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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8664
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Posted - 2014.10.23 14:56:48 -
[61] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:
I'm with the OP. Most people always take the 'it's part of the game' stance (especially the ones actively engaging in such things), but no one seems to care that this drives off a lot of people who would otherwise be happily playing along.
People take that stance because it is the correct one. You are playing a competitive game. A non-competitive game would not allow such behavior.. The CHOICE to play a competitive game comes with the CONSEQUENCE of being competed against.
I don't try to chase people out of the game, but I'm glad that others do, because if a person can't deal with 100% inconsequential and totally irrelevant (in the grand scheme of things) loss of imaginary items, they should not be playing a video game in the 1st place.
I for one like that most of the people who I'm playing with/against in this game are not the over-sensitive weaklings found in every other online game I've played. As a corp mate once said of this very situation: You don't go to a freaking Biker Bar for tea, crumpets and polite conversation.
EVE is a virtual biker bar. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
5162
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:02:45 -
[62] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:EVE is a virtual biker bar.
Its Sodom and Gomorrah, but there are still polite people inside, strangely.
Recon makes them stronger
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6005
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:08:57 -
[63] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions.
you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20982
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:11:35 -
[64] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote: Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.
Moral codes and noble actions are culture and environment sensitive, different cultures and environments produce different rules and thus moral codes, you only have to look at the differences between cultures in the real world to see this.
Eve is a game that is advertised as a harsh, dark and dystopian environment, where you, the player, are basically an immortal demigod and content for every other player. The setting and rules in Eve are very different to their real life equivalents, as such the moral code that applies to Eve is different to the moral codes that apply in the real world.
TL;DR I don't bring my real world morals into Eve, and I don't take my Eve morals, or lack of them, into meatspace; because I can differentiate between fantasy and real life I know that they're very different places and to do so would be inappropriate.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8665
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:14:40 -
[65] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.
The present disaster of a game that 10s of thousands of people like to play. Some disaster.
If you actually think this, why are you still here? EVE was CONCEIVED as a game of maximum freedom and everyone knows that freedom means people not walking lock-step in politically correct ways but rather (gasp) people actually doing what they wish, when they wish. Making the choice to play a game that was BUILT on the concept of freedom when you hate other people being free (and then expecting it to change) is the new definition of insanity IMO.
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Valkin Mordirc
332
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:17:06 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.
The fact the you bring Real Life concepts into a video game, should be worrying. The fact that you can't differentiate actions in a video game, and actions in real life, is worrying. The fact that you think that Video game action translate into real life behaviour or attitude. Is worrying.
Just because I play Call Of Duty doesn't mean I will join the military and go on a giant illegal escapade,
Just because I play Skyrim doesn't mean I will learn how to sword fight.
Just because I play Hitman doesn't mean I want to become an assassin.
Also due to the fact that you think people in real life, are honourable and noble is gullible,
#DeleteTheWeak
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Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
14
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:23:16 -
[67] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right.
Look here Ralphie ... when i say not-nice people i dont mean your little antics with the PvP crowd... even with the unvoluntary ones.
When OP tells his/her story it looks to me they had a friendly convo about trying something out right?
When OP stresses on the fact that its just a test and no going beyond hull... and you still blow up?
Then IRL in MY book you are a lousy person.
You may be looking at a virtual world with makebelieve characters but there are real folks behind that screen.
Theres PvP and theres just beeing rotten to the core. Ive not been around too long in this game but ive allready seen stuff that makes your eyes water. Its downright distasteful.
If that means im a weak carebear... pffff... then i wear that title with pride.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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Valkin Mordirc
332
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:25:30 -
[68] - Quote
Hey Everyone, I think we found Veer's long lost brother.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Alternate Allegiance
92
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:26:37 -
[69] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:That's... simplest terms?
Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others.
This is exactly true. However it doesnt include the fact that when that person does kick down your sandcastle you cant go out and break their knees for doing it. At least not in a way I find satisfying. They go hide. I personally find this to be the most frustrating thing in the game. |
Valkin Mordirc
332
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:29:27 -
[70] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:That's... simplest terms?
Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others. This is exactly true. However it doesnt include the fact that when that person does kick down your sandcastle you cant go out and break their knees for doing it. At least not in a way I find satisfying. They go hide. I personally find this to be the most frustrating thing in the game.
Some do and some don't,
I've had plenty of corps retaliate effectively. I was apart of a corp called Deadly Fingertips at somepoint before to closed, we wardecced some alliance we noted to be around Amarr a lot.
We killed a few of there indy's and frigs.
They undocked 40 ravens on two vindicators and promptly got two 1.3bill isk killmails with no loses. I thought it was pretty ******* cool. XD
#DeleteTheWeak
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Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
14
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:29:27 -
[71] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Quote:Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately. The fact the you bring Real Life concepts into a video game, should be worrying. The fact that you can't differentiate actions in a video game, and actions in real life, is worrying. The fact that you think that Video game action translate into real life behaviour or attitude. Is worrying. Just because I play Call Of Duty doesn't mean I will join the military and go on a giant illegal escapade, Just because I play Skyrim doesn't mean I will learn how to sword fight. Just because I play Hitman doesn't mean I want to become an assassin. Also due to the fact that you think people in real life, are honourable and noble is gullible,
The fact that you have no idea what im talking about (and obviously you dont) is worrying.
But looking at the world around me im not at all surprised.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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Valkin Mordirc
332
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:31:10 -
[72] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
The fact that you have no idea what im talking about (and obviously you dont) is worrying.
But looking at the world around me im not at all surprised.
Peace out then buddy.
If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen,
Don't stay in bad company,
That sorta thing,
Oh. And Harden the **** up.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20985
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:31:33 -
[73] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:You may be looking at a virtual world with makebelieve characters but there are real folks behind that screen. While it may be true that there are real people behind the screen, their character is not, it is a digital entity that is content for other players. In short other players are advanced, and in some cases not so advanced, NPCs.
Quote:Theres PvP and theres just beeing rotten to the core. Ive not been around too long in this game but ive allready seen stuff that makes your eyes water. Its downright distasteful. So find another game that is more to your liking, nobody is forcing you to play Eve.
Quote:If that means im a weak carebear... pffff... then i wear that title with pride. You're struggling to qualify for that title at the moment.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8669
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:31:58 -
[74] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.
Moral codes and noble actions are culture and environment sensitive, different cultures and environments produce different rules and thus moral codes, you only have to look at the differences between cultures in the real world to see this. Eve is a game that is advertised as a harsh, dark and dystopian environment, where you, the player, are basically an immortal demigod and content for every other player. The setting and rules in Eve are very different to their real life equivalents, as such the moral code that applies to Eve is different to the moral codes that apply in the real world. TL;DR I don't bring my real world morals into Eve, and I don't take my Eve morals, or lack of them, into meatspace; because I can differentiate between fantasy and real life I know that they're very different places and to do so would be inappropriate.
Well said.
Now, me personally, I do kind of bring my 'morals' into the game. I don't gank or scam or war dec in high sec etc etc. I've been in 2 gank fleets for the luls that didn't get to gank anything and I'll shoot anything in low, null or wormhole space just because I can and they are there. I don't do this because doing otherwise is 'wrong' (the only 'wrong' in this game are things against the EULA), but because i don't enjoy them.
When it comes to my in game activities, I'm as "whitebread" as you can get. If we had real walking ins stations, my avatar would be seen in a robe and slippers puffing on a pipe while listening to some Nat King Cole.
The difference is that I know my preferences apply to ME and me alone. I don't try to project my personal 'moral code' on other people in game or in real life. In real life I'm not into tattooing and piercing things and various other life choices, but I look at people who are and say "well, it's not me, but you do you" and be done with it.
Others want things they don't do OUTLAWED because 'it's not right'. It's a heavy authoritarian tendency, everything must conform to their way of doing things else it's invalid.
I'll violate the "separation of game and life" rule here and say that it's a good bet that the people who don't like the fact that other people are free to do as they please in a video game probably don't like that same fact about people in the real world either. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8669
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:33:38 -
[75] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
You may be looking at a virtual world with makebelieve characters but there are real folks behind that screen.
Yes, and those real people made the adult choice to play a game with anonymous other people over the internet. The consequence of this is, well, internet behavior. If you don't like that, stay off the internet. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6519
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:34:28 -
[76] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Game is fine, the people are ******.
No kidding. I wouldn't accept a 'duel to hull' request if it was my own alt offering it. If I'm that much of a **** to myself, I can only imagine how people I don't know would be.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
97
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:38:58 -
[77] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.
All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.
Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.
None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19098
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:42:08 -
[78] - Quote
People are wrong with Eve. The bitter vets are what's wrong with Eve. It's up to people with a want to change things for the better to fix Eve.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Snakebyte Jack
Fear and Loathing in New Eden
41
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:47:59 -
[79] - Quote
I almost broke into a smile after reading this. |
Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
242
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:49:38 -
[80] - Quote
What is really wrong with EvE, is people like the OP, who make silly mistakes, then rather than learn from it and move on, come to the forums to cry about how their gaming fun was ruined, and how the game should be changed to make it easier for them.
OP, if you were smart, you would learn from this, that trusting random people in high sec who want to duel you is silly. Trusting anyone ought to be a serious thing is this game, because it is so easy to screw people over.
Trust is something that should be earned, one step at a time. If you see a new player, do you trust that they are new? With so many alts, I don't think that many of the new players are even new. Now if you work with that newbie, for a while, you could build trust with them. But it could still be the alt of some vet, ready to stab you in the back, when you least expect it!
But all that kind of stuff makes EvE the great game is it, and is a big reason why I play it, and was a big reason I joined this game as a newbie! |
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
88
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:52:54 -
[81] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:
You may be looking at a virtual world with makebelieve characters but there are real folks behind that screen.
Yes, and those real people made the adult choice to play a game with anonymous other people over the internet. The consequence of this is, well, internet behavior. If you don't like that, stay off the internet.
They also can make the adult choice of quitting, which i think was the general idea behind this thread.
That you compare a service where people either invest their time or money to some stereotypical chat room behavior is just a cherry on top, maybe that would illustrate why so few companies embark on the bold journey of ffa pvp with loosing stuff.
In the end, and forgive the PC term, people can be butts, especially if a masure of entertainment can be derived from it, it does not make them less of a butt if it is permitted or even encouraged ("content"), and it does not take a psychology degree to estimate that playing with butts would be a niche (NO pun intended).
After that whether the end result is wrong or ok is a matter perspective. |
Toshiro Hasegawa
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
101
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:56:36 -
[82] - Quote
In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE ?: nothing
History is the study of change.
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Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
16
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Posted - 2014.10.23 16:05:33 -
[83] - Quote
Toshiro Hasegawa wrote:In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE ?: nothing
Indeed!
But that was really never what i was on about...
Oh and i take my Morals everywhere i go Jenna... something more peeps should try.
Its way more of a challenge than this 'playing evil'... and way cooler stuff can come of it :)
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
337
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Posted - 2014.10.23 16:09:54 -
[84] - Quote
On the other hand I wish there was some other profit from shooting other players then "hurr hurr I killed you and got this pretty mail and your corpse ohh sweet corpse and o hi I got this crappy loot from your wreck" aside from possible bounties that is.
Unless you go for ganking freighters and such of c. I have been thinking of bounties being tied to sec status ie. 10mil per negative sec status or some such but that would be ruined by alts unfortunately.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
180
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Posted - 2014.10.23 16:12:41 -
[85] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:
All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.
Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.
None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.
This really isn't true. Highsec is designed with an infallible police force that wipes out criminals, no matter how powerful they are. Your description may be accurate for nullsec, but certainly not for highsec. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
180
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:16:14 -
[86] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue. The present disaster of a game that 10s of thousands of people like to play. Some disaster. If you actually think this, why are you still here? EVE was CONCEIVED as a game of maximum freedom and everyone knows that freedom means people not walking lock-step in politically correct ways but rather (gasp) people actually doing what they wish, when they wish. Making the choice to play a game that was BUILT on the concept of freedom when you hate other people being free (and then expecting it to change) is the new definition of insanity IMO.
I'm not sure how many people are actually playing the game. The flood of alts and bot accounts makes it difficult to discern how many unique human players there are. And from what I gather retention stats are rather poor.
I'm here because I enjoy the PvE aspects of the game, think incursions and missions, and would like to continue enjoying them. The whole concept of "freedom" is a misnomer when CCP arbitrarily determines the mechanics in highsec. Want to make agression timers 6 hours instead of 15 minutes? Want to eliminate all non-consensual pvp? Want to remove CONCORD from the game? Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Eve is only a sandbox within the arbitrary framework that CCP is continually adjusting. And I'm proud to encourage adjustments in what I consider to be a positive direction. |
Valkin Mordirc
335
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Posted - 2014.10.23 16:18:38 -
[87] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Black Pedro wrote:
All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.
Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.
None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.
This really isn't true. Highsec is designed with an infallible police force that wipes out criminals, no matter how powerful they are. Your description may be accurate for nullsec, but certainly not for highsec.
Does anybody hear something? It seem really small and faint? Almost like something stuck on repeat.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8674
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:28:50 -
[88] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:
That you compare a service where people either invest their time or money to some stereotypical chat room behavior is just a cherry on top, maybe that would illustrate why so few companies embark on the bold journey of ffa pvp with loosing stuff.
This is important, because their are other games. I play a few of them. And you are right, very few companies do what CCP does.
This brings to my mind the question: Since you know why few other companies do this, why give your money and time to a company that does if yo don't like the resulting community.
If i hated community behavior of the games rule set so much, I personally wouldn't be here. Yet you have a forum full of griping folk who have major problems with, well, everything, but yet they are still here. That's what I don't understand. |
Anslo
Scope Works
19157
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:28:57 -
[89] - Quote
3edgy5me bruh
Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
109
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Posted - 2014.10.23 16:30:24 -
[90] - Quote
I trust very few people in Eve:
1. Myself. 2. Chribba (to a point)
I trust everyone else to look after their own self interest first and foremost, and understand that if I give them the opportunity, they will (not may, but will) take advatage of that opportunity and scam me, rob me, destroy my ship and assets, or otherwise ruin my day in the name of making theirs. It is important to remember that Eve is a dystopian society, quite unlike any modern civilization in that there are no consequences to the "villian" for being a villian and no benefit to the hero for playing that role. The default assumption is that everyone is a villian until they prove otherwise.
I joke about not trusting my own alts, but the reality of it is that Eve is a game where trust cannot be freely given until it needs to be taken away - it is a game where trust should have to be earned before it is given.
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
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