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Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:21:17 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys,
maybe too short to start a topic of it's own, but it's general discussion so I decided to go for it.
People keep saying eve subscription numbers are falling. Do we have any proof for that?
My memory might not serve me well but I started playing about a year ago (october even) and remember usually seeing 25k as number listed for people online. Now - that has gone up to 35k-ish now. Why the change? I'd imagine that plex prices going up by (I think...) 150 mil from 650 (I think...) mil to around 800 would cause the the reverse tendency in amount of alts logged in.
This is kinda evidence for the contrary - that the number of subscriptions did not fall but raise.
Cheers, Balsh
Disclaimer - I don't really care that much if the number of subscriptions fell or went up. I don't think EVE could change to better or worse regarding systems' population anyway so I kinda feel safe. I'm more interested in people explaining why they think the number of players went down and how they explain why the number of people logged in went up. Ofc it could be me remembering wrong in which case - sry ;-)
"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4991
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:22:19 -
[2] - Quote
What Is Dead May Never Die
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
5376
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:What Is Dead May Never Die
Surely it can decompose.
Recon makes them stronger
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Ulon Naus
BSE Protection Agency.
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:40:43 -
[4] - Quote
Eve died a frew years ago... What we are going to see now is a sloow decent of subscribers over a long period. "happens to all games."
Lack of content for endgame players. Lack of proper NPE. and a game where funds have been funneled into other projects. Will ultimatley neglect the game it self.
Its not really a bad thing it happens. CCP is really pushing for changes. and its badley needed.
without more and harder endgame content for bored vets. they stop. If it where to me.. id give players a new mutch harder thing to skill for. Not space coffins. but actualley useful stuff.
I could see eve exist forever.. but it requires constant change and new goals. It might be a sandbox where we make our own content.. but that is just not enough to keep it alive.
All IMO.. ofc.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2869
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Posted - 2014.10.28 12:42:09 -
[5] - Quote
People who say Eve is dying because of PLEX prices are idiots. People who say Eve is dying because of suicide ganking are idiots. People who say Eve is dying because of incoming changes are idiots.
People are idiots.
Only time I see < 20k pilots online is shortly after DT. During EU evenings and weekends it rarely drops below 35k and seeing > 40k is not unusual as well.
If only people who pay so much attention to CCP subscription numbers would apply 1/10th of this effort to their own business...
Invalid signature format
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Steve Wingyip
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:44:43 -
[6] - Quote
It's 5 years ago all over again. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
467
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:45:01 -
[7] - Quote
Ulon Naus wrote:Eve died a frew years ago... What we are going to see now is a sloow decent of subscribers over a long period. "happens to all games."
Lack of content for endgame players. Lack of proper NPE. and a game where funds have been funneled into other projects. Will ultimatley neglect the game it self.
Its not really a bad thing it happens. CCP is really pushing for changes. and its badley needed.
without more and harder endgame content for bored vets. they stop. If it where to me.. id give players a new mutch harder thing to skill for. Not space coffins. but actualley useful stuff.
I could see eve exist forever.. but it requires constant change and new goals. It might be a sandbox where we make our own content.. but that is just not enough to keep it alive.
All IMO.. ofc.
You're looking at things from a solo player perspective, those are never going to last. Endgame of EvE are the players themselves, same as most of the content and story. |
Prince Kobol
2321
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:47:37 -
[8] - Quote
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Hey guys,
maybe too short to start a topic of it's own, but it's general discussion so I decided to go for it.
People keep saying eve subscription numbers are falling. Do we have any proof for that?
My memory might not serve me well but I started playing about a year ago (october even) and remember usually seeing 25k as number listed for people online. Now - that has gone up to 35k-ish now. Why the change? I'd imagine that plex prices going up by (I think...) 150 mil from 650 (I think...) mil to around 800 would cause the the reverse tendency in amount of alts logged in.
This is kinda evidence for the contrary - that the number of subscriptions did not fall but raise.
Cheers, Balsh
Disclaimer - I don't really care that much if the number of subscriptions fell or went up. I don't think EVE could change to better or worse regarding systems' population anyway so I kinda feel safe. I'm more interested in people explaining why they think the number of players went down and how they explain why the number of people logged in went up. Ofc it could be me remembering wrong in which case - sry ;-)
Dear lord..
Okay, it would help if you could separate the PCU count and subscriptions in your head as they are two different things.
PCU count
Yes the PCU count is down to about 2008 levels. Pick your own reasons why you think this has happened as there are many to choose from.
Subscriptions.
QEN 1st Quarter 2009 - Eve broke the 300,000 subscriber milestone QEN 4th Quarter 2009 - 317,593 QEN 1st Quarter 2010 - Well over 320,000 subscribers QEN 2nd Quarter 2010 - Well over 340,000 QEN 3rd Quarter 2010 - Dips to 330,000 QEN 4th Quarter 2010 - HIts 360,000 but dips a little to 357,000 end of year.
After this it becomes guess work as CCP stopped producing the QEN reports.
In March 2011 PC Gamer reported that CCP announced it had over 360,000 subscribers, in October 2011 Nosey Gamer had Eve at appox 355,000.
In May 2012 Nosey Gamer reported that CCP had sent MMOData.net new numbers and that Subs were at 361,000.
Now this is where CCP start to fudge the figures somewhat.
In December 2012 Forbes ran an article where CCP claimed they had broken 450,000.. The reason for the big jump, CCP started to include subscriptions for Serenity which had just recently launched in China.
In June 2012 CCP had launched "A New Era" for Serenity and claimed they saw subscriptions double for Inferno later in the year.
Then we had the CCP announce they hit 500,000 in Feb 2013 but again these numbers include subs for Serenity as well as Dust 514.
Since Feb 2013 CCP have not released any figures regarding subscription numbers.
Why.. why do game developers shout as loud as they can to anybody who will listen when there numbers are going up and suddenly fall silent? |
Ulon Naus
BSE Protection Agency.
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:48:05 -
[9] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Ulon Naus wrote:Eve died a frew years ago... What we are going to see now is a sloow decent of subscribers over a long period. "happens to all games."
Lack of content for endgame players. Lack of proper NPE. and a game where funds have been funneled into other projects. Will ultimatley neglect the game it self.
Its not really a bad thing it happens. CCP is really pushing for changes. and its badley needed.
without more and harder endgame content for bored vets. they stop. If it where to me.. id give players a new mutch harder thing to skill for. Not space coffins. but actualley useful stuff.
I could see eve exist forever.. but it requires constant change and new goals. It might be a sandbox where we make our own content.. but that is just not enough to keep it alive.
All IMO.. ofc.
You're looking at things from a solo player perspective, those are never going to last. Endgame of EvE are the players themselves, same as most of the content and story.
Not really. but when you see people from the bigger alliances only login for a super kill. then id go as far as saying thats a lack of content. and stuff to do other than killing a super now and then |
Cynadore
3 R Corporation
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:50:22 -
[10] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote: Endgame of EvE are the players themselves, same as most of the content and story.
I think the point being made was that the endgame consists of collecting rental income and complaining about there being no one to fight. |
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Ulon Naus
BSE Protection Agency.
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:57:13 -
[11] - Quote
Cynadore wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote: Endgame of EvE are the players themselves, same as most of the content and story. I think the point being made was that the endgame consists of collecting rental income and complaining about there being no one to fight.
We only fight if we can win! general outcome of a system where you loose everything if you die.
Simple example. If you played Dayz. and saw a gp of 5 ppl. personnaley id hide my ass and find a way arround.. but if i respawned with all my **** agin... well then.. Id be shure to run in with my head under my arms and shoot everything that mooved. |
Jim Hazard
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 13:00:08 -
[12] - Quote
Cynadore wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote: Endgame of EvE are the players themselves, same as most of the content and story. I think the point being made was that the endgame consists of collecting rental income and complaining about there being no one to fight.
Let me add another point. People using the term "endgame" in reference to eve do not understand the game. |
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
72
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 13:00:14 -
[13] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:People who say Eve is dying because of PLEX prices are idiots. People who say Eve is dying because of suicide ganking are idiots. People who say Eve is dying because of incoming changes are idiots.
People are idiots.
Only time I see < 20k pilots online is shortly after DT. During EU evenings and weekends it rarely drops below 35k and seeing > 40k is not unusual as well.
If only people who pay so much attention to CCP subscription numbers would apply 1/10th of this effort to their own business...
I guess they are right about CCP being silent. If the numbers went up they would announce it probably. On the other hand if they had subs just under 500k they would stay shut up either because the "500k" imaginary milestone isn't there anymore.
Hard to tell - that's why I asked.
Would it matter for an average player if they've gone from 350k to 500k and then back down? I don't know. From my perspective there's no other mmo that's not cloning wow, and it makes eve both a niche and a long life product.
"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:27:57 -
[14] - Quote
EvE is far from dying. Starcitizen and Elite Dangerous prove that there is demand for spacesims, this could be the second rise of EvE. CCP could get more customers if the "equip" New Eden with the right incentives. But: Some Players won't like those incentives: more PvE content, more "secure Places", protection from Griefers. When i see the burner missions and remember what a certain CCP Developer said about an PvE content Editor, i think CCP is preparing for that.
Forum Main
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WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1149
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:30:14 -
[15] - Quote
yes it is
shush
A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg
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Darth Schweinebacke
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:01:25 -
[16] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:EvE is far from dying. Starcitizen and Elite Dangerous prove that there is demand for spacesims, this could be the second rise of EvE. CCP could get more customers if the "equip" New Eden with the right incentives. But: Some Players won't like those incentives: more PvE content, more "secure Places", protection from Griefers. When i see the burner missions and remember what a certain CCP Developer said about an PvE content Editor, i think CCP is preparing for that.
I do not really believe that anybody actually is against ccp adding PvE content here and there. To stick with your example of burner missions, I have not seen anyone complaining to ccp about them being added.
What people are against, are useless additions which a) do not add anything to the actual gameplay or b) change the very nature of the game, which adding "secure places" would be one of.
There are already more than enough tools to protect yourself in the game. They are the same tools the "griefers" use to hunt you. The sheep are just unwilling to learn how to use them. |
Xavier Holtzman
Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:05:21 -
[17] - Quote
Ulon Naus wrote:Eve died a frew years ago... What we are going to see now is a sloow decent of subscribers over a long period. "happens to all games."
Lack of content for endgame players. Lack of proper NPE. and a game where funds have been funneled into other projects. Will ultimatley neglect the game it self.
Its not really a bad thing it happens. CCP is really pushing for changes. and its badley needed.
without more and harder endgame content for bored vets. they stop. If it where to me.. id give players a new mutch harder thing to skill for. Not space coffins. but actualley useful stuff.
I could see eve exist forever.. but it requires constant change and new goals. It might be a sandbox where we make our own content.. but that is just not enough to keep it alive.
All IMO.. ofc.
And ofc.. EvE is hoarding assholes. and they are allowed to do whatever they want. personnaley i dont have a problem with this. but its no suprise to see bad player rewievs of a game where the players take pride in destrying the fun of others.
What is this ... "endgame" ... you speak of?
I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it.
- Bill Frug
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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2132
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:06:28 -
[18] - Quote
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6969
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:19:25 -
[19] - Quote
Xavier Holtzman wrote:Ulon Naus wrote:Eve died a frew years ago... What we are going to see now is a sloow decent of subscribers over a long period. "happens to all games."
Lack of content for endgame players. Lack of proper NPE. and a game where funds have been funneled into other projects. Will ultimatley neglect the game it self.
Its not really a bad thing it happens. CCP is really pushing for changes. and its badley needed.
without more and harder endgame content for bored vets. they stop. If it where to me.. id give players a new mutch harder thing to skill for. Not space coffins. but actualley useful stuff.
I could see eve exist forever.. but it requires constant change and new goals. It might be a sandbox where we make our own content.. but that is just not enough to keep it alive.
All IMO.. ofc.
And ofc.. EvE is hoarding assholes. and they are allowed to do whatever they want. personnaley i dont have a problem with this. but its no suprise to see bad player rewievs of a game where the players take pride in destrying the fun of others. What is this ... "endgame" ... you speak of?
It's a hallucinatory side effect of someone experiencing Sudden Player Entitlement Derangement Syndrome (SPEDS).
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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Gonzo Liberace
ReallyPissedOff Guinea Pigs
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:26:20 -
[20] - Quote
Being 11 Eve isn't even a teenager yet! It's still several years away from losing it's virginity, let alone die... |
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DaReaper
Net 7
1161
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:38:10 -
[21] - Quote
Ulon Naus wrote:Eve died a frew years ago... What we are going to see now is a sloow decent of subscribers over a long period. "happens to all games."
Lack of content for endgame players. Lack of proper NPE. and a game where funds have been funneled into other projects. Will ultimatley neglect the game it self.
Its not really a bad thing it happens. CCP is really pushing for changes. and its badley needed.
without more and harder endgame content for bored vets. they stop. If it where to me.. id give players a new mutch harder thing to skill for. Not space coffins. but actualley useful stuff.
I could see eve exist forever.. but it requires constant change and new goals. It might be a sandbox where we make our own content.. but that is just not enough to keep it alive.
All IMO.. ofc.
And ofc.. EvE is hoarding assholes. and they are allowed to do whatever they want. personnaley i dont have a problem with this. but its no suprise to see bad player rewievs of a game where the players take pride in destrying the fun of others.
There is no endgame in eve. None. Its a lot like real life, there is no end game there either. The endgame is what you make of it. For example, my personal endgame is to rebuild my corp, make a new alliance and hold sov on my own for a period of time. I've never held sov more then 2 months (not including rent) so that's my personal goal. That's my end game. Other people want to fly titans, some want to mine all the veldspar there is (hi chribba) It's just the way of eve. If you are bored then the problem is you, not eve. Stop thinking of eve as Disneyland where you ride the rides in a certin order and start thinking of eve as a day at the beach. Cause that's what it is.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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DaReaper
Net 7
1161
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:40:36 -
[22] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Hey guys,
maybe too short to start a topic of it's own, but it's general discussion so I decided to go for it.
People keep saying eve subscription numbers are falling. Do we have any proof for that?
My memory might not serve me well but I started playing about a year ago (october even) and remember usually seeing 25k as number listed for people online. Now - that has gone up to 35k-ish now. Why the change? I'd imagine that plex prices going up by (I think...) 150 mil from 650 (I think...) mil to around 800 would cause the the reverse tendency in amount of alts logged in.
This is kinda evidence for the contrary - that the number of subscriptions did not fall but raise.
Cheers, Balsh
Disclaimer - I don't really care that much if the number of subscriptions fell or went up. I don't think EVE could change to better or worse regarding systems' population anyway so I kinda feel safe. I'm more interested in people explaining why they think the number of players went down and how they explain why the number of people logged in went up. Ofc it could be me remembering wrong in which case - sry ;-) Dear lord.. Okay, it would help if you could separate the PCU count and subscriptions in your head as they are two different things. PCU countYes the PCU count is down to about 2008 levels. Pick your own reasons why you think this has happened as there are many to choose from. Subscriptions. QEN 1st Quarter 2009 - Eve broke the 300,000 subscriber milestone QEN 4th Quarter 2009 - 317,593 QEN 1st Quarter 2010 - Well over 320,000 subscribers QEN 2nd Quarter 2010 - Well over 340,000 QEN 3rd Quarter 2010 - Dips to 330,000 QEN 4th Quarter 2010 - HIts 360,000 but dips a little to 357,000 end of year. After this it becomes guess work as CCP stopped producing the QEN reports. In March 2011 PC Gamer reported that CCP announced it had over 360,000 subscribers, in October 2011 Nosey Gamer had Eve at appox 355,000. In May 2012 Nosey Gamer reported that CCP had sent MMOData.net new numbers and that Subs were at 361,000. Now this is where CCP start to fudge the figures somewhat. In December 2012 Forbes ran an article where CCP claimed they had broken 450,000.. The reason for the big jump, CCP started to include subscriptions for Serenity which had just recently launched in China. In June 2012 CCP had launched "A New Era" for Serenity and claimed they saw subscriptions double for Inferno later in the year. Then we had the CCP announce they hit 500,000 in Feb 2013 but again these numbers include subs for Serenity as well as Dust 514. Since Feb 2013 CCP have not released any figures regarding subscription numbers. Why.. why do game developers shout as loud as they can to anybody who will listen when there numbers are going up and suddenly fall silent?
IMO its because Dust did not do as well as they thought it would when it came out. I did the maths, and eve was down roughly 2.5k subscribers last year, but then again I did not have any hard numbers as to 'dust make x and eve made y of total z'
If for example, eve had 400k subscribers, but dust lost $10m there would be an uproar. There is not much point in showing that.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
575
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:29:28 -
[23] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Xavier Holtzman wrote:Ulon Naus wrote:Eve died a frew years ago... What we are going to see now is a sloow decent of subscribers over a long period. "happens to all games."
Lack of content for endgame players. Lack of proper NPE. and a game where funds have been funneled into other projects. Will ultimatley neglect the game it self. ... snip What is this ... "endgame" ... you speak of? It's a hallucinatory side effect of someone experiencing Sudden Player Entitlement Derangement Syndrome (SPEDS).
Phew! I was starting to worry I was missing out on something |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:25:05 -
[24] - Quote
In my mind the problem is that because alts are becoming more common even a stable subscriber base suggests a declining number of actual human players. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6274
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:30:33 -
[25] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:41:01 -
[26] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:In my mind the problem is that because alts are becoming more common even a stable subscriber base suggests a declining number of actual human players.
I would think people should have smaller amount of alts since they cost them more to maintain (plex prices). Maybe the jump changes would push them one way or the other, but then why would you log in with an alt that is supposed to be skilling for jumping (or w/e - don't understand the entire "chain jump drive" thingy null bears were threatening to use after phoebe landed).
The jump changes also seemed to have no effect on amount of people logged in. I would point to them if there was recent fall/raise in number of subscriptions.
I think I'd lean to agree that CCP is silent about numbers due to Dust 514 taking a big hit. It would mean that EVE had stable population all along, and not much has changed. I guess that's good.
"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
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Mharius Skjem
Republic University Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:47:24 -
[27] - Quote
Balshem Rozenzweig wrote:Hey guys,
maybe too short to start a topic of it's own, but it's general discussion so I decided to go for it.
People keep saying eve subscription numbers are falling. Do we have any proof for that?
My memory might not serve me well but I started playing about a year ago (october even) and remember usually seeing 25k as number listed for people online. Now - that has gone up to 35k-ish now. Why the change? I'd imagine that plex prices going up by (I think...) 150 mil from 650 (I think...) mil to around 800 would cause the the reverse tendency in amount of alts logged in.
This is kinda evidence for the contrary - that the number of subscriptions did not fall but raise.
Cheers, Balsh
Disclaimer - I don't really care that much if the number of subscriptions fell or went up. I don't think EVE could change to better or worse regarding systems' population anyway so I kinda feel safe. I'm more interested in people explaining why they think the number of players went down and how they explain why the number of people logged in went up. Ofc it could be me remembering wrong in which case - sry ;-)
Less people, more alts.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Tolkenmoon
Aliastra Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 19:39:45 -
[28] - Quote
Don't know if it's dying or not, i think though that that trends go from time zone to time zone, what i mean is this, when i used to log in 2008 or so there used to be 45 to 50k people on now its peaking around 35k for the time i log in. I live in the UK |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5410
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 19:58:13 -
[29] - Quote
"Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." - some guy named Clemens
Pretty sure he was talking about Eve though.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
|
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1255
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 20:07:34 -
[30] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:People who say Eve is dying because of PLEX prices are idiots. People who say Eve is dying because of suicide ganking are idiots. People who say Eve is dying because of incoming changes are idiots.
People are idiots.
Only time I see < 20k pilots online is shortly after DT. During EU evenings and weekends it rarely drops below 35k and seeing > 40k is not unusual as well.
If only people who pay so much attention to CCP subscription numbers would apply 1/10th of this effort to their own business...
Eve may not be dying because of PLEX prices, but it's definitely causing the subscription numbers to fall because people are ditching seldom used alts because it's not really worth 850M ISK a PLEX to keep them going. I ditched 3 myself. |
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