Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rucia Laraan
Triton Engineering
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 17:52:51 -
[1] - Quote
Over time I've come to a sad realization. Expensive ships are not as good as small fast ships. Expensive battleships with over a billion isk in modules still loses easily to 2 cheap assault frigates with tackling. To me it seems like a major design issue. Battleships really have no purpose against higher ships. They can't hit the small ships but they CAN be hit by large ships. Worst of both worlds.
I'm worried I'll have the same issues with a Carrier and want to learn about it before I fully commit the time and isk. Firstly, can fighters hit fast assault frigates? Is there something I can do to make SURE they can? Because if I get tackled and killed by 3 standard-fitted cheap ships while in a Carrier, I'm not sure I'd want to keep going like that.
I get it if lots of ships are creative and organized and they kill me. I just want them to have to work harder than that haha. |
xXxMLG420sw4gxXx
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 17:55:08 -
[2] - Quote
Fighters have hard time against cruisers, let alone against AFs. Carriers are more of a logistics platform rather than a standalone pwnboat |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1566
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:01:08 -
[3] - Quote
use scout drones |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
796
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:08:13 -
[4] - Quote
A fighter bay can hold a few hundred drones. A fleet of warriors should do.
If you are tackled by a af though, you have bigger problems than you think you do.
Yaay!!!!
|
Cynadore
3 R Corporation
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:20:31 -
[5] - Quote
Heavy neuts. Offset your cycles. Then set your drones on him. That's the only way a single carrier can deal with smaller ships. You'd better hope he doesn't have a warp disruptor with more range than your neuts though, otherwise he'll keep you pinned while his buddies arrive. |
Rucia Laraan
Triton Engineering
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:23:35 -
[6] - Quote
Heavy Neuts? is that short for something or is that the name of a drone type? |
Findell Ronuken
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:26:18 -
[7] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote:Over time I've come to a sad realization. Expensive ships are not as good as small fast ships. Expensive battleships with over a billion isk in modules still loses easily to 2 cheap assault frigates with tackling. To me it seems like a major design issue. Battleships really have no purpose against higher ships. They can't hit the small ships but they CAN be hit by large ships. Worst of both worlds.
I'm worried I'll have the same issues with a Carrier and want to learn about it before I fully commit the time and isk. Firstly, can fighters hit fast assault frigates? Is there something I can do to make SURE they can? Because if I get tackled and killed by 3 standard-fitted cheap ships while in a Carrier, I'm not sure I'd want to keep going like that.
I get it if lots of ships are creative and organized and they kill me. I just want them to have to work harder than that haha.
A Heavy Neut can reach out ot about 24km easily on a carrier thats the limit usually on a AF Also a flight of 9-10 warrior II's will handle them nicely.
Some battleships can hit smaller targets but yeah battleships arent for solo pvp. The largest thing you should be flying for solo pvp are the tier 3 battle cruisers like talos and such. |
Gaan Cathal
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
12
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:54:33 -
[8] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote:Heavy Neuts? is that short for something or is that the name of a drone type?
Wait, you've got as far as thinking about training for a Carrier - apparently in a PVP context - and you don't know what Capacitor Neutralisers are? |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
279
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:07:18 -
[9] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote:Heavy Neuts? is that short for something or is that the name of a drone type? Duuude, you really shouldn't go anywhere near a carrier for now.
Learn about basic mechanics first, then learn what a carrier actually is and what they are used for and if you then still feel the need for a carrier THEN you should train for one.
EDIT: Your killboard is funny. xD |
Rucia Laraan
Triton Engineering
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:30:21 -
[10] - Quote
I do know of cap neutralizers. I just hadn't heard them called neuts before. And yes, I've been unfortunate, as shown by my killboard :)
I knew I was likely to lose my ships when I put them in harms way. I did it as a learning experience. Expensive, but invaluable lessons indeed. |
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6415
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote:Over time I've come to a sad realization. Expensive ships are not as good as small fast ships. Expensive battleships with over a billion isk in modules still loses easily to 2 cheap assault frigates with tackling. To me it seems like a major design issue. Nope. It was done on purpose.
Otherwise you would have a meta where there is no reason to use anything smaller or less expensive (like in most other MMOs).
Rucia Laraan wrote:Battleships really have no purpose against higher ships. They can't hit the small ships but they CAN be hit by large ships. Worst of both worlds. 3 or 4 battleships that know what they are doing can take down a carrier or dreadnought... much the same way 3 or 4 cruisers can do against a battleship... or 3 or 4 frigates against a cruiser.
Then again... larger ships do have the advantage of having more and better fitting options to counter smaller vessels... though, that usually comes at the cost of being effective against ships of the same size.
Rucia Laraan wrote:I'm worried I'll have the same issues with a Carrier and want to learn about it before I fully commit the time and isk. Firstly, can fighters hit fast assault frigates? Is there something I can do to make SURE they can? Because if I get tackled and killed by 3 standard-fitted cheap ships while in a Carrier, I'm not sure I'd want to keep going like that. - No. Fighters can't even hit a frigate standing still once they start orbiting it. In fact... you should not be using Fighters much, if at all. You want to stick with regular drones (Lights, Heavies, and Sentries in particular).
- Target painters and Omni-Directional Tracking Links (with tracking script loaded) can increase the ability for fighters to hit stuff... but they'll still be quite terrible against ships smaller than a cruiser.
- Unless you completely fail at properly fitting a carrier, it should be impossible for 3 frigates to even break through your shields (even if you are armor tanked). However, 3 frigates CAN keep you pinned down indefinitely unless you have specifically fit to counter them (which will come at the cost of your ability to do other things).
Also... keep in mind that in EVE larger ships tend to require more support than smaller ships. Capital ships lies on the extreme edge of that line of thought... being almost completely dependent on smaller support ships to ensure their effectiveness and survival. What capitals give in return is a massive force multiplier either in the form of anti-structure and large-ship-murderboats (Supercarrier, Dreadnoughts, Titan) or "staying power" bonuses and repair systems (Carriers, Titans).
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
|
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
281
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:38:06 -
[12] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote: And yes, I've been unfortunate, as shown by my killboard :) It's not so much that you lost ships (everyone loses ships) but the type and fit of ships you lost. That coupled with your desire to fly a carrier looks like "I'm going to fit the biggest and most expensive ship I can sit in and then go PWN everyone!!!11". That's just not how EvE works. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:45:49 -
[13] - Quote
I'd link my AB Harpy loss to two supers with fighters (the only hostiles on field except for a Moros which did 0 damage), BEFORE the Kronos drone changes. I'd also link my MWD Sabre loss to two supers with fighters on a completely different occasion, long before that.
Target painters and webs will go a long way in increasing the effectiveness of fighters against small ships, and with the Kronos changes they're even better now than they were back then.
So not really buying the argument that fighters are awful against subcaps. The only real downside is that they're slow.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
|
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17374
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:50:33 -
[14] - Quote
Your fighters will barely do **** to an AF unless its webbed to **** and TPed to hell.
On the other hand.. 10 Hobbies would utterly **** the **** out an assault frig...
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6215
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:58:15 -
[15] - Quote
someone im guessing lost a shiny ship to a frigate
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6416
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:05:48 -
[16] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:So not really buying the argument that fighters are awful against subcaps. The only real downside is that they're slow. Fighters will generally land their initial volley if they are heading towards a target. However, once they settle into a stable orbit around a target their speed generally overcomes their tracking. They also have a signature resolution of 400 (battleship class) which just makes their tracking against smaller targets even worse.
Here is another way to see fighters; they are basically sentry drones with engines and a tiny range. Have you ever tried to hit a target orbiting your sentry drones at close range?
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
|
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4741
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:09:31 -
[17] - Quote
OP. With these questions and track record....
Please get into a carrier, ASAP but let me know when you do and where.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
|
Rucia Laraan
Triton Engineering
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:10:39 -
[18] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Rucia Laraan wrote: And yes, I've been unfortunate, as shown by my killboard :) It's not so much that you lost ships (everyone loses ships) but the type and fit of ships you lost. That coupled with your desire to fly a carrier looks like "I'm going to fit the biggest and most expensive ship I can sit in and then go PWN everyone!!!11". That's just not how EvE works.
Well actually I plan to use it to support my friend who will be in a Dreadnaught. I KNOW he won't be able to hit small things. I just want to make sure I can get the little enemies while leaving the killing of battleships and bigger things to him. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6216
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:17:02 -
[19] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:Rucia Laraan wrote: And yes, I've been unfortunate, as shown by my killboard :) It's not so much that you lost ships (everyone loses ships) but the type and fit of ships you lost. That coupled with your desire to fly a carrier looks like "I'm going to fit the biggest and most expensive ship I can sit in and then go PWN everyone!!!11". That's just not how EvE works. Well actually I plan to use it to support my friend who will be in a Dreadnaught. I KNOW he won't be able to hit small things. I just want to make sure I can get the little enemies while leaving the killing of battleships and bigger things to him. sounds like you need another friend/s to take care of the little enemies
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
690
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:18:05 -
[20] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote:Heavy Neuts? is that short for something or is that the name of a drone type? Neuts steal his capacitor. No power no warp disruptor. Forgive me for saying so but if you dont know what neuts are maybe you should hold off on the carrier? Or you may provide a kill mail and content for others. |
|
Rucia Laraan
Triton Engineering
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:25:07 -
[21] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Rucia Laraan wrote:Heavy Neuts? is that short for something or is that the name of a drone type? Neuts steal his capacitor. No power no warp disruptor. Forgive me for saying so but if you dont know what neuts are maybe you should hold off on the carrier? Or you may provide a kill mail and content for others.
Others said the same thing earlier in the forum post to me. I know about cap neutralizers but have just never heard the term "neuts" when referring to them. It's like when you're the last person to hear a common phrase in high school by random chance haha. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13717
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:29:14 -
[22] - Quote
You aren't ready for capitals Op, it will all end in tears.
Also, don't try to make a pvp battleship cap stable. Its ironic advice coming from me but please don't do that.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
Rucia Laraan
Triton Engineering
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:34:20 -
[23] - Quote
I embrace the tears. If I lose it I lose it. I want to have fun, not pay $10 a month to 'play it safe' |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6417
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:42:48 -
[24] - Quote
Quote:I embrace the tears. If I lose it I lose it. I want to have fun, not pay $10 a month to 'play it safe' You have the right mentality... but you are clearly not ready. Stick to smaller ships for the time being and attach yourself to people who actually do use capitals.
After all... you don't want to end up like this guy.
Quote:I just want to know how to avoid those automatic defeats in skirmishes. The tricks are...
- plan
- have allies
- plan
- don't put all your eggs in one basket
- plan that your plan will go horribly wrong.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
|
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
281
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 20:43:37 -
[25] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote:I just want to know how to avoid those automatic defeats in skirmishes. By using the right ship for the job. A carrier isn't the right ship for a 2 man gang. (Neither is a dread)
|
Rucia Laraan
Triton Engineering
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 22:20:48 -
[26] - Quote
What should I get for my fitting to protect against frigates? Webbers? Drone Links for Range? Cap neutralizers to help me to counter scramblers?
Sentries versus Light drones with range Links? |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11520
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 23:56:14 -
[27] - Quote
Rucia Laraan wrote:What should I get for my fitting to protect against frigates? Webbers? Drone Links for Range? Cap neutralizers to help me to counter scramblers?
Sentries versus Light drones with range Links?
A bunch of friends in carriers. Nothing else is going to deter, let alone kill, a frigate gang coming at you and your friend in his dread. You have five high slots for neuts, and a skilled pilot can ignore your neuts by timing cap boosters anyway.
Consider that you were asking about fighters killing frigates. Fighters are useful against battleships and cruisers in certain cases, but absolutely useless against anything smaller. A single flight of mediums or lights is pitiful, and you'd be lucky to even kill a single frigate with them before your carrier dies.
Also, it's more likely that you'll run into an Ishtar gang than into frigates. In that case, your situation will be absolutely hopeless and you'll just be a couple of free capital killmails for whoever happens to be roaming by.
Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
-á-á - Abrazzar
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
138
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 01:02:21 -
[28] - Quote
Time to brush off the locator agents. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
606
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 01:32:39 -
[29] - Quote
A carrier is a giant repair platform used for capital brawls, large gang warfare, and infranstructure repair, nothing else. it is never used solo because it cannot defend itself well.
It only survives if you have cover; trust me when i say, a carriers' arsenal is not adequate to defeat competent assault frigates, cruisers, or battlecruisers. if it were, people would be using them to PvP all the time.
And you cannot repair a sieged blap dread either - immune to all remote effects. and non-sieged drad does wose damage then a cruiser. and a blap dread will not work without 2-3 webbing lokis or a vigilant. And that too requires logistics and more support.
it is much much better to use a gank cruiser and a falcon, for starters. ishtar falcon, or thorax blackbird even. or sabre falcon.
just dont do it.
|
Serene Repose
1574
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 03:22:02 -
[30] - Quote
If you throw them just right. It's all in the wrist.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |