the initial overhead in step 1, and probably used many more resources since we're now checking all ships across the server that are being fitted instead of just ships who are trying to enter a plex. (This is because you can't code for player spontaneity)
We could argue that maybe having the initial check take place on the first gate activation after a refit would free up some resources. I'm sure the fitting database has a change date column on it so logic could be developed to say "set the flag on the first activation after a fitting change, then just check the flag". That way we're only checking ships trying to get into gates, and then only doing an expensive check once per fitting, falling back to the flag after the initial activation. If a player swaps out a mod that flag gets reset and the expensive check happens on the next gate activation.
Even better we could potentially skip checking on every module if we place the logic related to setting the flag on the cloack/stab modules themselves. If a module can send a message to the ship telling it to set it's flag to N we reduce the overhead only to ships that have a stab/cloak module fit, which is approaching what you described. The module would also have to alert the ship when it's been removed in this scenario, which would get tricky... we'd need an onUnfit() or onRemove() event. This approach assumes that logic is even possible in this engine.
What I'm trying to get at is that even setting a flag is expensive because you're placing eligibility on the micro module level and not something more meta level like ship class. Even if overhead is not occurring at a particular point in time, those resources still get spent, and it's probably not worth the CPU cycles to go the micro route instead of using an easier check such as ship class. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1207
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 22:29:23 -
[108] - Quote
There would obviously be no checking all the mods on activation of the gate. Suggesting that type of implementation is the only one, or that its one at all is silly.
A single flag would be added to the ship id on adding or removing the module, either while fitting in station or from a mobile depot. Dont make me say this over and over again. Frankly i cannot be bothered to read a massive babble post each time i say there is a very robust and easy way of doing this that already has parallel implementations for other attributes.
Technical rebuttals are best left to CCP rather than people like you or i who clearly are not equipped to make that kind of call. |
Plato Forko
Forko Nanorobotics
107
|
Posted - 2014.12.08 23:13:45 -
[109] - Quote
double the rats in o-plex site with each tier level increase. eg. at T1, 1 rat spawns at once, at T4, four rats spawn at once. soloers and farmers would still be able to d-plex and o-plex at lower tiers but in higher tiers it would prevent farmer toons from having any impact on warzone control. seems more easily doable than creating new mechanisms to address cloaks and WCS specifically, which are only a problem in the first place because farmers are abusing them when the tier is high.
There's nothin' like skating away from a fight with the hull on fire, some mods burned out and a cargohold full of loot.
See my terribad blog for stories.
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Gunnar Ward
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 01:59:33 -
[110] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:There would obviously be no checking all the mods on activation of the gate. Suggesting that type of implementation is the only one, or that its one at all is silly.
A single flag would be added to the ship id on adding or removing the module, either while fitting in station or from a mobile depot. Dont make me say this over and over again. Frankly i cannot be bothered to read a massive babble post each time i say there is a very robust and easy way of doing this that already has parallel implementations for other attributes.
Technical rebuttals are best left to CCP rather than people like you or i who clearly are not equipped to make that kind of call.
You're right. We can theory craft all we want (I find it fun, you seem not to) but unless we know how the engine handles these things it's all just BS conjecture anyway.
I do think you're being a tad aggro. My post was well reasoned. It was not silly or babbling. The fact that you use those terms leads me to believe that you didn't read it, or if you did, didn't have any valid counter arguments aside from your professed "very robust way". I gave multiple implementations and cited reasons (given my knowledge of database interactions - which is my profession) on why it, although a good idea, is probably too expensive to implement. I'll just chalk up the over aggressive response to your having to constantly rebuff shitposters.
Not everybody is against you - you can be more civil. |
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Gunnar Ward
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 02:16:31 -
[111] - Quote
double post |
Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion The Bloc
31
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 02:36:56 -
[112] - Quote
Squatdog wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:simple idea: Get rid of the absurd reps on the npcs and replace them with an adequate amount of buffer tank, as well as bumping up their dps to a useful level. This will allow for more ships to do offensive plexing for mediums and larges, as well as not giving the defenders too much of an advantage. No. The NPCs are there to stop offensive plexes being chain-farmed by week-old stabbed, cloaky farming alts. That's what defensive plexes are for. Stabbed drone boat. Not week old alts, but it still works. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1209
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 07:51:38 -
[113] - Quote
Gunnar Ward wrote: Not everybody is against you - you can be more civil.
