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Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
39
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Posted - 2014.10.20 09:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be? |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
63
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Posted - 2014.10.20 10:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
You mean other then incursion ships costing several billion isk each exploding every day because even with the highly well sorted fleets with grade A logi pilots and baller FCs who have their running down to a science?
Hell my crappy DDD ship (crappy railgu which i designed to be as cheap as i could get away with) costs a billion+ isk...
From my understanding plex prices are this high because faction warfare became a good money making prospect (thats what the former professor of economics said) and simply because people will pay the cost of plex no matter what the cost is.
And of course then there is the odd interaction between plex prices and supply, the supply of plex is determined by the sale price, say i want to buy a MOM (dont know why i would want to but say i do) and i decide to plex the entire thing... I need to sell LESS plexxes if the price is high, which means supply becomes more limited if prices go up. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
187
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Posted - 2014.10.20 10:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes they should. No they won't. Yes its ridiculous. No there's nothing you can do. Travelling at the speed of love. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
164
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Posted - 2014.10.20 10:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bl1SkR1N wrote:As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?
That's a pretty funny argument..... Incursions (which produce less than 1/3 of the ISK bounties do) are responsible for Plex inflation. Let's try to reason this one out.....imagine incursions really were this massive ISK faucet that was flooding Eve with easy ISK....so what would we expect? Plex inflation? Sure. How about ships/mods? Oh wait, they would need to inflate by the EXACT SAME AMOUNT AS PLEX DOES because resources are just as scarce as they used to be.
Now let's see what is actually happening....Plex inflating...yep....ships/mods? Nope, in fact they are DEFLATING. Conclusion - The problem isn't ISK faucets - the problem is too much/too easy mining flooding eve with cheap resources which is inflating Plex while deflating ships/mods. So the OP's argument is a giant fail.
Which gets us to the real topic here - the hatred the nullsec "elite pvp" folks have towards collaborative and profitable PvE in highsec. The idea that people can actually work together in Eve to do PvE, and not to shoot other players, is just agonizing to a lot o folks. Apparently any playstyle that doesn't revolve around tears/carnage/hurting people is somehow illegitimate and needs to be nerfed.
If anything incursions, which are one of the few in game activities that don't reward dysfunctional and anti-social behavior, should get a big buff, with the nerf bat hitting suicide ganking, mining, scamming, etc....
Incursions are already dangerous enough with the massive dps on grid and incursion ships exploding right and left, not to mention all the time spent moving, the early mom popping, and the time waiting to get a fleet up. So no, nerfs are definitely not needed, but buffs surely are. |
Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.10.20 10:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:You mean other then incursion ships costing several billion isk each exploding every day because even with the highly well sorted fleets with grade A logi pilots and baller FCs who have their running down to a science?
But Incursions werent designed to be flown in glass cannons costing several billions, they can be done in T2 fit as well ... that your problem you spend so much money on ships you dont need, so dont argue by something you do even trough you dont need to ... |
Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic The Big Dirty
84
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Posted - 2014.10.20 10:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bl1SkR1N wrote:As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?
Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk".
Have you seen the losses incurred by some people during incursions? GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
715
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Posted - 2014.10.20 10:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?
I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?
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Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.10.20 11:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lucrii Dei wrote:Bl1SkR1N wrote:As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be? Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk". Have you seen the losses incurred by some people during incursions?
But its only problem of those ppl who lost such expensive ships ... nobody forced them to fly that fit ... |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
164
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Posted - 2014.10.20 11:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zmikund wrote:Lucrii Dei wrote:Bl1SkR1N wrote:As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be? Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk". Have you seen the losses incurred by some people during incursions? But its only problem of those ppl who lost such expensive ships ... nobody forced them to fly that fit ...
To make reasonable isk/hour given the amount of effort involved you basically need to use blinged out ships. Otherwise you are much better off running L4s, mining, etc..... |
Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
26
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Posted - 2014.10.20 11:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1 I do wish there were less faucets in High security. The issue i believe isn't against incursions or their team gameplay, but rather of where that gameplay takes place. |
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
63
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Posted - 2014.10.20 11:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zmikund wrote:FireFrenzy wrote:You mean other then incursion ships costing several billion isk each exploding every day because even with the highly well sorted fleets with grade A logi pilots and baller FCs who have their running down to a science? But Incursions werent designed to be flown in glass cannons costing several billions, they can be done in T2 fit as well ... that your problem you spend so much money on ships you dont need, so dont argue by something you do even trough you dont need to ...
Sure, in theory that is entirely possible. The problem with that is that that is actively disincentive. The mechanics say you want (in an ideal world) 20 vindicators, 10 nightmares (my machariel isnt ideal) 3 basilisks (2 might even be ideal now), 7 scimis and a t3. Because that projects maximum damage over the ranges involved. And while we (WTM T-badge FC full disclosure) and the further you stray from that ideal the lower isk/hour is for the whole fleet. And while i love flying kitchen sink fleets if you get contested every site because your fleet cant keep up with the perfect fleetcomp driven by another group and NO ONE in the fleet is making ANY money you see how the whole Pith a single invul 4 faction tracking computer faction heatsinks several billion isk meta is what the mechanics incentivise.
I dont fly a 3 billion isk mach because i WANT TO i fly it because it means i might actually get paid in busy systems. And yeah we fit less tank then we could fit, but in a system that only cares about maximal damage output would you fit differently? |
PewpewPatricia
Servitus Solo United Manufacturing and Technology Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.10.20 11:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Zmikund wrote:Lucrii Dei wrote:Bl1SkR1N wrote:As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be? Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk". Have you seen the losses incurred by some people during incursions? But its only problem of those ppl who lost such expensive ships ... nobody forced them to fly that fit ... To make reasonable isk/hour given the amount of effort involved you basically need to use blinged out ships. Otherwise you are much better off running L4s, mining, etc.....
Incursions scale so much better with isboxing though. 12 accounts will easily make you 1b/hour with little effort beyond the initial investment. I have no issues watching a show on my third screen or whatever while doing them. I guess it probably drives plex prices up slightly, as pretty much everyone isboxing will plex the accounts (takes about 10 hours to plex all accounts). |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
63
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Posted - 2014.10.20 11:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
True, but not everyone HAS or even WANTS 10+ account...
BUT about my own posts: I was speaking more for the specifics i am familiar with, which is the 40 man fleet with 40 people in it. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
722
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bl1SkR1N wrote:As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be?
Fine, but on the same page, remove all gates from DED sites in low/null. It's ridiculous how there are ungankable pve-locations in null. You can gank highsec incursions, but you can't do squat about someone running a 10/10, unless afk. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13692
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lucrii Dei wrote:
Much like income from renting out space is the source of "a tonne of easy and safe isk".
A few bil a month ranting out bad space is hardly a fortune. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
39
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Posted - 2014.10.20 13:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Bl1SkR1N wrote:As title says, they are source of tons of easy and safe isk. Probably one of the main factors for plex price going so high. Bring some trade-off into them. Isn't that how eve should be? Fine, but on the same page, remove all gates from DED sites in low/null. It's ridiculous how there are ungankable pve-locations in null. You can gank highsec incursions, but you can't do squat about someone running a 10/10, unless afk.
Well you can go in, chase him away, take the loot and laught at him |
Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
39
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?
I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?
ofcourse there is button for search but that would remove feel of drama making for me.
And no its something absolutly different. Pretend i skip part where i compare dangers in null and high sec. Big groups of hundreds of players can make isk in null...yeah but in high sec you can make billions with iskboxer running 10nightmares or similiar crap and make more isk with no real presure. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
164
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bl1SkR1N wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?
I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?
ofcourse there is button for search but that would remove feel of drama making for me. And no its something absolutly different. Pretend i skip part where i compare dangers in null and high sec. Big groups of hundreds of players can make isk in null...yeah but in high sec you can make billions with iskboxer running 10nightmares or similiar crap and make more isk with no real presure.
As opposed to AFK Carrier ratting in renterland or WH escalations which are just soooooo dangerous? Fact of the matter is that nullsec rewards already significantly exceed those of highsec. People run incursions because they are FUN, not because it's the max isk/hour or any nonsense like that. If it bothers you that much (and that's a kind of crazy thing to worry about) go suicide gank them. But this crazy force everyone into nullsec agenda is thankfully never going to be adopted by CCP. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
715
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bl1SkR1N wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?
I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?
ofcourse there is button for search but that would remove feel of drama making for me. And no its something absolutly different. Pretend i skip part where i compare dangers in null and high sec. Big groups of hundreds of players can make isk in null...yeah but in high sec you can make billions with iskboxer running 10nightmares or similiar crap and make more isk with no real presure.
Many say the same about ratting in the blue doughnut...the issue then is ISBoxer not the incursions themselves which in many cases work as intended. If someone who doesn't like ISBoxer fleets feels the urge I'm sure they could wreak havoc with a cheap ecm ship playing some random ecm effects across the fleet :D |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
827
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
PLEX need to go above 1B. I want to see them at 1.5B at some point. That will be fun times.
People then start to properly sub their accounts again and don't need to grind ISK as much anymore, which will result in an a lot more relaxed environment in the game. |
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
48
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Posted - 2014.10.20 14:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:PLEX need to go above 1B. I want to see them at 1.5B at some point. That will be fun times. People then start to properly sub their accounts again and don't need to grind ISK as much anymore, which will result in an a lot more relaxed environment in the game.
I believe you have the core of the issue here.
Another thought, since the market as a general whole are not going up but plex prices are soaring, maybe it is because of a shortage of plex?
Maybe the plexes themselves are an ISK faucet with people buying and selling as high as they can push them?
To those who complain about losing ships in Incursions I have no sympathy for you, suck it up take less ISK and add logi and more DPS to your fleets, I ran incursions for about 3 months when they first came out in fleets with all tech 2 fit ships and we NEVER lost a single ship. If you are seeing ships pop around you in these then it is your own fault for being greedy and not willing to share with the few extra players that would prevent these losses. Needless to say I completely reject your "we need the ISK to replace ships" argument. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13692
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 14:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
As opposed to AFK Carrier ratting in renterland or WH escalations which are just soooooo dangerous? Fact of the matter is that nullsec rewards already significantly exceed those of highsec. People run incursions because they are FUN, not because it's the max isk/hour or any nonsense like that. If it bothers you that much (and that's a kind of crazy thing to worry about) go suicide gank them. But this crazy force everyone into nullsec agenda is thankfully never going to be adopted by CCP.
Why do you continue to lie given that it is so easy to find the numbers of how much can be earned doing each and every activity? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
158
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Bl1SkR1N wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Another nerf incursions thread? Did they remove the search function over the weekend?
I have no problem with people earning isk by running sites in highly organized fleets. Isn't that the exact same argument nullsec use for the vast riches they gather out in lawless space?
ofcourse there is button for search but that would remove feel of drama making for me. And no its something absolutly different. Pretend i skip part where i compare dangers in null and high sec. Big groups of hundreds of players can make isk in null...yeah but in high sec you can make billions with iskboxer running 10nightmares or similiar crap and make more isk with no real presure. As opposed to AFK Carrier ratting in renterland or WH escalations which are just soooooo dangerous? Fact of the matter is that nullsec rewards already significantly exceed those of highsec. People run incursions because they are FUN, not because it's the max isk/hour or any nonsense like that. If it bothers you that much (and that's a kind of crazy thing to worry about) go suicide gank them. But this crazy force everyone into nullsec agenda is thankfully never going to be adopted by CCP.
Have you ever lived in nullsec before? If not, it's not the fountain of wealth that people claim. Running anomalies is only marginally better for farming isk than level four missions, and anomalies are the method through which most players, at least in my alliance, derive thier liquid isk.
Carrier ratting isn't what most people think it is.
Neither is local nullsec industry.
Or exploration. Anything that you do in nullsec incurs the risk of losing your ship, no matter how careful you think you are. Isk per hour, none of the professions generates significantly more than anything you can do in highsec, and any activity that requires you to move goods in or out of highsec has the additional headache of either waiting for a wormhole, training a jf, or risking a blockade runner.
That's why I use this character. NPC corp. Can do anything I need in highsec. I could do it in null, but I don't, because I make just as much in high. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
165
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
As opposed to AFK Carrier ratting in renterland or WH escalations which are just soooooo dangerous? Fact of the matter is that nullsec rewards already significantly exceed those of highsec. People run incursions because they are FUN, not because it's the max isk/hour or any nonsense like that. If it bothers you that much (and that's a kind of crazy thing to worry about) go suicide gank them. But this crazy force everyone into nullsec agenda is thankfully never going to be adopted by CCP.
Why do you continue to lie given that it is so easy to find the numbers of how much can be earned doing each and every activity?
And yet somehow, despite the claimed poverty of nullsec, your organization manages to field a massive supercapital fleet and offers a 200% SRP program. Apparently people are finding ways to make isk, whether it is by ratting, anomalies, market manipulation, scamming, etc.... And as usual your ire is focused on the few hundred people, many of them career highsec folks like myself, who choose to run incursions for the enjoyment and the isk. We are to believe that what is broken in the game isn't the blue donut, the afk ratting/mining, the bots, the griefing, the scamming, etc.... No, what is breaking the game is a few hundred people running incursions in highsec and enjoying it (and yet market prices are still declining), because the nullsec/suicide ganker folks can't get their rocks off blowing up their ships, pissing them off, and getting them to quit the game. It's not enough to be able to kill miners and haulers, you need to be able to kill everyone else in highsec too! |
elitatwo
Congregatio
373
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
A while back people said level 4 too hard, make nerf.. (I said no)
CCP -> nerf level 4 and make level 5 yeay
Now people say, level 4 too boring, make more interesting (I said, I told you so..)
