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Natasha Donnan
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
8
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Posted - 2014.10.27 16:37:20 -
[1] - Quote
I've pondered whether to write this post for a while but in the end though sod it, why not, I have an opinion, share it and see if others agree or not.
1. Evictions as content is not good for w-space.
I have heard a lot of spiel from the leaders of prominent w-space corps over the last months. They have been talking about w-space needing more players, and that they are "sad about the way that the largest corps mop up most of the incoming players", they say that w-space needs many more smaller corporations in it for it to work.
But then there are the actions of the same corporations attempting to evict people in the name of "content". As a director of a medium sized corporation my immediate response to this "content" is to think that I need more players in my home to help me defend it when they come for us. Which means that for me the actions that these corporations are currently undertaking have completely the opposite effect of the gospel they are preaching.
2. Embrace the blue doughnut.
There is a lot of talk about the blue doughnut of w-space, and contrary to general opinion on these forums I am ok with it, haters are gonna hate, but w-space is not null, we do not live under the same rules as them. We don't have to kick people out of systems just because that's what the game mechanics dictate you do in 00. I for one absolutely love the fact that we fight each other one day and join up the next "for the greater good". I do not see that as a negative for the way we live, in fact it is one of the things that attracted me to w-space in the first place.
The idea of fighting with (and possibly losing) a 20b isk t3 fleet is fine with me and absolutely part of what I want out of my pvp, however do I really want to lose everything I have in system in the name of "content"? No I don't, and I think if people gave you a truthful answer most others wouldn't either.
Anyway, that's my 2p, I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed for it, but meh. |
Peronelle
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.10.27 17:05:07 -
[2] - Quote
If you think evictions are bad for content, then why do you have members of your corp inside J150020?
Unless you are complaining about sitting 48 hours straight in the same wormhole with 400 people doing absolutely **** all, that this, is not actually content.
Also you earn something like +/- 2.7T / year if you run sites everyday in a C6, so its not like losing all your assets inside is the end of the world. |
RudinV
Hard Knocks Inc. Irresponsible Use of Capital.
431
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Posted - 2014.10.27 17:12:02 -
[3] - Quote
23/7 carebearing as content is not good for w-space. |
Natasha Donnan
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
10
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Posted - 2014.10.27 17:45:09 -
[4] - Quote
Peronelle wrote:If you think evictions are bad for content, then why do you have members of your corp inside J150020?
Unless you are complaining about sitting 48 hours straight in the same wormhole with 400 people doing absolutely **** all, that this, is not actually content.
Also you earn something like +/- 2.7T / year if you run sites everyday in a C6, so its not like losing all your assets inside is the end of the world.
Post with your main.
We were asked to help so we went, and it was boring, NOHO had already got everything wrapped up by the time we got there. Plus, I can have the opinion that evictions as content are bad for w-space and still go to help defend a hole, the two things do not oppose each other.
Quote:23/7 carebearing as content is not good for w-space.
Agreed, but don't know what that adds to this thread. |
Peronelle
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2014.10.27 18:00:01 -
[5] - Quote
Natasha Donnan wrote: it was boring
I can assure you that being on the receiving side of a eviction is much less boring, a fact which you should be able to empirically confirm soon enough. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
732
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Posted - 2014.10.27 18:06:10 -
[6] - Quote
Peronelle wrote:Natasha Donnan wrote: it was boring I can assure you that being on the receiving side of a eviction is much less boring, a fact which you should be able to empirically confirm soon enough. #shotsfired
I'm right behind you
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350125GO
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
121
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Posted - 2014.10.27 18:28:21 -
[7] - Quote
Natasha Donnan wrote:I've pondered whether to write this post for a while but in the end though sod it, why not, I have an opinion, share it and see if others agree or not.
1. Evictions as content is not good for w-space.
What about evictions on principal?
You're young, you'll adjust.
I'm old, I'll get used to it.
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Aladar Dangerface
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
17
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Posted - 2014.10.27 18:42:28 -
[8] - Quote
350125GO wrote:Natasha Donnan wrote:I've pondered whether to write this post for a while but in the end though sod it, why not, I have an opinion, share it and see if others agree or not.
1. Evictions as content is not good for w-space.
What about evictions on principal? Last one we done was awful 350, u know it man^^
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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Credacom
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
6
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Posted - 2014.10.27 19:25:44 -
[9] - Quote
evictions are good for WH space pve is good pvp is good mining is good
anything that gets people outside their POS shields and able to be targeted by someone else = good for WH space
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scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
311
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Posted - 2014.10.27 19:44:54 -
[10] - Quote
Natasha Donnan wrote:I've pondered whether to write this post for a while but in the end though sod it, why not, I have an opinion, share it and see if others agree or not.
1. Evictions as content is not good for w-space.
Do you want goons? Because that's how you get goons. |
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Nero Pantera
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
62
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Posted - 2014.10.27 20:06:54 -
[11] - Quote
Not every corp/alliance wants to sit at 300 odd members in the fear that they will need to defend themselves against these 100man t3/capital gangs that seem to like evicting people.
One day there going to hit a small/medum corp that always pvp's with everyone win or lose who can really only field 20 or 30 guys and they will be able to do sweet **** all but die in a fire. Im all for evicting people but theres no ******* point in even trying to really defend if the eviction fleet that your facing up against is 100 or so strong t3/capitals and your long established group of 30 guys accustomed to running 20 to 30 guys using very well designed doctrines of t3 blapping/capital pvp.
If you want content by eviction then evict people who can fight back, if your so obsessed with getting good fights and pvp then surely someone who can field the numbers you want in a fight is something that would make that eviction attractive? Evicting a small pvp corp for example would be completely pointless.
The sizes of corps/alliances atm is really making wormhole space unattractive.
Im sorry that I originally moved here for the small to medium gang pvp/capital pvp....not 100/200man t3 fleets. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
377
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Posted - 2014.10.27 21:31:05 -
[12] - Quote
Let the evictions cpntinue. Let it spill over in to the street. Our content carousel is not complete until the major entities start feeding on each other because they've killed off everything else.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015
T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346
LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Jay Joringer
United System's Commonwealth
419
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Posted - 2014.10.27 21:53:38 -
[13] - Quote
It's very easy to make negative assumptions about evictions. As with many things, it is massively dependent on the attitude of those involved.
On the face of it, if an entity is removed and then dissolves out of wormholes entirely, yes that could be perceived as detrimental. But is it?
My first venture into wormholes was from investing level 4 mission ISK into a a medium tower and anchoring it in a C3. The guys that evicted us went on to use the system for themselves and it would have been easy to give up and try something else but we learned from experience and got right back into it.
Knowing what I know now, handing WH space to people on a silver plate because people think anything else would be bad for the environment is the greater of the two evils. Learning things the hard way enriches the environment. I know the initial statement was more aimed towards higher class groups, but it's all a slice of the same pie.
http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk
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Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
742
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Posted - 2014.10.27 22:07:29 -
[14] - Quote
Evictions are dumb. They remove content from WH space. You can make the argument that an eviction is content, however, it's a single burst of content. By evicting a group out of a WH you decrease content over time for other entities. People complain about there being empty holes, but then dickstroke about evictions.
I feel like most corps aren't like ADHOC or that other one who will go back to WHs after getting evicted. You can say "Oh this corp will totally come back to WHs after we destroyed all their ****", but has anyone gone back through their list of evictees and seen if they've actually come back?
Is carebearing 23/7 dumb? Absolutely. I don't think it's a reason to evict someone though. When they carebear they provide gank targets. In a C5, that's usually cap gangs, and everyone likes to kill caps. In a lower class hole, it's tengus or drakes, which, while not the greatest, are still something to kill.
People talk about giving fights to not get evicted, but when you can field ~20-30 people in a fleet and they can't, how the **** are they going to fight you? If they just constantly whelp into you, will you be appeased? Maybe they fight people who aren't you, and by evicting them you're depriving other WH corps of content.
tl;dr evictions are cancer and are boring as ****
The only thing evictions are good for were the dank callout threads that happened over the summer.
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3873
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Posted - 2014.10.27 22:49:28 -
[15] - Quote
Evictions are very bad for WH space and have always been so. Invading someone's home and attacking them? sure that's find and good content but actually coming in with an overwhelming force to just remove them? That isnt good or fun for anyone and it certainly isnt content.
I highly disagree with the blue donut being ok though. it is 100% not needed in whs and all it leads to is people having access to huge, unopposable forces which they'll inevitably want to take advantage of, generally in the form of evicting people what as discussed above is terrible for WH space.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
851
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Posted - 2014.10.27 22:55:22 -
[16] - Quote
End of the day its certainly not high sec and never should be too safe.
But I'm not personally a fan of removing people "just because", seen a few medium sized entities burnt to the ground who did one way or another provide content and for the most part didn't do anything (atleast to my knowledge) to warrant it.
Won't see me shedding tears though if people who bear 23x7 get kicked out. |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3873
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Posted - 2014.10.27 22:56:48 -
[17] - Quote
I'll add that kicking someone out because you want their specific system to live in is one of the few acceptable eviction reasons.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
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Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
475
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Posted - 2014.10.28 03:31:41 -
[18] - Quote
I have to say that our old C5 was a noose around our necks and most of us are glad to be rid of it. Did we like losing our accumulated stuffs? No. That always sucks but it was the medicine we needed to cure our disease.
I have to say that ADHC is the exception to the rule, and most people either implode or don't come back after losing the home they worked long and hard to build. For us it's been a catalyst for activity. We'll be back to W-space at some point. We're taking a long needed break and purging old bad habits in the process.
Carebears are typically the victims of getting evicted and the standards to which those individuals are held vary widely, corp by corp. We've done our fair share of peter ops and our halls are decorated with the corpses of flash-crashing bears that dared name their towers "Elite PvP". They lose it all and because they are motivated purely by milking the teats of Sleepers, they don't come back.
Evictions aren't good or bad. They're just something that happens for "reasons". It could be because you're bored, insulted, have a long standing grudge, or simply want to experience what it's like pushing someone's sandcastle over.
The "unpopulatedness" of C5 space has little to do with evictions and mostly to do with the chasm in terms of skill training that it takes to make C5's a worthwhile endeavor.
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3875
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Posted - 2014.10.28 04:38:24 -
[19] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:The "unpopulatedness" of C5 space has little to do with evictions and mostly to do with the chasm in terms of skill training that it takes to make C5's a worthwhile endeavor. this is bullsh!t and you know it. C5s are no harder to live in than C1s and 2s and anyone claiming otherwise is either ignorant or pushing an agenda.
C5s are not 'unpopulated', they have the same level of population as all other classes of WHs: low.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
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Tuscor
United System's Commonwealth
81
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Posted - 2014.10.28 08:29:34 -
[20] - Quote
I've been in and out of Wormholes since ~2011. I've been on the receiving end of evictions twice, and one corp I was in had to move out of a WH 'under threat' when our CEO fell out with the Alliance leadership (back in Talocan United days).
I still live in a WH and most of the guys I flew with over the years still do too. The evictions did not stop me and my corpies from coming back.
Evictions every weekend are clearly not sustainable - but the odd eviction, be it for loot, killmails, to settle an old grudge or to kick up the dust is part of living in WH's and part of the uncertainty of this way of life. If you are doing it right, an eviction will not be an 'extinction event' for your corp...
We recently invaded a C5... we got a good fight from the locals, we could have been beaten if they had bought more WH appropriate ships (ie fitted their armageddons with neuts not missiles). We even offered to leave after the fight for a nominal fee but the locals preferred to go down fighting...
Anyway, the point is, conflict is fun, being on the receiving end of an invasion is stressful but can be entertaining and if it leads to people leaving WH space for good, maybe they should not have been there in the first place... |
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Nero Pantera
Whale Girth Grand Sky Wizards
67
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Posted - 2014.10.28 09:17:50 -
[21] - Quote
Tuscor wrote:I've been in and out of Wormholes since ~2011. I've been on the receiving end of evictions twice, and one corp I was in had to move out of a WH 'under threat' when our CEO fell out with the Alliance leadership (back in Talocan United days).
I still live in a WH and most of the guys I flew with over the years still do too. The evictions did not stop me and many of my corpies from coming back (albeit not always in the same corp).
Evictions every weekend are clearly not sustainable - but the odd eviction, be it for loot, killmails, to settle an old grudge or to kick up the dust is part of living in WH's and part of the uncertainty of this way of life. If you are doing it right, an eviction will not be an 'extinction event' for your corp...
We recently invaded a C5... we got a good fight from the locals, we could have been beaten if they had bought more WH appropriate ships (ie fitted their armageddons with neuts not missiles). We even offered to leave after the fight for a nominal fee but the locals preferred to go down fighting...
Anyway, the point is, conflict is fun, being on the receiving end of an invasion is stressful but can be entertaining and if it leads to people leaving WH space for good, maybe they should not have been there in the first place...
Yeah I'm sure its fun when your not facing a 99 man t3/dread capital fleet from bluebuttdonutlover'sanonymous, however for us 20 to 30 man active pvp entities it will never anywhere close to "fun" because it wouldn't even be a fight. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
196
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Posted - 2014.10.28 09:30:36 -
[22] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote: C5s are not 'unpopulated', they have the same level of population as all other classes of WHs: low.
In C5 space we used to roll for action several times a night, scan down 20 holes deep every time and then log off because there was nobody out there. In C4/C2 space we almost never need to roll, since there's actually people about and flying in space. The difference is dramatic and C5 space is like a bad memory of a desolate, sad place.
Moving out of C5s was the best decision we made and cured all frustration and boredom.
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Tuscor
United System's Commonwealth
82
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Posted - 2014.10.28 09:32:19 -
[23] - Quote
Yeah, fair enough, being steam-rolled is rarely enjoyable. However, the reality is that unless your 20-30 man corp has pissed off this supposed 'bluebuttdonutlover'sanonymous' either by being dorks, or not bringing the fights (presumably not a problem if you are active pvpers), then practically speaking you are not likely to face eviction by an overwhelming force. |
Mithandra
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
211
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Posted - 2014.10.28 10:14:24 -
[24] - Quote
My opinion.
Eviction to claim the hole for your own is good. Its content
Joining up to protect someone elses hole if asked is good. Its content
Joining a fleet to go shoot those self same people a few days later is good. Its content
justifying your actions by pontificating about the evils of the corp/alliance/donkey bangers in question is idiocy. Admit it's due to boredom or greed and lets get to it
I'm a little vague about how evicting a corp/alliance improves WH space though.
And finally, if we are the next to face an eviction for actually turning up for a fight , then if BoB wills it. So be it. No tears here, it's all part of the rich tapestry of eve
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
1947
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Posted - 2014.10.28 10:29:56 -
[25] - Quote
Good for wormholes?
Not really. The majority of people find them boring and rarely make any isk from it. If you're not doing it to take the system, evictions only serve to make corp/alliance leaders feel special and give their members something to do.
What should be talked about more are the small corps who plan an eviction and execute it on their own to demonstrating the power of small gangs in wormhole space. Instead all we hear about are the evictions that involve massive coalition dogpiling on one entity and why would anyone come to wormhole space to take part in blob warfare?
+1
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RudinV
Hard Knocks Inc. Irresponsible Use of Capital.
435
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Posted - 2014.10.28 10:35:55 -
[26] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:
Is carebearing 23/7 dumb? Absolutely. I don't think it's a reason to evict someone though. When they carebear they provide gank targets. In a C5, that's usually cap gangs, and everyone likes to kill caps. In a lower class hole, it's tengus or drakes, which, while not the greatest, are still something to kill.
srsly? Jessy one this paragraph is an example u know nothing about subject... carebears provide targets? yes the moment u go inside the hole and they are there, waiting for to kill them...oh noes, i forgot, in case they are bit better than brain damaged high sec miner all u would see is just bunch of caps under the force field. and another variant: 5-6 dreads+3-4 carriers in magnetar? or even without bonuses? what fleet comp u would suggest for that? last time NoHo was ganked cose they didnt even bothered to roll the damn hole. And u know why? cose years of "content providing" during carebearing with that massive fleet made them lazy as fk. Evictions are boring-yes. but dont u wanna say that chilly home bearing is fun and exciting? and last point. corp which loose any assets (like10b+) during eviction-bunch of nubz and slakers. its wh. its fkn dangerous place, and if u bring tons of shiny loot just to feel better-u r an idiot in not idiot welcome environment and should be punished for that. Everyone who thinks another state against evolution theory and would be punished as well. Its just yours opinion against millions years of prove. |
Viscis Breeze
No Vacancies
69
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Posted - 2014.10.28 10:41:36 -
[27] - Quote
Evictions happen, its good content if people won't step up and fight.
Its also boring as hell.
Recruitment: http://bit.ly/1r4G5Pv
Website: http://www.no-vacancies.net/
Channel: No Vacancies
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Tuscor
United System's Commonwealth
82
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Posted - 2014.10.28 10:46:18 -
[28] - Quote
Viscis Breeze wrote:Evictions happen, its good content if people won't step up and fight.
Its also boring as hell.
Pretty much this! |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
750
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Posted - 2014.10.28 12:19:23 -
[29] - Quote
RudinV wrote:Andrew Jester wrote:
Is carebearing 23/7 dumb? Absolutely. I don't think it's a reason to evict someone though. When they carebear they provide gank targets. In a C5, that's usually cap gangs, and everyone likes to kill caps. In a lower class hole, it's tengus or drakes, which, while not the greatest, are still something to kill.
srsly? Jessy one this paragraph is an example u know nothing about subject... carebears provide targets? yes the moment u go inside the hole and they are there, waiting for to kill them...oh noes, i forgot, in case they are bit better than brain damaged high sec miner all u would see is just bunch of caps under the force field. and another variant: 5-6 dreads+3-4 carriers in magnetar? or even without bonuses? what fleet comp u would suggest for that? last time NoHo was ganked cose they didnt even bothered to roll the damn hole. And u know why? cose years of "content providing" during carebearing with that massive fleet made them lazy as fk. Evictions are boring-yes. but dont u wanna say that chilly home bearing is fun and exciting? and last point. corp which loose any assets (like10b+) during eviction-bunch of nubz and slakers. its wh. its fkn dangerous place, and if u bring tons of shiny loot just to feel better-u r an idiot in not idiot welcome environment and should be punished for that. Everyone who thinks another state against evolution theory and would be punished as well. Its just yours opinion against millions years of prove.
Maybe I do not know much because I never did evictions because they made me want to kill myself. So many times bears are still there because they're bad. With dreads+cars in mag then you call the rest of bluefriends to bring 60-70 T3 gang and kill easy. HK+other have done before, can easy do again. Home bearing makes me want to kill myself in a way that nothing else I've experienced does. If corp come back to WH, losing assets is not a problem for them. With C5, if they are big bears, they should have enough from bearing to replace all, but they don't come back which mean empty hole. My point is that a bear hole is better than an empty hole.
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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ChaeDoc II
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
105
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Posted - 2014.10.28 14:20:17 -
[30] - Quote
It's always amused me that some people who play this game get offended by others who choose to spend their time carebearing. It's like a child throwing a tantrum because another child is wearing a t-shirt he doesn't like. |
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