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CorryBasler
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
87
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Posted - 2014.10.26 12:14:45 -
[31] - Quote
So this idea, works great for the dirty blobers as it means they only need 1 major FC to herd 1250 nerds around in spaceships instead of 1 major FC and 4 sub fc's to run the overflow fleets.
Having 5x as many people in fleet getting the same broadcast would just mean anything they shot would die, no matter how many logi the enemy fleet has, it could have 100x as many logi and everything including capitals would be alphed.
Only 1 atmost 2 groups in eve would ever be able to let alone want to fly in a 1250 man fleet
The groups now who can form say only 100 people on a max numbers alarmclock strat op have the ability to kill stuff when they fight 250 man fleets, just because the fleet size is larger doesn't mean those 100 man max numbers groups get any kind of benefit they get greatly nerfed. Maybe they could just hardly break targets against the 250 man fleet with 40 logi, but once they have to fight a fleet with 1 fc, 1 target broadcaster, and say 100 logi because its grown to 500 man fleet then nobody in that 100 man fleet would even have a chance of breaking 100 logi reps and then they would just all get alpha'ed by the 500 man fleet. |
Aliventi
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
776
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Posted - 2014.10.26 16:22:06 -
[32] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We will have five fleets rolled into one, how is this NOT a boost the large fleets? They will be five times more powerful.
So how is an organization that can only sport 150 going to do anything but die horribly? Logi is already far too effective in large numbers and you want to make them at least five times more powerful? God no. They are not more powerful than 5 individual fleets. 1+1+1+1+1 = 5. 5*1 = 5. The DPS and logi available to that side has not changed. The only thing that has changed is the ability to see the primary. That doesn't magically make their DPS or logi more powerful in any way. They still do the same damage and rep the same amount. Seeing the same broadcast really isn't beneficial because you can already alpha any subcap in the game with a 250 man fleet. 250 or 1250 people shooting at the target competently means it dies. That extra 1000 people, in either logi or DPS, grants you nothing.
Yes, a 150 man group should probably not be fighting a 1250 man group. They will be slaughtered. That won't happen because those 1250 people can see the same broadcasts. That is going to happen because their opponents are fielding 5x the DPS and 5x the logi. Which they are already doing, just in 5 separate fleets.
If you want to talk nerfing the blob fleet structures have nothing to do with it. In every case a competent 1000 is going to slaughter a competent 100. That is how Eve is. Like or not the ability to hold SOV is an N+1 game currently. It's an N+1 game because that is the best way to hold SOV. Nothing about the ability to field a 250 man or an up to 1250 man fleet is going to change that.
Milton Middleson wrote:Reduce wings to three squads and fleets to three wings. Problem solved. Er, wait.
Command and control issues are one of the logical weak points of massive fleets. Why mitigate that? Command and control issue won't go away if you want to win. We already know that a 250 man fleet can alpha anything off the field. So do you want to waste the shots of the other 1000? Or do you want to delegate the role of calling primaries to sub FCs so you can alpha more targets at the same time? What if the enemy is shooting multiple of your ships? Which broadcast for reps do you rep? Command and control getting to the battlefield is easier, but harder once you lose the ability to see 5 different broadcast systems. Now, player skill can make this less of an issue. If you can train people to have those skills then it becomes easier. Or if CCP implements a way for you to see only broadcasts fleet wide instead of armada wide.
Tappits wrote:I am pretty shore CCP have said they like the massive fights from a publicity point of view but donGÇÖt really like having them as itGÇÖs a pain on their end.. So I donGÇÖt see them coming up with a system to help massive coalitions forming massive fleetGÇÖs easier.
They have and I completely agree that massive fights are bad. But those changes will occur through CCP changing the SOV system to no longer creates incentives for N+1 play. There are many groups in Eve that do like flying with more than just 250 of their closest friends. Maybe it's 300. Maybe its 1250. If that is what you want to do then who am I, or CCP for that matter, to say no? Who am I to tell you you are playing Eve "wrong"?
CorryBasler wrote:So this idea, works great for the dirty blobers as it means they only need 1 major FC to herd 1250 nerds around in spaceships instead of 1 major FC and 4 sub fc's to run the overflow fleets.
Having 5x as many people in fleet getting the same broadcast would just mean anything they shot would die, no matter how many logi the enemy fleet has, it could have 100x as many logi and everything including capitals would be alphed.