CCP make incursions yeay
200 people make incursions (EVE haz 65.000 people)
Somehow the 200 incursion runners are bad
Meanwhile in lolsec, lolsec collects isk for people sitting in space and collecting moon poo. But since the greed of lolsec folks knows no end, moon poo needs to cost more err day.
Meanwhile people and some software feel sad that mining pays less than being in danger of loosing something.
Mineral prices tags rise for the software and hardware miners - yeay.
But since greed knows no end and errthing- and -one needs more isk because pricetags rise and people need more isk and prices rise more and people need more isk..
All is good-y
lowse(x)c get faction ware - yeay
people and their alts and alts of alts do faction warfare without warfare and make trillions errday, market software and some hardware rise pricetag and errone needs more isk.
lolsec always need more isk, because.. reasons..
Hey, isn't it about time you rise moon poo prices again?? Now that you are all about to get stuck somewhere you will finds some reaons to rise moon poo prices again, who cares about the rest of the population..
lolsec needs more isk! pweese halp lolsec signature |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13692
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
And yet somehow, despite the claimed poverty of nullsec, your organization manages to field a massive supercapital fleet and offers a 200% SRP program. Apparently people are finding ways to make isk, whether it is by ratting, anomalies, market manipulation, scamming, etc....
The bulk of that isk is not made in 0.0.
Veers Belvar wrote: And as usual your ire is focused on the few hundred people, many of them career highsec folks like myself, who choose to run incursions for the enjoyment and the isk. We are to believe that what is broken in the game isn't the blue donut, the afk ratting/mining, the bots, the griefing, the scamming, etc.... No, what is breaking the game is a few hundred people running incursions in highsec and enjoying it (and yet market prices are still declining), because the nullsec/suicide ganker folks can't get their rocks off blowing up their ships, pissing them off, and getting them to quit the game. It's not enough to be able to kill miners and haulers, you need to be able to kill everyone else in highsec too!
And here you go off the rails entirely. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
158
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 17:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
And yet somehow, despite the claimed poverty of nullsec, your organization manages to field a massive supercapital fleet and offers a 200% SRP program. Apparently people are finding ways to make isk, whether it is by ratting, anomalies, market manipulation, scamming, etc....
The bulk of that isk is not made in 0.0. Veers Belvar wrote: And as usual your ire is focused on the few hundred people, many of them career highsec folks like myself, who choose to run incursions for the enjoyment and the isk. We are to believe that what is broken in the game isn't the blue donut, the afk ratting/mining, the bots, the griefing, the scamming, etc.... No, what is breaking the game is a few hundred people running incursions in highsec and enjoying it (and yet market prices are still declining), because the nullsec/suicide ganker folks can't get their rocks off blowing up their ships, pissing them off, and getting them to quit the game. It's not enough to be able to kill miners and haulers, you need to be able to kill everyone else in highsec too!
And here you go off the rails entirely.
I'd also like to point out that what makes isk for the alliance doesn't always make isk for the alliance members. Moon mining, for instance, is a tremendous source of isk, but it's isk for the alliance. Anyhow, I don't think that reasonable people really care about people making isk in incursions, more that people who risk their assets should have better access to isk. |
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.10.20 17:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
Another useless post on high sec incursion income.When will you realize than 90 % of what we earn goes back to incursion .... And by the way the modules and ships we buy come from null so asking high sec incursion to be nerfed is asking to cut your profit .
So let s do that and remove moon mining ,this way you ll let us alone and be granted what you asked for .... |
Kuldrek Culduvere
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.10.20 17:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
I started doing incursions a few months ago on my main. Yeah, the ISK is good, but there are other reasons I like doing them:
1. They are a fun change of pace.
2. I get to interact with other players I likely never would come across otherwise. On TS you get to hear stories from all over Eve.
3. It's a good way to learn the basics of being in a fleet, including using tags, fleet broadcasts, and watch lists. If you've been doing mostly solo types of things like mission running, etc. there isn't really a way to get that experience besides "going into the fire" in PVP and then you need to find people who would be willing to teach you there.
4. It's a great way to get logi experience. You can learn the ins and outs of repping your fleet mates, dealing with aggro switching in fleets that are too big for you to have everyone targeted or on your watch list, etc. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
145
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 18:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Yes they should. No they won't. Yes its ridiculous. No there's nothing you can do. liar get a fleet going of catalyst and just wait on an accelgate and pick a target, fc's dont care about ganks when told about gankers their reply is "do you know how much money we make"
personally hate their arrogance and would use part of my incursion profits to even advocate this, which give me an idea "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith |
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