BTW - I'd be more than happy to take this offline.
Your post was not well reasoned. It was tedious techno babble that had no basis in reality. Leave cost benefit analysis to CCP rather than posting unfounded and ill/non informed drivel about implementation costs lol.
Im not trying to be abrasive, but you objections and reasoning have no basis in reality and offer no practical value to this discussion
BTW, im not against you. Not everyone that disagrees with you is your enemy, |
Mr Duffo
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
65
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 08:45:44 -
[114] - Quote
Theres nothing wrong with o-plexin. I can do novice to medium in worm fast.
and isk is relevenat as everyone in fw is rich. Even in t1 you can make so alot isk as market prices are so damn high. |
Arla Sarain
173
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 09:32:00 -
[115] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote:double the rats in o-plex site with each tier level increase. eg. at T1, 1 rat spawns at once, at T4, four rats spawn at once. soloers and farmers would still be able to d-plex and o-plex at lower tiers but in higher tiers it would prevent farmer toons from having any impact on warzone control. seems more easily doable than creating new mechanisms to address cloaks and WCS specifically, which are only a problem in the first place because farmers are abusing them when the tier is high. More rats with higher tiers reduce the chances of an underdog faction counterattack and secures. |
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Space-Brewery-Association 24eme Legion Etrangere
151
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 17:22:51 -
[116] - Quote
They just need to nerf the LP payout bonus on higher tiers. Then let things settle and see if another tinker is needed.
It's ridiculous that a FW Militia pilot can D-plex in high tier with a 175% or 225% bonus. Of course there are a load of flip-flop farmers jumping from the Low Tier Militia over to the High Yier Militia.
They'll run FW missions if they're really hungry but, at a lower risk they can just d-plex in a 100k ship and gain more LP than trying to offensive plex for the enemy in a larger sized complex. ..and they can do it afk coz it doesn't matter if an alt with no SP and a ship that cost less than 1 min of farming time dies.
This is wrong.
There should be absolutely no attachment, at all, between the FW Mitilia Tier level and earning or spending LP.
- There should be no bonus to pay outs of any kind from the Tier.
- There should be something offered as an alternative incentive
- but it should be attached to a reduction in cost of things
- or bonus's to running stuff (bonus exploration sites, bonus to POS fuel usage, bonus to cyno fuel usage, bonus to jump fuel usage into system.. whatever).
Crosi Wesdo wrote:[quote=Gunnar Ward]
Im not trying to be abrasive...
He never tries to be....
"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
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Oreb Wing
Windrammers Bohica Empire
50
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Posted - 2014.12.09 19:00:22 -
[117] - Quote
Mac, I am under the impression that the problem is not the amount of the bonus that is the problem, but the means by how difficult it is to achieve high tiers. I dunno about you guys, but Gallente find it pretty hard to even reach tier V without solo SB missioning. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2675
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Posted - 2014.12.09 20:06:26 -
[118] - Quote
Oreb Wing wrote: I dunno about you guys, but Gallente find it pretty hard to even reach tier V .... Working as intended. Staying at lower tiers keeps the leeches out of our LP pool. |
Burtakus
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
29
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Posted - 2014.12.11 20:22:03 -
[119] - Quote
As someone who left FW partially from all of the disposable plex alts ruining the FW experience and now being back after the changes it is infinately better.
Some observations from my time back are: 1. Solo is alive and well. My kb can attest to that 2. The rats are working as they should. My favorite ship, a 150 rail comet, can only do novice and small plexs and i am perfectly ok with that. If you want the lp/time advantage of the med and large plexs then ship up. That concept sounds very reasonable. I cap a lot of med and large plexs flying solo but i ship up accordingly and think that this is appropriate.
3.I still come across stabbed farmers. Usually a destroyer in a small but I see a couple per day instead of dozens. 4. I am seeing a ton of new toons less than a month old or so and this is very encouraging. Especially since they are not being brought up learning that stabbed afk plexing to male isk is what FW is about.
Could things be better, yes but the recent changes are a drastic improvement from where they were. The idea floated of 2 opposing rats in a plex is a good on to avert dplex farming for one. |
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