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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5941
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Posted - 2014.10.21 18:28:15 -
[91] - Quote
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Baneken wrote:Either way having free SP / XP / lvl's from the get go is never a good idea, no matter how smart for the business. It's the next logical step from allowing people to buy their way into the game with PLEX for character trading. Everyone who supported that mechanic implicitly supported this coming along. Both buying this type of character and the permadeath is against the fundamental nature of Eve. When people start complaining and asking for their money back from CCP after losing money when someone pops them, hopefully this bad idea will be removed and the creator of it will be fired for being drunk on the job. There's this trend of people thinking "it doesnt affect me, I don't have to use it if I dont like it, etc", its an MMO, it always affects you what goes into the game even if you choose not to use it. That's part of the package deal of MMOs and even real life. You cant avoid the affects of things that happen by not participating. They'll hit you anyways. People keep forgetting this simple rule even if they've run into it numerous times. Think of it as enabling Phoebe's capital nerfs to be effectively nullified through pay to win. And I say this as someone who will likely use it for that purpose. The characters would not be capable of cap ship use, so that is fairly unlikely.
If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á
Ranger 1 Presents
https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents
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Mharius Skjem
Republic University Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2014.10.21 21:50:49 -
[92] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:not to mention the huge scalability of multiboxing plug-and-play utility characters. why maintain the character when you can just spawn one. 20 million SP is a very dangerous figure--it strikes me as a basic figure for an across the board level IV character, which compared to an all-V character is pretty close in most cases.
what do I think? a move toward Free to Play. just kidding. but a second sticking point was the part about limiting the uses for these easy bake characters. there's just one way they'll be used: the most exploitive and beneficial. everyone can count on that.
When I first started playing in 2007 I didn't know what I was doing and spent nearly two years getting to 24mil sp, that's in the days before the double skill training speeds that we have now.
I stuck it out and emotionally invested into my character in doing so.
Tl dr it's a bad idea on the face of it. I've paid for my sp in time and money.
A recovering btter vet, -áwith a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
166
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Posted - 2014.10.21 22:07:19 -
[93] - Quote
Nope. |
Arbitos
GamCorp Almost Broken
3
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Posted - 2014.10.21 23:03:36 -
[94] - Quote
/looks at can of budweiser |
Herateis
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.10.22 20:51:53 -
[95] - Quote
Hope Rise gets fired. Instead of looking for new ways to irrevocably damage the game, why not look for ways to improve on what it already is in support of the spirit of Eve? Any phrase that starts with 'wouldn't it be cool if' usually is a shittastic idea that damages the game if implemented. Seen it plenty of times. Think outside the box about what else can fit IN it, not about how you can break the box and change it's shape. |
Gel Musana
LOL a Sticky Situation
39
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Posted - 2014.10.22 21:15:41 -
[96] - Quote
This perma-death is a ****** idea. If you want more players, make a perma ship instead! Let it blow up any time and it will come back with modules included . Maybe only available for the first 90 days. Or add a proper ship insurance. I am surprised to hear about this kind of deep crap thinking. You cannot change the core mechanic and principle of the game. It's like changing religion.
Ideology -ás-h-i-t -álist
https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Gel%20Musana
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Herateis
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.10.22 21:25:38 -
[97] - Quote
While I agree with your intended message, the idea of a permaship contradicts you entirely. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6511
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Posted - 2014.10.22 21:31:13 -
[98] - Quote
So many people like to hound carebears of all sorts about how EVE is hard/ a cold harsh place/ HTFU/ moar tears plox etc.
That is, until a dev suggests a mechanic in which all those platitudes would actually become true. Then it's a whole different kettle of fish, innit?
CCP should have had a perma-death option since day one, in my opinion.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2401
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Posted - 2014.10.22 22:23:55 -
[99] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So many people like to hound carebears of all sorts about how EVE is hard/ a cold harsh place/ HTFU/ moar tears plox etc. That is, until a dev suggests a mechanic in which all those platitudes would actually become true. Then it's a whole different kettle of fish, innit? CCP should have had a perma-death option since day one, in my opinion. Mr Epeen You do realize this doesn't directly affect existing pvp characters, right? Existing and "normal" characters, like mine and yours, wouldn't be affected. I see individuals using this for two use cases:
1) Leaderboards/ladder. If the leaderboards for permadeath characters (which rise mentioned in his presentation) go through, many people (myself included) will put their regular characters into falcons, ogb's, neutral logi, rapiers, etc. and use them to assist the "permadeath" characters to farm leaderboard stats.
2) Disposable utility alts. Specifically: -AFK cloakers -cyno -covert cyno -scout alts (either in ceptor or covops) -falcon alts (and cheaper griffins/blackbirds) -ewar alts in general (from the lowly maulus or hyena to the arazu/rapier/curse) -neutral logi (either in the form of T1 frigs/cruisers or T2 frigs/cruisers) -link alts
If these alts are f2p, as has been suggested, you have to prohibit a whole lot of use cases. Effectively, these characters would have to be limited to T1 dps hulls to prevent ridiculous levels of abuse.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like the idea. It's just ridiculously easy to break. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6513
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Posted - 2014.10.22 22:51:20 -
[100] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: Don't get me wrong, I actually like the idea. It's just ridiculously easy to break.
It sure could be if implemented badly (as CCP has a reputation for doing), but if done well it would add a new dimension to the game.
I'd be hunting them exclusively even if they were cloaker/ booster/ cyno etc. EVE players are pretty clever when they have a good enough incentive. And trust me, hardcore tears is a great incentive to develop some new tactics.
But at the end of the day, I'm sure there would be enough restrictions on these guys to cripple them significantly. It is, after all, a hook to get players invested enough to sub. Not all that different than how they restrict trial accts now.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Khorvek
Dead Pool Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2014.10.22 22:53:22 -
[101] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So many people like to hound carebears of all sorts about how EVE is hard/ a cold harsh place/ HTFU/ moar tears plox etc. That is, until a dev suggests a mechanic in which all those platitudes would actually become true. Then it's a whole different kettle of fish, innit? CCP should have had a perma-death option since day one, in my opinion. Mr Epeen
Like I said, I played games that had permadeath and while I enjoyed those games, this game has been fundamental to the core of respawn after death with some losses. Changing that now is undermining the foundation of the game. Like poster above said, it'll either be totally out of control in terms of abuse, or it'll be so stripped down that it'll be stupid and worthless.
An MMO is like a relationship. People change and want to move on, and if you try to change yourself to win them over and keep them, you will violate your own principles and lose both the other person and yourself in the end. Rise is drunk and he needs to go home and sleep it off. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5580
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Posted - 2014.10.23 01:50:37 -
[102] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So many people like to hound carebears of all sorts about how EVE is hard/ a cold harsh place/ HTFU/ moar tears plox etc. That is, until a dev suggests a mechanic in which all those platitudes would actually become true. Then it's a whole different kettle of fish, innit? CCP should have had a perma-death option since day one, in my opinion. Mr Epeen
Would even be better if the permadeath status of a player showed up on pod killmails. That's almost a "crystal egg" moment.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23211
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Posted - 2014.10.23 02:06:47 -
[103] - Quote
Permadeath duel ganks... Get concordokken. Worthit.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1868
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Posted - 2014.10.23 04:49:22 -
[104] - Quote
I didn't hear the scoop and I can't find any info on it, but I cobbled together a functional hypothetical version of what you guys are talking about that doesn't utterly break EVE:
20 million skill points in a trial account character that are pre-spent into a wide variety of combat-oriented skills. You can't train the character and you can't move it out of trial status even though the account it is attached to can become a paying account with normal payed characters with their own skill queues. Once it dies, it's dead forever--this is to prevent too many cheap whelps. The cost of the account that has this character is more expensive than most whelp ships.
It'd be nice if you could keep the dead remnant of the character as a reference for your skill training.
Even better: a skill "shell" which allows your character to act as if it has skills it doesn't have, until your first death. That way you move on as if nothing happened, keep the same character and corporation and friends.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10416
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Posted - 2014.10.23 05:57:09 -
[105] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: Don't get me wrong, I actually like the idea. It's just ridiculously easy to break.
It sure could be if implemented badly (as CCP has a reputation for doing), but if done well it would add a new dimension to the game. I'd be hunting them exclusively even if they were cloaker/ booster/ cyno etc. EVE players are pretty clever when they have a good enough incentive. And trust me, hardcore tears is a great incentive to develop some new tactics. But at the end of the day, I'm sure there would be enough restrictions on these guys to cripple them significantly. It is, after all, a hook to get players invested enough to sub. Not all that different than how they restrict trial accts now. Mr Epeen Like you said, Eve players are pretty clever and when presented with something that is so easily abused you can be sure that it will be. I can't see any way to prevent the abuse without reducing the available skills to the point of being worthless anyways. |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
335
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Posted - 2014.10.23 07:18:23 -
[106] - Quote
Infinite trial with the current restricted skills yes but otherwise nope and sure as hell not permadeath. |
Daniel Jackson
Liandri Sanctuary Corps Liandri Covenant
38
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Posted - 2014.10.23 07:40:30 -
[107] - Quote
they said that in order to choose the permadeath option u would need to make a new character using the permadeath option in the character creation screen.
then that character will not be able to do regular skill training as skill training won't exist for those characters
u will need to buy special implants that gives u a set of skill points to allocate to skills
I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!!
