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Xanato Kaso
Kaso Enterprises
19
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Posted - 2014.10.26 07:31:40 -
[1] - Quote
So when training skills when do you decide getting a skill from IV to V is not worth it? And I mean skills that level V is not required for a another skill. At what point do you say, I am not wasting that much time for level V.
For me, if it takes more than a week I will probably not train a skill to V unless it is needed or does something special. Like as much as I love my Paladin, I will probably never Get marauders V. Or the Tracking enhancing skill that takes 13 days to train. |
Velarra
325
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Posted - 2014.10.26 15:15:40 -
[2] - Quote
Rationally, - a V isn't worth it if it's the only V you're considering in a category and its gains vs. time to acquire are extremely marginal. For instance weapon specialization skills that add 2% to the spec.
Later, when for whatever reason, you start running out of skills to train, - I'd suggest that again, single V's don't really matter particularly those that add only a tiny margin of improvement. However, at that point in time, skilling up pockets of focused and acutely related V's that alone offer marginal increase might be seen as worth it if you skill the full, complimentary set.
One might also apply the latter to an acutely focused alt (eg. ship-type/class alt, ) to squeeze the most out of its SP. Particularly if it will permanently stop training once its skilling for its intended role is complete. |
Xanato Kaso
Kaso Enterprises
19
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Posted - 2014.10.27 01:57:25 -
[3] - Quote
Velarra wrote:Rationally, - a V isn't worth it if it's the only V you're considering in a category and its gains vs. time to acquire are extremely marginal. For instance weapon specialization skills that add 2% to the spec.
Later, when for whatever reason, you start running out of skills to train, - I'd suggest that again, single V's don't really matter particularly those that add only a tiny margin of improvement. However, at that point in time, skilling up pockets of focused and acutely related V's that alone offer marginal increase might be seen as worth it if you skill the full, complimentary set.
One might also apply the latter to an acutely focused alt (eg. ship-type/class alt, ) to squeeze the most out of its SP. Particularly if it will permanently stop training once its skilling for its intended role is complete.
You seemed to miss the point of the post. I wasnt looking for advice, or a how to be a cookie cutter. I was looking to create an anecdotal thread of when you just throw your hands up and say "F**K it Im not waiting that long for a skill" |
Ria Nieyli
21919
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Posted - 2014.10.27 07:27:18 -
[4] - Quote
Xanato Kaso wrote:Velarra wrote:Rationally, - a V isn't worth it if it's the only V you're considering in a category and its gains vs. time to acquire are extremely marginal. For instance weapon specialization skills that add 2% to the spec.
Later, when for whatever reason, you start running out of skills to train, - I'd suggest that again, single V's don't really matter particularly those that add only a tiny margin of improvement. However, at that point in time, skilling up pockets of focused and acutely related V's that alone offer marginal increase might be seen as worth it if you skill the full, complimentary set.
One might also apply the latter to an acutely focused alt (eg. ship-type/class alt, ) to squeeze the most out of its SP. Particularly if it will permanently stop training once its skilling for its intended role is complete. You seemed to miss the point of the post. I wasnt looking for advice, or a how to be a cookie cutter. I was looking to create an anecdotal thread of when you just throw your hands up and say "F**K it Im not waiting that long for a skill"
"Do I need another skill more than I need this?"
If yes, train the other skill. If no, train the skill I'm debating. It can get a bit wonky when you've put together a 5-year skillplan as some of the choices are not immediately obvious unless you take the whole plan into account, but the basic principle is there.
Mirrored eyes
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
813
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Posted - 2014.10.27 13:05:24 -
[5] - Quote
Usually for me it comes down to how many ships said skill applies to. If it applies to all ships then I don't mind how long it takes.
Not today spaghetti.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
BFG Tech
25
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Posted - 2014.10.27 17:06:31 -
[6] - Quote
Xanato Kaso wrote:So when training skills when do you decide getting a skill from IV to V is not worth it? And I mean skills that level V is not required for a another skill. At what point do you say, I am not wasting that much time for level V.
For me, if it takes more than a week I will probably not train a skill to V unless it is needed or does something special. Like as much as I love my Paladin, I will probably never Get marauders V. Or the Tracking enhancing skill that takes 13 days to train. I just train up all non capital skills matching my current attributes to 5. The new unlimited skill queue will come in very handy for this.
GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ
-áDominique Vasilkovsky
GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4284
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Posted - 2014.10.28 07:15:54 -
[7] - Quote
Ask yourself, "Will another skill benefit me more NOW than this one?"
Only train level 5 if: * It is a skill you personally consider indispensable. * It is a prerequisite for something you really want, and will affect your current gameplay (not future gameplay). * You want to specialize, at the price of less versatility. * You have nothing else to train.
Example: I trained Launcher Rigging 5 for a fit that I really wanted to use. It is the only rigging skill I have at level 5. I won't bother to train the others until I need them, or run-out of other more important skills to train. Oh, and I no longer use that fit.
I don't find any skill I want, or need, and am ready for, to be too long to train. If you do, that's a hint you shouldn't be training it yet. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
324
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Posted - 2014.10.28 08:06:30 -
[8] - Quote
I would say that, in general terms, it's probably 1-2% of the character's age. Obviously there are other considerations: What else is there to train? What else needs to be trained? What is the remap suited to? How much playtime will benefit from the investment? Mining [5] doesn't unlock anything of real benefit to most younger characters - however someone who sees themselves as a miner is likely to train it reasonably early because it effects a very high proportion of their playtime. (and of course) Might I have won that fight if..? |
Jur Tissant
The TERRA Guardians of Serenity
262
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Posted - 2014.10.28 13:19:40 -
[9] - Quote
I almost never train V unless it's necessary for a much better module, a ship, or another skill. The exception is in PI where I train CCU/IC to V for obvious reasons. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
890
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Posted - 2014.10.28 15:41:04 -
[10] - Quote
I still have a lot of skills at level 3. Sometimes, I'd rather train a skill I use to V, than train 2 or 3 shorter skills to IV.
If I use the ship, or use the skill on a regular basis, I want all the relevant the skills at V. When I make my decision on 'what's next', it generally revolves around, 'what am I flying next week'.
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Jeremy Kamira
19
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Posted - 2014.10.28 18:19:27 -
[11] - Quote
I am quite new, so my opinion won't be worth as much as other's, but this is how i see it.
Training a skill from 1-4 means you get 80% of the bonus, and it takes 25% of the total time to train it to V. Training a skill from 4-5 means you get 20% of the bonus, and it takes 75% of the total time to train it to V. (these are just rough estimates)
I personally feel like training all the skills to 80% is good enough, and that you need to focus training all of your other relevant skills to IV first before you consider any V's (Not including any pre-requisite items)
TLDR: Train everything relevant to IV before considering training it to V |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4285
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Posted - 2014.10.28 21:11:21 -
[12] - Quote
Jeremy Kamira wrote:Training a skill from 1-4 means you get 80% of the bonus, and it takes 25% of the total time to train it to V. Training a skill from 4-5 means you get 20% of the bonus, and it takes 75% of the total time to train it to V. (these are just rough estimates) Exact numbers (because I'm OCD).
Level 4: 45255 skill points * rank Level 5: 256000 skill points * rank
Level 4 vs. Level 5: 45255 / 256000 = 17.67% of the training time.
So level 4 is 80% of the benefit for 17.67% of the training time. |
Hippinse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.11.02 03:18:28 -
[13] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Jeremy Kamira wrote:Training a skill from 1-4 means you get 80% of the bonus, and it takes 25% of the total time to train it to V. Training a skill from 4-5 means you get 20% of the bonus, and it takes 75% of the total time to train it to V. (these are just rough estimates) Exact numbers (because I'm OCD). Level 4: 45255 skill points * rank Level 5: 256000 skill points * rank Level 4 vs. Level 5: 45255 / 256000 = 17.67% of the training time. So level 4 is 80% of the benefit for 17.67% of the training time.
Pfft. Then explain what happened to the missing 2.33%, Professor?!? |
Anthar Peva
Trident Guard
2
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Posted - 2014.11.02 03:35:02 -
[14] - Quote
Hippinse wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Jeremy Kamira wrote:Training a skill from 1-4 means you get 80% of the bonus, and it takes 25% of the total time to train it to V. Training a skill from 4-5 means you get 20% of the bonus, and it takes 75% of the total time to train it to V. (these are just rough estimates) Exact numbers (because I'm OCD). Level 4: 45255 skill points * rank Level 5: 256000 skill points * rank Level 4 vs. Level 5: 45255 / 256000 = 17.67% of the training time. So level 4 is 80% of the benefit for 17.67% of the training time. Pfft. Then explain what happened to the missing 2.33%, Professor?!? O.o Unless this was sarcasm (which I can't detect).. Are you an idiot? The 80% and the 17.67% are 2 different stats. 80% is the % of the benefit that you get and 17.67% is the % of the training time it takes to get 80% |
GordonO
Brave Newbies Inc.
75
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Posted - 2014.11.02 22:21:58 -
[15] - Quote
depends on what you plan to fly and spend most of youre time in. ie, if you plan to spend a lot of time recon ships, then level 5 is very handy, best to check ship bonus's.