Only 1 atmost 2 groups in eve would ever be able to let alone want to fly in a 1250 man fleet
The groups now who can form say only 100 people on a max numbers alarmclock strat op have the ability to kill stuff when they fight 250 man fleets, just because the fleet size is larger doesn't mean those 100 man max numbers groups get any kind of benefit they get greatly nerfed. Maybe they could just hardly break targets against the 250 man fleet with 40 logi, but once they have to fight a fleet with 1 fc, 1 target broadcaster, and say 100 logi because its grown to 500 man fleet then nobody in that 100 man fleet would even have a chance of breaking 100 logi reps and then they would just all get alpha'ed by the 500 man fleet. I answered most of these issues up with my replies to Baltec1 and Milton Middleson. Again, ships are already alphaed by 250 man fleets. That 100 man group is going to lose, not because their enemy can direct 500 people more effectively, but because their enemy is fielding 500 ships. A fleet structure that can support 500 people, instead of 250 people, has no effect on the outcome of that battle. Again C&C is still going to be a problem if you want to get the most out of your fleet. Up to 1250 people seeing the same broadcast does not mean they will automatically win. You still need lower level FCs to effectively direct the DPS and logi of the fleet. I will concede it does help with directing the fleet to and from the battlefield. Which is nice seeing how that has no bearing on the outcome of the fight and can help prevent FC burnout. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13712
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Posted - 2014.10.26 16:38:57 -
[33] - Quote
Aliventi wrote: I answered most of these issues up with my replies to Baltec1 and Milton Middleson.
No you didn't, you showed an utter lack of understanding of how the fleet mechanics work.
We have been trying to tell you how letting five fleets worth of logi into the same fleet would make us immortal to any fleet that cannot alpha a target off the grid. We have told you how five fleets worth of ships would alpha anything under a capital. We have told you that there is only one, possibly two groups in all of EVE could make use of this change.
You are ignoring what we are saying. I'll try again. With your idea you would get at the very least five fleets worth of logi (150 logi ships) that would all get the same broadcast. Right now in eve 4 out of the 5 fleets would not get that broadcast. This means under your idea nothing could hurt us as nobody has the numbers to counter our massed logi.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Aliventi
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
776
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Posted - 2014.10.26 16:55:58 -
[34] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We have been trying to tell you how letting five fleets worth of logi into the same fleet would make us immortal to any fleet that cannot alpha a target off the grid. We have told you how five fleets worth of ships would alpha anything under a capital. We have told you that there is only one, possibly two groups in all of EVE could make use of this change.
You are ignoring what we are saying. I'll try again. With your idea you would get at the very least five fleets worth of logi (150 logi ships) that would all get the same broadcast. Right now in eve 4 out of the 5 fleets would not get that broadcast. This means under your idea nothing could hurt us as nobody has the numbers to counter our massed logi. Five fleets of logi will not make you immortal. 150 logi will not stop your ships from being alphaed. If it turns into a DPS race then the 5 fold increase in DPS ships seeing the broadcast will be able to focus more fire at the target. Which means those 150 logi ships able to see that broadcast is the only chance you have of saving those ships under that intense of fire.
Five fleets worth of ships can alpha anything under a capital sized ships. There is nothing stopping you from currently focusing 5 fleets worth of fire on a single target. So.. there is no change in an Armada environment. I will say it again: a 250 man fleet can already alpha almost any subcap ship in the game. Five fleets or one fleet that ships will die is alphaed properly.
You are wrong that there are only "one, possibly two groups in all of EVE could make use of this change." There are dozens of groups that fly with overflow fleets currently. What you should have said is that there is one, possibly two groups in all of EVE that can fill an Armada. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6464
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Posted - 2014.10.26 17:07:49 -
[35] - Quote
Let's do it.
The Hamilton wrote:So to get maximum boosters for a 6 man fleet we need a "Fleet Booster" + "Armada Booster". That's asking a lot for the little guy. A buff for the solo (with falcon alt) (with booster alt) (with scout alt) pvpers?
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13712
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Posted - 2014.10.26 18:07:10 -
[36] - Quote
Aliventi wrote: Five fleets of logi will not make you immortal. 150 logi will not stop your ships from being alphaed. If it turns into a DPS race then the 5 fold increase in DPS ships seeing the broadcast will be able to focus more fire at the target. Which means those 150 logi ships able to see that broadcast is the only chance you have of saving those ships under that intense of fire.
Nobody can alpha out ships today, who is going to be doing it under your plan? You are making it impossible for 90% of the playerbase to hurt us.
Aliventi wrote: Five fleets worth of ships can alpha anything under a capital sized ships. There is nothing stopping you from currently focusing 5 fleets worth of fire on a single target.
The mechanics do. You cannot see the broadcasted target outside of the fleet and trying to organise 5 fleets onto the same target is very hard to do.
Aliventi wrote: So.. there is no change in an Armada environment. I will say it again: a 250 man fleet can already alpha almost any subcap ship in the game. Five fleets or one fleet that ship will die is alphaed properly.
No they cant, only a few types of fleet can do that. Under your plan a fleet of frigates could do it.
Aliventi wrote: You are wrong that there are only "one, possibly two groups in all of EVE could make use of this change." There are dozens of groups that fly with overflow fleets currently. What you should have said is that there is one, possibly two groups in all of EVE that can fill an Armada.
Only one powerblock can field the flight of a 1000 megathrons.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Banko Mato
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:28:27 -
[37] - Quote
No, NO, NOOOO!
This idea is bad beyond terrible. The only thing it would accomplish is to enable N+1 people to more effectively act as a single unit/pilot. And that is the exact opposite of what is needed to fix the blob game. Maybe you should have a read at this and get a grip of what the real issues are. As others have already stated the better route might be worth considering, which means shrinking fleet size. Imho the game should never award you for amassing a huge pile of monkeys in that it makes things easier (alpha/rep broadcasts for 250/1250 ppl). On the other hand it shouldn't punish the same behavior on a general level (telling a logi in the same wing/squad should always be possible without hindrance). BUT I strongly believe the mechanics should make it increasingly difficult to organize an ever-growing number of pilots to do the exact same thing at the exact same target at the exact same time. And that is something your idea would make far too easy, therefore it should never get implemented!
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Tappits
north eastern swat Pandemic Legion
64
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Posted - 2014.10.26 22:22:23 -
[38] - Quote
You know the idea is not good when a goon guy (the people that it would help the most in eve) says its a bad idea and would be bad for the game. |
Luwc
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2014.10.27 07:55:59 -
[39] - Quote
1250 ishtars...
welcome to eve 2015
> Mass sentries > Go afk > ??? > Profit
http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
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Tappits
north eastern swat Pandemic Legion
64
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Posted - 2014.10.27 08:51:07 -
[40] - Quote
Luwc wrote:1250 ishtars...
welcome to eve 2015
> Mass sentries > Go afk > ??? > Profit
Maybe you should read up on how drones assign works now before posting things. |
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13717
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Posted - 2014.10.27 11:40:45 -
[41] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Luwc wrote:1250 ishtars...
welcome to eve 2015
> Mass sentries > Go afk > ??? > Profit Maybe you should read up on how drones assign works now before posting things.
No no, let them go afk
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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rsantos
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
23
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Posted - 2014.10.27 15:10:09 -
[42] - Quote
More TIDI Feasts PLEASE! |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
174
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Posted - 2014.10.27 15:12:50 -
[43] - Quote
rsantos wrote:More TIDI Feasts PLEASE! I don't like eating in TiDi, as it takes too long to get full that way. Now, if you mean TIDI fests, I'm still not down, because who likes to party slow.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6465
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Posted - 2014.10.27 15:30:59 -
[44] - Quote
TiDi fatigue means that I have to wait 3 days before TiDiing again.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Jherik
League of xX420BLAZEITSWAGGOTXx. Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2014.10.27 19:29:22 -
[45] - Quote
No because coordinateing 5 fleets on the field at the same time should be difficult. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1340
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Posted - 2014.10.27 20:12:55 -
[46] - Quote
OP never had to find a name in a super long overview to rep x random dude out of his fleet if he does not see how this change would make logi more powerful. |
Luwc
Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole
268
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Posted - 2014.10.30 09:24:44 -
[47] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Luwc wrote:1250 ishtars...
welcome to eve 2015
> Mass sentries > Go afk > ??? > Profit Maybe you should read up on how drones assign works now before posting things.
maybe you should read up on how the changes didnt do **** against mass ishtars before posting things.
go drop some supers on t1 cruisers while you still can.
http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
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