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Cattegirn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.10.13 00:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
The way the rules used to work in empire, if you shot someone who had a criminal flag that was ok, but he and anyone in his corporation (or was it alliance?) could shoot *back* at you for 15 minutes.
Is that still how it works? It wasn't clear in the wiki, except that you were allowed to shoot suspects and criminals. |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
204
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Posted - 2014.10.13 01:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Now theft etc makes you a 'suspect'. Everyone can shoot a suspect, when you do the suspect is free to fire back for 15 min including pod kills.
Most suspects are flagging intentionally, much like the past.
Neutral reps etc now get suspect flags, making them freely engageable. |
Xercodo
Vector Galactic The Big Dirty
3800
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Posted - 2014.10.13 02:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are no fleet, corp, or alliance based aggression mechanics now unless a war is involved.
Suspect can be shot by anyone, and be podded. No one can help him aside from using logi and the logi pilot himself becomes a suspect.
Criminals can be shot and podded by anyone and CONCORD will help.
Shooting someone, even if legal, will incur a "Limited Engagement" timer that allows that person to shoot and pod you. Likewise anyone that tries to logi you will become a suspect again.
The limited engagement timer is what is sued for duels and the logi suspect thing is to try and prevent neutral logi. The Drake is a Lie |
Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
219
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Posted - 2014.10.13 02:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Be prepared for 8 logistics alts to come out of warp within 30 seconds. Hey guys. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4252
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Posted - 2014.10.13 03:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4459736#post4459736 |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4696
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Posted - 2014.10.13 08:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cattegirn wrote:The way the rules used to work in empire, if you shot someone who had a criminal flag this was permitted without AI intervention (gate guns, concord). In turn he and anyone in his corporation (or was it alliance?) could shoot *back* at you for 15 minutes.
Is that still how it works? It wasn't clear in the wiki, except that you were allowed to shoot suspects and criminals.
A. ONLY he can shoot back at you, nobody else (not his corp nor alliance mates, nor anybody else). This is because of Crimewatch 2.0 and limited engagement timers etc.
Want to know everything about the new aggro mechanics: Griefwatch 2.0 dev blog is what you want.
p.s. Suspect aggro behaviour was NEVER to the point that a corp mate could help. That was how canflipping worked in the old system.
Old:
YOu flip can > Go flashy to target's corp, they can shoot you.
New
You flip can > You go suspect and anybody in EVE can shoot you. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1707
|
Posted - 2014.10.13 11:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cattegirn wrote:The way the rules used to work in empire, if you shot someone who had a criminal flag this was permitted without AI intervention (gate guns, concord). In turn he and anyone in his corporation (or was it alliance?) could shoot *back* at you for 15 minutes.
Is that still how it works? It wasn't clear in the wiki, except that you were allowed to shoot suspects and criminals. It does not now and has not ever worked that way. |
Cattegirn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.10.13 20:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah I was thinking of the old system with regard to can/wreck theft. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5754
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Posted - 2014.10.13 20:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Relivant. =]I[= |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
184
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Posted - 2014.10.14 01:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: This should be a word instead of a typo. Relivant!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5756
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Posted - 2014.10.14 02:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
OH MY AN I INSTEAD OF AN E !
=]I[= |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1707
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Posted - 2014.10.14 02:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Anyway, what you should actually expect is the person you're shooting to have gang links, both neutral and non-neutral battle-reps and for his ship to suddenly turn into a Vindicator or Bhaalgorn seconds after you start shooting it.
You know, normal stuff. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2843
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Posted - 2014.10.14 14:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Seriously Ralph, relivant to you to :) Invalid signature format |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1486
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Posted - 2014.10.14 18:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cattegirn wrote:The way the rules used to work in empire, if you shot someone who had a criminal flag this was permitted without AI intervention (gate guns, concord). In turn he and anyone in his corporation (or was it alliance?) could shoot *back* at you for 15 minutes.
Is that still how it works? It wasn't clear in the wiki, except that you were allowed to shoot suspects and criminals. Just to clarify. You can shoot a suspect for 15 minutes until his suspect timer winds down, but he can easily refresh said timer.
Also, if you shoot at him within that time he can shoot back and continue shooting indefinately, not to the expiration of that 15 minute suspect timer. As others mentioned, a new 'limited engagement' timer kicks in for 5(?) minutes, refreshed as long as one of you is still doing an agressive act on the other.
If you are shooting a suspect on a station, expect a hot-swap of that ship from something you can kill, to a pwn-boat. Or as others mention, logi to show up and rep the target.
If you are shooting someone elsewhere, also watch for ORCA's nearby. Provided the suspect doesn't have a 1 minute agression timer (Smodag Ongalot nerf), he can re-ship in space using the Orca to a pwn boat. So if you are fighting someone in hisec and an Orca lands, its perhaps time to consider de-agressing for the GTFO when the target stops pointing/shooting you to wait out his 1 minute and board a new ship.
But honestly, even though our guys use links and sometimes logi with the aforementioned asshattery, a lot of folks who open fire would have a good chance at a kill if they just fit their ships properly for pvp. (i.e. neuts, scram, webs). The reality is many don't understand a pve pwnboat does not a good pvp ship make.
That is a better lesson here IMHO than just 'dont shoot, you will die'. You can die walking your doggie.
Fit your ship properly for pvp, and give it a go, watching out for the things mentioned (and hopefully having enough buffer/tank to survive a 1-minute de-agress and gate-jump/dock).
F
Would you like to know more? |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10956
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Posted - 2014.10.14 19:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yes, five minutes. Way too short, if I may add.
Also... locking a ship that drops out of the orca prevents people from entering, afair... I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Cattegirn
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2014.10.15 20:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:[quote=Cattegirn] Also, if you shoot at him within that time he can shoot back and continue shooting indefinately, not to the expiration of that 15 minute suspect timer. As others mentioned, a new 'limited engagement' timer kicks in for 5(?) minutes, refreshed as long as one of you is still doing an agressive act on the other.
Ohhh... very nice post. Ty
What's the potential to exploit the part quoted above? What terminates the "shoot back" permission ultimately? I gather only the expiration of the LE timer, docking, logging off, etc. not having an effect. |
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