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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2014.10.26 18:17:38 -
[31] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Black Panpher wrote:Zen Guerrilla wrote:The thing most of the anti-carebear brigades do not get is this:
You can not force a carebear into lowsec/nullsec or even WHs. You will simply force him out of the game.
I don't understand what the obsession is with making highsec less safe. They're playing a different game there. Let em have it. It's not like they're hurting anyone. This ^ My rebuttal is this. If you are the kind of "player" who will quit the game if your near-absolute safety is lowered, you are not wanted in EVE. Pretty much every single part of this game has eaten a nerf over the course of EVE's history for the sake of the health of the game. But you say you should be immune to this, or you'll quit? Gtfo with that entitled bullshit. That's not reasonable, that's just childish and selfish. Yes, highsec will be made less safe eventually. Yes, you lot will actually have to put some tiny amount of effort into defending yourselves. If that's a deal breaker for you, if actually playing the game is out of the question in your mind, then just quit right now. You aren't contributing anything anyway, beyond your own selfish little niche.
My rebuttal is this.
How dare someone play Eve the way they want to and not want to be forced into playing the way you want them to. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21112
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Posted - 2014.10.26 18:23:11 -
[32] - Quote
Desimus Maximus wrote:For one, CODE. would only reside in 0.8-1.0 Their killboard say otherwise, while they may spend most of their time in highsec some of them appear to be holidaying in Tama where they are the second most active alliance at the moment.
Quote:For another, it would be just like the rest of lowsec... boring, dead and full of 'leet' pirate pvpers gate camping trade routes. Have you been to lowsec? It's completely possible to go there without having to run gatecamps, it just takes a little planning.
Quote:What I want to know is what would happen if every Goon or PL member left the game forever... Boredom caused by a lock of content creators.
Quote:You would have fun again. No coward agreements. Real fights would actually happen again. So the fights that happen now are entirely imaginary?
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21113
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Posted - 2014.10.26 18:27:09 -
[33] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:My rebuttal is this.
How dare someone play Eve the way they want to and not want to be forced into playing the way you want them to. Do you know what hypocrisy is?
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10287
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Posted - 2014.10.26 18:29:11 -
[34] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote: My rebuttal is this.
How dare someone play Eve the way they want to and not want to be forced into playing the way you want them to.
No one is saying mining shouldn't exist, or misioning, or ship spinning or pretending to be a pretty unicorn princess. We are saying that you don't get to hold the game hostage to benefit yourself, when such a thing comes at the detriment of game balance.
If you think "fit a tank" somehow means "forcing" you to play the way you don't want to, you won't be missed when you quit. If you think having to bother defending yourself is not the way you want to play, you won't be missed when you quit.
If losing a little bit of the almost perfect safety you currently have is a deal breaker, then you do not belong here. Be gone.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.10.26 18:37:48 -
[35] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Syn Shi wrote: My rebuttal is this.
How dare someone play Eve the way they want to and not want to be forced into playing the way you want them to.
No one is saying mining shouldn't exist, or misioning, or ship spinning or pretending to be a pretty unicorn princess. We are saying that you don't get to hold the game hostage to benefit yourself, when such a thing comes at the detriment of game balance. If you think "fit a tank" somehow means "forcing" you to play the way you don't want to, you won't be missed when you quit. If you think having to bother defending yourself is not the way you want to play, you won't be missed when you quit. If losing a little bit of the almost perfect safety you currently have is a deal breaker, then you do not belong here. Be gone.
We are saying that you don't get to hold the game hostage to benefit yourself, when such a thing comes at the detriment of game balance.
And forcing players who don't want to pvp, to pvp, isn't holding another payer hostage to benefit you?
Seems to me someone just wants their fun at the expense of someone else's fun.
Moving on. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10287
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Posted - 2014.10.26 18:51:12 -
[36] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote: And forcing players who don't want to pvp, to pvp, isn't holding another payer hostage to benefit you?
No, because that's what EVE is. I can't count how many Dev statements I have seen that state unequivocally that EVE is a PvP game first, last, and always.
You people seem to think that Super Mario is a spelunking game. It's not, but you're welcome to play it like that. What you aren't welcome to is to demand that Nintendo change Super Mario to cater to your specific misuse of the game.
Quote: Seems to me someone just wants their fun at the expense of someone else's fun.
That's what non consensual PvP is, after all. It's a cornerstone of EVE Online, as stated by the developers many times.
You seem to think that it should stop existing. You're wrong.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Commentus Nolen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:02:59 -
[37] - Quote
What if you flip in on it's head.
An alien NCP fleet invades Null, destroying every thing in their path as they sweep thru systems. Even stuff stored in bases would be destroyed or unavailable for anyone who left anything behind. Chasing everyone into low sec and high.
Then after a month or two they just disappear and now all null is up for grabs.
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:25:03 -
[38] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Syn Shi wrote: And forcing players who don't want to pvp, to pvp, isn't holding another payer hostage to benefit you?
No, because that's what EVE is. I can't count how many Dev statements I have seen that state unequivocally that EVE is a PvP game first, last, and always. You people seem to think that Super Mario is a spelunking game. It's not, but you're welcome to play it like that. What you aren't welcome to is to demand that Nintendo change Super Mario to cater to your specific misuse of the game. Quote: Seems to me someone just wants their fun at the expense of someone else's fun.
That's what non consensual PvP is, after all. It's a cornerstone of EVE Online, as stated by the developers many times. You seem to think that it should stop existing. You're wrong.
Who said anything about pvp not happening in Eve. Pvp happens in high, null, low and wh space.
Do you play Eve, you seem to think there is not allot of opportunity to pvp.
This is nothing more than someone wanting to grief people who make the choice not to pvp. Nothing more.
And for the record....all you null-bears becoming friends in nullsec tells a different story. |
olla Alduin
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:25:24 -
[39] - Quote
WHAT IS EVE ONLINE? EVE Online is a massively multiplayer online game set 23,000 years in the future. As an elite pilot of one of the four controlling races, you will explore, build, and dominate across a universe of over 7,000 star systems. Sandbox gameplay and advanced skill-based progression provide you with a truly unique experience as you rise to power among the stars.
Takes sides in factional warfare. Join an alliance and wage epic battles for sovereignty over star systems. Discover wormholes leading to unknown regions of space. Uncover pirate outposts and lucrative resources hidden in the far reaches of the cosmos. The possibilities are endless in EVE Online.
Pretty much covers pvp and pve, like it or not. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10290
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:37:21 -
[40] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote: This is nothing more than someone wanting to grief people who make the choice not to pvp. Nothing more.
PvP is not griefing. Whether you agreed to it or not. CCP strictly defines griefing, and it doesn't fit what you seem to be calling it.
Their "choice" does not matter. PvP belongs everywhere in EVE, because EVE is a PvP game.
Quote: And for the record....all you null-bears becoming friends in nullsec tells a different story.
I live in highsec, numbskull. But thanks for the obvious strawman, I didn't think you had a real argument anyway.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:40:18 -
[41] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Syn Shi wrote: This is nothing more than someone wanting to grief people who make the choice not to pvp. Nothing more.
PvP is not griefing. Whether you agreed to it or not. CCP strictly defines griefing, and it doesn't fit what you seem to be calling it. Their "choice" does not matter. PvP belongs everywhere in EVE, because EVE is a PvP game. Quote: And for the record....all you null-bears becoming friends in nullsec tells a different story.
I live in highsec, numbskull. But thanks for the obvious strawman, I didn't think you had a real argument anyway.
Of course you do. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:41:36 -
[42] - Quote
................................ |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10291
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:43:55 -
[43] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Syn Shi wrote: This is nothing more than someone wanting to grief people who make the choice not to pvp. Nothing more.
PvP is not griefing. Whether you agreed to it or not. CCP strictly defines griefing, and it doesn't fit what you seem to be calling it. Their "choice" does not matter. PvP belongs everywhere in EVE, because EVE is a PvP game. Quote: And for the record....all you null-bears becoming friends in nullsec tells a different story.
I live in highsec, numbskull. But thanks for the obvious strawman, I didn't think you had a real argument anyway. Of course you do.
Yes, I do have a real argument. I was stating that you do not, hence your strawman. A long time ago I was a line member in a nullsec alliance, but after the Great War resulted in my being homeless I have wandered about in a period of extended vagrancy. (not in real life, the EVE Great War)
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10291
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:45:03 -
[44] - Quote
Although it should have been obvious to me that you didn't have a real argument anyway, given that you are posting as a worthless NPC alt.
Seems it's time to renew the "Ban NPC corps from posting in GD" movement again.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Mag's
the united
18102
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:52:08 -
[45] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:How dare someone play Eve the way they want to and not want to be forced into playing the way you want them to. But that's the whole point. In this sandbox we call Eve, people will and do interfere with your game. It's not forcing you to do anything, it's simply the reality of the game.
You don't play chess, then complain the pieces don't move like checkers. So why complain about competition, in a game which allows anyone to compete with you?
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Josef Djugashvilis
2624
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:53:12 -
[46] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Although it should have been obvious to me that you didn't have a real argument anyway, given that you are posting as a worthless NPC alt.
Seems it's time to renew the "Ban NPC corps from posting in GD" movement again.
Poor Kaarous, always so angry...
Why does it matter if someone uses an NPC alt to post?
It is just your way of trying to belittle someone.
You are still my favourite crazy poster.
This is not a signature.
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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2127
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Posted - 2014.10.26 19:57:07 -
[47] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seems it's time to renew the "Ban NPC corps from posting in GD" movement again.
You have my Ibis.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21129
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Posted - 2014.10.26 20:02:31 -
[48] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Seems it's time to renew the "Ban NPC corps from posting in GD" movement again.
You have my Ibis. And my Slasher
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
341
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Posted - 2014.10.26 20:41:22 -
[49] - Quote
Without reading the first post my answer is mayhem, absolute mayhem.
edit: oh and you can have my velator but don't scratch the paint, ok. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
560
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Posted - 2014.10.26 21:30:39 -
[50] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Although it should have been obvious to me that you didn't have a real argument anyway, given that you are posting as a worthless NPC alt.
Seems it's time to renew the "Ban NPC corps from posting in GD" movement again. I do not see your real life credentials posted anywhere. So to me, like the rest of the anonymous posters on this forum, you're just another person connected to the net to me.
And I am not fond of people in real life in general. |
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Serene Repose
1572
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Posted - 2014.10.26 21:32:25 -
[51] - Quote
The areas of space people don't use would get even bigger.
What would happen if the people who want to play low sec went out to low sec and played low sec?
Oh, I know. This a stealth "low sec is lonely, how can I force people to come play with me" thread.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1157
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 23:09:28 -
[52] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Although it should have been obvious to me that you didn't have a real argument anyway, given that you are posting as a worthless NPC alt.
Seems it's time to renew the "Ban NPC corps from posting in GD" movement again.
uh huh
... and create a "one man GD posting corp" problem instead :D |
Mag's
the united
18103
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 23:31:45 -
[53] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Although it should have been obvious to me that you didn't have a real argument anyway, given that you are posting as a worthless NPC alt.
Seems it's time to renew the "Ban NPC corps from posting in GD" movement again. uh huh ... and create a "one man GD posting corp" problem instead :D Oh come on, this is an old argument and has been talked to death. CAOD has shown this restriction can work, just not how you depict it.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Zappity
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
1478
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Posted - 2014.10.27 00:18:58 -
[54] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:No, because that's what EVE is. I can't count how many Dev statements I have seen that state unequivocally that EVE is a PvP game first, last, and always. Can someone link me some of these statements? I'm interested because I have always understood differently as per this one (which you have probably all seen before):
CCP Ytterbium wrote:We often hear "EVE is a PvP game, PvE is secondary". To this we would like to respond that EVE is a sandbox and shouldnGÇÖt necessarily favor one side over the other. What you do with it is up to you: all player activities should feel as appealing and rewarding no matter which choice you take, as long as you are willing to live up with the consequences of your actions. Link: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2462718#post2462718
As for the OP I don't think making lowsec larger will improve much. I'd very much like to see dynamic sec status (Uedama would be 0.4 in about three minutes) especially since this would result in a less contiguous highsec. And highsec pockets in deep null :)
But I don't really care if some people choose to play their game in the relative safety of highsec. I'm sure CCP appreciates the subs and I'd prefer more players than less.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10312
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Posted - 2014.10.27 01:10:55 -
[55] - Quote
Zappity wrote: Can someone link me some of these statements?
Here's a recent one.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4964192#post4964192
That sums it up pretty nicely. Upon reading it, I called it the "Falcon Punch".
For a more detailed summary, I suggest this delightful minerbumping article.
http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/08/falcon-punch-ccp-fights-for-its-soul.html
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10312
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Posted - 2014.10.27 01:15:21 -
[56] - Quote
If you want an older source, here is a direct quote from the game's FAQ:
New Pilot FAQ wrote: 5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED? In EVE Online, any player may attack any other player if they choose to, no matter where they happen to be. This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core.
Emphasis mine, of course.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Nevil Oscillator
40
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Posted - 2014.10.27 02:19:48 -
[57] - Quote
Yolandar wrote:
Security status a thing of the past. An outlaw in Caldari space could be a hero in The Federation. And you could let the FW peeps do hunting too, give em those LPs and standings for killing their enemies.
I've been suggesting that too, got called a troll for it.
I haven't moved on to what to do with Concord because I think this one is a bit more tricky.
I like the OP idea, maybe it is a little to detailed with specifics but in essence perhaps there lies a solution in the direction.
The predictability of security level that Concord can be timed to always arrive to the nearest second.
The reliability of Concord, that it can permanently guarantee that level of security
As previously suggested for null, borders could temporarily move into low sec raising the sec level or something similar.
Another devious suggestion
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1159
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Posted - 2014.10.27 02:27:23 -
[58] - Quote
1) Being an open-PVP sandbox does not translate into the devs should change the rules to force everyone to PvP. That removes the sandbox.
2) If there is really a need to force PvE players to PvP ( a hopeless exercise as they will quit rather than PvP) the place to start is the renters in bluesec. Bluesec renters are much more PvP adverse than hisec just fly through a renter system as a non blue and see what happens.
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Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
55
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Posted - 2014.10.27 02:28:09 -
[59] - Quote
There would be new forum posts speculating about what would happen if CONCORD left 0.8, 0.9 and 1.0 systems... oh yeah, and people would complain about how dead the new low sec 0.5, 0.6 and 0.7 systems had become...just sayin' |
Zappity
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
1479
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Posted - 2014.10.27 05:35:10 -
[60] - Quote
Thanks for the quotes Kaarous. I was aware of the Falcon posts but don't think they quite translate to this situation. There is a difference between maintaining risk in highsec and converting highsec to lowsec.
The level of risk in EVE is already significantly higher than in many other MMOs because of permanent loss. As long as there is reasonable risk of such loss in all spaces (perhaps excluding some noob zones) then I don't have a problem with people choosing to play the game more safely.
We currently have a situation where something like the Hulk which gives good yield is not really tenable in many areas because it is so easy to gank. This sounds balanced to me.
Hasikan Miallok wrote:1) Being an open-PVP sandbox does not translate into the devs should change the rules to force everyone to PvP. That removes the sandbox. Pretty much this.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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