Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 08:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Instead of payments and values being dictated by two people selling and buying at some agreed upon amount, or being able to hire miners into a corporation and pay them, this setup showing people what their "value" is completely subverts market trade practices.
It makes it even harder to develop a Real and True mining corporation that functions the same as a real life corporation; the menial workers are paid least, the upper management are paid more, and all the rest of the profits go into growing the corporation and expansion.
If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves.
Now, we know a lot of mission runners get fleeced by selling their loot modules for 1-2 ISK when they're worth 10-20k ISK (as defined by the market, not any other metric), but that should be up to people to figure out, and much as I know many traders that are willing to go the extra step of setting a few systems up for buy orders on modules at a reasonable 25-50% of current average market value, it's all still should be in the hands of the two negotiating for the price instead of telling them that "X is worth Y" in a little corner so that they think they should get that every time.
The mining frig also displaced racial mining frigs and racial mining cruisers do to huge ore hold and great mining rate, thereby reducing the reliance of newer players on finding some hauler friends or a corp, and thus propagating a corps growth with a mutual mine/haul/trade-sell agreement.
The more people can do practically everything they want themselves, the smaller corporation margins become, because its difficult to compete with someone who can do it all themselves, as well as other corporations. There were so many old skills and old game mechanics in the past that supported individuals requiring diversity and assistance from joining a corp, and new ships, and trashing certain skills make it less and less worthwhile to create a corp to grow and spread it, let alone join one. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1604
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 08:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Uh, 1. Why should we be attempted to replicate the trickle down economy when economists all over the worlds are now 'discovering' it's actually a bad idea and stagnates the economy and doesn't actually work. 2. Why shouldn't they know approximately what their goods are worth on the market when there is instant communication across light years.
This all sounds like you just want slave labour and for said slave labour to feel grateful while never progressing. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17208
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 08:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves.
Yeah CCP. You're making it real hard to screw over our corpmates.
1mil isk per hour? Seriously? **** id pay them 50 to 100 times that to Awox your ***.
Split the hauls isk value evenly with the newbros and stop being a stingy highsec publord. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
WASPY69
Hard Knocks Inc. Irresponsible Use of Capital.
362
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 09:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
So basically you want to remove the estimated value so that you can screw over newbees for your own profit? Sounds like a great strategy to grow your corp. What you need to do to attract new players is pay them MORE than they would make solo. simple. Make corp mining OP's where no matter what ship you're in, Hulk, Venture, boosting Orca, Hauler etc.. you all get an equal split at the end. This will work wonders for attracting new players. (speaking from experience).
This would inspire people to have mining OP's as opposed to sitting in some dead end, in the ass end of nowhere system "solo mining" and never interacting with the corp.
You fail to see the bigger picture here. Less profit for you personally in the short term, yes. But, way more people joining your corp, giving you taxes which means in the long run you will make a huge profits. This signature intentionally left blank |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
328
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 09:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves. Yeah CCP. You're making it real hard to screw over our corpmates. 1mil isk per hour? Seriously? **** id pay them 50 to 100 times that to Awox your ***. Split the hauls isk value evenly with the newbros and stop being a stingy highsec publord.
For once I agree with you. |
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
8129
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 09:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like Battleships. Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!! |
ElSuerte Diego
Los Perros Hermanos
8
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 09:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
First, the estimated value the inventory window is pretty bad. AFIAK, it's some sort of universe wide rolling average and occasionally gives bad information. It's also been gamed in the past. It's situationally useful at best.
Second, you're missing something very big about running that type of mining corporation. You need to think of yourself as a factor instead of a traditional mining company. You're saving your low sp miners the time and expense of compression, transportation, market fees, arbitrage, and figuring out if the spot price is worth it. That all adds up to a non trivial amount of time and expense, especially if you have to duplicate it over several players. So you're saving your newbies a bunch of hassle and isk, as well as giving them cash up front for their ore, in exchange you're taking a few % off the top for your service. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4057
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 09:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:It makes it even harder to develop a Real and True mining corporation that functions the same as a real life corporation; the menial workers are paid least, the upper management are paid more, and all the rest of the profits go into growing the corporation and expansion. a social group in a computer game people play for fun is fundamentally different than a for-profit organisation in real life where people work for food |
Jegrey Dozer
Ruatha Holdings
36
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 10:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Now if we look closely we can see a scammer disguised as a miner! Wow! Natural selection and evolution really do make the weirdest things!
Oh wait, he said something! Let me just calibrate my whine-o-meter..and... AHA!
"My underlings figured my scam out and now they are selling under me because they can do basic maths!!1!!!1!"
"CCP change the game for MEEEEEEEEEEE" |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
11075
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 10:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nobody notices that this is a troll?
BESIDES the fact that she can't hire a miner into her corp ... ... because she has no corp.
Look at her name ... look at her face ... look at the topic ... ... read the damn text and put it together.
It's a very well executed trolling thread, though.
