Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10872
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 07:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
Nice troll thread if it is one. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Nevil Oscillator
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 08:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Nice troll thread if it is one.
If you don't know, how is anybody else meant to ? Always remember that mining is a big fat yorkie eating working mans environment. Not for Girls As for Distribution |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
493
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 13:25:00 -
[63] - Quote
Maintaining a lock requires a high energy particle beam to scan and track the target. This beam is of sufficient amplitude and composition as to disrupt the quantum sheathing that the cloak must generated evenly around the ship in order to render it invisible.
It is all very logical. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Nevil Oscillator
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 13:33:00 -
[64] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:
It is all very logical.
I bet you can't tell me if the explanation or the code was written first. Always remember that mining is a big fat yorkie eating working mans environment. Not for Girls As for Distribution |
Iain Cariaba
513
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 16:19:00 -
[65] - Quote
What I find absolutely ******* hilarious about this thread is this:
At the top of page 2, OP posted a comment that showed he was merely confused about the meaning of a yellow box vs. a red box. He thought a yellow box meant they were still locking on, and red box meant they had acquired lock.
OP, yellow box is they are locked on, red box means they are using an offensive module, i.e. firing weapons or using warp disruptor.
Two page of people bickering about how locking in this game supposedly works, and one person besides me saw OP's confusion, though the other person who noticed was rather rude about it.
FYI, only the rude one answered OP's original question before now, the rest of you seem to just be posting to see your own avatars. Of all of you, only Solecist can get away with that particular excuse. Disclaimer: My opinion does not necessarily reflect that of my corp or alliance. My opinion is my own, and if you don't like, that is your problem. |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
493
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 16:30:00 -
[66] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:BoBoZoBo wrote:
It is all very logical.
I bet you can't tell me if the explanation or the code was written first.
Does it really matter - in here or the real world. As long as the explanation let's you sleep at night. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Arla Sarain
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 16:32:00 -
[67] - Quote
Hades Dark wrote:So why and how does targeting someone prevent cloak? Really I do not understand this concept at all. A targeting system pinpoints a mass using visual, radar, sonar. It no way sends anything that disturbs any equipment but yet when your targeted in EVE you can't use cloak due to what? Also I should be able to cloak regardless if there is someone tracking me or not because unless something is preventing me from using that module then really how can they? I don't think the principle hinges on visual detection as much as you make it sound like.
I think the purpose of cloak is to prevent you from being locked by making enemy sensors think you are not there. But once you get locked it would pointless to try that because the location of the mass has already been pinpointed. And even if you did various logical prediction procedures could have been carried out in order to try and locate the mass again.
|
Nevil Oscillator
17
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 16:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:[quote=Nevil Oscillator]
Does it really matter - in here or the real world. As long as the explanation let's you sleep at night.
No, unless you are debugging a game mechanism, then it might tell you something.
Always remember that mining is a big fat yorkie eating working mans environment. Not for Girls As for Distribution |
|
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1733
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 17:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
Hades Dark wrote:Please read and understand before posting, targeting and being locked are 2 different things yes? OK so how does targeting someone prevent someone from cloaking?
No. "Targeting" someone and "locking" them mean the same thing.
Having someone targeted or locked means you selected them on your overview, then clicked the "target lock" button, or ctrl+clicked them, or any other ways of initiating lock. Then you waited the locking countdown, which is shorter the bigger the ship being targeted is. After that, the target shows up in your selectable "locked" targets, and you are able to activate weapons or other modules on it.
At the point the target appears it your target selection icons, on its client it sees a "yellow box" around you, indicating that you are locking, or targeting, it. There is no feedback for the target before this point. This is also the point where it ceases to be able to cloak. It could have still cloaked during the locking countdown.
Note that the "red box" only appears when an offensive module (weapons, some sort of disruption, etc) is active.
Why does acquiring a target lock on someone disable their cloak?
- Lore answer: targeting someone involves active detection of their position and signature, sending a strong signal at an already known position/ship to get all externally available data about it. While a ship is being "painted" by such a strong signal, its cloaking device cannot function effectively, forcing the ship to remain targetable by everyone else as well.
- Real answer: because of game balance. If locking did not disable cloaking: gate camps would not be possible; kiting/sniping ships that fit cloaks would have a permanent get-out-of-jail-free card; fleet fights would turn into a series of targeting stuff that immediately cloaks so it is not shot; etc.
ISD LackOfFaith Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums. |
|
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10900
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 17:39:00 -
[70] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:... which is shorter the bigger the signature radius of the ship being targeted is.
At the point the target appears in your target selection icons, on its client it sees a "yellow box" around you, indicating that you are locking already successfully have locked, or targeting targeted it. Fixed that for you.
To clarify.
The size of the ship has no actual connection with the amount of time needed for a lock. What matters is the signature radius of the ship, which of course increases with a ship's size, but also through other ways ... like microwarpdrives and target painters.
And I corrected the part about yellow boxing for language reasons.
You're welcome.
Now go spread 10 Likes to get rid of your sins. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
|
Miyammato Musashi
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
91
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 17:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:*snip* Why does acquiring a target lock on someone disable their cloak?
- Lore answer: targeting someone involves active detection of their position and signature, sending a strong signal at an already known position/ship to get all externally available data about it. While a ship is being "painted" by such a strong signal, its cloaking device cannot function effectively, forcing the ship to remain targetable by everyone else as well.
- Real answer: because of game balance. If locking did not disable cloaking: gate camps would not be possible; kiting/sniping ships that fit cloaks would have a permanent get-out-of-jail-free card; fleet fights would turn into a series of targeting stuff that immediately cloaks so it is not shot; etc.
This is an awesome answer. I liked the lore part. TIL. Good work ISD! (wait... what did I just say?!?!) I am a meat popsicle.-á |
|
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1736
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 18:26:00 -
[72] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:... which is shorter the bigger the signature radius of the ship being targeted is.
At the point the target appears in your target selection icons, on its client it sees a "yellow box" around you, indicating that you are locking already successfully have locked, or targeting targeted it. Fixed that for you. To clarify. The size of the ship has no actual connection with the amount of time needed for a lock. What matters is the signature radius of the ship, which of course increases with a ship's size, but also through other ways ... like microwarpdrives and target painters. And I corrected the part about yellow boxing for language reasons. You're welcome. Now go spread 10 Likes to get rid of your sins. "Signature radius" is most easily understood as "how big your ship is" for someone who has not dealt with the mechanic before. It indeed does not match the actual size of the ship, and can be bloated by stuff unrelated to size (shields, MWDs, etc), but for someone without extensive experience with Eve's sometimes convoluted mechanics (as OP appears to be), "my ship is bigger, therefore it is locked and tracked more easily" makes more sense than referring to a vague "signature radius" value.
And yes, you're right, my wording for the yellow box was a bit bad. I'll fix it. Thanks. ISD LackOfFaith Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums. |
|
Jess Tanner
Hard Knocks Inc.
141
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 19:53:00 -
[73] - Quote
OP should feel bad at failed troll... Go with Bob, keep Him always in your heart. He is your Sword, Shield, and the Knife in your back.
|
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
321
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 20:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
Not necessarily a troll, I think OP simply thought that yellow box would appear as soon as you start a locking sequence, instead of it only appearing on victims OV once the lock has been confirmed.
Tbh. I don't think that OP is the only one in this thread who has never noticed or tested when that yellow box actually does appear on your screen.
