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Aladar Dangerface
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
14
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Posted - 2014.10.19 09:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
So how we all feeling about these? Looking forward to the new meta? Will this bring people back into whs? There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
1934
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Posted - 2014.10.19 10:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's a positive step that should help the wormhole economy and attract new players.
I'm more interested to learn what this means for T3 cruisers. If they could swap roles on the fly like this, it could be interesting. +1 |
Aladar Dangerface
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
14
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Posted - 2014.10.19 10:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:It's a positive step that should help the wormhole economy and attract new players.
I'm more interested to learn what this means for T3 cruisers. If they could swap roles on the fly like this, it could be interesting.
Yes, I think we will just have to wait until they announce how they are gona fix t3 cruisers. At least frig holes are not completely useless now There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. |
Winthorp
2810
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Posted - 2014.10.19 10:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have been nagging Corbexx endlessly on skype about this (poor guy). I am in two minds on this as i see the massive downside to them overlooking rebalancing/fixing T3 cruisers. With the new destroyers not looking to be released for a little while i don't have any optimism left that they are currently working on T3 cruisers or looking to work on them in the near future, that ship has sailed i think.
I am still gratefull however that WH's will get a buff income increase with the new destroyer having its resources coming from existing T3 products.
I am bittersweet on this one... |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
951
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Posted - 2014.10.19 11:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Could be the new tech 3 destroyers are a new view on how to use tech 3, and if successful they might incorporate that knowledge into balancing tech 3 cruisers.
I feel one of the major issues of balancing tech 3 cruisers is that there exists no other ship that can be so flexible as them, thereby lacking any frame of reference to check what they should do. The result of the YC116 Sleeper data research race! A summary of the ancient civilizations of New Eden |
Aladar Dangerface
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
14
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Posted - 2014.10.19 12:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:Could be the new tech 3 destroyers are a new view on how to use tech 3, and if successful they might incorporate that knowledge into balancing tech 3 cruisers.
I feel one of the major issues of balancing tech 3 cruisers is that there exists no other ship that can be so flexible as them, thereby lacking any frame of reference to check what they should do.
That was my thoughts also. Kinda what they said of the new deployables in that they could use the code for reworking pos's. They can us the t3 desto's as a template for how to fix t3 cruisers.
Oh and we need to come up with a new name for this type of ship since we cant call them t3s^* There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
267
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Posted - 2014.10.19 12:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:Oh and we need to come up with a new name for this type of ship since we cant call them t3s^* D3's?
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
778
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Posted - 2014.10.19 13:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is the main testing bed for the future of t3's. Currently ccp really does not have much control over them. They can't regulate its speed, tank, dps, fittings, or stats without everybody calling it a flat out nerf.
If they introduce "stances", essentially ccp can base stat the t3 cruisers, and instead of having mega extremes, forces the users to choose a stance which enhances its base stats. It basically means no more 800+ dps proteus with a 100,000 tank, or a neut legion with a 200,000 tank, or 100mn tengu's. What this does mean is that the player has more micro control over their ship to deal with the situation at the time, and ccp can gain some control over the t3.
Need to get closer, switch to speed, need to tank more alpha, switch to defense, all out dos, switch to offense. The concept is very sound and makes t3's a bit more tactile.
But the base stats will go down, but their stance stats will probably be higher than they are currently. It is a bit of a gamble, because if ccp does go that way, that means they will probably get rid of subsystems entirely, and roll in the subsystem material costs into the base construction of the ship, making the ship take more materials to build, and making building them a bit more simple. Doing this then allows ccp to begin creating new ship sets. Will it work, depends, but I believe it will. Yaay!!!! |
Aladar Dangerface
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
14
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Posted - 2014.10.19 14:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:Oh and we need to come up with a new name for this type of ship since we cant call them t3s^* D3's?
D3's, i like it, short and sweet.
Updated my title of this post with it already :) There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
847
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Posted - 2014.10.19 14:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Not sure really.
One of the things that has kept me playing the game is the almost endless possibilities for configuring t3 cruisers - its almost like building a character in itself. These fall way short of that and I don't want to see it used as a template for t3 changes.
I think I'm gonna hear the crysis "maximum armour", etc. announce in my head changing modes in a D3. |
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Brazilian Dream
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.10.19 15:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
T3s are so classy and awesomely fun to mess around with I spend hours switching their subs in order to achieve different fits. .. Don't want them changed, sorry. I like these new dessies, just don't want their T3ness applied to my Legion. (Sorry for NPC posting I'm too lazy to switch back to the old forum shaitposter) |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
229
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm on the fence. While dessies were neglected for a while, I don't like the way they changed them. One of the biggest things that balanced destroyer's 7-8 highslots was the lowish PG/CPU. To me this smells like it's going to follow the T3+Guard doctrine being the end-all doctrine of WH roams, and I'm hoping that I'm dead wrong. With the last few patches and WH events, I can't shake the feeling that nobody in CCP lives in WHs or bothered to talk to anyone in wh space about what they want to see happen. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
724
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Posted - 2014.10.19 16:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm looking forward to increased activity in wspace as people seek to capitalize on new hull manufacturin . As we as the boost to income because it'll draw more pilots.
Also 3 pilots with dessie 5 so I got that going for me which is nice.
Overall balance of t3 looming in the distance does still concern me. I must echo Roff on the point that I'd not like the reduction in fitting complexities to existing t3 cruisers.
I'm right behind you |
Jestor's Testor
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2014.10.19 18:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
It looks like an elite ship entry level so newer people can enjoy lower leet powered ships in the chain...
I support this for the most part...
Another step in the ladder that makes you feel accomplished...
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
779
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here is a viable question... Can they covops cloak?
And if they can't'.. Will they suck? Yaay!!!! |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
152
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
I would rather call them tri-stroyers since they have 3 modes. I hope this will get more people into w-space! |
Agatir Solenth
Servants of the Throne Worlds
24
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Posted - 2014.10.19 22:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Had they done this to BS instead of destroyers, I would of been excited. This doesn't do a lot for an older SP player. It will give a small bump Wspace income potential. Again BSs would have done more for that too. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
720
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Posted - 2014.10.19 23:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2jmw7j/tech_3_destroyers_coming/ for those that don't google stuff...
Sounds pretty terrible:
Black Holes will wreck your strategy unless they release the one and only good (read: lml-using) dessi. Pulsars: can't fight cause sigbloom rendering your tank nonexistant. Like a pulsar does to all - ALL - frigs. Cataclysmic: Good luck finding the one group of derpheads you can actually break wolf rayet: waste of time, use something with light missiles instead. Alternatively, field dessis against light missiles mkay.
So, expecting the worst from CCP, there will be one LML-bonused T3 dessi to wreck all of the things, and a bunch of other, utterly useless hangarqueens - besides the gallente one cause that one will end up having sufficient structure HP to develop an armortank with acceptable ehp through armor+hull/dcu. Well played. In addition, they'll be 100% inferior to assault frigs cause the two important values you got on that level (sigradius, buffer) are both - expecting the power creep - most likely to be barely better than t1 according to an earlier power level scheme.
So what would be useful: sample gallente destroyer - 6h 3m 4l - catalyst dps, eris resists, slightly more structure hp, massive projection boni. what ccp will hand to us - borked layout with 2 mids, 3 lows but look it has good hullboni and you got those three modes and 8 highs to fit 8 guns! - totally ignoring that weapon hardpoint highs really don't count besides the effective resulting turrets (looking at you, ferox, maelstrom, rokh, RNI with your wasted highrack combobreaker - and effectively handing us a catalyst without dps or significant fitting choices and all dem wasted oppurtunities again, but look it can flap and tell jokes, or switch modes w/e.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Winthorp
2810
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Posted - 2014.10.20 00:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2jmw7j/tech_3_destroyers_coming/ for those that don't google stuff...
Sounds pretty terrible:
Black Holes will wreck your strategy unless they release the one and only good (read: lml-using) dessi. Pulsars: can't fight cause sigbloom rendering your tank nonexistant. Like a pulsar does to all - ALL - frigs. Cataclysmic: Good luck finding the one group of derpheads you can actually break wolf rayet: waste of time, use something with light missiles instead. Alternatively, field dessis against light missiles mkay.
So, expecting the worst from CCP, there will be one LML-bonused T3 dessi to wreck all of the things, and a bunch of other, utterly useless hangarqueens - besides the gallente one cause that one will end up having sufficient structure HP to develop an armortank with acceptable ehp through armor+hull/dcu. Well played. In addition, they'll be 100% inferior to assault frigs cause the two important values you got on that level (sigradius, buffer) are both - expecting the power creep - most likely to be barely better than t1 according to an earlier power level scheme.
So what would be useful: sample gallente destroyer - 6h 3m 4l - catalyst dps, eris resists, slightly more structure hp, massive projection boni. what ccp will hand to us - borked layout with 2 mids, 3 lows but look it has good hullboni and you got those three modes and 8 highs to fit 8 guns! - totally ignoring that weapon hardpoint highs really don't count besides the effective resulting turrets (looking at you, ferox, maelstrom, rokh, RNI with your wasted highrack combobreaker - and effectively handing us a catalyst without dps or significant fitting choices and all dem wasted oppurtunities again, but look it can flap and tell jokes, or switch modes w/e.
This guy gets it, i dont at all see them becoming useful in WH space. They will only get used in LS and Null honestly not that that is a bad thing as it drives demand.
People saying that this will bring people into WH space to build the hulls are incorrect also as most builders build everything in hs with buying mats from jita.
The only good side to this for WH space is the base buff to salvage price increases that will come from this and those reaction farms in C1's the odd pos in inhabited home systems.
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Angsty Teenager
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
605
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Posted - 2014.10.20 04:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Any new frigs I am ok with, frig pvp is p sweet.
They won't be used at all in w-space, but w/e. |
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Mister Tuggles
Faceless Men
111
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Posted - 2014.10.20 10:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:This is the main testing bed for the future of t3's. Currently ccp really does not have much control over them. They can't regulate its speed, tank, dps, fittings, or stats without everybody calling it a flat out nerf.
If they introduce "stances", essentially ccp can base stat the t3 cruisers, and instead of having mega extremes, forces the users to choose a stance which enhances its base stats. It basically means no more 800+ dps proteus with a 100,000 tank, or a neut legion with a 200,000 tank, or 100mn tengu's. What this does mean is that the player has more micro control over their ship to deal with the situation at the time, and ccp can gain some control over the t3.
Need to get closer, switch to speed, need to tank more alpha, switch to defense, all out dos, switch to offense. The concept is very sound and makes t3's a bit more tactile.
But the base stats will go down, but their stance stats will probably be higher than they are currently. It is a bit of a gamble, because if ccp does go that way, that means they will probably get rid of subsystems entirely, and roll in the subsystem material costs into the base construction of the ship, making the ship take more materials to build, and making building them a bit more simple. Doing this then allows ccp to begin creating new ship sets. Will it work, depends, but I believe it will.
How they will wrangle in the cloaking subsystems, the resistance subsystems and the ewar subsystems is another matter.
I think the problem with doing this blanket approach to the current t3 cruisers is that we have had them for so long. They have basically become a staple of WH life, and many other places in Eve. If CCP decides to just throw a blanket fix that allows them to get rid of subs, etc, and turn it in to a one click to rule them all type thing it will cause a huge disturbance in the community. I know I would be pretty pissed off if t3 cruisers were turned into what the t3 destroyers sounds like they are going to be.
Look at it from this prospective: If they were to do this to the current t3s they would need to have 5+ modes to switch between. 1) Prober (2) Cloaker (3) Booster (4) Tank (5) DPS.
The current t3's work right now as they are able to do things that no other ships can. They can change their roles on the fly, and fill multiple roles within one set of subs. Cloaky probing exploration, cloaky tanked heavy dps, tanked ewar, booster, etc, etc, etc.
Start changing this around and you are going to have a mass exodus from WH's, and probably the game. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
783
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 10:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tuggles. What I proposed is pure theory. We don't know yet what will happen Yaay!!!! |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
675
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 10:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Subs are surely not going to be removed from T3 cruisers, that would be madness. Rebalance, okay, but the existing T3 system is way too good and interesting to just throw it out. I don't mind a new approach with the destroyers though, even though any destroyer will probably be quite useless in wspace. . |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
129
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Posted - 2014.10.20 11:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
That is probably the reason why we have strategic cruisers and tactical destroyers. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
722
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 12:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:If they introduce "stances", essentially ccp can base stat the t3 cruisers, and instead of having mega extremes, forces the users to choose a stance which enhances its base stats. It basically means no more 800+ dps proteus with a 100,000 tank, or a neut legion with a 200,000 tank, or 100mn tengu's. What this does mean is that the player has more micro control over their ship to deal with the situation at the time, and ccp can gain some control over the t3.
You could solve 90% of the overpowered aspect by temporarily removing buffersubs from the game. What remains would be a crappy, overpriced CS. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
783
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:That is probably the reason why we have strategic cruisers and tactical destroyers.
and if CCP decides to rename them into Tactical Cruisers....
Just saying :-) Yaay!!!! |
Levina Windstar
Mekalon Industry
35
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
I don't have the source, but I think I read/heard somewhere way earlier this year that CCP was actually going to "rebalance" T3 cruiser at the end of this year. Seing these new T3 destroyer coming, I don't think they plan on doing much stuff on the cruiser yet. Meaby one day...
One thing that I am concern is the skills. Will there be new one? Will it be noob friendly as oppose to T3 cruiser?
I don't think that it will actually bring more ppl into WH tho. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
783
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Levina Windstar wrote:I don't have the source, but I think I read/heard somewhere way earlier this year that CCP was actually going to "rebalance" T3 cruiser at the end of this year. Seing these new T3 destroyer coming, I don't think they plan on doing much stuff on the cruiser yet. Meaby one day...
One thing that I am concern is the skills. Will there be new one? Will it be noob friendly as oppose to T3 cruiser?
I don't think that it will actually bring more ppl into WH tho.
It really REALLY depends. There is 0 information on them atm except that they exist. Yaay!!!! |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
268
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Posted - 2014.10.20 13:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:I have been nagging Corbexx endlessly on skype about this (poor guy). I am in two minds on this as i see the massive downside to them overlooking rebalancing/fixing T3 cruisers. With the new destroyers not looking to be released for a little while i don't have any optimism left that they are currently working on T3 cruisers or looking to work on them in the near future, that ship has sailed i think.
I am still gratefull however that WH's will get a buff income increase with the new destroyer having its resources coming from existing T3 products.
I am bittersweet on this one...
I do not think that the T3 Destroyers indicate that the Cruiser balance pass fell by the wayside. I think this Destroyers probably sprang out of the balancing work on the Cruisers. At most, I'd say that the Destroyers are a minor distraction from the Cruisers. They may even be a test platform for work planned for the Cruisers.
When I think about the thought I put into just fitting a T3 Cruiser, I can imagine balancing them and making each subsystem as relevant and useful as the others being a very involved task. I'd rather have it done well than have it done quickly. I understand the need to step away from big tasks and welcome the result of that distraction. Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
Abraham Nalelmir
Probe Patrol
38
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Posted - 2014.10.20 13:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Might be a good change to get more people into WHs, sure many people manufacture stuff in highsec, but someone got to go and get them the required materials from a wormhole system and sell them in Jita...
With the extra demand, there are 3 possibilities that might happen:
- Either more new people get into wormholes to get those required materials (which is really awesome and I hope it will happen).
- Or the existing WH entities will step up and take that chance to get more better income
- Or, new entities will get in wormholes, resulting reduced income for existing PVP oriented entities, thus creating more conflicts or resources and sites.
What will be the result I think it will be known when we see the first image of the T3 destroyers. In Go.. ECM I trust |
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