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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2024
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 13:58:00 -
[121] - Quote
Wormerling wrote:Tippia wrote:Activating a cloak disconnects you from the local channel. It should be added that the person who uses cloak should remain visible for others in local No, it should not be added, because then we'd still have the same problem (and he wouldn't be disconnected from local). If he still showed up, AFK cloaking would remain, the whole exercise would be pointless.
So no, per IA's suggestion: activating a cloak disconnects you from local GÇö you cannot use it to detect others and others cannot use it to detect you. Turning the cloak off means you connects back to local, and thus instantly are seen by everyone and can see everyone. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
714
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 14:04:00 -
[122] - Quote
Ah, here we go... time to necro this one: The Ultimate Guide to Life, the Universe and Cloaking. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
21
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 15:01:00 -
[123] - Quote
Ok, I have pretty much read this thread again (yes, after saying I didnt read the OP on maye 3 or something).
What it looks like to me is this,
The OP (and other posters) need to decide what they actually want....
1. are you looking to stop people being AFK, but are happy having someone in 'your' system who is cloaked but at the computer?
2. are you wanting to remove cloaks so that you can be safe in 'your' 0.0 system, without having anyone cloaking around you.
It seems to me that Tippia has proposed an elegant solutiuon, but people who are pretending to want point 1, but really want point 2 are saying anything they can to oppose her idea.
I have seen too many, "its our system, why should someone be able to come in and stop me carebearing in it"
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 17:30:00 -
[124] - Quote
I am in favor of a specialty POS module that can only be put online at sov level 4 or something like that.
It has the ability to pinpoint the location, name and shiptype of any ship in the system that is in space, if that ship has been in space in that system for over 12 hours, regardless of whether the ship is cloaked or not. It can also track movement of ships tht are in space in the system that have been there in space for over 12 hours.
What this does is it gives the sov holder a defensive advantage. You can cloak in system for up to 12 hours but then you must leave. You can enter and leave the system as many times as you like, each time the timer resets, but now the afk cloaker has to risk something. He has to pass through a gate periodically or he will be tracked and caught. 0.0 as an afk cloaker is not safe for him, as it is currently.
Also it would not be safe for someone in a fast dram at 6k per second either, as the module would allow sov holders to warp in right on him regardless of speed.
The basic idea? Sitting AFK cloaked isn't playing the game. Attacking people, invading, hotdropping, roaming, all that requires that you actually be playing the game. Bring it on. It also involves risk. Sitting AFK cloaked in a system is without risk and should not be allowed. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
718
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 17:43:00 -
[125] - Quote
Inmei T'ko wrote:I am in favor of a specialty POS module that can only be put online at sov level 4 or something like that.
It has the ability to pinpoint the location, name and shiptype of any ship in the system that is in space, if that ship has been in space in that system for over 12 hours, regardless of whether the ship is cloaked or not. It can also track movement of ships tht are in space in the system that have been there in space for over 12 hours.
What this does is it gives the sov holder a defensive advantage. You can cloak in system for up to 12 hours but then you must leave. You can enter and leave the system as many times as you like, each time the timer resets, but now the afk cloaker has to risk something. He has to pass through a gate periodically or he will be tracked and caught. 0.0 as an afk cloaker is not safe for him, as it is currently.
Also it would not be safe for someone in a fast dram at 6k per second either, as the module would allow sov holders to warp in right on him regardless of speed. The basic idea? Sitting AFK cloaked isn't playing the game. Attacking people, invading, hotdropping, roaming, all that requires that you actually be playing the game. Bring it on. It also involves risk. Sitting AFK cloaked in a system is without risk and should not be allowed.
Why do you actually think these are good ideas? What are you so afraid of in null sec that you want to turn it into your own little Hello Kitty flower garden? Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 18:16:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Why do you actually think these are good ideas? What are you so afraid of in null sec that you want to turn it into your own little Hello Kitty flower garden?
You want to come and fight? Come and fight. Invade. Use your supposedly superior skills, get a fleet together, attack. Don't not play the game by sitting AFK cloaked for weeks on end. That is your version of hello kitty and it sucks. Think of something better. Play the game. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
719
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 18:21:00 -
[127] - Quote
Inmei T'ko wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Why do you actually think these are good ideas? What are you so afraid of in null sec that you want to turn it into your own little Hello Kitty flower garden? You want to come and fight? Come and fight. Invade. Use your supposedly superior skills, get a fleet together, attack. Don't not play the game by sitting AFK cloaked for weeks on end. That is your version of hello kitty and it sucks. Think of something better. Play the game.