To OP: On your screen it might appear as if you can't cloak while being targeted but in reality you can, you just can't know if the locking count is in progress until it's too late.
|
Heather Austrene
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 02:58:00 -
[75] - Quote
Trying to expect this thing to work according to science is sort of funny, when is Eve is a universe where there is no gravity, friction in space, and all kinds of other blatant disregard of Newton. I suppose the servers either can't handle newtonian mechanics, or they think it would make the gameplay too difficult. So just assume it is an alternate universe with different laws of physics and learn to cope with them. |
Curious Onlooker
LE YOLO LE SWAG LE 9GAG YOLOSWAG SWAGGER CORP YOLO
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 03:08:00 -
[76] - Quote
Hades Dark wrote:So why and how does targeting someone prevent cloak? Really I do not understand this concept at all. A targeting system pinpoints a mass using visual, radar, sonar. It no way sends anything that disturbs any equipment but yet when your targeted in EVE you can't use cloak due to what? Also I should be able to cloak regardless if there is someone tracking me or not because unless something is preventing me from using that module then really how can they?
There's an incredibly simple answer to this, one I'm actually kindof surprised that you lacked the ability to come up with yourself:
The cloaking device does not make your ship truly invisible, it simply masks most details about your ship and location to nearby and far away capsuleers. Once another ship locks onto you with their targeting mechanisms, their ship computers are keeping detailed information on your ship (heading, velocity, and other pertinent information), and so it is very reasonable to believe that should you try to cloak, it would be ineffective as the focused targetting system would know exactly where to look for you, and so your cloak wouldn't hide you. It is also reasonable that any ship targetting you would broadcast your position to other ships nearby, so that they too could instantly discern your position. In a day and age as far advanced as the eve universe is, instantaneous 3D coordinate relaying would be old technology.
As for why the cloak doesn't actually activate, that's a simple matter of game mechanics. Allowing your to activate your cloak with no effect would be far too confusing for many players, would not be of meaningful benefit to the game, and would further complicate things if the enemy lost their lost on you. Would the cloak then conceal your ship, preventing you from warping off, or would you then need to disable it, providing that you realized you werent truly cloaked all along? |
Nevil Oscillator
18
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 10:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
Heather Austrene wrote: Eve is a universe where there is no gravity, friction in space, and all kinds of other blatant disregard of Newton.
I think I may have noticed some friction out there.
Always remember that mining is a big fat yorkie eating working mans environment. Not for Girls As for Distribution |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1311
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 16:29:00 -
[78] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:... which is shorter the bigger the signature radius of the ship being targeted is.
At the point the target appears in your target selection icons, on its client it sees a "yellow box" around you, indicating that you are locking already successfully have locked, or targeting targeted it. Fixed that for you. To clarify. The size of the ship has no actual connection with the amount of time needed for a lock. What matters is the signature radius of the ship, which of course increases with a ship's size, but also through other ways ... like microwarpdrives and target painters. And I corrected the part about yellow boxing for language reasons. You're welcome. Now go spread 10 Likes to get rid of your sins.
Scan res. Use your more advanced skill at english to add a mention of it because insta lockers don't put sebo and targetting rigs in tehir fitting in the hope that it will bloat the target's sig radius. You'll get a like for your effort. It even gives you a good reason to post once more. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4701
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 21:37:00 -
[79] - Quote
Hades Dark wrote:So why and how does targeting someone prevent cloak? Really I do not understand this concept at all. A targeting system pinpoints a mass using visual, radar, sonar. It no way sends anything that disturbs any equipment but yet when your targeted in EVE you can't use cloak due to what? Also I should be able to cloak regardless if there is someone tracking me or not because unless something is preventing me from using that module then really how can they?
Let me respond.
Why with the size of the ships we fly around, it takes us till we are closer then 2 km before we suddenly spot that cloaked ship of our bow. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar |
Nevil Oscillator
18
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 21:49:00 -
[80] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:
Why with the size of the ships we fly around, it takes us till we are closer then 2 km before we suddenly spot that cloaked ship of our bow.
