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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.10.18 16:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Im a big fan of artillery and enjoy finding a niche' for them, other than alpha nados and insta lock canes.. The problem i have is theyre very hard to fit. Mainly small and medium turrets. Im perfectly fine with larges (1400) and their fittings due to the huge alpha theyre capable of.
Small and medium arty needs a slight PG reduction. Around 10% would be good. The reasoning is i have to add so many PG mods to fit on minmatar ships that are specialized for artillery. The other reason, since the TE nerf, minny ac dont have range/application they used to. Id like to see arty used more and be a relevant weapon system., instead of its only niche being ganking noobs in HS or camping gates.
Dont get me wrong, i know arty cynabals and lokis are stilll used, but cyna had a fitting nerf, and t3s will eventually be rebalanced. Im also aware arty had a fitting buff a few patches ago which helped, but i think either a tweak to arty PG or specific pg buffs to certian ships would be reasonable.
Big offenders are jag and muninn. Both are in need of a rework, jag cap and fitting is pretty terrible. Muninn needs more PG, since 720s and mwd use up 75% of your grid.
If anything, give the 650s and 1200s, a bigger PG reduction, as they are rarely used and need something for people to use them that give an obvious fitting improvement. More RoF would be nice, but i think a PG buff is a fair start.
Just my .02 isk |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.10.18 16:18:33 -
[2] - Quote
Im a big fan of artillery and enjoy finding a niche' for them, other than alpha nados and insta lock canes.. The problem i have is theyre very hard to fit. Mainly small and medium turrets. Im perfectly fine with larges (1400) and their fittings due to the huge alpha theyre capable of.
Small and medium arty needs a slight PG reduction. Around 10% would be good. The reasoning is i have to add so many PG mods to fit on minmatar ships that are specialized for artillery. The other reason, since the TE nerf, minny ac dont have range/application they used to. Id like to see arty used more and be a relevant weapon system., instead of its only niche being ganking noobs in HS or camping gates.
Dont get me wrong, i know arty cynabals and lokis are stilll used, but cyna had a fitting nerf, and t3s will eventually be rebalanced. Im also aware arty had a fitting buff a few patches ago which helped, but i think either a tweak to arty PG or specific pg buffs to certian ships would be reasonable.
Big offenders are jag and muninn. Both are in need of a rework, jag cap and fitting is pretty terrible. Muninn needs more PG, since 720s and mwd use up 75% of your grid.
If anything, give the 650s and 1200s, a bigger PG reduction, as they are rarely used and need something for people to use them that give an obvious fitting improvement. More RoF would be nice, but i think a PG buff is a fair start.
Just my .02 isk |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
846
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Posted - 2014.10.18 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quite a few of the min ships that were "supposed" to be usable as an arty platform got various changes since that have left them kind of not really well suited to anything and lacking the PG for arty and/or don't have the slot layouts anymore needed to really make them work.
Shame I quite like my arty also. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
865
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Posted - 2014.10.18 17:34:18 -
[4] - Quote
Quite a few of the min ships that were "supposed" to be usable as an arty platform got various changes since that have left them kind of not really well suited to anything and lacking the PG for arty and/or don't have the slot layouts anymore needed to really make them work.
Shame I quite like my arty also. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.10.18 17:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ive had luck with some of my jag and muninn arty fits, but they almost always require implants to use. Jag more so than muninn. Seriously though, who thinks a plated artillery ship has any chance of killing things before they get under its guns? The ONLY half decent armor muninn is the old alpha doctrine for fleets. But no one uses it because its drones online atm and the muninn is outclassed pretty much by every long range HAC. If the muninn had the broadsword slot layout, it would be sexy as hell. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.10.18 17:47:20 -
[6] - Quote
Ive had luck with some of my jag and muninn arty fits, but they almost always require implants to use. Jag more so than muninn. Seriously though, who thinks a plated artillery ship has any chance of killing things before they get under its guns? The ONLY half decent armor muninn is the old alpha doctrine for fleets. But no one uses it because its drones online atm and the muninn is outclassed pretty much by every long range HAC. If the muninn had the broadsword slot layout, it would be sexy as hell. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
368
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Posted - 2014.10.18 18:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
So you want a boat that has no weekness? signature |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
499
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Posted - 2014.10.18 18:18:07 -
[8] - Quote
So you want a boat that has no weakness?
signature
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.10.18 18:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weekness?
