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Anslo
Scope Works
19917
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Posted - 2014.10.29 18:27:40 -
[61] - Quote
OK so is this just going to end up being an endless parade of questions and paranoia? First he's fake. Then he may not be something good. What's next? He's the perfect Sansha/Sleeper secret spy so better to ignore him?
No offense but it just seems like this will go nowhere, ever. A healthy dose of paranoia is one thing. But I'm starting to get a feeling that this bullshit is gonna end up obstructed due to an over abundance of caution.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Mizhara Del'thul
Sarz'namarr
13
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Posted - 2014.10.29 18:54:03 -
[62] - Quote
Don't look at me, I'm not involved in this after the initial mistake of escorting his sorry ass. |
Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
413
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:29:47 -
[63] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote: As I understand it, the current stance from Acquisition is that nothing is going to be handed over until a satisfactory explanation has been given and verified.
Satisfactory to who though? the property may be yours (or more correctly The Antiquarians) to do with as you wish, but the consequences are not yours to bear alone.
To address the ancillary commentary knocking about along this line of conversation:
I highly doubt this is something so dramatic as 'the end of the cluster as we know it', but even a mere theft or con to obtain some exceptionally rare items would be a source of embarrassment and regret for those involved. This community has fallen far indeed if common caution is 'paranoia'.
CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: Adaptable Industry for an Unpredictable Cluster
Intaki Reborn.
Independent Capsuleer.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19917
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:33:26 -
[64] - Quote
And you're clearly off your rocker when all the evidence points to this not being some gods damn thief. Here, let's try this.
People are crying thief or fake, fraud, etc.
Where's your evidence for this?
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
413
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:36:14 -
[65] - Quote
There is insufficient evidence either way, in which case caution is the sensible option. Though last time he spoke, Tukoss didn't have hexadecimal interlaced with his comms with running commentry such as 'equivalent term' and referential material.
Broken translator? Possible. Not too bright thief with a vocoder and bad translator set up? Also possible.
I'd ask you for your evidence that he is genuine, but your reputation precedes you. I'd welcome a surprise though.
CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: Adaptable Industry for an Unpredictable Cluster
Intaki Reborn.
Independent Capsuleer.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Sarz'namarr
14
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:37:05 -
[66] - Quote
These are incredibly rare and expensive artifacts of the past. Just handing them over without questioning the rather curious aspects of Tukoss' disappearance, reappearance, comms issues and other anomalies would be wildly irresponsible and dangerously naive to say the least.
I know I wouldn't part with such collectibles on his word alone, that's for damn sure. |
Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
413
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:These are incredibly rare and expensive artifacts of the past. Just handing them over without questioning the rather curious aspects of Tukoss' disappearance, reappearance, comms issues and other anomalies would be wildly irresponsible and dangerously naive to say the least.
I know I wouldn't part with such collectibles on his word alone, that's for damn sure.
And here we have someone who gets it. Thank you Ms Del'thul and Ms Ma'Chello for illustrating that caution need not be based on some apocryphal nonsense, but instead the practicalities of preserving possession, heritage and rarities.
Ofcourse, these are priate possessions and their owners are capsuleers, so they can do as they wish, but I'd hope the counsel of their peers would mean at least a little in how they choose to act.
CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: Adaptable Industry for an Unpredictable Cluster
Intaki Reborn.
Independent Capsuleer.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19917
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:40:33 -
[68] - Quote
Before I even bother to explain a damn thing, just what the hell do you mean by my reputation? Because if I'm about to walk into an argument against someone who has a biased opinion of me, I'm not even gonna try anymore.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
413
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:44:10 -
[69] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Before I even bother to explain a damn thing, just what the hell do you mean by my reputation? Because if I'm about to walk into an argument against someone who has a biased opinion of me, I'm not even gonna try anymore.
You have a reputation as an anarchic and somewhat unstable element in terms of action and opinion. Desirable traits in a killer and mercenary; not so much in an analysis of behaviour and the potential consequences of misplaced trust.
i appreciate you're very capable at the work you do in space, but i will admit to not placing you highly on a list of consultants on an issue such as this. However, if you have hard facts to bring to the table, I may have judged you poorly, and will ofcourse extend the appropriate apology.
CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: Adaptable Industry for an Unpredictable Cluster
Intaki Reborn.
Independent Capsuleer.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19917
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:47:29 -
[70] - Quote
Well, let's think for a second.
When was the last time you remember anyone or anything being able to hack into the databases hosting personnel information, such as Hilen here, and being able to fake employment history, name, face, etc, etc?
Cause I sure as **** don't remember that ever happening. And if it IS possible, why the flying **** would a thief waste time on getting some body parts using a doctor's identity from a project dead for three ******* YEARS?