+1 for that. ^_^ I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, with sparkles of cinnamon on my skin. You are my content, my shiny content - you make me haaappy, when skies are greeeeyyy - you'll never know dear, how much I loooooove you - don't you take my content away! |
|
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
490
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 10:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
I for one support the OP. But first we need to lobotomize the average player in EVE to be able to work around the current mechanics. We don't need no dirty strong independent players of character in this game nope just people acting like wage slaves and such because "EVE is RealGäó".
So to conclude I demand that CCP lobotomize anyone who is currently playing except for me and the OP along with any new players joining. Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt! |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
162
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 11:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Nobody notices that this is a troll?
BESIDES the fact that she can't hire a miner into her corp ... ... because she has no corp.
Look at her name ... look at her face ... look at the topic ... ... read the damn text and put it together.
It's a very well executed trolling thread, though.
+1 for that. ^_^
Presumably its a forum alt....try to think a bit before posting, sol. |
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
46
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 11:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
You want to let other people work for you, so you can make more profit.
Eve is about teamwork:
You all should work togheter so all make more profit.
How you do this is by pypassing all the steps
Get miners Start a business Produce stuff Sell with triple the profit (2 shares for each, 1 share for the corp investments)
= all work togheter and togheter more isk
it is that simple |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
11075
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 11:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Nobody notices that this is a troll?
BESIDES the fact that she can't hire a miner into her corp ... ... because she has no corp.
Look at her name ... look at her face ... look at the topic ... ... read the damn text and put it together.
It's a very well executed trolling thread, though.
+1 for that. ^_^ Presumably its a forum alt....try to think a bit before posting, sol. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Trottel. :)
And that was the last I've seen of Veers, Grog, Zakken, Bamboozle and whatever character you make that are all pretty easy to spot, because you are one gigantic VollTrottel. :) I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, with sparkles of cinnamon on my skin. You are my content, my shiny content - you make me haaappy, when skies are greeeeyyy - you'll never know dear, how much I loooooove you - don't you take my content away! |
Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5777
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 11:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves.
Good, they're better off. Stop trying to use newbies for your own personal gain, especially on a video game. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:If I say to a miner "hey come join this corp, you work for us and we give you 500,000 isk for 30 minutes of mining in your low SP new character ship" and they see that their "average value" is 800,000, they say "screw you" because they feel they can profit better from mining and hauling it to market and selling it themselves. Yeah CCP. You're making it real hard to screw over our corpmates. 1mil isk per hour? Seriously? **** id pay them 50 to 100 times that to Awox your ***. Split the hauls isk value evenly with the newbros and stop being a stingy highsec publord.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Uh, 1. Why should we be attempted to replicate the trickle down economy when economists all over the worlds are now 'discovering' it's actually a bad idea and stagnates the economy and doesn't actually work. 2. Why shouldn't they know approximately what their goods are worth on the market when there is instant communication across light years.
This all sounds like you just want slave labour and for said slave labour to feel grateful while never progressing.
How do you think corporations function in real life to grow into the powerhouses that they do? There's not enough facepalms for you. |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
254
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
TLDR: You're idea is stupid and you're probably trolling.
Long Version:
Estimated value is a newer feature, it never used to exist. Prior to it's existence, what you are asking still didn't happen. Removing it would not change things to this little picture you've built up in your head.
The difference between EVE and RL isn't that people don't know the estimated values of their work. (A guy that works in a brewery knows how much the bottles of beer sell for), the difference is that the little guy isn't capable of making a marketable product by himself, hell he can't even farm the hops by himself.
In EVE, you can, as a 1d old player, I can mine minerals and build a frigate after refining those minerals. sure it'll be as inefficient as hell, but I can do it.
What you really want, is a system which allows groups/organisations to have something of value to offer its members, and in return, the members have something of value to offer the corporation.
Right now in eve, the most common form of this symbiotic relationship is:
- I offer you PvP fleets and help replace your ships, you offer me your time and focused skill progress to benefit the group
some industrialist groups may offer access to blueprints to members in exchange for their time, or perhaps refining services, I'll refine your minerals for you at perfect skills/rep and I keep 4%, you keep the rest, we both do better out of it.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6874
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
0% .-+ ` ' / -+. 100% Derp Level of thread.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Okay, are you a floor person in best buy? Go demand equal pay to the CEO and after you get fired from there, go to any other job and demand it. Let's see how long it takes.
Any company in RL is also a symbiotic relationship. That doesn't mean that people higher up and the company itself doesn't make much more than the individuals. Are you trying to tell me that all minimum wage jobs are exploitation? Because if so, please, tell the rest of the world. |
Serene Repose
1557
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Soooooo funny. The "menial" workers are paid less 'cause the "more important" workers decide the pay scale. Naturally, they just HAVE to be paid MORE, since they're using MATH and not doing any actual WORK. (Thus proving how truly clever they must be!) The "rest" of the money, the so-called "capital" goes to CEO bonuses. Any "growth" of course comes from government subsidies and loans that will never be paid back. THIS we call "modern day capitalism."
I have no idea what book the OP was reading. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á |
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 22:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Soooooo funny. The "menial" workers are paid less 'cause the "more important" workers decide the pay scale. Naturally, they just HAVE to be paid MORE, since they're using MATH and not doing any actual WORK. (Thus proving how truly clever they must be!) The "rest" of the money, the so-called "capital" goes to CEO bonuses. Any "growth" of course comes from government subsidies and loans that will never be paid back. THIS we call "modern day capitalism."
I have no idea what book the OP was reading.
Would we have any of the modern conviences available to people today without Ford and other such companies? Anyway, you're missing the point. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
1222
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 22:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Im posting in this thread just because. I read the op. and well....... What is your point really? Seriously? They put that in there for people to get a valuation of how much stuff they are carrying around and maybe take a moment to think Maybe I shouldnt haul that much all at once. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1562
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 22:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Estimated value in Eve equals looking up what a product costs at various webshops and taking the average in real life. I don't see the problem. Or how this stat is linked to Eve not being a mirror of our economy. If it were, my boss would probably outsource me to a rival and make me shoot their server. It makes no sense. |
Yolandar
Estrogen Industrial Enterprises
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 22:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote: blah-blah, yada-yada.
I am a mule miner, it's what I do. Alot. And I'd never join your corp.
I run my own 1-man-corp, and I sell my wares to local industrialists for fair prices. They even offer me SRP and ship discounts, plus free rigs and crystals. I am not even in their bloody corp, and they treat me way better than you treat your own.
Hope you get awoxed. |
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face FEARLESS.
3761
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 23:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
The opportunity to exploit these so called estimated values is far more profitable than trying to cheat some noobs into working for a pittance.
There is no problem here, just stop exploiting new players. Potential Wardec incoming if I can be bothered. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 01:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Excuse yourselves. I do not set up regional 0.01 ISK buy orders on ore or minerals. You talk a lot about exploiting them, but if two people are doing work, why should one person do it for free? I think 50% is more than fair. If someone sell's a weapon module on market after pulling it from a misson run, they're lucky to get 50%. Often it is 0.01 regional buy ISKers who cheat newbies out of it, and where are your anger at them? I don't see you guys up in arms going onto trading alts and spending time making 50%+ regional buy orders for weapon modules, because you can't be assed.
You talk a good talk about being so indignant, but there's so many buy orders for 0.01ISK from minerals and salvage to modules, and you guys haven't spent the time making it so unprofitable for them that they quit. Why would anyone, RL or EveO, buy something at wholesale cost to turn around and sell it at wholesale cost? I think it is you people who are greedy, yet comparing me to some sort of scammer like the aforementioned 0.01 ISkers?! How Dare you! |
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face FEARLESS.
3761
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 01:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself there. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 01:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Not one bit. I ran bantams and Osprey back when those were the new starting mining ships, and you were lucky to get 300-500k an hour selling ore in back corners of mining areas that haven't been overrun by competing miners. I'm offering double that for people to make instant profits from their own work and these responses are what happen.
Lady Spank wrote:The opportunity to exploit these so called estimated values is far more profitable than trying to cheat some noobs into working for a pittance. .
Yolandar wrote:
I am a mule miner, it's what I do. Alot. And I'd never join your corp. Hope you get awoxed.
Remiel Pollard wrote: Good, they're better off. Stop trying to use newbies for your own personal gain, especially on a video game.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
This all sounds like you just want slave labour and for said slave labour to feel grateful while never progressing.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Yeah CCP. You're making it real hard to screw over our corpmates.
1mil isk per hour? Seriously? **** id pay them 50 to 100 times that to Awox your ***.
Split the hauls isk value evenly with the newbros and stop being a stingy highsec publord.
Either these people are just being trollish or they're seriously deluded and indignant. |
Yolandar
Estrogen Industrial Enterprises
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 03:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:
Either these people are just being trollish or they're seriously out of touch with mining and hauling as a newbie player and venting their unrealistic indignation.
Okay, lets be constructive eh.
I mine about 750,000 units of veldspar per hour, so we'll use that. At low buy rate of 15isk/unit, thats 11.25M isk/h. (if the corp adds orca booster, thats 30% more)
You wanna pay 1M isk/h?
Even a nooby venture can pull in over 2M isk/h. And a barge is 10 days training to get into.
You give that barge & fit for free, skillbooks and SRP too? You gonna offer that for a newbro? |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
55
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 03:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Soooooo funny. The "menial" workers are paid less 'cause the "more important" workers decide the pay scale. Naturally, they just HAVE to be paid MORE, since they're using MATH and not doing any actual WORK. (Thus proving how truly clever they must be!) The "rest" of the money, the so-called "capital" goes to CEO bonuses. Any "growth" of course comes from government subsidies and loans that will never be paid back. THIS we call "modern day capitalism."
I have no idea what book the OP was reading. Would we have any of the modern conviences available to people today without Ford and other such companies? Anyway, you're missing the point.
LOL, Ford had to fight the big conglomerates to just get his company off the ground. He made sure he built products that were affordable, and presented his workers the pay they needed to buy those finished goods. He even further went to build a medical facility for them...........
Ole Mr. Henry was a pioneer against monopolies and he treated his people well....better than those who simply wanted slave labor...I think you better check your historical facts....not to mention your obviously not in the same category as he was. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |