Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sigras
Conglomo
962
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 09:35:13 -
[1] - Quote
CCP has stated that the off grid booster problem is difficult to fix because the coding challenges are many. In light of that, I propose this temporary measure which would be quick and easy to implement, and would have a largely similar effect.
Whenever you activate a gang link, you get a warpable beacon just as though you lit a cyno
Of course this beacon wouldnt lock you in place for 10 minutes like a cyno or prevent you from docking or jumping a gate, but in most other aspects, it would be the same. This means that anyone could instantly find your off grid booster so he may as well be with the fleet so he can receive RR etc.
Thoughts? |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
178
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 09:41:37 -
[2] - Quote
+1, even though this greatly benefits those who can sit their links in the warm embrace of a deathstar over roaming gangs. |
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
44
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 09:45:10 -
[3] - Quote
+1 for the idea.
But I see it as a problem too : what about people in highsec, mining or juste activating a ganglink while doing missions ? It'll be the start of "highsec beacon spamming" and the open door to even more grief / gank x) |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2950
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 09:53:18 -
[4] - Quote
Absolutely a +1 and a like for OP.
This is by no means a fix to the problem of offgrid links, but it's an excellent stopgap measure to put them at the proper degree of risk until they can be forced on-grid. |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1174
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 09:54:04 -
[5] - Quote
-1, because this does not solve the issue it seeks to. Creating a beacon, ignoring the annoyances that would cause, and the way it would be used to harass the general playerbase by groups of command ships in jita all flicking their 'beacon' on and off (Yes, it would happen. Yes, I would bring my 4 command ships to the beacon protest), would:
- Be of little benefit if the linker is sat on the edge of a pos bubble or station, where he's not in any danger anyway
- Highlight targets on grid who are linking, allowing gangs to easily see who they should be shooting
- Devalue the benefit in running a ganglink on your battlecruiser, as now it would be obvious that you are, and make you a bigger target
- Create additional clutter
Now, the whole reason I'm posting isn't to be negative, but rather because I don't think this is a good idea, so I'll propose an amendment;
Cause ganglinks, when active, to apply a massive penalty to being probed out, allowing them to be very easy to probe out while boosting, even with loads of ECCM fit. Some sort of idea around the probes being able to lock onto the ganglink communications from the ship. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 09:57:22 -
[6] - Quote
While the intent behind it is nice this is just going to end up reducing the amount of fights that happen. Mainly terrible, unfair fights granted but what else is new.
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
elitatwo
Congregatio
377
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 10:04:54 -
[7] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:While the intent behind it is nice this is just going to end up reducing the amount of fights that happen. People simply won't engage if they see one of these in system - killing the chances of fun for those using the links (hooray!) and everyone else nearby (hooroo!).
But imagine the tarps you can set up to bait someone?
signature
|
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 10:13:50 -
[8] - Quote
Oh I agree there's allsorts of potential fun to be had. Given I'm terrible and die anyway I'd probably enjoy the change. Maybe you would too. But 99% of the time you're just going to discourage roaming types from engaging not only in that system but nearby ones too because killboards or whatever.
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
830
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 11:03:55 -
[9] - Quote
So you want to penalise the use of on-grid boosters? Are you really sure that's a good idea?
Sniper fleets could no longer use on grid boosters as every enemy would have a permanent warp in point for the fleet.
This would also apply to every other fleet and so this alone is good enough reason not to introduce this change. In order to provide a "temporary measure" which doesn't really fix the issue you're trying to you're hugely reducing the valid uses of link ships in fleets.
-1, I'm afraid.
EDIT - The reason this would apply to every fleet using on grid boosters is that an enemy fleet can warp to |
Lugh Crow-Slave
178
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 11:42:45 -
[10] - Quote
This would only serve to cause more problems and not really solve any. |
|
elitatwo
Congregatio
377
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 11:50:11 -
[11] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:So you want to penalise the use of on-grid boosters? Are you really sure that's a good idea?...
Nah, we were talking about the off-grid ones that you don't get to see or hear about.
The only way you "know" if someone is using links or not is to keep an eye or two on your target velocities.
Like if you are in a Brutix and you know from flying a Brutix that the maximum speed you would get with a decent fit would range up to 1100m/s (for the sake of the argument) and you are about to engage a Brutix that goes 1400m/s and can turn much faster than you could, even with a nano.
At that point you can be sure that links will have something to do with it.
Or be it a Garmur that goes 8400m/s instead of 6000m/s.
And if unsure, hover your cursor over your mwd icon.
So at this point you either bail or you loose that fight but you know that your target has links up, which you cannot see or do something about.
With a beacon that acts like a neon-sign and tells you, here is link boat - please kill naow.
There is no stopping you from bringing your links with you to the grid you want to start an engagement but at the moment nobody does it because the pricetag on command ships.
signature
|
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
3708
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 01:04:51 -
[12] - Quote
No.
I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Demon your parents warned you about.
||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Tug-class Vessel||
|
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
851
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 01:13:36 -
[13] - Quote
I'd somewhat support some version of this idea as I don't think links used in PVP should be immune to consequences (though off grid links aren't completely risk free as things stand) but there are dozens of perfectly valid reasons for the use of off grid links that don't involve the PVP situations alot of the complaints stem from. |
Galphii
The Order of Solar Enlightenment
279
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 01:54:49 -
[14] - Quote
Sigras wrote:CCP has stated that the off grid booster problem is difficult to fix because the coding challenges are many. In light of that, I propose this temporary measure which would be quick and easy to implement, and would have a largely similar effect.
Whenever you activate a gang link, you get a warpable beacon just as though you lit a cyno
Of course this beacon wouldnt lock you in place for 10 minutes like a cyno or prevent you from docking or jumping a gate, but in most other aspects, it would be the same. This means that anyone could instantly find your off grid booster so he may as well be with the fleet so he can receive RR etc.
Thoughts? I brilliantly simply solution, +1 Makes sense, given the powerful EM transmissions from a command vessel too.
X
|
Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 08:54:53 -
[15] - Quote
Appreciate the intent, but its a band-aid. Continuing to accept the excuse that its "hard" to move boosts on grid is getting quite silly. Why has hard been an acceptable excuse in eve?
Maybe if CCP took their own advice of HTFU, they might lessen the dropping of their subs. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1624
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 09:05:47 -
[16] - Quote
Evora Pirkibo wrote:Appreciate the intent, but its a band-aid. Continuing to accept the excuse that its "hard" to move boosts on grid is getting quite silly. Why has hard been an acceptable excuse in eve?
Maybe if CCP took their own advice of HTFU, they might lessen the dropping of their subs. It would melt the hamsters. We like the hamsters not melted. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
146
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 09:11:04 -
[17] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Evora Pirkibo wrote:Appreciate the intent, but its a band-aid. Continuing to accept the excuse that its "hard" to move boosts on grid is getting quite silly. Why has hard been an acceptable excuse in eve?
Maybe if CCP took their own advice of HTFU, they might lessen the dropping of their subs. It would melt the hamsters. We like the hamsters not melted. Seconding that initiating magic smoke mode on the hamsters is bad, and that any links with grid range would quickly melt hamster due to being not merely n+1 but likely 6n per link at a bare minimum as far as load goes.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
|
Ellendras Silver
The Scope Gallente Federation
154
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 09:21:11 -
[18] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:While the intent behind it is nice this is just going to end up reducing the amount of fights that happen. People simply won't engage if they see one of these in system - killing the chances of fun for those using the links (hooray!) and everyone else nearby (hooroo!).
i dont think it will lead to less fights, it will result in risk for gang links and that is a good thing so i give it a +1
[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
844
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 09:25:36 -
[19] - Quote
And why don't you use a Virtued Scanner to find the booster or to shut it down with your probes? |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
830
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 10:34:17 -
[20] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tchulen wrote:So you want to penalise the use of on-grid boosters? Are you really sure that's a good idea?... Nah, we were talking about the off-grid ones that you don't get to see or hear about. My point is, by giving off-grid boosters this warp to beacon you're completely ruining on-grid boosters which is just dumb considering the general consensus seems to favour on-grid boosting over off-grid boosting as how it *should* work. It isn't a solution or even a band-aid. It's screwing the pooch for no good reason.
elitatwo wrote:There is no stopping you from bringing your links with you to the grid you want to start an engagement but at the moment nobody does it because the pricetag on command ships. Yes there is and in fact, that was my entire point. By creating a beacon on your command ship (or whatever is boosting your fleet) you're giving all enemies a direct warp in point for your fleet which is just insanely stupid. As for no one uses command ships to on-grid boost in fleets, yes they do. Just because some people don't, even the majority, isn't a good enough reason to screw it up for those that do especially considering that on-grid boosting is, by general consensus, how it *should* be done.
Luckily for those that do use on-grid boosters, this idea will never see the light of day. |
|
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
83
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 10:41:19 -
[21] - Quote
-1 this would force boosters off grid simply because their fleet wont want a beacon that gives their position away |
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
173
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 12:18:09 -
[22] - Quote
Thoughts are: you are terrible at this game and need to learn how to probe. |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
197
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:37:06 -
[23] - Quote
Lets also give all Outlaws and Suspects a warp beacon in both HisSec and LowSec.
|
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
614
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:49:37 -
[24] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:-1, because this does not solve the issue it seeks to. Creating a beacon, ignoring the annoyances that would cause, and the way it would be used to harass the general playerbase by groups of command ships in jita all flicking their 'beacon' on and off (Yes, it would happen. Yes, I would bring my 4 command ships to the beacon protest), would:
- Be of little benefit if the linker is sat on the edge of a pos bubble or station, where he's not in any danger anyway
- Highlight targets on grid who are linking, allowing gangs to easily see who they should be shooting
- Devalue the benefit in running a ganglink on your battlecruiser, as now it would be obvious that you are, and make you a bigger target
- Create additional clutter
Now, the whole reason I'm posting isn't to be negative, but rather because I don't think this is a good idea, so I'll propose an amendment; Cause ganglinks, when active, to apply a massive penalty to being probed out, allowing them to be very easy to probe out while boosting, even with loads of ECCM fit. Some sort of idea around the probes being able to lock onto the ganglink communications from the ship. This, I agree with all of the points.
Also lets not forget the part where skirmish gangs get effectively killed off because inties can warp off and on and always tackle the kiting ganglink in any kind of setup while armor/blob brawls just bring a damn damnation and keep its 1m ehp fat ass alive.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
264
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:39:42 -
[25] - Quote
In addition, the link ship should become suspect. It should also add a 60 second combat timer (can't jump through gates or dock).
You want links for your ships to shoot me, I get to shoot your link ship on gates and stations. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
264
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:41:19 -
[26] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Arronicus wrote:-1, because this does not solve the issue it seeks to. Creating a beacon, ignoring the annoyances that would cause, and the way it would be used to harass the general playerbase by groups of command ships in jita all flicking their 'beacon' on and off (Yes, it would happen. Yes, I would bring my 4 command ships to the beacon protest), would:
- Be of little benefit if the linker is sat on the edge of a pos bubble or station, where he's not in any danger anyway
- Highlight targets on grid who are linking, allowing gangs to easily see who they should be shooting
- Devalue the benefit in running a ganglink on your battlecruiser, as now it would be obvious that you are, and make you a bigger target
- Create additional clutter
Now, the whole reason I'm posting isn't to be negative, but rather because I don't think this is a good idea, so I'll propose an amendment; Cause ganglinks, when active, to apply a massive penalty to being probed out, allowing them to be very easy to probe out while boosting, even with loads of ECCM fit. Some sort of idea around the probes being able to lock onto the ganglink communications from the ship. This, I agree with all of the points. Also lets not forget the part where skirmish gangs get effectively killed off because inties can warp off and on and always tackle the kiting ganglink in any kind of setup while armor/blob brawls just bring a damn damnation and keep its 1m ehp fat ass alive.
Couldn't be more wrong. Links suck, and add little value to gameplay. They should be on grid, or easily killable.
Also, your points about clutter are irrelevant. I don't care about your hi sec mission runner dealing with "clutter". Turn it off on your overview ffs.
My killboard would be retardedly awesome if I had links in every engagement. Yeah, links are that good. |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1185
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:09:56 -
[27] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:elitatwo wrote:Tchulen wrote:So you want to penalise the use of on-grid boosters? Are you really sure that's a good idea?... Nah, we were talking about the off-grid ones that you don't get to see or hear about. My point is, by giving off-grid boosters this warp to beacon you're completely ruining on-grid boosters which is just dumb considering the general consensus seems to favour on-grid boosting over off-grid boosting as how it *should* work. It isn't a solution or even a band-aid. It's screwing the pooch for no good reason. elitatwo wrote:There is no stopping you from bringing your links with you to the grid you want to start an engagement but at the moment nobody does it because the pricetag on command ships. Yes there is and in fact, that was my entire point. By creating a beacon on your command ship (or whatever is boosting your fleet) you're giving all enemies a direct warp in point for your fleet which is just insanely stupid. As for no one uses command ships to on-grid boost in fleets, yes they do. Just because some people don't, even the majority, isn't a good enough reason to screw it up for those that do especially considering that on-grid boosting is, by general consensus, how it *should* be done. Luckily for those that do use on-grid boosters, this idea will never see the light of day.
This was what I was touching on myself. It's going to make the problem worse, not better. The op and a few of the others ignored this though, convinced that they have a good solution, as opposed to a bad one. And yes, like Tchulen mentions, people do use ongrid boosters in command ships, that's a big part of why doomsdays were changed to target capitals only; so titans couldnt keep dd instakilling ganglinks ongrid. |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1185
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:13:04 -
[28] - Quote
Phaade wrote:In addition, the link ship should become suspect. It should also add a 60 second combat timer (can't jump through gates or dock).
You want links for your ships to shoot me, I get to shoot your link ship on gates and stations.
Yes, while we're at it on completely unreasonable and ridiculous demands and expectations, all missions should create beacons in lowsec, so pvpers can warp to them. Mining ship ore bays should be accessible to everyone, so they can be stolen from. Capital ships should be free if you're poor. Major trade hubs should have free teleports to the other trade hubs.
Because that's what you're doing here, Phaade. Spewing completely ridiculous garbage. |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
264
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:54:11 -
[29] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Phaade wrote:In addition, the link ship should become suspect. It should also add a 60 second combat timer (can't jump through gates or dock).
You want links for your ships to shoot me, I get to shoot your link ship on gates and stations. Yes, while we're at it on completely unreasonable and ridiculous demands and expectations, all missions should create beacons in lowsec, so pvpers can warp to them. Mining ship ore bays should be accessible to everyone, so they can be stolen from. Capital ships should be free if you're poor. Major trade hubs should have free teleports to the other trade hubs. Because that's what you're doing here, Phaade. Spewing completely ridiculous garbage.
Its not ridiculous by any means. Maybe not suspect, certainly an agression timer.
Sorry this puts your station humping link alt at risk. And frankly I dont give a damn about making your level 4 mission grinding easier.
Links should never have been implemented to begin with. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
496
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:19:55 -
[30] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Arronicus wrote:Phaade wrote:In addition, the link ship should become suspect. It should also add a 60 second combat timer (can't jump through gates or dock).
You want links for your ships to shoot me, I get to shoot your link ship on gates and stations. Yes, while we're at it on completely unreasonable and ridiculous demands and expectations, all missions should create beacons in lowsec, so pvpers can warp to them. Mining ship ore bays should be accessible to everyone, so they can be stolen from. Capital ships should be free if you're poor. Major trade hubs should have free teleports to the other trade hubs. Because that's what you're doing here, Phaade. Spewing completely ridiculous garbage. Its not ridiculous by any means. Maybe not suspect, certainly an agression timer. Sorry this puts your station humping link alt at risk. And frankly I dont give a damn about making your level 4 mission grinding easier. Links should never have been implemented to begin with. Edit: LMAO at your suggestion that people use links on grid. Thats literally less than 1 in 100.
Aggression timer for using links isn't a bad idea. We're not talking about giving the link alt a suspect/criminal flag. Link ship just can't dock or jump for 1 minute after they turn off the mods. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |