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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
15601
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Posted - 2014.10.14 10:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Poor use of killboard links aside, Santo Trafficante will continue to use them efficiently, despite what we try to convince ourselves of in this thread.
He definitely has skill in his use of them.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
LAGL 4 LYF |
ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
766
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Posted - 2014.10.14 10:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Alastair Ormand wrote:Pull range out of smart bombs. Fit long range scram and go to town.
Assuming your still alive... Someone obviously hasnt been on the recieving end of an agressive smartbombing lol
.... is that an innuendo...
No Worries |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1396
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Posted - 2014.10.14 10:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kazekage Dono wrote:So gate camping with smart bombs up untill now seems very very risk averse. Because of no need to lock they will fit loads of warp stabs. And bumping them out of range is not a good idea.
Cause unless you got 50 people to set on all gates they'll just wait out timer and leave. I mean gateguns are joke in the end.
So yeah my question, is there a counter?
HIC Problem solved TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Backyard Pooper
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.10.14 10:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: t1, named and t2 Smartbombs are horribly inefficient, because the only ship they really have a use for is on battleships ....
Confirming smartbombs on cruisers are horribly inefficient! |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10940
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Posted - 2014.10.14 14:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
Backyard Pooper wrote:Solecist Project wrote: t1, named and t2 Smartbombs are horribly inefficient, because the only ship they really have a use for is on battleships ....
Confirming smartbombs on cruisers are horribly inefficient! Hi Jennifer en Marland.
Your link proves my point and your ignorance and cluelessness.
You are free to mention the fitting you need to instapop pods and a shuttle on a cruiser, which proves that they are underpowered.
A destroyer even with a full set of t2 small smartbombs can't even do it.
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Backyard Pooper
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.10.14 15:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Hi Jennifer en Marland. Speaking about cluelessness ... at least we have something in common: a bad memory for names.
Solecist Project wrote:Your link proves my point and your ignorance and cluelessness.
You are free to mention the fitting you need to instapop pods and a shuttle on a cruiser, It's all on my killboard but to safe you the time: 3 large ones kill every pod, 2 large explosive meta ones most, but not all pods. Alternatively 5 medium meta ones but they have less range and can be difficult to handle, thanks to EVE's keyboard code.
Solecist Project wrote: which proves that they are underpowered.
A destroyer even with a full set of t2 small smartbombs can't even do it. Why do you think a destroyer should be able to alpha every pod in its vicinity? |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10942
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Posted - 2014.10.14 15:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Yes I do well remember your main.
Thank you for pointing out the issue and sorry for not looking it up on the killboard myself. on mobile it's a horror.
It needs two or three LARGE smartbombs, which makes for a horrible fitting on a cruiser.
At best one gets 1k alpha out of a horribly overpriced cruiser.
It needs two volleys on destroyers to kill a pod.
You take your kills and ignore that what you need to achieve this is way out of relation to what it actually achieves, compared to the fitting.
We did disco runs, three people in cruisers. The conclusion was that everything below a battleship is completely pointless to use, because of lack of range and alpha.
That's unreasonable for the cost involved.
Using cruisers is unreasonable, because of the low range and the comparatively high fitting costs to get aa subpar alpha from it.
Destroyers are being the closest to actual sense, although not even a full set of t2 smartbombs can pop a pod.
And yes... it should be doable at least with t2.
Smartbombs are the red headed stepchild of all weapon systems and are completely broken either because there is no dedicated ship for them which gives proper bonuses, or because they themselves lack range or alpha.
Alternatively, making AWU affect powergrid needs would actually be very helpfull already.
It might make them reasonable to use on cruisers. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Backyard Pooper
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.10.14 17:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:It needs two or three LARGE smartbombs, which makes for a horrible fitting on a cruiser.
At best one gets 1k alpha out of a horribly overpriced cruiser. 1340 actually with good fitting skills (which this char doesn't have) for 4 large meta and one medium T2 smartbomb. With good fitting skills a Maller with 3 large meta smartbombs and the required fitting foo currently only costs roughly 16.5 mil with nothing in midslots or rigs. The PG rigs that I have to use due to low skills nearly double the costs but that is entirely my own fault and as I don't loose the ship most of the time (the shuttle above was collateral damage btw), I don't really care. Thanks to the RCU rebalance recently these costs went down significantly as I only need one PG rig instead of three now, despite my low skills. In fact, this char is profitable ISK-wise from the bounties I get from killed ganker pods alone.
Solecist Project wrote:We did disco runs, three people in cruisers. The conclusion was that everything below a battleship is completely pointless to use, because of lack of range and alpha.
That's unreasonable for the cost involved. I can't comment on this without knowing what your target was.
Solecist Project wrote:Using cruisers is unreasonable, because of the low range and the comparatively high fitting costs to get aa subpar alpha from it. For some targets it's the right tool, for some it is not. Speaking of choosing the right tool for the job ...
Solecist Project wrote:Destroyers are being the closest to actual sense, although not even a full set of t2 smartbombs can pop a pod.
And yes... it should be doable at least with t2. I'm against this because of how much damage ISK-wise smartbombs can inflict. I was already surprised that one can put so many large smartbombs on a cheap cruiser hull when I was looking for a cheaper alternative for SB battleships and tbh: I think that is also wrong. But that is my opinion, I'm not trying to state it as facts.
Solecist Project wrote:Smartbombs are the red headed stepchild of all weapon systems and are completely broken either because there is no dedicated ship for them which gives proper bonuses, or because they themselves lack range or alpha.
Alternatively, making AWU affect powergrid needs would actually be very helpfull already. I'm not saying that smartbombs are great as they are: especially being able to group them, as it's possible with most other weapon systems, would be really helpful. I even could get behind the AWU idea, but making dirt cheap destroyers being able to alpha pods is, in my opinion, way overpowered.
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2074
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Posted - 2014.10.14 17:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kazekage Dono wrote:So gate camping with smart bombs up untill now seems very very risk averse. Because of no need to lock they will fit loads of warp stabs. And bumping them out of range is not a good idea.
Cause unless you got 50 people to set on all gates they'll just wait out timer and leave. I mean gateguns are joke in the end.
So yeah my question, is there a counter?
There's always a path through a pipebomb.
Basically, take the old nullsec advice, and never warp gate-to-gate, even in lowsec. The pipebombers need to leave an opening for their own guys to get through, and lots of times, they don't even bother with covering all paths in. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10957
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Posted - 2014.10.14 19:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Poor use of killboard links aside, Santo Trafficante will continue to use them efficiently, despite what we try to convince ourselves of in this thread. He definitely has skill in his use of them. The general masses don't use a blackops with billion ISK disco...
... and it's not about efficient use, but about the fact that they are inefficient in relation to fitting requirements and their capabilities.
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
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Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10958
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Posted - 2014.10.14 19:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
@ Backyard pooper (mobile here again, quotes quotes quotes argh)
Low fitting skills. Yes, I was talking about the PG rigs. Now consider the short amount of time one needs to skill even for t2 small ones. It's a weapon system with a low entry barrier!
Skilling Pulse weapons to V is pointless except for t2 large bombs most don't use ... ... and for a 6.5sec RoF with heat.
Smartbombs, when we take skilling time, are a weapons system with a low entry barrier. That makes it a great thing for new players who want to dive all-in!
It makes no sense that a set of t2 can't insta a pod. Instead one has to tank a coercer to tank the sentries long enough for a second blast ... which gets the job done, btw. That, though, doesn't scale well with their low entry requirements!
Cruisers for ganking... disregarding the targets, are really bad. One needs to tank them too, so one gets off enough volleys for it to matter.
And here again in relation ... using a battleship allows to fit enough tank for lots of volleys, but the damage doesn't really scale with it. Consider the cost! That's why I believe that Smartbombs simply are unbalanced.
There is no proper scale among the module sizes, nor in regards to shipsizes.
I haven't looked at the new RCUs... good call! I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Decian Cor
Disconnected. Ineluctable.
183
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Posted - 2014.10.14 20:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Decian Cor wrote:Solecist Project wrote:
and smartbombs themselves are seriously underpowered, because the only ships they're really viable on to use are battleships.
And that makes them horribly inefficient, unless you fit officer type smartbombs ...
Can confirm, smartbombs on battleships are horribly inefficient. EDIT: broken link. fixed. Yes, they are. And links to killboards aren't allowed in GD. I am sure you've invested many, many hours in research into smartbombs and how to put them to proper use ... like I did. t1, named and t2 Smartbombs are horribly inefficient, because the only ship they really have a use for is on battleships ... ... and on these they are ridiculously underpowered for the price of the hull one has to use.
Maybe in terms of the actual module operation they can be rather inefficient with a long cycle time and an AOE of only 5km for a large bomb, but multiple instances such as the one shown above indicate that when used properly they can be quite devastating. Also, they can be quite useful in getting drones off your back in the bigger fights.
If you consistently subscribe to the meta, then sure, you'll probably only find a use for it on a battleship. One could say the same thing about certain ECCM modules that are too powerful for smaller hulls. It really lies upon your shoulders to find new and interesting ways to do things.
But that would require gameplay..
Unfiltered for the masses.
http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie |
Biomass MeNOW
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.10.14 20:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kazekage Dono wrote:
So yeah my question, is there a counter?
Counter is very, VERY easy - and there are several of them.
A - a fleet of your own smartbombing Battleships. As soon as you see the enemy ships on warp-in start spamming those F-keys.
B - 1 sensor boosted heavy dictor = infinate scram point at 20k (been away long time -- not sure if HeavyDic's can fit multiple infinipoints). Well beyond smarty range. If they're not backing up their smarties with guns they're dumbies. Once pointed they're easy pickings for anything that can hit from outside 6km which is... well... pretty much any and everything.
Just play it cagey and point the last ship on the daisy chain. the rest will run rather than attempt to keep it alive. Have a second infinipoint ready to spot the pod and *pop*.
Figure - two to tackle/gank per target at the gate.
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Opertone
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
308
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Posted - 2014.10.14 22:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
Die and sell kill rights to mercenaries. Or someone looking for cheap fun.
Post in various public channels, free smart bombing battleships for hunt (post location)!!! That smart bombing pilot won't be there for too long. |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1156
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Posted - 2014.10.15 06:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
Biomass MeNOW wrote:Kazekage Dono wrote:
So yeah my question, is there a counter?
Counter is very, VERY easy - and there are several of them. B - 1 sensor boosted heavy dictor = infinate scram point at 20k (been away long time -- not sure if HeavyDic's can fit multiple infinipoints).
Infinitpoint disruptor* (not a scram) is about 36km on a hictor 5 pilot with t2 disruptor, and yes, multiple can be fit =) |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
165
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Posted - 2014.10.15 07:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Biomass MeNOW wrote:Kazekage Dono wrote:
So yeah my question, is there a counter?
Counter is very, VERY easy - and there are several of them. B - 1 sensor boosted heavy dictor = infinate scram point at 20k (been away long time -- not sure if HeavyDic's can fit multiple infinipoints). Infinitpoint disruptor* (not a scram) is about 36km on a hictor 5 pilot with t2 disruptor, and yes, multiple can be fit =)
Why would the smartbomber decloak with a HIC on grid/scan/nearby
Lowsec gatecamping in smartbombing ships works like this:
Your sb ship is cloaked on the outgate, in line with the selected ingate, where your cloaky scout sits. Once a target in pod/shuttle/low HP frig warps to the outgate, the sb ship decloaks and engages smartbombs. After target is dead, it cloaks/warps away, order depending on the ship type he uses.
Assuming he also eyes on the other side of the outgate, catching one of these is actually fairly difficult. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
611
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Posted - 2014.10.15 08:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kazekage Dono wrote:Solecist Project wrote:You alone? You can't.
Why do you ask? Well cause it's not very balanced that 1 pilot can well ... be unaffected by 1 other pilot or 2 probably allot more as well. The smartbombs or gatecamping isn't the issue. It's that warp core stabs don't affect smartbombs in any way really.
Feeling trolled.
Smarty BS have no tank. If they aggress you in a ship that can't be 1-shot... bump them until the guns finish them. |
Luwc
Brodozers Inc.
247
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Posted - 2014.10.15 08:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Smartbomb yourself.
or batphone someone who will kill them.
while big pirate groups are usualy blue to each other http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
Santo Trafficante
Snuff Box
24
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Posted - 2014.10.15 10:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
you guys dont understand.... |
Rejuice K
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
14
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Posted - 2014.10.15 10:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
Santo Trafficante wrote:you guys dont understand....
I was about to say, where is santo lol!
Seriusly tho, look his fit up |
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4705
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Posted - 2014.10.15 10:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kazekage Dono wrote:So gate camping with smart bombs up untill now seems very very risk averse. Because of no need to lock they will fit loads of warp stabs. And bumping them out of range is not a good idea.
Cause unless you got 50 people to set on all gates they'll just wait out timer and leave. I mean gateguns are joke in the end.
So yeah my question, is there a counter?
Yeah.
Long range guns.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10965
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 10:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Santo Trafficante wrote:you guys dont understand.... How about you speak a word about this.
One would assume ... I do ... you have a few things to say.
And Hi! Long time no see! Didn't know you switched to t3.
Ewww ... ^_^ I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
1208
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Posted - 2014.10.15 11:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: Wont work because of microjump drives. Come play Crink, over 192 billion in prizes paid out already!
Join the channel 'crink' in game or visit http://crink.corelicorp.net to play. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
837
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Posted - 2014.10.15 18:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
You know, if he is sitting on the gate with smartbombs running, he has aggression and cannot jump until he turns them off. So warp in at 20 with bombers or anything else that applies well and blap him.
How hard is it?
Also, smartbombing gatecampers are gei. Plz, get a life. "Remember remember the 4th of November!" Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online. |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
412
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Posted - 2014.10.16 10:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
Joshua Foiritain wrote:Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote: Wont work because of microjump drives.
Take a HIC with web, scram, infini-point and scan probes (or covops alt). Warp to zero to prevent cloaking, then once he's not going anywhere bring in some DPS. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2488
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Posted - 2014.10.16 13:28:00 -
[56] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ErrorRon
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
166
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Wait until phoebe then make a solo hic fit? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtItWL6GfSM CCP Gargant - -áDev of my heart. |
Myrrax
Apotheosis of Caledvwich Dirt Nap Squad.
0
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Posted - 2014.10.16 20:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Kazekage Dono wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Yes. Off-center boomarks. Also works for bubbles. That would be running away from the problem and is not a counter. I'm talking about killing them. How could one take them out? Try a Heavy Interdictor you will also need a few dps ships. If you are worried about the smartbombs fit the dps ships as snipers and warp in at range. Using the HIC as heavy tackle. Edit; Grrrr Remiel
Cant bubble in Low Sec which is where most of this occurs. Unless you script it. |
Steve Spooner
Blastphemy. The Bastion
161
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Posted - 2014.10.16 23:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Hop in ishtar, drop sentries, plink away at 2000 KM off gate. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
463
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Posted - 2014.10.17 14:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: The general masses don't use a blackops with billion ISK disco...
... and it's not about efficient use, but about the fact that they are inefficient in relation to fitting requirements and their capabilities.
Killing the invicible travelers is the most Fun i 've had in a long time . Getting the pods too is the best part of it! I think i am the only one that knows how to do this efficiently in eve. Although once the cormack smarties rised to 4b a pop, i decided to go over on a rack of T2's
Solecist Project wrote: Skilling Pulse weapons to V is pointless except for t2 large bombs most don't use ... ... and for a 6.5sec RoF with heat.
I agree with you, smartbombs are unbalanced. Here is a link to a decent balance proposal in the FI&D section. With the T1 and T2 Tiercide, most, if not all ships, have gotten increased HP also. Next to that, no uniform ranges across the differant damage types, exept on T2, do makes Pulse Weapons V worth it ;)
Brylan Grey wrote: Skill? No thanks. Tactics? What?
I would disagree a bit. In blobs, its does requirs baiting, coordinating and lots of organisation with a lillte bit of luck! Solo it requirs an insane amount of skill and tricks to catch the normal fitted frigs! (some rl ductape, a mili sec cloak ect ect)
As with the new warp speed changes and the T1 and T2 shiptiercide, cycling the smartbombs doesnt kill the firgats anymore (pods yes, untanked firgs maybe just, everything fitted and more than 1200 (4sb) hp before resist > you wont kill). So basicly the only moment you will be able to apply damage anymore is that 1 second timeframe window just before a ship lands on a gate. (You cant activate in range of a gate and when a ship is on gate, hes out of smartbomb range)
But no worries! Im willing to teach for 1b isk per session (1 session will do)!
King Fu Hostile wrote: Lowsec gatecamping in smartbombing ships works like this:
Your sb ship is cloaked on the outgate, in line with the selected ingate, where your cloaky scout sits. Once a target in pod/shuttle/low HP frig warps to the outgate, the sb ship decloaks and engages smartbombs. After target is dead, it cloaks/warps away, order depending on the ship type he uses.
Assuming he also eyes on the other side of the outgate, catching one of these is actually fairly difficult.
You are quet wrong, it does not work like this anymore with the new ship warp changes ;), see my third reply :) CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
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