Weakness*
No, i want a ship that can fit its intended weapon without double fitting mods or implants. Any frig can outtrack medium arty when they orbit you. Last time i checked, the muninn is slower than all frigs and most cruisers. Id say thats a good weakness. Not to mention after fitting mods you have very little room for tank. Im ok with a single ACR, but needing 2 or 1 macr and rcu is just silly.
Fit a muninn with 720s and mwd, then fit tank. Let me know how that works out. If i wanted to fly a glass cannon, a nado would be better and cheaper.
I dont mind having a weakness, but having to use multiple slots or buy implants just to fit its intended weapon system with alittle tank is absurd. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.10.18 18:49:35 -
[10] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weekness?
Weakness*
No, i want a ship that can fit its intended weapon without double fitting mods or implants. Any frig can outtrack medium arty when they orbit you. Last time i checked, the muninn is slower than all frigs and most cruisers. Id say thats a good weakness. Not to mention after fitting mods you have very little room for tank. Im ok with a single ACR, but needing 2 or 1 macr and rcu is just silly.
Fit a muninn with 720s and mwd, then fit tank. Let me know how that works out. If i wanted to fly a glass cannon, a nado would be better and cheaper.
I dont mind having a weakness, but having to use multiple slots or buy implants just to fit its intended weapon system with alittle tank is absurd. |
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
262
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Posted - 2014.10.18 19:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weekness?
(some people are just dumb)
I agree with the OP, artillery is too difficult to fit. Even the smaller size in each class. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
293
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Posted - 2014.10.18 19:42:11 -
[12] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weekness?
(some people are just dumb)
I agree with the OP, artillery is too difficult to fit. Even the smaller size in each class. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
128
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Posted - 2014.10.18 21:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think a 12% reduction in the smaller size of arty is about right, along with an 8% in the larger of small and medium, and a 2% reduction on 1400s (just so you can get 8 guns (and nothing else) on a nado without any fitting mods). That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
306
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Posted - 2014.10.18 21:30:21 -
[14] - Quote
I think a 12% reduction in the smaller size of arty is about right, along with an 8% in the larger of small and medium, and a 2% reduction on 1400s (just so you can get 8 guns (and nothing else) on a nado without any fitting mods).
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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elitatwo
Congregatio
369
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Posted - 2014.10.18 21:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weekness? Weakness* ooops
signature |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
499
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Posted - 2014.10.18 21:51:37 -
[16] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weekness? Weakness* ooops
signature
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
43
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:I think a 12% reduction in the smaller size of arty is about right, along with an 8% in the larger of small and medium, and a 2% reduction on 1400s (just so you can get 8 guns (and nothing else) on a nado without any fitting mods). i think leaving 1400s where there are is best. 10k alpha on a nado deserves a trade off. Everything else i agree with though.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:06:35 -
[18] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:I think a 12% reduction in the smaller size of arty is about right, along with an 8% in the larger of small and medium, and a 2% reduction on 1400s (just so you can get 8 guns (and nothing else) on a nado without any fitting mods). i think leaving 1400s where there are is best. 10k alpha on a nado deserves a trade off. Everything else i agree with though.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.12.02 17:47:29 -
[19] - Quote
Would like to remind devs of this when new minny t3 destroyer is being developed. Please make some fitting tweaks for small arty at least. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
544
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Posted - 2014.12.02 17:56:45 -
[20] - Quote
The problem stems from ships having loads of extra grid for arty - which they then abused for hilarious AC fits so were nerfed.
What should have happened is arty fitting should have come down commensurately so the extra grid wasn't abusable but arty remained fittable. |
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1384
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:10:58 -
[21] - Quote
afkalt wrote:The problem stems from ships having loads of extra grid for arty - which they then abused for hilarious AC fits so were nerfed.
What should have happened is arty fitting should have come down commensurately at the same time as cutting grid back so the extra grid wasn't abusable but arty remained fittable.
This or make autos not so easy to fit. One way or another to prevent the stupidity that used to be common. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
165
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:22:55 -
[22] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:James Baboli wrote:I think a 12% reduction in the smaller size of arty is about right, along with an 8% in the larger of small and medium, and a 2% reduction on 1400s (just so you can get 8 guns (and nothing else) on a nado without any fitting mods). i think leaving 1400s where there are is best. 10k alpha on a nado deserves a trade off. Everything else i agree with though.
Not so fast, with perfect skills I can't do a full rack of 1400 and a take on a malstrom, I can with 1200s but they just dont have the same feel
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Tusker Crazinski
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
3
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:29:27 -
[23] - Quote
agree, and I think more ships, particularly republic fleet ships should be more bonused to arty.
elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weakness?
hmm consuming all your grid to fit the worst tracking, lowest DPS, turrets period. lowest optimal among long guns, most un-bonused weapon system. pretty much all the matari gunboats are bonused for ACs and active tanking
I don't mind needing ACRs and plats to fit arty boats, its the ships that straight up cannot fit top tier howitzers.
namely the stabber and all variations cannot fit artillery and arty on hurricanes is laughably underwhelming |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:35:28 -
[24] - Quote
Agondray wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:James Baboli wrote:I think a 12% reduction in the smaller size of arty is about right, along with an 8% in the larger of small and medium, and a 2% reduction on 1400s (just so you can get 8 guns (and nothing else) on a nado without any fitting mods). i think leaving 1400s where there are is best. 10k alpha on a nado deserves a trade off. Everything else i agree with though. Not so fast, with perfect skills I can't do a full rack of 1400 and a take on a malstrom, I can with 1200s but they just dont have the same feel
Sounds like its working as intended then. Mael is a battleship, the nado is not. So it makes sense to fit a PG rig or RCU to fit the biggest subcap alpha guns in the game on a smaller hull. Plus, alpha nados are regularly used to gank. Dont need to make their fits cheaper or allow more alpha strike. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1011
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Posted - 2014.12.02 18:58:08 -
[25] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Agondray wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:James Baboli wrote:I think a 12% reduction in the smaller size of arty is about right, along with an 8% in the larger of small and medium, and a 2% reduction on 1400s (just so you can get 8 guns (and nothing else) on a nado without any fitting mods). i think leaving 1400s where there are is best. 10k alpha on a nado deserves a trade off. Everything else i agree with though. Not so fast, with perfect skills I can't do a full rack of 1400 and a take on a malstrom, I can with 1200s but they just dont have the same feel Sounds like its working as intended then. Mael is a battleship, the nado is not. So it makes sense to fit a PG rig or RCU to fit the biggest subcap alpha guns in the game on a smaller hull. Plus, alpha nados are regularly used to gank. Dont need to make their fits cheaper or allow more alpha strike.
decrease the PG bonus on nados for the guns
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
499
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:54:21 -
[26] - Quote
Tusker Crazinski wrote:agree, and I think more ships, particularly republic fleet ships should be more bonused to arty. elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weakness? hmm consuming all your grid to fit the worst tracking, lowest DPS, turrets period. lowest optimal among long guns, most un-bonused weapon system. pretty much all the matari gunboats are bonused for ACs and active tanking I don't mind needing ACRs and plats to fit arty boats, its the ships that straight up cannot fit top tier howitzers. namely the stabber and all variations cannot fit artillery and arty on hurricanes is laughably underwhelming
And still cannot fit heavy neutron blasters and five medium armor reps on my Thorax without help.
signature
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
308
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Posted - 2014.12.02 23:37:02 -
[27] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tusker Crazinski wrote:agree, and I think more ships, particularly republic fleet ships should be more bonused to arty. elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weakness? hmm consuming all your grid to fit the worst tracking, lowest DPS, turrets period. lowest optimal among long guns, most un-bonused weapon system. pretty much all the matari gunboats are bonused for ACs and active tanking I don't mind needing ACRs and plats to fit arty boats, its the ships that straight up cannot fit top tier howitzers. namely the stabber and all variations cannot fit artillery and arty on hurricanes is laughably underwhelming And still cannot fit heavy neutron blasters and five medium armor reps on my Thorax without help. Not the point. the point is that you almost cannot fit the guns on the ships to begin with, not that you can't fill the lows with plates and reps and dual prop and never worry about fitting room.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1777
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Posted - 2014.12.03 00:14:21 -
[28] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weakness? How did you come to that conclusion? |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
499
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Posted - 2014.12.03 00:41:36 -
[29] - Quote
Rowells wrote:elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weakness? How did you come to that conclusion?
artillery guns = high-alpha guns one the fasted ships in EVE - do the math.
signature
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
309
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Posted - 2014.12.03 00:48:59 -
[30] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Rowells wrote:elitatwo wrote:So you want a boat that has no weakness? How did you come to that conclusion? artillery guns = high-alpha guns one the fasted ships in EVE - do the math. In most cases, the ships people are trying to get arty onto are things more like ruptures than stabbers, which are substantially slower.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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