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Akiao Isrenth
Mysterys Inc.
0
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Posted - 2014.10.28 02:29:26 -
[1] - Quote
Title says it all really, currently fly a semi blinged nightmare for my lv4's in calamari space, but in a couple of days i'll have finished Amarr Battleship V and since I already have AWU V i'll have access to the paladin (Golem too, but it looks like a piece of ****).
I typically run solo, and have no alts. Normally come back and salvage afterwards, or stick 2 salvager II's in my utility highs and drop a mobile tractor. Will a Paladin give me any appreciable benefit the speed of missions? Make salvaging quicker? Does it live up to it's swagger name and model?
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Rita May
State War Academy Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2014.10.28 05:34:49 -
[2] - Quote
Akiao Isrenth wrote:Title says it all really, currently fly a semi blinged nightmare for my lv4's in calamari space, but in a couple of days i'll have finished Amarr Battleship V and since I already have AWU V i'll have access to the paladin (Golem too, but it looks like a piece of ****).
I typically run solo, and have no alts. Normally come back and salvage afterwards, or stick 2 salvager II's in my utility highs and drop a mobile tractor. Will a Paladin give me any appreciable benefit the speed of missions? Make salvaging quicker? Does it live up to it's swagger name and model?
wait... what?
you shoot Caldari mission NPCs with Lazorz and won't use a Golem because you don't like its looks?
Mind.blown
OT: most missions i do are in gallente space so while i do have a Paladin and a Nightmare i'd rather use my Golem or Kronos so i do not have recent experience on the subject, sorry.
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Arcos Vandymion
White Beast Inc.
72
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Posted - 2014.10.28 08:04:46 -
[3] - Quote
Pretty sure this should be "Ships & Modules"
I'd go with the Paladin personally. Three slot omnitank, EWar immunity and sexy - unlike the Nightmare. Stick on MegaPulses, Scorch, T2 Locus rigs, 4 Heatsinks and an MJD in the mids. Fill the remaining mids with Cap Rechargers or Tracking Computers.
[Paladin, Le Chevalier de Gueules]
Damage Control II Reactive Armor Hardener Large Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Large Micro Jump Drive Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Bastion Module I [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot]
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Following is Paper DPS / Effective DPS Guristas Ammo (lowslot configuration) @ optimal range + falloff in kilometers and tracking in degrees per second
774 / 359 DPS Scorch (4 T2 HS) or 824 / 383 DPS Scorch (4 INHS) @ 87.2+10 and 0.0519-¦/s with tracking script and without Bastion ... @ 101+12.5 and 0.0519-¦/s with tracking script and Bastion ...
971 / 494 DPS INMF (4 T2 HS) or 1033 / 526 DPS INMF (4 INHS) @ 29.1+10 and 0.0691-¦/s with tracking script and Bastion... @ 33.7+12.5 and 0.0691-¦/s with tracking script and Bastion...
Conflagration is not worth it, optimal range script is not worth it
6:40 of caplife running everything but MJD - plenty enough to activate the MJD and to give the NPC the finger. 330 sustained omnitank permarunning Bastion but not the repper, 670 peak tank. The RAH obviously gives worse omnitank on paper than say a T2 EANM but better actuall field results against NPCs =).
Put whatever is to your fancy into the highs (I'd say a T2 Auto Targeting Array and two Salvagers in High)
Kronos can be fitted along the same lines. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
423
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Posted - 2014.10.28 12:04:57 -
[4] - Quote
Rita May wrote:Akiao Isrenth wrote:Title says it all really, currently fly a semi blinged nightmare for my lv4's in calamari space, but in a couple of days i'll have finished Amarr Battleship V and since I already have AWU V i'll have access to the paladin (Golem too, but it looks like a piece of ****).
I typically run solo, and have no alts. Normally come back and salvage afterwards, or stick 2 salvager II's in my utility highs and drop a mobile tractor. Will a Paladin give me any appreciable benefit the speed of missions? Make salvaging quicker? Does it live up to it's swagger name and model?
wait... what? you shoot Caldari mission NPCs with Lazorz and won't use a Golem because you don't like its looks? Mind.blown
Some areas of caldari space are blood raider/sansha (I cant remember which). Up black rise way iirc, ichoria etc
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
149
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Posted - 2014.10.28 12:10:27 -
[5] - Quote
Akiao Isrenth wrote:Title says it all really, currently fly a semi blinged nightmare for my lv4's in calamari space, but in a couple of days i'll have finished Amarr Battleship V and since I already have AWU V i'll have access to the paladin (Golem too, but it looks like a piece of ****).
I typically run solo, and have no alts. Normally come back and salvage afterwards, or stick 2 salvager II's in my utility highs and drop a mobile tractor. Will a Paladin give me any appreciable benefit the speed of missions? Make salvaging quicker? Does it live up to it's swagger name and model?
ccp nerfed the loot drops im afraid. you;ll find the value of the loot lackluster.
if ur going to use the paladin use it in amarr space.
do the missions quickly, not neccesarily blitz but keep the pace up. as soon as the first enemy ship is dead deploy ur mtu.
have 3 salvagers in the utilities to salvage wrecks mtu brings to u.
as the last ship pops scoop ur mtu scoop the loot can it drops and move to the next room.
dont forget to stop bastion cycling before all this.
rinse and repeat.
btw golem looks awesome and will always hit (maybe not so important in pve)
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Akiao Isrenth
Mysterys Inc.
0
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Posted - 2014.10.28 13:51:30 -
[6] - Quote
Rita May wrote: wait... what?
you shoot Caldari mission NPCs with Lazorz and won't use a Golem because you don't like its looks?
Mind.blown
It's not that bad, I get blood raiders/sansha missions frequently and guristas secondary weakness is thermal which MF pumps out by the gallon.
And yeah, I hate the design of the raven hull, what a dump. My mission ship progression has been I gather, a pretty odd one, from when I started in '08 I've gone from a kestrel > caracal > ferox > scorpion > nighthawk > nightmare
Traded up from the nighthawk when they stopped doing hi-sec level 5's and decided to DPS tank
Bastion Arzi wrote: ccp nerfed the loot drops im afraid. you;ll find the value of the loot lackluster.
I was unaware loot had been nerfed, if blitzing is the FOTM now I may as well stick with the nightmare for the tracking and speed, since the paladin will only really give me an extra salvager and more cargo. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6254
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Posted - 2014.10.28 14:06:52 -
[7] - Quote
tach paladin has my money,having used it for exactly what the op plans its far from bad
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Khan Wrenth
Hedion University Amarr Empire
74
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Posted - 2014.10.28 17:54:15 -
[8] - Quote
I hear that a lot of people swear by the Paladin, no matter what empire they're flying in. And as a person recently involved in medium laser turrets, I can see why. It doesn't matter that 90% of the time I'm NOT firing into the resist hole of the enemies. They pop all the same. Sure, some take longer than others. That's the nature of it.
But every time I hear about Paladins for level 4 missions, I hear generally the same thing. You want to range tank (awesome in concept. Reduces incoming DPS, drastically reduces your need for tracking mods, etc). Tachyons (as noted in the post above mine), and a micro jump drive unit. Warp to mission, jump 100km out, make everything around you melt. The rest of how you fit your ship after that is just details and preference.
But take that advice with a grain of salt. I don't do missions much (used to do more back in the early days). And I have limited experience with level 4s...and none of that experience is in a marauder. I'm just offering up what I've seen discussed before, and adding a bit from my own limited experience. So, in fact, this may be "shiptoasting". But it looks solid on paper and fits with what people have discussed before.
If missioning were my thing, I'd probably work towards investing in a Paladin.
HTFU.-á Adapt or die.-á Beware the falcon punch.
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
707
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Posted - 2014.10.28 23:08:06 -
[9] - Quote
All of the Marauders are great mission boats due to their massive tanks, EWAR immunity, and good projection/application. The Golem falls a bit short as the only marauder without a damage bonus that gives it more than 8 effective weapons. However it does offer a double application bonus and total damage flexibility which probably makes up for this.
The popularity of the Paladin probably relates to T2 pulse laser ammo being generally awesome and tachs having crazy base range and DPS on a hull with bonuses to both range and damage. Doing 41.6% thermal damage helps when shooting things like Guristas but the other 58.4% of your damage being EM will still hurt your completion times against things that aren't weak to EM, like Guristas.
You are already flying a pirate BS and pirate BSs are generally on par with Marauders for mission running as long as you have some way to counter/get around the NPC EWAR. (Missiles/drones vs tracking disruption, ECCM vs ECM, ect...) In some cases a well fit and flown pirate BS will beat out a marauder for completion times due to the higher raw damage pirate BSs can generally put out. The Mach is especially good at this with its good projection, speed, and warp speed bonus.
If you like the NM then a Paladin will probably "feel" like an upgrade due to the better projection. Bastion mode also lets you drop tank for more application (tracking comps to make up for the loss of the NM's tracking bonus) and also lets you laugh at NPC EWAR. The 10% higher warp speed on the Paladin also helps total completion times as well.
In the end neither pirate BS or Marauder is really better than the other for mission running. They are different and each hull class offers different benefits and trade offs vs the other. Its all about personal preference, play style, and choices really. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
726
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Posted - 2014.10.29 04:36:12 -
[10] - Quote
Paladin imo. the range bonus is just better than the tracking bonus for nearly all missions. Plus with bastion mode it is super easy to fit the Paladin for the same or more DPS than the nightmare.
and yes even in caldari space you get a ton of missions where a paladin/nightmare is among the best choices. There are really only a few gurista missions, and all the ones I can remember doing have pretty convenient blitzes for a paladin/nightmare.
My favorite 2 mission ships are the paladin and mach, I feel like between these 2 ships you are covered for nearly every mission (at least out of the ones I've run)
I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me!
In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod
- Mara Rinn
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2153
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Posted - 2014.10.29 16:07:16 -
[11] - Quote
i've been flyingthe nightmare for years and the paladin since shortly after the marauder buff, so i feel quite confident talking about them.
the paladin is the better mission hull overall. its few drawbacks are outweighed by its many advantages. in particular, it has a ludicrously strong tank, to the point where i fly with one shiny medium rep and one hardener. IF you get in trouble, you can always hit bastion and sit it out while burning the rats down. bastion will also help against ewar, which you learn to value after having spent years warping in and out of sanshas blockade. i also would not advise you to waste time on an MJD: there is simply no need for it, go with a shiny MWD instead.
there are a few things the nightmare has going for it (aside from its sexy looks). it has very generous CPU and the ability to speed tank NPC battleships. also, its slot layout is better suited for a damage control to protect against gankers. lastly, there is an issue where the bastion module prevents the paladin from warping out when you disconnect. needless to say, this increases the risk of losing it, a problem the nightmare does not have.
I should buy an Ishtar.
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Nathan Shavit
Shavit Risk Management
7
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Posted - 2014.10.29 17:12:16 -
[12] - Quote
The paladin gets the job done faster generally, but I would always choose the nightmare. It's beautiful, easy to get into and could easily be refitted to an incursion ship.
There is no problem an air strike cannot solve.
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
192
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Posted - 2014.10.29 17:13:27 -
[13] - Quote
Nathan Shavit wrote:It's beautiful
i disagree. looks like a **** with spikes in it
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Rita May
State War Academy Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2014.10.29 18:01:05 -
[14] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Some areas of caldari space are blood raider/sansha (I cant remember which). Up black rise way iirc, ichoria etc
uh, ok. Didn't know that, my bad. |
Arcos Vandymion
White Beast Inc.
72
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Posted - 2014.10.29 19:59:43 -
[15] - Quote
Sure you can go MJD, warp into the pocket, jump 100k and then cycle your hueg guns to kill every last poor sod in there and then jump back for the next gate cause there is more than one pocket in the mission (AE, Vengeance, Recon etc) - or you can just use guns that have a mad good range/tracking combination and facetank half the missions. Not like you'll probably need the 600+ peak tank for 6 minutes with bastion as things should just die. Yes Pulse lasers do work like that (the XV88 is obviously using Tachs in that comparison).
Did I mention the Pulses in above fit have like 90ish kilometres optimal? That hit's about uhm I'd guesstimate 95% and a bit of all spawns (Mining missaspropriation, The Blockade, Damsel in Distress, every room in a multi-room mission...). 100+ range (at which Tachs with IN Gamma or IN X-Ray actually become better) is hardly ever needed, ignoring the fact you only have 114 targeting at max skills unless fleeted or using SignalAmps/SeBos. The damage composition might be preferrable on the close range crystals though - Scorch is 82/18 EM/Th and Gleam is like 50/50 EM/Th.
Idea: use a Mobile Depot, bring 4 Tachs and ammo. Marauders have 1k+ cargo and you certainly won't need it for ammo on the Paladin.
Ugh I should stop reading these weird "wikis" ... |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
726
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Posted - 2014.10.30 04:05:12 -
[16] - Quote
Arcos Vandymion wrote:Sure you can go MJD, warp into the pocket, jump 100k and then cycle your hueg guns to kill every last poor sod in there and then jump back for the next gate cause there is more than one pocket in the mission (AE, Vengeance, Recon etc) - or you can just use guns that have a mad good range/tracking combination and facetank half the missions. Not like you'll probably need the 600+ peak tank for 6 minutes with bastion as things should just die. Yes Pulse lasers do work like that (the XV88 is obviously using Tachs in that comparison). Did I mention the Pulses in above fit have like 90ish kilometres optimal? That hit's about uhm I'd guesstimate 95% and a bit of all spawns (Mining missaspropriation, The Blockade, Damsel in Distress, every room in a multi-room mission...). 100+ range (at which Tachs with IN Gamma or IN X-Ray actually become better) is hardly ever needed, ignoring the fact you only have 114 targeting at max skills unless fleeted or using SignalAmps/SeBos. The damage composition might be preferrable on the close range crystals though - Scorch is 82/18 EM/Th and Gleam is like 50/50 EM/Th. Idea: use a Mobile Depot, bring 4 Tachs and ammo. Marauders have 1k+ cargo and you certainly won't need it for ammo on the Paladin. Ugh I should stop reading these weird "wikis" ...
if you are using the 90km+ optimal on scorch you might as well be using tachs most of the time.
also I swap between MWD, MJD or both, heck most of the time i probably have both fit because I really don't feel like refitting more than I have to.
I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me!
In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod
- Mara Rinn
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Arcos Vandymion
White Beast Inc.
72
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Posted - 2014.10.30 07:09:29 -
[17] - Quote
I prefer nearly twice the tracking and firerate over the ~145 paper DPS of INMF Tachs at 90km. Seriously though - what's wrong with longrange weapons having these crazy DPS nowadays? I can understand the basic logic but there's a dwindling amount of things you use short range weapons for (solo PvP - does that even still exist?).
A Core-C or Gist-C 100MN makes the ship go pretty fast and fits no problem even with Tachs. People preferr their cap (stable) though so that's why I didn't have it in above fit. With a C Type it's 2:50 of cap runing everything including MWD and 4:18 running everything sans MWD. Plenty enough IMO. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2155
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Posted - 2014.10.30 12:31:27 -
[18] - Quote
with three TCs and tracking scripts, i can reliably hit frigates up until they get into orbit. aside from that, you should always ungroup your guns and you should not waste time shooting frigates when that is what your drones are supposed to do.
frigates aside, tracking is never a problem in missions, pulses or tachs. if it is for you, you're doing it wrong. and as for range, most mission rats spawn roughly between 30 and 60km, which is exactly the range where tachs easily beat pulses.
I should buy an Ishtar.
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GordonO
Brave Newbies Inc.
75
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Posted - 2014.10.31 02:59:12 -
[19] - Quote
In most missions you not going to see a massive speed increase between the two. The benefit the palladin has however is its immunity to ewar. It also has an advantage of being able to t2 fit it to get the same performance. I DC a fair amount so mine is cap stable. The ability to be cap stable and be ewar immune make the palladin my preffered mission boat for em/them weak rats. I would suggest using a Golem though for guristas as the difference is noticeable.
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