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Vas Vadum
Viziam Amarr Empire
92
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Posted - 2014.10.27 10:22:47 -
[1] - Quote
Currently, all of highsec is in the center, lowsec surrounding that, null outside that. These 4 factions are supposed to not be getting along too well, correct? So why are they clumped in against each other like so?
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30270697/images/CurrentEVEMap.png
What would happen, if we switched this around? Light blue = highsec, yellow = lowsec, red = nullsec.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30270697/images/InvertedEVEMap.png
The 4 empires would be split off from each other, separated by lowsec systems. I know, my image editing skills aren't that great, I tried my best though.
This would make prices different throughout all 4 empires, people who want to export from one empire to the other, would have to take a risky journey between them.
You could also delete concord from the game, and let empire police take care of the problem like concord would normally do. Your sec status would change based on the empire space you enter, this includes lowsec. So things you do bad in one empire space would only affect you there. You could be a -10 outlaw in Amarr, but a +10 hero in Minmatar.
Anyway, I'm just wondering why CCP chose to clump all of highsec together, rather than split it up like so. What made the devs decide to go this route rather than another route? Makes you wonder on a lot of things really, but I mainly wanted to know about this, which could be a big economy drive in the game, rather than making people choose either highsec or nullsec. This method I suggested above, will let people choose 4 different highsec systems to live in and 4 different markets which might even have a specialization in each empire having specific ships flooding the markets on those areas, creating the need for import/export. Lots of interesting things really.
What are your thoughts CCP? And everyone else who is more likely to reply than devs. xP |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6183
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Posted - 2014.10.27 10:25:39 -
[2] - Quote
redundant
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Vas Vadum
Viziam Amarr Empire
92
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Posted - 2014.10.27 10:53:20 -
[3] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:redundant Your post is redundant. You provide no reasons whatsoever why my post is "redundant". It is an actual curiosity, something think people would find interesting to know.
I would have provided more detail for the idea originally, but realized CCP would never change the game up like this at this point, so it was more of a question for them, for why the game wasn't like this in the first place. I doubt even if you spent 2 years moving highsec outwards from each other at this point that you could do it. At best, you could move the actual systems, not deleting anything anyone has, but that'd also be pretty hard to do as well so. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6184
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 11:10:40 -
[4] - Quote
Separate the four empires with low security space.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Vas Vadum
Viziam Amarr Empire
92
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 11:20:08 -
[5] - Quote
This isn't a suggestion thread. It can't be done anymore at this point. Plus I don't see any developer replies in that except the first one which wasn't really a reply towards the topic.
Though I wish I had seen his topic before hand, it does have a lot better detail in it, as I would have had in mine had I wanted to provide the detail, but I was mining at the same time as typing it so I had to keep checking my screen every 2 minutes :P |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
768
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Posted - 2014.10.27 11:21:12 -
[6] - Quote
What Ralph is saying is that some of the ideas you mentioned are mostly used by trolls and are re-appearing every once in a while for years. Some of them have serious responses about why the proposed ideas are bad. As the following topics are discussed over and over again over the years, any further discussion is mostly regarded as redundant: - split empires with lowsec; - remove concord with or without replacing it with faction police (some are even mentioning "player police" instead);
o.0
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1200
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Posted - 2014.10.27 11:29:13 -
[7] - Quote
To fairly answer your original question, what impact would this have on the game, it would turn nullsec into a tiny area, that could easily be controlled by 1 single large coalition, or 2, creating a far more toxic pvp environment than currently exists know. Players would feel like the empire building aspect of the game was gone, and that the game had turned into highsec/lowsec paradise. While it might not kill Eve, I think it would make for a very dull game compared to what we have now. |
Hicksimus
Plan-It Xpress Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
389
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Posted - 2014.10.27 11:49:34 -
[8] - Quote
I've got a better idea. Seeing as CONCORD can't keep Uedama safe CCP should turn Uedama into a nullsec system.
Do you have it?
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
139
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Posted - 2014.10.27 12:05:34 -
[9] - Quote
second thread that im hearing about uedama.
what goes on there?
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Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
768
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Posted - 2014.10.27 12:16:11 -
[10] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:second thread that im hearing about uedama.
what goes on there?
A lot of suicide ganking.
o.0
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Vas Vadum
Viziam Amarr Empire
92
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Posted - 2014.10.27 12:16:11 -
[11] - Quote
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:What Ralph is saying is that some of the ideas you mentioned are mostly used by trolls and are re-appearing every once in a while for years. Some of them have serious responses about why the proposed ideas are bad. As the following topics are discussed over and over again over the years, any further discussion is mostly regarded as redundant: - split empires with lowsec; - remove concord with or without replacing it with faction police (some are even mentioning "player police" instead); Well, this is a much better post on why, rather than a one word post "redundant".
These ideas come up every so often because players want to see this sort of thing, common ideas mean more players think of it and would like to see it, the more often an idea is come up by individuals, the more often it might get posted, showing how popular the idea is amongst the players.
I do admit it is a very complex idea, but again, I posted this in General Discussion, because it is an idea that can't be done. I simply wanted to know why CCP went with centering highsec rather than centering nullsec.
Arronicus wrote:To fairly answer your original question, what impact would this have on the game, it would turn nullsec into a tiny area, that could easily be controlled by 1 single large coalition, or 2, creating a far more toxic pvp environment than currently exists know. Players would feel like the empire building aspect of the game was gone, and that the game had turned into highsec/lowsec paradise. While it might not kill Eve, I think it would make for a very dull game compared to what we have now.
True enough, or maybe pvp would evolve a different way. Currently one empire controls so much space, because it is on one side of the universe and the enemy is very far away. pvp would become much more often if everyone were next to each other. But I do see how it might make it possible for one to control all the space, it is less likely though. Game balancing would also find a way to take care of this even.
Maybe, instead of putting highsec on the exact edges, put a little bit of nullsec in the center, and all around the outside, have 4 points of highsec with lowsec in between in a donut formation, lowest lowsec systems in the very center between those 2 empires. Now you have a nullsec in the center, and on the outside as well. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2332
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:19:50 -
[12] - Quote
Vas Vadum wrote:Currently, all of highsec is in the center, lowsec surrounding that, null outside that. These 4 factions are supposed to not be getting along too well, correct? So why are they clumped in against each other like so? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30270697/images/CurrentEVEMap.png What would happen, if we switched this around? Light blue = highsec, yellow = lowsec, red = nullsec. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30270697/images/InvertedEVEMap.png The 4 empires would be split off from each other, separated by lowsec systems. I know, my image editing skills aren't that great, I tried my best though. This would make prices different throughout all 4 empires, people who want to export from one empire to the other, would have to take a risky journey between them. You could also delete concord from the game, and let empire police take care of the problem like concord would normally do. Your sec status would change based on the empire space you enter, this includes lowsec. So things you do bad in one empire space would only affect you there. You could be a -10 outlaw in Amarr, but a +10 hero in Minmatar. Anyway, I'm just wondering why CCP chose to clump all of highsec together, rather than split it up like so. What made the devs decide to go this route rather than another route? Makes you wonder on a lot of things really, but I mainly wanted to know about this, which could be a big economy drive in the game, rather than making people choose either highsec or nullsec. This method I suggested above, will let people choose 4 different highsec systems to live in and 4 different markets which might even have a specialization in each empire having specific ships flooding the markets on those areas, creating the need for import/export. Lots of interesting things really. What are your thoughts CCP? And everyone else who is more likely to reply than devs. xP
Because it basically fits any model of colonization/expansion (or however you want to phrase it). I look at this like the US expansion into the wild west somewhat like HS vs 0.0
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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2130
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:20:56 -
[13] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:second thread that im hearing about uedama.
what goes on there?
In Uedama....
The blood of the capsuleer gods flows red....
Like the rivers of ancient Babylon.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4084
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:32:29 -
[14] - Quote
So.. Why isn't Europe full of little lawless areas? Why isn't there a DMZ between Canada and America.
The empires aren't exactly at war. They just have proxy battles, out in the FW regions. Fullscale conflict just isn't sustainable.
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6185
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:44:15 -
[15] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:second thread that im hearing about uedama.
what goes on there?
cattle mindlessly marching.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
140
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 13:03:33 -
[16] - Quote
id imagine that the map is generated by scientists/cartographers commissioned by the hi sec empires.
Think about it if u were commissioned to make a map of space by nasa. wouldn't you use earth as the central point and map in a sphere from there?
uedama...lol |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
237
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 13:09:10 -
[17] - Quote
Redundant
In addition to that, poster did something similar to 'swatting'. Was banned and should've been permanent. |
Hra Neuvosto
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
325
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 13:09:18 -
[18] - Quote
ur mum's in the center dragging everything in lmao |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
768
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 13:26:39 -
[19] - Quote
Vas Vadum wrote:Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:What Ralph is saying is that some of the ideas you mentioned are mostly used by trolls and are re-appearing every once in a while for years. Some of them have serious responses about why the proposed ideas are bad. As the following topics are discussed over and over again over the years, any further discussion is mostly regarded as redundant: - split empires with lowsec; - remove concord with or without replacing it with faction police (some are even mentioning "player police" instead); Well, this is a much better post on why, rather than a one word post "redundant". These ideas come up every so often because players want to see this sort of thing, common ideas mean more players think of it and would like to see it, the more often an idea is come up by individuals, the more often it might get posted, showing how popular the idea is amongst the players. I do admit it is a very complex idea, but again, I posted this in General Discussion, because it is an idea that can't be done. I simply wanted to know why CCP went with centering highsec rather than centering nullsec.
Reposting a bad idea multiple times by multiple players does not make it a good idea.
Anyway, since I'm waiting for some MySQL import to finish, I'll list some of the reasons :
- nullsec was a lot smaller when I started to play the game and has been expanding ever since. For example, Drone regions were not available when I started to play. Expansion of nullsec can be done by expanding direct access null (null with connections to empire space) or by expanding deep null. If the null is initially set to be in the middle and all of it designed to be near empire, that philosophy should continue through the expansions of null otherwise you'll expand deep null and beat the purpose (read: have the same situation as now). If you only expand null near the empire, it's not really an expansion since the new space is completely the same as the old one - easily accessible. Thus, the expansion of null if it is centered on the map is pointless by design, since you'll either end up with the same situation as now or with an inability to add meaningful null space in any future expansion;
- regarding why the empires were not separated from the beginning, there were many reasons, most notably:
- the amount of players was very small, since the game was in its beginnings. There were no player owned stations as they couldn't even be built at the time. If you are making a new MMO, you want your players to interact as soon as possible. Having a new MMO feel empty by spreading players on vast distances separated by dangerous space is not a good way to launch;
- Many ships or even whole ship types that exists now and are helpful in many areas, from mining to industry and PvP including capitals, didn't exist for years after the launch of the game. Even now, spreading the empires and dividing them with lowsec would be a pain to manage by players with all the tools we have at our disposal. Imagine separating the space and players in a time when 100 mil ISK was huge and when you simply had to mine for days in a Thorax to get enough minerals in order to build your first battleship because you simply could not just buy it on the market. Yes, this is exactly what many players back then were doing.
And what would be accomplished by separating the empires now? It's certainly not more interesting gameplay - it would rather be less movement between empires. Trade opportunity? Well, no. Players have been living in deep null and having supply lines from higsec for years. If you think that they have been utilizing their space and resources to build stuff locally, think again ... or even better, open the map in game and filter industry jobs... even now, with unlimited slots in player owned stations (let alone POS-es) and bonuses to industry and refining in null compared to the rest of the game. The movement would be limited, highsec ecosystem divided to smaller player bases, player mobility decreased and trade/prices would be mostly unaffected. The only difference would be that the transport would be done either by jump freighters or convoys, like it has been done in nullsec for years and that the level of entry to hauling/trade business would be much higher for new players or small groups. That's not a good design for an MMO that plans to last for over a decade as EVE is, since it provides much more advantages to older/more experienced/richer players than now. You want your players to be able and willing to interact as early as possible when they are ready to do so. Highsec has been an incubator for new players, corporations and alliances more that null ever was. Sure, there are some that have jumped right into null after hearing about EVE in some news article, but those could hardly be called majority and it started to happen more frequently relatively recently (a couple of years back) when EVE battles started to hit the news. Back in the old days the natural progression was highsec, a bit of skills, finding friends, forming a corp with a goal to move to low/null. Splitting the new players by game design wold only make it harder for them to communicate and explore the game.
Of course, the distance between empire regions if the map was reversed would become a huge problem as well. If you haven't noticed, the empire space is pretty much the same everywhere. There are small differences that only provide change of scenery and pace that drive player movement now - epic arcs, COSMOS constellations, slightly different ores... The content is pretty much the same, the scenery and story is slightly different. Traveling a couple of jumps to have a bit of story/scenery change drives the player movement. Separating the empires would only cause that movement to be worthless and meaningless compared to the effort needed to travel.
o.0
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I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1255
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 13:27:19 -
[20] - Quote
Someone must have read the Features & Ideas section and seen that thread about this very subject, eh? |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8752
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 13:27:44 -
[21] - Quote
And now for the obligatory Battletech reference. The New Eden "Empires" are basically the "Inner Sphere" and null sec is "The Periphery" (complete with capsuleer "Bandit Kingdoms"). I'm not the 1st EVE player to notice the similarities between Battletech and EVE Online lol.
Separating the Empires with low sec would not do what people think it would. It would cause people to brave low sec, what commerce that did happen would happen via wormhole connections or jump freighters. And it would have other complicated effects that wouldn't be good for the game. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2100
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 14:12:06 -
[22] - Quote
Vas Vadum wrote:This isn't a suggestion thread. It can't be done anymore at this point. Plus I don't see any developer replies in that except the first one which wasn't really a reply towards the topic.
Though I wish I had seen his topic before hand, it does have a lot better detail in it, as I would have had in mine had I wanted to provide the detail, but I was mining at the same time as typing it so I had to keep checking my screen every 2 minutes :P
So, in other words your thread is both redundant *AND* pointless?
I agree. Lock dis.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2100
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Posted - 2014.10.27 14:41:27 -
[23] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Redundant
In addition to that, poster did something similar to 'swatting'. Was banned and should've been permanent.
This little rat OP is a "swatter"? Yeah, he can pretty much go for a long walk. Screwing with people, IRL, for things they did in a game is pathetic.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3449
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Posted - 2014.10.27 14:49:45 -
[24] - Quote
Quote:17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. Thread closed.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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