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
413
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:50:17 -
[71] - Quote
You're really too agitated by such a peripheral issue. You should calm down.
Furthermore, those are not facts, they are as much supposition as my own statements. Thank you for your input, however, your point of view might not be one I personally hold to, and is posed rather aggressively, but it is certainly a potential. If this is truly the legitimate return of Hilen Tukoss, I am sure that some will be elated and others (notably the State) will be rather less so.
CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: Adaptable Industry for an Unpredictable Cluster
Intaki Reborn.
Independent Capsuleer.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19917
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Posted - 2014.10.29 20:54:02 -
[72] - Quote
Well, the guys in hiding so there really isn't a sure fire way to go and get a DNA sample to satisfy the skeptics. I don't see what's the worst that could happen here. OK, so some evil sleeper agent gets a Jove body in Eram. Oh darn, what do we do?
Kill him.
It's not like he can get anywhere without a ship. Pretty sure the body parts existing in the first place speak to that.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Norman Vales
Xim-Retni
1
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Posted - 2014.10.29 21:20:11 -
[73] - Quote
From what I can tell, the hexadecimal lines read like console messages. Why they're there is anyone's guess. Either way, I'm more interested in keeping Project Theta on track than tracking various squabbles. Further on the Project Theta note, I've reviewed the accumulated simulation data, and would like to inform the interested parties that the results have been published. |
Vincent Pryce
Utopian Research I.E.L.
178
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Posted - 2014.10.30 00:41:56 -
[74] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Pryce; some quick thoughts on identity. In the first place, Tukoss-haan's former employer was known for being on the bleeding edge of consciousness digitization. Their founder was evidently one of the first to undergo the process, even. What's more, we live in a world where memory engrams and skills can be imprinted on a mind by technical means; where consciousness can be scanned, backed up, or transmitted nearly-instantaneously to a fresh body, whose mind is a blank slate onto which a consciousness can be imprinted.
Clearly, 'mind' and 'body' are still linked-- but mostly due to the usual presumption that a biological brain is required for consciousness to exist. Clearly, this is a product of bias, not fact.
Now, a question for purpose of mental exercise. Let us say that a person suffers a blow to the head, and loses a portion of their memory, or their personality changes. While we will frequently say that they've changed, that they're a different person from their old self, we do not say that it is not the same person, excepting metaphorically. Similarly, let us say a mind-state transfer on clone activation goes awry, and the person loses a portion of their memory, etc.; we still consider it the same person, just, well, different. Why not apply this to a digitized consciousness?
What I suppose I'm saying is this: calling whatever is posting as Tukoss not Tukoss is, well, a little bit old-fashioned, provided that we're assuming that the security on the Summit is such that it can verify that the infomorph posting as Hilen Tukoss is indeed Hilen Tukoss, or a close enough simulacrum as to pass the security checks.
And ultimately, what's the harm in handing little pieces of Jove to him? I know this is a trope from terrible horror holos, but what's the worse that could happen? An improperly-digitized consciousness is imprinted onto a Jove body? And...? Biomass is cheap. The DNA isn't a superweapon. At worst case, he shows us how to use weird little facilities on wormhole space that we hadn't figured out before, or-- what?
Of course, this doesn't change that Tukoss abandoned an Ishukone subsidiary, and coerced capsuleers into firing on Ishukone ships during his flight to the Republic. Now, that is another thing entirely.
Giving someone the benefit of the doubt in this wonderful 'verse of ours is what gets you betrayed and at worst into an early grave, Priano. I'd imagine a capsuleer of your experience surely would know that by now, if not, I envy the idealistic naivete you still retain. More so goes with people who mysteriously disappear without a trace and then suddenly at the eve of new events arrives back to the scene posting in a manner uncharacteristic of them with radically different syntax and using hexadecimal code. That, my dear, is all the evidence I need to keep my guard up until I've been given reason to the contrary. I'm an old fashioned Angel, a gentleman's pirate. A healthy dose of paranoia is part of the decorum.
As for your questions and theoretical conundrums... I have no desire to get into a discussion about transhumanistic ideas, not in this vitriolic venue anyway. If you wish to continue this discussion further, you can reach me via the neocom system.
Vincent Pryce
Archangel of Asakai
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Malcolm Faust
Soldiers of Cthulhu
10
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Posted - 2014.10.30 03:24:22 -
[75] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:These are incredibly rare and expensive artifacts of the past. Just handing them over without questioning the rather curious aspects of Tukoss' disappearance, reappearance, comms issues and other anomalies would be wildly irresponsible and dangerously naive to say the least.
I know I wouldn't part with such collectibles on his word alone, that's for damn sure.
Nailed it.
I do support the dangerously na+»ve part though |
Ollie Rundle
190
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Posted - 2014.10.30 08:41:10 -
[76] - Quote
In its previous iteration, any requests made of the Arek'Jalaan Acquisitions department usually required a research proposal to accompany them in order for the project's contributors to judge whether release of valuable resources was justified. This protocol applied to everyone involved with the project, Tukoss included.
I am yet to see an explanation or proposal for how Tukoss intends to use the items he has recently requested and note that said items are perhaps the most unique of any item requested for any purpose by Arek'Jalaan since it was founded.
While such a decision ultimately rests with the leads of the Acquisitions and Security departments I would humbly suggest that it seems reasonable to withhold said items until Tukoss can present some explanation for why such difficult to obtain and rare objects are required.
**-á**
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Gehen Sealbreaker
Sealbreaker Labs
16
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Posted - 2014.10.30 12:48:11 -
[77] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:In its previous iteration, any requests made of the Arek'Jalaan Acquisitions department usually required a research proposal to accompany them in order for the project's contributors to judge whether release of valuable resources was justified. This protocol applied to everyone involved with the project, Tukoss included.
I am yet to see an explanation or proposal for how Tukoss intends to use the items he has recently requested and note that said items are perhaps the most unique of any item requested for any purpose by Arek'Jalaan since it was founded.
This.
Even if there were absolutely no doubts about Dr. Tukoss' sudden reappearance and identity, this is the major obstacle for such a request.
I would like to remind everyone here that at the same time, an official Symposium is currently held to determine how the newly resurrected Arek'Jalaan should be organized. I would like to invite all the former prominent members of Arek'Jalaan who have not yet participated to look at the proposals, question them, or even offer another one. The symposium first phase will end very soon now.
If my proposal was to be selected (with or without a few amendments), greenlighting (or not) Dr. Tukoss's project would, given the incredible resources asked, undoubtedly be a task for the Division Leaders Council. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5605
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Posted - 2014.11.02 06:47:21 -
[78] - Quote
I get the impression that someone needs a body.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Jaret Victorian
Crystalis Foundation
17
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Posted - 2014.11.02 12:41:04 -
[79] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I get the impression that someone needs a body.
Holy mother of missiles... All these body parts! That's a crazy theory, but you might actually be right. |
Tiber Brucato
The Scope Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.11.02 21:45:42 -
[80] - Quote
No fair. The last time I needed a body part I had to go ask a wizard. Got some nice shoes out of it though. |
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Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
319
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Posted - 2014.11.03 03:51:32 -
[81] - Quote
It's been a long time Hilen. I am pleased to see you are still alive.
My submissions are still in secure storage in the Site One archives. Eifyr has made no progress in the interim despite three years of "work". If they can't, or won't, do it, we need to find analysts who can produce results from elsewhere.
The time for theory is past. CONCORD has its eye on wormholes at last, and you know how that will turn out.
The next evolution is coming. Hurry back.
Author of Interstellar Privateer
Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
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Edvar Maulerant
University of Caille Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2014.11.04 03:35:22 -
[82] - Quote
My Master has requested I relay this message:
"It is obvious that Mr. Tukoss has gained access to a communications medium that he is not authorized to access. The messages being sent are text based; the coding is most likely machine code from the terminal he is accessing, untranslated. This is similar to coding used by certain operatives accessing clone implants in order to bypass CONCORD/Empire communication restrictions. It could also suggest a location outside of normal communications networks, such as within a Sleeper star system.
The items that Mr. Tukoss requests are interesting. It is believed by some researchers that the Sleepers are ancestors of the Jove. Seeking the only known (and widely accessible) sources of Jove DNA suggests an attempt to understand how Sleeper technology interacts with Jove physiology.
The potential applications for this are fascinating. Given the Mirror sites located in Sleeper territory and their information regarding neural degeneration, it is likely Mr. Tukoss is seeking to gain access to their network in a more direct manner. Bluntly, using a cloned Jove body to interact with the Sleeper network. It is likely that this will fail without substantial infomorph modification.
Likely results of misuse of this technology are... unpleasant at best, and a threat to the Cluster at worst.
I cannot fault the potential gains, however. It is what I would do if I had the opportunity and resources."
-Lord Amann Karris |
Ollie Rundle
196
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Posted - 2014.11.04 13:30:24 -
[83] - Quote
Edvar Maulerant wrote:The items that Mr. Tukoss requests are interesting. It is believed by some researchers that the Sleepers are ancestors of the Jove. Seeking the only known (and widely accessible) sources of Jove DNA suggests an attempt to understand how Sleeper technology interacts with Jove physiology.
The potential applications for this are fascinating. Given the Mirror sites located in Sleeper territory and their information regarding neural degeneration, it is likely Mr. Tukoss is seeking to gain access to their network in a more direct manner. Bluntly, using a cloned Jove body to interact with the Sleeper network. It is likely that this will fail without substantial infomorph modification. Interesting.
See also:
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
334
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:40:01 -
[84] - Quote
Now this is interesting. Sadly I have no interest in procuring body parts and no idea how to procure them even if I wanted to, so I will continue to observe this development from the outside. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
8313
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Posted - 2014.11.07 01:00:54 -
[85] - Quote
It appears my wish to collect one of each part will never come to fruition now ...
I am massively curious as to what this entails; anything to do with the Jovians interests me immensely. If you would benefit at all from the donation of a few 'Complex Fullerene Shard' s, I would be happy to help out (after all, they were also found in hangars after Misu Baniya's accident).
If at all possible, I would like to assist in the ongoing research; I can't help but wonder why Jovian biomass may be needed for something. The speculations of their connection to the Sleepers (not the drones, the bodies) are very interesting. And through the research my corporation has participated in I have gained knowledge of many things, but only have more questions than ever.
(OOC- something to do with the Jovians? Wow! I expect great things If you are going to create a Jovian clone, then this is going to be a big event!)
A City made of Wood is built in the forest
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven.
Jovian Proverb GÖâ
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1399
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Posted - 2014.11.07 04:08:01 -
[86] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:It appears my wish to collect one of each part will never come to fruition now ... I am massively curious as to what this entails; anything to do with the Jovians interests me immensely. If you would benefit at all from the donation of a few 'Complex Fullerene Shard' s, I would be happy to help out (after all, they were also found in hangars after Misu Baniya's accident). If at all possible, I would like to assist in the ongoing research; I can't help but wonder why Jovian biomass may be needed for something. The speculations of their connection to the Sleepers (not the drones, the bodies) are very interesting. And through the research my corporation has participated in I have gained knowledge of many things, but only have more questions than ever. (OOC- something to do with the Jovians? Wow! I expect great things If you are going to create a Jovian clone, then this is going to be a big event!) As far as I understand, the biomaterials under question should be of Jovian origin, and are rather hard to obtain. As I know, Dr. Tukoss doesn't accept just regular frozen corpses.
Taking into account your corporation, alliance and the nature of the materials under discussion, I believe you made a mistake appearing here, as someone could already wait for you behind the door with a prepared knife for material... extraction. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
8337
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Posted - 2014.11.07 04:36:20 -
[87] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:It appears my wish to collect one of each part will never come to fruition now ... I am massively curious as to what this entails; anything to do with the Jovians interests me immensely. If you would benefit at all from the donation of a few 'Complex Fullerene Shard' s, I would be happy to help out (after all, they were also found in hangars after Misu Baniya's accident). If at all possible, I would like to assist in the ongoing research; I can't help but wonder why Jovian biomass may be needed for something. The speculations of their connection to the Sleepers (not the drones, the bodies) are very interesting. And through the research my corporation has participated in I have gained knowledge of many things, but only have more questions than ever. (OOC- something to do with the Jovians? Wow! I expect great things If you are going to create a Jovian clone, then this is going to be a big event!) As far as I understand, the biomaterials under question should be of Jovian origin, and are rather hard to obtain. As I know, Dr. Tukoss doesn't accept just regular frozen corpses. Taking into account your corporation, alliance and the nature of the materials under discussion, I believe you made a mistake appearing here, as someone could already wait for you behind the door with a prepared knife for material... extraction. I am fully willing to cooperate- in fact, I've already donated a piece of Ambassador Baniya's biomass. The Jovians are my greatest interest- and I will involve myself with anything that may bring me closer to understanding them and, perhaps, associating with them
A City made of Wood is built in the forest
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven.
Jovian Proverb GÖâ
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
8337
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Posted - 2014.11.07 04:39:09 -
[88] - Quote
I have dedicated much time to studying the Sleepers and Jovians ... and all I will say is that they are linked in ways many wouldn't ever imagine
A City made of Wood is built in the forest
A City made of Stone is built in the mountains
But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven.
Jovian Proverb GÖâ
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Anslo
Scope Works
20967
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Posted - 2014.11.07 05:08:50 -
[89] - Quote
Like we said, progress will not be stopped~
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
327
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Posted - 2014.11.07 05:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Like we said, progress will not be stopped~
I think any organized resistance to it died with the Antiquarian dumping his stock, Anslo. |
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