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Casey Fisher
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.11.04 22:29:52 -
[16] - Quote
Hippinse wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Jeremy Kamira wrote:Training a skill from 1-4 means you get 80% of the bonus, and it takes 25% of the total time to train it to V. Training a skill from 4-5 means you get 20% of the bonus, and it takes 75% of the total time to train it to V. (these are just rough estimates) Exact numbers (because I'm OCD). Level 4: 45255 skill points * rank Level 5: 256000 skill points * rank Level 4 vs. Level 5: 45255 / 256000 = 17.67% of the training time. So level 4 is 80% of the benefit for 17.67% of the training time. Pfft. Then explain what happened to the missing 2.33%, Professor?!?
lol Biomass yourself. Professor!! |
NeCrox
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.11.06 00:18:54 -
[17] - Quote
I personally train all the skills to 5 why you ask because 1 I may need it 5 for something else or 2 that bonus just might save your butt in a fight . in the end it all works out |
ggodhsup
internet spaceship relocation movement
14
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Posted - 2014.11.14 21:54:46 -
[18] - Quote
i only train to 5 if i need every bit of benefit possible, ie. , weapon and drone skills and ship skills like racial cruiser and relating t2 skills.
actually on my main right now its pretty much all lvl 5 training....little more gratification but it takes forever sometimes.
im really disliking only getting one or two skills in a sub period.
oh yeah and casey fisher, your avatar is awesome. |
Awesome MILF
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.11.14 23:00:34 -
[19] - Quote
From my experience level 5 makes a big difference, although the theoretical numbers seem small, every bit counts.
In example sometimes you improve a 2% damage here, or a 3% rate of fire there, and suddenly the rats get killed 25% faster. Not sure if you share this feeling. |
Dir Zen
Tax Haven 5.0
0
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Posted - 2014.11.18 04:52:02 -
[20] - Quote
Awesome MILF wrote:From my experience level 5 makes a big difference, although the theoretical numbers seem small, every bit counts.
In example sometimes you improve a 2% damage here, or a 3% rate of fire there, and suddenly the rats get killed 25% faster. Not sure if you share this feeling.
Yeah I feel you. It has to do with the quicker breaking of the target's tank which means less active/passive repairs can be done, which in turn speeds up the kill much more than say a flat 2 or 5% increase. This took a while for me to realize, at least. So level 5's are a major increase in your combat performance, even if it doesn't look like much. |
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Firestorm Delta
Aphotic Machina
45
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Posted - 2014.11.19 00:45:46 -
[21] - Quote
For me it comes down to two things:
1 - Will this skill benefit me in the short term? 2 - Will I need to train other skills to make the most of it?
If the skill will benefit me in the short term I will almost always train it to V, unless situation two comes into play. For example, I can't use T2 turrets of any size at the moment, and while I'd like to fix this I also need to train many core gunnery skills up to make good use of said turrets. Meanwhile I have both Cruise V and Marauders V in my immediate queue because one will give me an alternative to T2 Torps on my Golem, and the other will let me Improve my Golem fit further. Both of these will benefit me upon completion, and neither has additional skills I need to train alongside them since my missile skills are all pretty solid at this point. |
Ishen Villone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
37
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Posted - 2014.12.16 01:27:41 -
[22] - Quote
General skills that affect all ships should be among the first you get to V. Cap management, fitting skills, etc.
Any Tech II pre-reqs are also important.
Recon V Best V. |
Mashie Saldana
Lock'n'Point Warp to Cyno.
1471
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Posted - 2014.12.28 15:25:33 -
[23] - Quote
Lvl 5s are awesome. Personally, I'm obsessed with lvl 5 skills. But for example weapon specializations V aren't worth it IMO. Especially large weapon specializations. Almost 2m sp for 2% dps increase is meh. But it's nice to fly a ship that's maxed out.
On the other hand, I've spent 26 days training large beam laser spec to lvl 5 and I don't think I'm ever gonna use that, I don't fly amarr battleships. But....it's so yellow...so shiny...so precious
I'd sacrifice my best friend in his best ship just to get more lvl 5s.
How to win EVE
Shiny eveboard
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
BFG Tech
79
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Posted - 2014.12.28 23:20:06 -
[24] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Lvl 5s are awesome. Personally, I'm obsessed with lvl 5 skills. But for example weapon specializations V aren't worth it IMO. Especially large weapon specializations. Almost 2m sp for 2% dps increase is meh. But it's nice to fly a ship that's maxed out.
On the other hand, I've spent 26 days training large beam laser spec to lvl 5 and I don't think I'm ever gonna use that, I don't fly amarr battleships. But....it's so yellow...so shiny...so precious
I'd sacrifice my best friend in his best ship just to get more lvl 5s. It's only so many skills you can bring up to lvl 5 before you have to do capitals or non-PVP skills. It will be interesting to see what you will train after June when Mashie should be 100% maxed out in subcapitals.
GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ
-áDominique Vasilkovsky
GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ
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Mag's
the united
18407
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Posted - 2014.12.29 10:44:57 -
[25] - Quote
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Lvl 5s are awesome. Personally, I'm obsessed with lvl 5 skills. But for example weapon specializations V aren't worth it IMO. Especially large weapon specializations. Almost 2m sp for 2% dps increase is meh. But it's nice to fly a ship that's maxed out.
On the other hand, I've spent 26 days training large beam laser spec to lvl 5 and I don't think I'm ever gonna use that, I don't fly amarr battleships. But....it's so yellow...so shiny...so precious
I'd sacrifice my best friend in his best ship just to get more lvl 5s. It's only so many skills you can bring up to lvl 5 before you have to do capitals or non-PVP skills. It will be interesting to see what you will train after June when Mashie should be 100% maxed out in subcapitals. I love Mashie's sheet, it looks great.
I have wondered though about what qualifies as 'maxed out'. I have pondered over training certain ship skills, I.E. industrial ones. They can and are used in PvP, this also includes the orca. But so far have not and decided on a more pure route. I just don't like the idea of having mining related skills in my sheet.
I have a number of years to go yet to reach my goal of having all PvP skills at 5, but then I was foolish enough to include capital skills.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
BFG Tech
81
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Posted - 2014.12.29 11:06:21 -
[26] - Quote
Mag's wrote:I have wondered though about what qualifies as 'maxed out'. I have pondered over training certain ship skills, I.E. industrial ones. They can and are used in PvP, this also includes the orca. I define maxed out as when you see no difference between your char and the "All level 5" character in EFT for any ship fit.
GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ
-áDominique Vasilkovsky
GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ
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Tsukino Stareine
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
770
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Posted - 2014.12.29 12:21:46 -
[27] - Quote
Things to train to V:
stuff that unlocks modules or ships stuff that unlocks ability to make fits work (logi V for example) stuff that has much higher benefit the higher it's trained, aka exponential increase (armour and shield comps) |
Mashie Saldana
Lock'n'Point Warp to Cyno.
1493
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Posted - 2014.12.29 15:35:11 -
[28] - Quote
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Lvl 5s are awesome. Personally, I'm obsessed with lvl 5 skills. But for example weapon specializations V aren't worth it IMO. Especially large weapon specializations. Almost 2m sp for 2% dps increase is meh. But it's nice to fly a ship that's maxed out.
On the other hand, I've spent 26 days training large beam laser spec to lvl 5 and I don't think I'm ever gonna use that, I don't fly amarr battleships. But....it's so yellow...so shiny...so precious
I'd sacrifice my best friend in his best ship just to get more lvl 5s. It's only so many skills you can bring up to lvl 5 before you have to do capitals or non-PVP skills. It will be interesting to see what you will train after June when Mashie should be 100% maxed out in subcapitals.
Probably Black ops and jump drive skills.
How to win EVE
Shiny eveboard
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Mag's
the united
18411
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Posted - 2014.12.29 15:53:32 -
[29] - Quote
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:Mag's wrote:I have wondered though about what qualifies as 'maxed out'. I have pondered over training certain ship skills, I.E. industrial ones. They can and are used in PvP, this also includes the orca. I define maxed out as when you see no difference between your char and the "All level 5" character in EFT for any ship fit. I would also include leadership, which can also be a part of EFT.
TBH I'm now training for the sake of it and the whole level 5 thing is to pass the time. For the time it takes and the gain to be had, level 5 is a bit of a wanton luxury.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
BFG Tech
84
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:Mag's wrote:I have wondered though about what qualifies as 'maxed out'. I have pondered over training certain ship skills, I.E. industrial ones. They can and are used in PvP, this also includes the orca. I define maxed out as when you see no difference between your char and the "All level 5" character in EFT for any ship fit. I would also include leadership, which can also be a part of EFT. TBH I'm now training for the sake of it and the whole level 5 thing is to pass the time. For the time it takes and the gain to be had, level 5 is a bit of a wanton luxury. (In many but not all skills, I might add.) I'm getting everything int/mem up to 5 for the next 18 months followed by anything charisma based the following 18 months so that will cover the leadership skills. The need to train really ended a few years ago, now it's just a case of getting everything to 5 in the next 10 years doing the capital stuff last.
Dominique Vasilkovsky EVEboard
Once known as:
Mashie Saldana sold - Anastasia Rigel sold - Monica Foulkes sold
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