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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
63
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Posted - 2014.10.24 21:14:29 -
[61] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:neuts and damps. put both on geddons. 2 un bonus damps puts a guardian with links down to 40km (OH damps) almost within geddon neut range.
Why would any roaming fleet be anywhere near neut Armageddons? and why would bringing the lock ranges down on the 2 logis mean the logis are going to be within 40 km from well anything that's trying to kill them still?
James Baboli wrote:[quote=afkalt]I would like to see logi changes that make sense, and don't kill my preferred gameplay style
I don't mind changes as long as it does not change the way I do things... but you can nerf every one else thanks. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
163
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Posted - 2014.10.24 21:50:43 -
[62] - Quote
Tappits wrote:James Baboli wrote:I would like to see logi changes that make sense, and don't kill my preferred gameplay style I don't mind changes as long as it does not change the way I do things... but you can nerf every one else thanks. Eh, so long as the content is theoretially accessible with t2 logi and t2 or pirate BS and t2 fits, I don't care. If it isn't then I have problems with it,.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Things I support:
Channel links directly from tab.
Tech 3 battleships.
Brains over blobs.
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
63
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Posted - 2014.10.24 22:37:26 -
[63] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Tappits wrote:James Baboli wrote:I would like to see logi changes that make sense, and don't kill my preferred gameplay style I don't mind changes as long as it does not change the way I do things... but you can nerf every one else thanks. Eh, so long as the content is theoretially accessible with t2 logi and t2 or pirate BS and t2 fits, I don't care. If it isn't then I have problems with it,.
So if they make it so its better to run them in lets say a gang of hacs rather than a BS? what will you do? |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
165
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Posted - 2014.10.24 23:40:07 -
[64] - Quote
Tappits wrote:James Baboli wrote:Tappits wrote:James Baboli wrote:I would like to see logi changes that make sense, and don't kill my preferred gameplay style I don't mind changes as long as it does not change the way I do things... but you can nerf every one else thanks. Eh, so long as the content is theoretially accessible with t2 logi and t2 or pirate BS and t2 fits, I don't care. If it isn't then I have problems with it,. So if they make it so its better to run them in lets say a gang of hacs rather than a BS? what will you do? I would fly HACs. If the PvE content has a lower barrier to entry, and is not suicidally dangerous to run with mostly t2 fits, I would have no issue with anything proposed.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Things I support:
Channel links directly from tab.
Tech 3 battleships.
Brains over blobs.
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Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
30
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Posted - 2014.11.04 21:06:25 -
[65] - Quote
Things i love about EVE.
1. the guy that says dont touch logi because it will hurt incursions. this is the same guy who says yes nerf capitals!!!! turn eve into the L.A. Freeway online. (really we tryed to move 60 dreads today through gates and it was comical.) i say you took my capitals away CCP should make you have to fit more than a invul on your BATTLESHIP to fight 50 other BATTLESHIPS.
2. people are so freaked out about the thought of changing logi that it must be a good idea. i have flown logi for years and as i said before i would like the logi world to get a shake up. we are changing all these different aspects of eve why not i mean we all know how OP HICs where right they got a look why not logi. ( if you dont see the humor in that your a moron.)
to CCP I say. Thank you for phebe or as i like to call it TRAFFIC JAM Online. (hope your looking into that whole 40 man roam causes TIDI issue.) now lets look at not only logi but recons and for gods sake ishtars. (you know ishtars thats the cruiser sized hull with the frig sized sig and the battle cruser sized tank with the battle ship sized weapons.)
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
208
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Posted - 2014.11.04 21:27:16 -
[66] - Quote
Cr Turist wrote:Things i love about EVE.
1. the guy that says dont touch logi because it will hurt incursions. this is the same guy who says yes nerf capitals!!!! turn eve into the L.A. Freeway online. (really we tryed to move 60 dreads today through gates and it was comical.) i say you took my capitals away CCP should make you have to fit more than a invul on your BATTLESHIP to fight 50 other BATTLESHIPS.
Its more like 16 other battleships, a handfull (<20) of cruisers and a handful of frigates (again <20) and the one or two communities that do run this content with a single invuln on their battleships run hugely expensive deadspace invulns, rigs and a damage control, as well as an LSE, along with a logi percentage that would make most corps blanch, running as high as 1 logi for every 3 battleships, as well as a pair of perfect boosters covering all 4 flavors of links. For this sort of investment and organization, not to mention the high standards of logi in these communities, its not unthinkable to be able to run high end content with fairly light tank.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
716
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Posted - 2014.11.04 21:48:36 -
[67] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:baltec1 wrote:What we need is something like stacking penalties on logi to end the unkillable fleets. If there was a way to do that without nerfing high end PvE into the ground, I would agree with you right now. PvE content can be re-balanced to accommodate any changes to logi. Incursions could use a bump up in difficulty or a nerf in rewards anyway. |
Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
30
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Posted - 2014.11.04 21:50:22 -
[68] - Quote
maybe i am wrong but i was under the impression the fit for a shield vindi is [Vindicator, New Setup 1] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Damage Control II Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Core X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II [empty rig slot]
please correct me if im wrong about this fit but i dont see a LSE. and last i checked the only cruser on field is the logi and frigs pay no role at all. and since we are talking about logi. how about the scimi fit they run. as i recall they have almost 0 tank and just run remote links? i think they run a rig. now how is that not a little broken. if you are to argue that they spend so much time and effert with all this money they spend on fits all im gonna do is log in my super and titan and say but but but so did I.
and yes im butt hurt about my toys but its ok im sure CCP will figure something out till then its time to fly ishtars. you know the ishtar its the cruser sized hull with t2 resists with a frig sized sig battle ship sized guns and a battle cruser tank that can hit anywhere on the field. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
208
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 21:56:44 -
[69] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:James Baboli wrote:baltec1 wrote:What we need is something like stacking penalties on logi to end the unkillable fleets. If there was a way to do that without nerfing high end PvE into the ground, I would agree with you right now. PvE content can be re-balanced to accommodate any changes to logi. Incursions could use a bump up in difficulty or a nerf in rewards anyway. Why? Let us look at what happens to those who try to run incursions without the acquired knowledge locked up in the communities and the theorycrafting done mostly in private in those communities. They die horribly. The highsec incursion communities however, have reduced them to a formula through massive work and deep theory-crafting and way more losses of things being tested than one wants to admit (mostly in the early days, but continuing through now). The ships are setup in such a way as to run these sites optimally, and FCs in incursions typically have deep knowledge of arcance mechanics found in few other places, like various forms of E-wars and the aggression mechanics, and use these to make their fleets safe. Tanks are well under the point where it is economical to gank them in many communities, and the only issue is that gankers haven't formed up to do so, or haven't effectively figured out when and where ships will be pinned down by rats for them.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
30
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Posted - 2014.11.04 22:00:09 -
[70] - Quote
point is that incursain ans mission runners will adapt just as low and nullsec pvp players will.
we need a change. and since ccp is into making changes that feel like pulling teeth. why not look at the logi.
i would love some new ideas that people have. what do u think logi should be?
BTW i love the idea of a drone based logi for gallent. that would be a really nice add. and fall in with the race.
or maybe we can make ishtar logi!! you know the ishtar its the cruiser sized hull with t2 resists that has the battle ship sized guns the frig sized sig and the battle cruser sized tank that can hit anyplace on the field. |
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
208
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Posted - 2014.11.04 22:02:52 -
[71] - Quote
Cr Turist wrote:*snipped dual Pithum A vindi*
please correct me if im wrong about this fit but i dont see a LSE. and last i checked the only cruser on field is the logi and frigs pay no role at all. and since we are talking about logi. how about the scimi fit they run. as i recall they have almost 0 tank and just run remote links? i think they run a rig. now how is that not a little broken. if you are to argue that they spend so much time and effert with all this money they spend on fits all im gonna do is log in my super and titan and say but but but so did I.
This is a 3-4 billion isk vindicator, with not 1 invuln, but 2, both of them priced around a billion isk, a damage control and a rig. This is not the single invuln setup that was being discussed, which is almost entirely an ISN and Helix thing and is run with a large shield extender.
As for scimitars, most communities put a damage control and 5 links on the vanguard scimitars, where the opposition is 5-8 cruisers or 2 cruisers and 1 battleship and a handful of frigates. On an unshiny HQ scimitar, there is typically 2 t2 invulns and an afterburner, allowing speed tank and high resists, as they naturally take shameless advantage of the fairly flat t2 minmatar resists, which are highest in the areas which they have the best natural resists. On the other hand, no one runs a shield rig on scimitars.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
|
Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
30
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 22:04:11 -
[72] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Cr Turist wrote:*snipped dual Pithum A vindi*
please correct me if im wrong about this fit but i dont see a LSE. and last i checked the only cruser on field is the logi and frigs pay no role at all. and since we are talking about logi. how about the scimi fit they run. as i recall they have almost 0 tank and just run remote links? i think they run a rig. now how is that not a little broken. if you are to argue that they spend so much time and effert with all this money they spend on fits all im gonna do is log in my super and titan and say but but but so did I. This is a 3-4 billion isk vindicator, with not 1 invuln, but 2, both of them priced around a billion isk, a damage control and a rig. This is not the single invuln setup that was being discussed, which is almost entirely an ISN and Helix thing and is run with a large shield extender. As for scimitars, most communities put a damage control and 5 links on the vanguard scimitars, where the opposition is 5-8 cruisers or 2 cruisers and 1 battleship and a handful of frigates. On an unshiny HQ scimitar, there is typically 2 t2 invulns and an afterburner, allowing speed tank and high resists, as they naturally take shameless advantage of the fairly flat t2 minmatar resists, which are highest in the areas which they have the best natural resists. On the other hand, no one runs a shield rig on scimitars.
i had hopes you were gonna stop the madness but i see thats not gonna happen. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
208
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Posted - 2014.11.04 22:05:20 -
[73] - Quote
Cr Turist wrote:point is that incursain ans mission runners will adapt just as low and nullsec pvp players will.
we need a change. and since ccp is into making changes that feel like pulling teeth. why not look at the logi.
i would love some new ideas that people have. what do u think logi should be?
BTW i love the idea of a drone based logi for gallent. that would be a really nice add. and fall in with the race.
or maybe we can make ishtar logi!! you know the ishtar its the cruiser sized hull with t2 resists that has the battle ship sized guns the frig sized sig and the battle cruser sized tank that can hit anyplace on the field.
So far, the changes proposed are changes purely to make changes, while CCP has been making changes with the intention of re-shaping the game and generating a reasonable level of balance between races, between t1 and t2, between t1 and faction, between t2 and pirate, etc.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
|
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
208
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 22:10:42 -
[74] - Quote
As I have been saying, I would love to see signature radius based logi. This means that a t2 logi ship has the hard choice of fitting large reps (which it is designed for, given the bonuses) and applying most of its reps to battleships, while smaller things have much less effect from these brute force reps, or fit mediums (possibly deadspace mediums, preserving the ability to rep about as hard as t2 larges) and apply the reps better to smaller ships, at the cost of increased cost if they use deadspace reps or lower rep power if they don't. It also means that frigate and t1 cruiser logi end up with similar stats relative to the sorts of gangs they are typically used with, and so it is mostly t2 logi being nerfed.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
|
Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
30
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Posted - 2014.11.04 22:11:04 -
[75] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Cr Turist wrote:point is that incursain ans mission runners will adapt just as low and nullsec pvp players will.
we need a change. and since ccp is into making changes that feel like pulling teeth. why not look at the logi.
i would love some new ideas that people have. what do u think logi should be?
BTW i love the idea of a drone based logi for gallent. that would be a really nice add. and fall in with the race.
or maybe we can make ishtar logi!! you know the ishtar its the cruiser sized hull with t2 resists that has the battle ship sized guns the frig sized sig and the battle cruser sized tank that can hit anyplace on the field. So far, the changes proposed are changes purely to make changes, while CCP has been making changes with the intention of re-shaping the game and generating a reasonable level of balance between races, between t1 and t2, between t1 and faction, between t2 and pirate, etc.
What? the purpose of this thread was to have people throw some ideas around about what can be done with logistics. eve is getting a overhaul m8 and everything is getting touched by putting down ideas maybe some dev on his coffee break will read this and say oo thats a cool idea we should look into that.
logi needs to be changed. point blank. however i would like to see a change not a nerf maybe some added content. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
99
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Posted - 2014.11.04 22:26:40 -
[76] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Lady Rift wrote:neuts and damps. put both on geddons. 2 un bonus damps puts a guardian with links down to 40km (OH damps) almost within geddon neut range. Why would any roaming fleet be anywhere near neut Armageddons? and why would bringing the lock ranges down on the 2 logis mean the logis are going to be within 40 km from well anything that's trying to kill them still? James Baboli wrote:[quote=afkalt]I would like to see logi changes that make sense, and don't kill my preferred gameplay style I don't mind changes as long as it does not change the way I do things... but you can nerf every one else thanks.
means logis need to be closer to the fleet and thus easier to get to for neuts and what not instead of being out of range of everything.
OH for 4+mins wtih 2 damps OHed
everyone should roam with a geddon or 2. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1073
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Posted - 2014.11.04 22:32:22 -
[77] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:What we need is something like stacking penalties on logi to end the unkillable fleets.
i'd say what we need is a stacking penalty (I'm talking for large scale fights) on focus firing so fights are not a game of checkers and the mechanics of wings and squads would actually matter
forcing logi to be spread and more difficult to do, as well as firing. But this would never happen.
TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~
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My ship fits
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Cr Turist
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
30
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Posted - 2014.11.04 22:37:04 -
[78] - Quote
the stacking idea is interesting. personally i would like to see more options for logistics ships. a couple new hulls would be really cool and give people the option to change things up.
T2 logi frigs soo need to be a thing. with the changes in movement roaming is gonna be a key way to get fights once again. a scimi has little to no issue keeping up with a cruiser or above fleet however you are seeing more and more frig and destroyer based fleets these days. i think a cool little logi frig to complement those fleets would be pritty cool. ofc you would have to limit its range and ehp but i think having a alternative to a burst would be nice. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
208
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Posted - 2014.11.04 23:08:39 -
[79] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:baltec1 wrote:What we need is something like stacking penalties on logi to end the unkillable fleets. i'd say what we need is a stacking penalty (I'm talking for large scale fights) on focus firing so fights are not a game of checkers and the mechanics of wings and squads would actually matter forcing logi to be spread and more difficult to do, as well as firing. But this would never happen. What level of stacking penalty? I think one where through about 4-5 logi (16-25 reps) the penalty is fairly negligible and rewards strongly having logi in a small gang, but becomes very severe over 14-16 logi on the same target (56-80 reps) makes it more possible to kill ships in medium gangs, and to kill ships other than through alpha or getting out of logi range in fleet fights. (note, this change would hurt incursions, so those saying I won't accept any change that hurts them can eat it, it just doesn't make them impossible)
I also would like to see capital reps reduced in how they apply on subcaps, but cannot find a good method of doing so other than a similar mechanism for signature radius, but this just makes MWDs a much larger part of catching reps, etc.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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