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Mharius Skjem
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2014.10.23 12:37:39 -
[108] - Quote
But they'd still be capsulars though and fly their ships from pods without the backup of any clones I expect.
Seems like we're edging closer to free 2 play eve with micro transaction topping everything up.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Nou Mene
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
0
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Posted - 2014.10.23 12:52:27 -
[109] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Abrazzar wrote:With 20 million you could create a infinite army of market, science and datacore alts that never leave the station. Unless they have harsh restrictions on their skills, that concept will be very devastating to the account infrastructure of EVE. They already trashed it when people started making allowed alt accounts, and then selling ISK for GameTimeCards. The more people can pump RL money into a game to be self sufficient, the worse and more facile it is to actually play the game on a single account, selling or trading, pvping, etc. It's essentially pay2win, especially when CCP then played WITH the people trading GTC for ISK and created PLEX, as well as allowing character trading. It cheapens the entire game. It's like running with cheat codes. It won't help player retention to make the game so easy, but they decided to do all that because they were very hungry for the extra money even though it breaks the entire immersive experience and such of the game. If they made an Eve Offline as a Single Player game, that was based on the 2004-2006 version of Eve Online, I'd go play that instead. Then things stop getting easier and more dumbed down and more pay2win, because me being the only one playing it, I have to accept the game and the progression "as is" rather than shove RL money at my perceived problems. Balrog Valarauko wrote:Anything that brings in loads of fresh meat and doesn't break the game for the existing player-base would be a good idea at this point.
IF they are smart about the limitations they place on free accounts and have real benefits for players that continue to subscribe, then F2P may be a great way to extend the life of this game. They started "doing it wrong" from a gameplay enjoyment perspective when they started "doing it right" from a business perspective by going into allowing alts and alt accounts and then GTC>ISK and finally to PLEX>ISK>Characters. Imagine, if you will, an Eve Online where everything that happens in game stays in game, and nothing out of game affects it. Where a larger alliance can be taken down by a smaller alliance because they don't have a rich moneybags type paying RL money for Titans. Where you can go solo if you want, but teamwork increases both your own and your corp's profits, because everyone has different skills they bring to the table, instead of just hopping on your alt. Basically, imagine an actual MMO that feels like a single player game immersively, yet is grown and run by real breathing people. And then imagine that things CANT stagnate in nullsec or anywhere else, because the limitations for players allow individuals and groups to have huge effects in game, which legions of expensive alt accounts and throwing RL money into PLEX for power ships can't ruin. They based these flawed methods of player retention on the idea that once you have a customer, you should try to entice them back as often as possible. I still have an inbox filled with Eve-O junkmail proclaiming all sorts of gifts or rewards if I re-up. Instead of saying "okay, we know that people play a game, and when they find themselves feeling satisfied and content with their goals in game, they quit, just like a single player game" they continually try to produce carrots to keep people interested just lazily enough to churn out another 15$ through PLEX trade or actually buying game time or whatever. Every time I've seen games do this model, the game goes in a downward spiral direction of things getting "easier", people getting "stronger" (e.g. able to do more on their own without interacting with others) and so on. The game gets qualitatively worse while it appears to be getting better to appease the "want it all and right now" crowd that actually isn't interested in playing an MMO (See: carebear tears over freighter ganks). This permadeath super character shenanigans is another nail in the coffin. Balrog Valarauko wrote:Anything that brings in loads of fresh meat and doesn't break the game for the existing player-base would be a good idea at this point.
IF they are smart about the limitations they place on free accounts and have real benefits for players that continue to subscribe, then F2P may be a great way to extend the life of this game. To keep playing if the changes occur is tacit agreement with said changes. Because it's a silent vote for yes with money. Silence is consent, especially if you hand someone money. That's how most businesses and governments work already.
best post ever |
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company Ethical Carnage
165
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Posted - 2014.11.16 01:51:40 -
[110] - Quote
Has CCP ****ing lost their minds? Permadeath? That will lose so many characters, be so badly exploited, you will lose players so fast!
If I lost Vulxanis permanently, I couldn't continue to play EVE. I just couldn't. My whole experience would be shattered. Nothing you can say will make that better if I lose my main.
And I won't be the only one. ESPECIALLY in the roleplaying community.
Fide et honore.
Curious about Roleplay in EVE? Message me & I'll help you!
(IC note: Vulxanis only responds to "Lord Draconis".)
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Xavier Holtzman
Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension
223
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Posted - 2014.11.16 02:07:54 -
[111] - Quote
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:Has CCP ****ing lost their minds? Permadeath? That will lose so many characters, be so badly exploited, you will lose players so fast!
If I lost Vulxanis permanently, I couldn't continue to play EVE. I just couldn't. My whole experience would be shattered. Nothing you can say will make that better if I lose my main.
And I won't be the only one. ESPECIALLY in the roleplaying community.
Holy necro, Batman.
I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it.
- Bill Frug
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24840
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Posted - 2014.11.16 02:13:25 -
[112] - Quote
grateful for it though, right?
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
235
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Posted - 2014.11.16 02:24:23 -
[113] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:With 20 million you could create a infinite army of market, science and datacore alts that never leave the station. Unless they have harsh restrictions on their skills, that concept will be very devastating to the account infrastructure of EVE.
I believe the professions you describe were explicitly excluded from the proposal. The sensational 20 million SPs could not comprise of station-centric skills, like the ones you describe.
E: I see someone said KLAATU BARADA NIK COUGH COUGH COUGH |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
188
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Posted - 2014.11.16 07:46:22 -
[114] - Quote
Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
988
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Posted - 2014.11.16 07:59:13 -
[115] - Quote
They ain't locked this thread yet?
Ezwal is slipping, he must be on the smack again.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
64
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:07:23 -
[116] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Yes the biggest problem is what would players do with them, the current use of multiple alts or go home, is already horribly unbalancing the game for those who do not wish to do that. This would take it to a whole new level. If however, the New space did not allow alts online, or the new permadeath, and was balanced accordingly, there would still be the opportunity for a TRUE solo player to count. BUT. The fact that the idea is even being considered in the most vague terms, is actually strongly indicative that there is something seriously wrong with the whole training and skill system. I know it is easier to drop in some twisted mechanic raher than correct the cause, as it prevents mass bittervet wailing and complaints that it is too easy and EVE is hard, and you meddling kids don't know what it was like in the 1900's But IF the problem is it takes forever to master basic support skills, then deal with the actual issue rather than invent some work around that hides the reasons. you honestly hit the bullseye with your comment, very well said and ccp seems to come up with this stupid alternative instead of saying ok they realize new players hate the slow training and waiting forever to get into skills/ships and so on. they need to face the reality.. leveling up in this game is boring as fawk! waiting forever to do something is also boring as fawk!.. everyone out there knows eve online means you're about to wait on online to do something.. bittervets are just going to be bitter.. but ccp needs to accept the wakeup call and fix the skills training part if they're already thinking of speeding up skills training for new folks.. just to gank them in skills once they sub, then it will have even a larger detrimental effect on retaining new players... ccp rise I hope you wake up with a hangover and realize that you will never retain new players coming up with this.. and oh yea... this comes out.. it means extra griefer tools more than ever which im sure ccp likes afterall.
new players can hate it all they want, leave for WoW, or appreciate the game as-is.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1692
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:26:13 -
[117] - Quote
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:Has CCP ****ing lost their minds? Permadeath? That will lose so many characters, be so badly exploited, you will lose players so fast!
If I lost Vulxanis permanently, I couldn't continue to play EVE. I just couldn't. My whole experience would be shattered. Nothing you can say will make that better if I lose my main.
And I won't be the only one. ESPECIALLY in the roleplaying community. digging up old threads aside...
You could try actually looking into it before spouting off whatever it was that just came out. Quick look would tell you:
A - its just a concept B - you wont lose any existing characters
...amongst other things |
Jed Dye
Quantum Pathways
3
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:06:02 -
[118] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:The idea is so bad, that the unforseen consequences would be hilarious! I swear with the ideas coming out of ccp lately, that the brain stormers must be hitting the shisha pipe pretty hard, because i just cannot understand why they have made half of these changes. Isn't it the idea to grow the playerbase instead of killing it off with outragious drastic changes ? We was averaging out at 45k-50k pilots peak time at one point... |
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
131
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:27:36 -
[119] - Quote
Jed Dye wrote:Solecist Project wrote:The idea is so bad, that the unforseen consequences would be hilarious! I swear with the ideas coming out of ccp lately, that the brain stormers must be hitting the shisha pipe pretty hard, because i just cannot understand why they have made half of these changes. Isn't it the idea to grow the playerbase instead of killing it off with outragious drastic changes ? We was averaging out at 45k-50k pilots peak time at one point...
Then they started tinkering and began the slow process of killing the goose.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
113
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Posted - 2014.11.19 01:17:56 -
[120] - Quote
Balrog Valarauko wrote:Anything that brings in loads of fresh meat and doesn't break the game for the existing player-base would be a good idea at this point.
IF they are smart about the limitations they place on free accounts and have real benefits for players that continue to subscribe, then F2P may be a great way to extend the life of this game.
CCP said sometime ago that EvE would not be F2P but that could change to keep EvE in the MMO market.
Who knows what is the future holds for F2P in EvE.
Only CCP knows the Future.
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
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