So you're admitting the problem is that you can see the cloaked person in local then... that you know he's there and that's the scary part?
Heh... you are so not ready for wormholes. That's the difference I guess between wormhole dwellers and your type... you all are always screaming to have the things that scare you nerfed, but we lose free intel (wormhole jump stats) and most wormhole folks are like "Meh, whatever, we'll adapt."
There's no reason to break cloak and the many perfectly viable and efficient tactics that come with it simply because you're weak. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 18:28:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote: So you're admitting the problem is that you can see the cloaked person in local then... that you know he's there and that's the scary part?
Heh... you are so not ready for wormholes. That's the difference I guess between wormhole dwellers and your type... you all are always screaming to have the things that scare you nerfed, but we lose free intel (wormhole jump stats) and most wormhole folks are like "Meh, whatever, we'll adapt."
There's no reason to break cloak and the many perfectly viable and efficient tactics that come with it simply because you're weak.
I lived in a WH for a year when WHs were first launched. You are completely missing the point.
PvPers love saying that "EVE is not safe - you are never safe - you should never be safe blah blah blah" an AFK cloaker is Completely, and Utterly, safe. He can sit there forever and there is nothing anyone can do about him. He isn't playing the game he is out doing something else yet his presence impacts others' enjoyment of the game. This should not be allowed. Plain, simple, End of story.
Come up with another tactic. Don't be lazy. You want somone out of an area of space, kick them out. Play the game! if you can... |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
720
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 21:06:00 -
[129] - Quote
Inmei T'ko wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote: So you're admitting the problem is that you can see the cloaked person in local then... that you know he's there and that's the scary part?
Heh... you are so not ready for wormholes. That's the difference I guess between wormhole dwellers and your type... you all are always screaming to have the things that scare you nerfed, but we lose free intel (wormhole jump stats) and most wormhole folks are like "Meh, whatever, we'll adapt."
There's no reason to break cloak and the many perfectly viable and efficient tactics that come with it simply because you're weak.
I lived in a WH for a year when WHs were first launched. You are completely missing the point. PvPers love saying that "EVE is not safe - you are never safe - you should never be safe blah blah blah" an AFK cloaker is Completely, and Utterly, safe. He can sit there forever and there is nothing anyone can do about him. He isn't playing the game he is out doing something else yet his presence impacts others' enjoyment of the game. This should not be allowed. Plain, simple, End of story. Come up with another tactic. Don't be lazy. You want somone out of an area of space, kick them out. Play the game! if you can...
There are no afk cloakers in wormholes first of all. They only exist where local exists.
The afk cloaker is also harmless and actually gives you the advantage. You know he's there, you have the ability to prepare for his presence and any possible attack. Bring a friend or three and there's pretty much little to nothing you'll need to fear for when he's no longer afk.
While he's afk... he's not there. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Transmission Lost
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 21:54:00 -
[130] - Quote
Hypnagogia Ichinumi wrote:I'm gonna start off by saying I didn't read any of this thread past the first sentence of the OP.
The problem is not that a single cloaker "can shut down an entire alliances PVE for as long as they wish." The problem is people being afraid to play a game based on risk when there is even a slight hint of danger.
Seriously, man up. There is an AFK cloaker in system. You know what that AFK means? It means more likely than not, that person is not at their computer. And if they are, they're pretending not to be so you think they are AFK.
If you're in null, where this is apparently a problem, you should be used to the idea of constant danger. Go about your business and be aware that you could be jumped at any time. Check Dscan for decloaks. Watch overview for an enemy on grid. Stay aligned. Its not hard.
Sure, once in a while you'll get ganked and lose that ship - but if you're doing your ratting or whatever while that person actually is AFK, you should be making more than you lose. Eve is a game of loss. If you don't want to lose anything, don't play. Exactly. This is one of the few times where I've been in agreement with TEST guys.
You can ask any WHer, the biggest thing is weighing your risk vs. reward; we deal with this all the time. Ratting in null sec, do you really need to be using your 3 bil isk mach to rat? I dunno. |
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Nikollai Tesla
Crytec Enterprises SRS.
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 22:24:00 -
[131] - Quote
GuRasta wrote:AFK cloaking has become one of the key issues with EVE, 1 person can shut down an entire alliances PVE for as long as they wish.
1 person can shut down an Allaince, as long as an Allaince is willing be to shutdown by 1 person
GuRasta wrote:Faction battleships people have worked hard on sit in hanger and don't get used, and how many do you think log on to play, notice and afk cloaker and no pvp ops atm and just change skills and log off instead of actually playing the game?
There are many different ships types in Eve, from faction, to tech 2, tech1. You need to find the right balance, sounds like the risk, reward for using a faction BS is not there.
GuRasta wrote:I know many including me that do it all the time. Sure, you can try to trap, until you get hotdropped by 20-40, it is normal protocol for almost EVERY nullsec alliance to just not rat with a cloak in system afk or not.
Sounds like the playstyle you are looking for is located in highsec, or you need to stop flying things worth getting hotdropped.
|
Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 01:32:00 -
[132] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:There are no afk cloakers in wormholes first of all. They only exist where local exists.
The afk cloaker is also harmless and actually gives you the advantage. You know he's there, you have the ability to prepare for his presence and any possible attack. Bring a friend or three and there's pretty much little to nothing you'll need to fear for when he's no longer afk.
While he's afk... he's not there.
Utter bullsh1te.
AFk cloakers shut down entire systems productivity. There is this thing, it's called a hotdrop. Specifically, in cynojammed nullsec, the black ops hotdrop. Alternatively, once you have been scanned down, there's the giant red blob rolling in from the nearby lowsec to gank you. Pretty much every alliance out there bans ratting or any activity in a system that has an AFk cloaker. You will be kicked for losing a ship to said AFk cloaker, when he scans you down while cloaked with dscan and brings in his friends.
You have the advantage? Clearly you need to go back to your WH, you have never lived in 0.0. Nothing to fear when he is no longer afk if you have a few friends? The game mechanics have been set up such that the best systems are few and far between, so to make the best amount of isk, everyone has to gather in one system. Upgrades are prohibitively expensive. people can't afford to upgrade any system at random. So you have spent a huge amount of isk for fuel and POSes and upgrades, you risk expensive ships in order to live in 0.0 and have an end game, and 1 person who is not even there can screw all that up not only for you but your entire alliance.
You can sit here and spew your bullsh1te till the cows come home, the fact is the status quo sucks and EVE is dying. 0.0 has become largely an exercise in frustration. When a game is no longer fun people stop playing it. you can be an expert in an extinct game! Very nice for you. |
LeHarfang
Intersteller Masons Wonder Kids
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 01:36:00 -
[133] - Quote
Since Eve online is supposed to be a sandbox game, it,s all about choices and their concequences. Null sec owners and w-space dwellers should be able to have an anti-covert op ship. I mean, it is true that when there is a cloak nearby, you can't do anything against him and it is annoying. When you own a system, you should be able to defend it accordingly against everything.
Of course, it must not break the use of spying ships so it would have to be balanced, like i already said.
Simply having them disconnect from local does'nt stop them from spying on you at a distance (warp at 100km near ennemy or neut structure). They're still able to do their spying and scouting work and you cant do anything about it. |
SGT FUNYOUN
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 01:57:00 -
[134] - Quote
Ok I have said this before, and I will say it again.
Cloaking devices are DESIGNED to make your ship COMPLETELY INVISIBLE. To ALL forms of detection. If they didn't then they would not be cloaking devices; they would be camoflauging devices.
The cloaking device has been an integral part of Sci-Fi since the days of Issac Asimov. They were DESIGNED to make a ship SEEM invincible. They are specifically in the game to MAKE IT so that you have to think twice about what tactics you are using. So instead of griping the same gripe THOUSANDS of other misinformed players who; just like you; REFUSE to read the "COMMONLY PROPOSED IDEAS" thread; how about you learn how to play better and try using some new tactics.
Or you can just keep letting me and the rest of us cloakers blow you to kingdom come... your choice.
This is Sci-Fi, not WOW where you can have it your way like Burger king. You can't just change an entire extremely succesful game mechanic by whining to the GM's about some thing you are too weak minded to do something about.
The Cloak has been a part of Sci-Fi and mythology since the days of Issac Asimov and King Arthur... This is Sci-Fi...
Now STOP F***ING WITH MY SCI-FI D*** IT!!! |
SGT FUNYOUN
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 02:03:00 -
[135] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23439 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2028
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 02:08:00 -
[136] - Quote
Inmei T'ko wrote:AFk cloakers shut down entire systems productivity. There is this thing, it's called a hotdrop. Specifically, in cynojammed nullsec, the black ops hotdrop. GǪwhich has nothing to do with AFK cloaking. If you're having problems with hotdrops, then maybe the thing that needs fixing isGǪ you knowGǪ hotdrops.
AFK cloakers do absolutely nothing. They do not shut down anything. The whole problem lies with the system inhabitants picking up stuff in local that they shouldn't be aware of.
Quote:Pretty much every alliance out there bans ratting or any activity in a system that has an AFk cloaker. You will be kicked for losing a ship to said AFk cloaker, when he scans you down while cloaked with dscan and brings in his friends. In other words, it's not the AFK cloaker who shuts down the system. And if you manage to die to someone who's AFK, then they're probably right in kicking you from the corpGǪ
Quote:the fact is the status quo sucks and EVE is dying. No, that is not a fact. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
SGT FUNYOUN
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 02:30:00 -
[137] - Quote
Inmei T'ko wrote:[Pretty much every alliance out there bans ratting or any activity in a system that has an AFk cloaker. You will be kicked for losing a ship to said AFk cloaker, when he scans you down while cloaked with dscan and brings in his friends.
...the fact is the status quo sucks and EVE is dying. 0.0 has become largely an exercise in frustration. When a game is no longer fun people stop playing it. You can be an "expert" in an extinct game! Very nice for you.
Ok first off... "pretty much every alliance"...
I was not aware this thread was started by a GM... you must work for CCP since you know soooo well how "every" alliance in EVE operates.
Oh you DON'T work for CCP? Then perhaps you need to stop playing with those WOW rejects in your weak a** "alliance" and find some mature players who don't go around busting your ba*** just because you lost a ship YOU payed for. That is know as...
... a BAD ALLIANCE.
Only BAD alliances and Corps kick players out for losing a ship. unless that ship is absolutely integral to the success of the entire mission, or it is owned by the corp; and even then they are still a bad corp because they were stupid enough to put all there hopes on one ship in LOW/NULL/WORM HOLE Security Space. That is the very definition of stupid.
Secondly, AFK means... AWAY FROM KEYBOARD!!! It means that there are NO input commands from the player flying said cloak ship. He/she is AFK means he/she CANNOT TOUCH YOU and therefore if you lose your ship to an AFK CLOAKER...
...perhaps you SHOULD rage quit because obviously you do not understand how TO FLY YOUR SHIP. AT ALL. If an AFK cloaker kills you; then you weren't paying attention.
Yes when a game stops being fun then people stop playing. If you don't like it, then you can always rage quit, pack up your anti-bacterial tighty whities, and go back to being an immature whiny cry baby and go play WOW once more.
So yes it can be frustrating to lose a ship. Guess what...
Space... OUTER SPACE...
Is cold; dark; and lonely. This game is as close to that as possible. If you lose your ship. It is YOUR fault. YOU screwed up. YOU were NOT paying attention. YOU are the ONLY one to blame.
Now I am going to say it again.
STOP F***ING WITH MY SCI-FI D*** IT!!! |
Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 03:17:00 -
[138] - Quote
Yes, pretty much every alliance. It's not a secret. You disobey their nullsec rules about avoiding losses, and you get kicked out. Simple. Not rocket science, even a loud, obnxious, idiot cap-typer like yourself should be able to figure that out.
AFK cloakers do just that - they sit AFk for hours. They may be playing the game on another client and occasionally hitting dscan on the other screen. They may be actually afk. They may be active. in any event, they are:
1. Totally safe as awesome Sci-Fi invincible cloaked people. Wow I am so sorry for messing with your scifi dreams by the way! You suck ass.
2. You should not ever be totally safe in EVE. The cloak makes you safe and allows you to disrupt operations in a system whether or not you are actively playing the game and this is the whole problem. It's not good for people to be safe in empire, but hypocritically, it's totally cool for a cloaker to sit there perfectly safe in nullsec? Bullsh1te.
3. The entire idea of this tactic is to cause disruptions in productivity by simply being there. We all get that. Combine it with a black ops or standard cyno however and you have a tactic that is basically impossible to counter. pvE fits cannot fight PvP fits we all know that. by the same token PvP fits can't survive PvE engagements. So the sov holder is always at a disadvantage. Always. This sucks. And it is not fun. It makes all the hard work and effort of bothering with 0.0 sov a waste of time and ultimately futile. knowing how to fly my ship or not has absolutely nothing to do with it, you miserable vomitous mass. It is game mechanics. Broken game mechanics.
4. Because the person carrying out this tactic has no risk, or very limited risk, versus the standard ratter's extremely high risk (1 billion isk PvE fit for instance) the tactic is not balanced. you know, balance? that thing that makes a game challenging interesting and fun to play? Awwww, you wanted to keep on ganking people with no recourse with your lazy ass tactic? Cry to your mommy when they either change it or when EVE folds because people get tired of this futile foolishness and go to another game.
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Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
726
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 04:39:00 -
[139] - Quote
Inmei T'ko wrote:Yes, pretty much every alliance. It's not a secret. You disobey their nullsec rules about avoiding losses, and you get kicked out. Simple. Not rocket science, even a loud, obnxious, idiot cap-typer like yourself should be able to figure that out.
AFK cloakers do just that - they sit AFk for hours. They may be playing the game on another client and occasionally hitting dscan on the other screen.
FYI... You called this person AFK. I do not think it means what you think it means. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Ekrund
Serenity Prime Cascade Imminent
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 05:28:00 -
[140] - Quote
Sir Lokit wrote:So let me get this straight. For people who dont agree. They say that 0.0 space isnt suppose to be safe. I dont think anyone ever argued that. No one is requesting for no pvp. Unless of course you guys are thinking something else? But out of the people that said that they disagreed, other than the post of "Its not suppose to be safe" No opinions were posted.
First and foremost. I feel if you dont agree with someone you should say WHY. Not just say, "Nope." In my opinion, if someone is AFK cloaked. There is no problem. They're AFK. Local defence fleets and proper intel are a great way to keep yourself protected. Anyway, as I've said in other threads on this topic, don't let your paranoia ruin your Eve experience. Use a bit of intel to work out their active times. Not 100% full proof, but neither is undocking and expecting to stay alive. |
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 08:27:00 -
[141] - Quote
Inmei T'ko wrote:Yes, pretty much every alliance. It's not a secret. You disobey their nullsec rules about avoiding losses, and you get kicked out. Simple. Not rocket science, even a loud, obnxious, idiot cap-typer like yourself should be able to figure that out.
AFK cloakers do just that - they sit AFk for hours. They may be playing the game on another client and occasionally hitting dscan on the other screen. They may be actually afk. They may be active. in any event, they are:
1. Totally safe as awesome Sci-Fi invincible cloaked people. Wow I am so sorry for messing with your scifi dreams by the way! You suck ass.
2. You should not ever be totally safe in EVE. The cloak makes you safe and allows you to disrupt operations in a system whether or not you are actively playing the game and this is the whole problem. It's not good for people to be safe in empire, but hypocritically, it's totally cool for a cloaker to sit there perfectly safe in nullsec? Bullsh1te.
3. The entire idea of this tactic is to cause disruptions in productivity by simply being there. We all get that. Combine it with a black ops or standard cyno however and you have a tactic that is basically impossible to counter. pvE fits cannot fight PvP fits we all know that. by the same token PvP fits can't survive PvE engagements. So the sov holder is always at a disadvantage. Always. This sucks. And it is not fun. It makes all the hard work and effort of bothering with 0.0 sov a waste of time and ultimately futile. knowing how to fly my ship or not has absolutely nothing to do with it, you miserable vomitous mass. It is game mechanics. Broken game mechanics.
4. Because the person carrying out this tactic has no risk, or very limited risk, versus the standard ratter's extremely high risk (1 billion isk PvE fit for instance) the tactic is not balanced. you know, balance? that thing that makes a game challenging interesting and fun to play? Awwww, you wanted to keep on ganking people with no recourse with your lazy ass tactic? Cry to your mommy when they either change it or when EVE folds because people get tired of this futile foolishness and go to another game.
First of all, I know of no alliances that kick players for losing a ship to an AFK Cloaker, but good for them for the ones that do.
As for your points that you make about Cloaking...
1 - They are not totally safe, they have to decloak to do anything besides watch, hmm maybe thats when you need to strike...and lets try to keep personal insults out of what up to this point has been a lively discussion.
2 - I have mined, ratted, plexed and even sat outside the pos shields afk while an AFK Cloaker was in system, I have never lost a ship to someone who isn't there. You simply have to act intellegently to think of creative solutions around the problem that you and your leadership are afraid of someone who isn't there.
3 - I have ratted for hours in a pvp fit ship, and I didn't lose one single precious isk/hour ratio.
4 - U mad bro?
I have seen personally dozens of effective ways to counter AFK Cloaking, and some of these methods are so simple that I cannot believe they aren't standard practice. I won't reveal anything because they are really annoying to deal with. But I will give you a hint...wait, no I won't.
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Mr Painless
Temnava Legion
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 10:20:00 -
[142] - Quote
Inmei T'ko wrote: AFK cloakers do just that - they sit AFk for hours. They may be playing the game on another client and occasionally hitting dscan on the other screen. They may be actually afk. They may be active. in any event, they are:
1. Totally safe as awesome Sci-Fi invincible cloaked people. Wow I am so sorry for messing with your scifi dreams by the way! You suck ass.
Well, as long as they're AFK, you're also totally safe and invincible with regards to them. So it's not AFK cloakers you're worried about, it's active cloakers.
Inmei T'ko wrote:2. You should not ever be totally safe in EVE. The cloak makes you safe and allows you to disrupt operations in a system whether or not you are actively playing the game and this is the whole problem. It's not good for people to be safe in empire, but hypocritically, it's totally cool for a cloaker to sit there perfectly safe in nullsec? Bullsh1te.
So basically you claim that it's not about being safe, it's about feeling safe. Remove local, or remove cloaky ships from local and you removed their incentive to be AFK cloaked.
Inmei T'ko wrote:3. The entire idea of this tactic is to cause disruptions in productivity by simply being there. We all get that. Combine it with a black ops or standard cyno however and you have a tactic that is basically impossible to counter. pvE fits cannot fight PvP fits we all know that. by the same token PvP fits can't survive PvE engagements. So the sov holder is always at a disadvantage. Always. This sucks. And it is not fun. It makes all the hard work and effort of bothering with 0.0 sov a waste of time and ultimately futile. knowing how to fly my ship or not has absolutely nothing to do with it, you miserable vomitous mass. It is game mechanics. Broken game mechanics.
Basically, you are having issues with hotdrop mechanics, not AFK cloaking. And with regards to sov holder being always at a disadvantage... you have to be kidding, right?
Inmei T'ko wrote:4. Because the person carrying out this tactic has no risk, or very limited risk, versus the standard ratter's extremely high risk (1 billion isk PvE fit for instance) the tactic is not balanced. you know, balance? that thing that makes a game challenging interesting and fun to play? Awwww, you wanted to keep on ganking people with no recourse with your lazy ass tactic? Cry to your mommy when they either change it or when EVE folds because people get tired of this futile foolishness and go to another game.
He has very limited risk because you're not doing anything to make things riskier for him but rather whine instead. And if you need a billion ISK ship in order to rat efficiently, then you fail at EVE.
On a final note... There were dozens of "solutions" to AFK cloaking proposed here, and all of them besides failing at the most fundamental level of fixing things that don't need to be fixed also fail at another one. Most of the suggestions like probing, losing cloak if you sit long enough in one place or don't do this or that periodically are avoidable by using bots. Just think about it. If bots can rat, run missions and plexes and also monitor local and run to safety when needed, then they can surely be programmed to warp to different safespot every few minutes. All of these "solutions" will not solve what their promoters wish (which is basically, to make them feel safer) but will only put incentive to use bots for yet another role. I think bots are ruining EVE enough already. But maybe there would be some poetic justice in it. Using bots to prevent other bots from doing their job. ;) |
Soldarius
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2011.12.13 10:34:00 -
[143] - Quote
Strangely, there seems to be a glut of these threads lately. So rather than rewriting my entire post, I'll simply link it.
Bombers with bombs in the cargo bay are already tight on cargo space. A bomber with a cyno is even tighter. This suggestion would kill cloaking of any kind, and make Black Ops absolutely worthless. "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Zawisza Black
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
0
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Posted - 2012.02.17 02:37:00 -
[144] - Quote
You should have to actively play the game and use teamwork to disrupt an Sov economy. It's time we stop rewarding people not playing the game 95% of the time (getting rewards from being afk sounds similar to a bot).
You want to disrupt someone's sov ecnonomy, fine get a gang together harass their ratting/mining and actually play the game.
Tired of the trolls whining that they won't be able to stop people from making isk with almost no effort on their part if afk cloaking is fixed.
The argument that afk cloaking is the only way to stop botters is ridiculous - "lets stop afk players by using more afk players." Leave the botting worry to the CCP programers who can build in algorithms to capture repetitive input - its doable and has been done in plenty of other games. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
65
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 02:51:00 -
[145] - Quote
There is nothing wrong on harassing a sov economy with a cloaked ship.... And there is no problem on a ship scouting all day long a system while cloaked.... The problem is being AFK the whole day in the system whille destroying the system economy with noone being able to do nothing about it...
That is why, the solution for this is not Covert ops fuel, (That is a lazy solution, since you would only need to wait for its fuel to run out) but a Cloak hunter Ship! As proposed by CCP in the last CSM meeting! With the help of this ship it would be able to probe and try to find the cloaked ship, what is way more interactive and fun...
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Zawisza Black
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 03:05:00 -
[146] - Quote
I agree a cloak hunting ship is an excellent idea. Everything should have a counter... especially profiting from NOT actively playing the game. Make the cloak hunting ship a heron type fragile ship or cruiser type so that it's not too powerful a counter to legitimate active cloak gangs. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4931
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 04:52:00 -
[147] - Quote
Zawisza Black wrote:You should have to actively play the game and use teamwork to disrupt an Sov economy. It's time we stop rewarding people not playing the game 95% of the time (getting rewards from being afk sounds similar to a bot). Funnily enough, it's people's decision not to actively play the game and not use teamwork that disrupts their sov. If they chose to be active and use teamwork, the disruption would stop.
The simple fact of the matter is this: AFK cloakers don't disrupt anything.
Quote:You want to disrupt someone's sov ecnonomy, fine get a gang together harass their ratting/mining and actually play the game. You want to not get your economy disrupted? Fine. Get a gang together and harGǪ no wait. You don't even need to do that. Simply choose not to get disrupted, and you won't be.
Quote:Tired of the trolls whining They'd have to accept that the AFKers don't actually do anything before they could stop trolling and whining. You are talking about the AFK whiners, I presume?
Alx Warlord wrote:The problem is being AFK the whole day in the system whille destroying the system economy with noone being able to do nothing about it... Good thing that there's plenty of things that can be done about it, then, and that AFK:ing doesn't actually destroy anything to begin with.
Zawisza Black wrote:Everything should have a counter... especially profiting from NOT actively playing the game. Why do you want to nerf trading? Also, what's the relevance here. This is a thread about AFK cloakers GÇö people who don't actually make any profit at all. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
96
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 09:45:00 -
[148] - Quote
For shame Zawisza Black for resurrecting the deservedly dead. I too am learned in the ways of Necromancy, don't tempt me to resurrect every Remove Local Chat thread.
Speaking of which...
Remove Local Chat Intel! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2106
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 10:10:00 -
[149] - Quote
a terrible thread full of terrible ideas
everyone should be ashamed yeah no i'm not actually running for csm7
got you lol!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
134
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 11:23:00 -
[150] - Quote
Zawisza Black wrote:I agree a cloak hunting ship is an excellent idea. Everything should have a counter... especially profiting from NOT actively playing the game. Make the cloak hunting ship a heron type fragile ship or cruiser type so that it's not too powerful a counter to legitimate active cloak gangs.
omg, you still stick to your ret*rded view on profiting from "NOT actively playing the game". I vote you for getting no SP anymore when afk or logged. And your trade slots, manufactoring and research slots should become inactive too when you arent logged in and at keyboard. You should not profit from not playing the game, no afk skilling, afk trading or afk researching for you. |
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