Because they are cloaked ? Always remember that mining is a big fat yorkie eating working mans environment. Not for Girls As for Distribution |
|
Opertone
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
308
|
Posted - 2014.10.14 22:31:00 -
[81] - Quote
Simple logic.
Because the cloaking module activates, but enemy ship sensor has already identified your location, and acquired your signature. Masking signature with cloaking device becomes unfavorable, because enemy computer will detect the emission phase shift and readjust.
Because *KING targeting laser lights your spaceship up. You shine and glow and reflect/absorb that beam, which gives out your location.
If you could first break enemy's lock with counter emissions, cloaking may have some positive effect. Unless you can warp cloaked, enemy will still remember your coordinates and locate your ship with close contact bump.
|
Nevil Oscillator
18
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 02:14:00 -
[82] - Quote
It's because of the light frequency, that's why you would never be able to detect Ultra Marines. Always remember that mining is a big fat yorkie eating working mans environment. Not for Girls As for Distribution |
Brylan Grey
Scope Works
60
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 06:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
I would imagine locking to cause more than just guns and modules to follow the target. Instead, it would be more like projecting some sort of emission onto the target that interferes with warp and allows for superior tracking of targets in space. This would go along the lines of targeting not actually being based on visual acquire meant of the target but rather some sort of signature.
Example, instead if having my computer follow a ship visually, emote something that is easy for me to follow onto the ship. Now suppose a side effect of this radiation, chemical, whatever, is that it interferes with cloaking the ship. |
Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic The Big Dirty
68
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 10:25:00 -
[84] - Quote
It prevents cloaking because it must.
As an example let's take your logic and pretend you need a new module that 'damps' cloaks. In a PVP engagement with a covert ship in which the aggressor does not have said module fitted, the covert ship would simply be able to cloak up and warp off as soon as the pilot realizes the fight isn't going quite as planned "because targeting shouldn't prevent cloak". GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
|
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
837
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 18:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:It's a Jovian Miracle.
This.
"Remember remember the 4th of November!" Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online. |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
627
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 12:28:00 -
[86] - Quote
TL;DR def Jovians. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
7020
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 12:32:00 -
[87] - Quote
Is the OP still here or is he cloaked? "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Alex Sorensen
Dynamite Mining Division
28
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 13:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
OP if you want a logical answer as to how the physics behind it work, you won't get one. EVE isn't a space simulation, it's a video game, like all other movies/games based in space, it takes many liberties with the physics aspect of it.
You might as well be asking why there are explosions when killing ships, why there's sound, why ships move like they're travelling through air rather than space, among many other things.
To answer your question and any other future questions:
Any time see something like that, a wizard did it. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
7021
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 13:18:00 -
[89] - Quote
Alex Sorensen wrote: 1. You might as well be asking why there are explosions when killing ships 2. Why there's sound 3. Why ships move like they're travelling through air rather than space
1. When a pressurised container full of combustible material (Your ship's hull and its oxygen rich environment) is punctured by a high energy heat beam, accelerated particle, super-dense alloy projectile or high explosive warhead in a vaccum physics tell us this will explode outwards, and all combustible material will be consumed by the release of energy in a sudden flare.
2. Some of the sounds are provided by your Pod's sensor relays in order to facilitate your clone's understanding of its surroundings. Other sounds pass through the air inside your ship (and pod-fluid) to your ears when forces strike the hull of your ship.
3. Actually, they travel as if they are moving through liquid. This is a side-effect of the computer controlled guidance systems. If vectored thrust and inertial-less motion (such as accerating from 0kmph to 10,000kmph almost instantly) were to be enacted, your crew, as well as most likely your clone, would at best be unable to fly your ship at all, and at worst crushed into a fine paste. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
|
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10988
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 13:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
Almost ....
Number three is because of the warp drive/core thingy creating artificial drag. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. - You are my content, my shiny content - you make me haaappy, when skies are greeeeyyy - you'll never know dear, how much I loooooove you - don't you take my content away! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |