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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1868
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Posted - 2014.11.13 09:11:01 -
[121] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Here, we don't really care about BS, but about medium AC, which are in a worse state.
Actually my vaga / cyna has speed but no damage over 20km, while most of the ships in front of me can project way more damages than i do thanks to RLML, railgun and drones damage.
Where is the point to fly it over a Gila / VNI / Cerb / Ishtar ? Runaway faster when i get blobbed ? But what is the point to hunt if i'm only able to kill frigs before to get blobbed. I'm efting like a fool to get a real fit which can perform well, but it's almost impossible.
Actually, cynabals / Vagabond are good to gank like every other ships but fighting is a real pain, while i constantly need to care about ranges to apply my damages, i could just throw my drones and stay safe at 35km+ with more EHP.
We need you CCP !
Well I do not care much for the medium guns, but yes for the large. THe medium guns are at least on platforms that still ahve mobility enough to get close agaisnt things they can kill and get away from things that will kill them. Large guns are on platforms that are disasters
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13871
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Posted - 2014.11.13 09:44:10 -
[122] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:baltec1 wrote:WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:CCP PLS, my vaga needs love... speaking on-topic, the vagabond is a fine example of a case where a substantial falloff extention would very much be in order. when looking at it in comparison to, say, a cerberus, you see under 600 DPS at 21KM versus the Cerb's 700 at almost 40KM. were it not for this major disadvantage I would have never looked away from my beloved Vagabond. Now compare the speeds of these two ships. DPS and range isnt everything. Funny because on our KITING fleets we use cerberuses over vagabonds, because they are FAR SUPERIOR on that role. Speed in fact works very badly with AC because you have tracking AND falloffproblems (depending on the different moments of the maneuvers). WHiel cerberus hit MUCH harder. The MAX speed of the vagabond is nearly irrelevant, sicne it is useful only when you are running away, in other words when you lost. I prefer ships that make OTHERS run away. That is the main reason almost all kiting small scale combat made in game is with caldari ships.
You are failing because you are trying to use every ship in exactly the same way.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1899
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Posted - 2014.11.13 11:47:50 -
[123] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Make the damm graphs. The megatron outdps the tempest almost up to long point range! Make an armor tempest and an armor mega and put the nubmers on. The tempest is UTTERLY behind on any relevant engagement range. At the point AC start to outdps blasters, the best weapons is already RAILS.
So NO! The tempest do not have range advantage.
Yes, ever since the hybrid buff, autocannons have been getting outranged by their much harder-hitting blaster brethren which actually have superior base tracking. It doesn't help that null ammo offers a nice range bonus while the only significant distinction of barrage is that it deals less damage.
Fact: small blasters outrange small autocannons.
Fact: medium blasters and medium autocannons have approximately equal base range.
Fact: all sizes of blasters outrange equivalent autocannons when using null ammo, while still beating them in DPS by a good margin, and with almost as much tracking.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Nodire Hermetz
shadow and cloaking Mordus Angels
0
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Posted - 2014.11.14 02:29:34 -
[124] - Quote
bump , CCP must look at it seriously |
Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Triumvirate.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.15 00:15:28 -
[125] - Quote
Bump, i want to pew pew with my cyna. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2014.11.15 03:37:52 -
[126] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:CCP PLS, my vaga needs love... speaking. Den-topic, the vagabond is a fine example of a case where a substantial falloff extention would very much be in order. when looking at it in comparison to, say, a cerberus, you see under 600 DPS at 21KM versus the Cerb's 700 at almost 40KM. were it not for this major disadvantage I would have never looked away from my beloved Vagabond. Vaga is one of the ships that more falloff is not much needed. THe ships sufferign a lot are the ones without ANY falloff bonus. Examples: HURRICANE (now is a Complete pile of crap, and anyone thinking on the contrary is delusional, brutix does more DPS at ANY reasonable range). Tempest ( same situation when comapred to the mega. At least the temepst have 2 neuts htat make it very dangerous to small support). Rupture ( the ship went from best t1 cruiser to VANISHING from space. THroax is same speed 9when both shield or both armor tanked), roughly same ehp and does more dps at any reasonable range). In fact the problematic minmatar line is EXACLTY the shps with 2 damage bonuses, that yet do less damage than their peers of other races while not being able to field falloff bonuses)
I like my vaga, but in terms of investment to train it in its current state isnt worth it. What other HAC does 250-300 dps in its intended engagement range? Deimos can do its 650-700 dps fine with scram/web, rlml cerb applies its 600ish out to 60-80km, and sac applies well with scram web. But with 2 TE and a t2 ambit rig, im only applying 250ish dps at point range? Maybe 290ish with barrage. Then im stuck with explo only and a tracking nerf. Keep in mind this is with 526 paper dps or 440ish without drones.
For me to apply that 400-500dps i have to be well within scram range. Which..blasters will obliterate. This also brings up the question, can 300dps at best, kill a dual rep vexor at point range? A fairly common fit for it. vexor is probably doing more damage to me than i am to it.
Now i dont want to do 500dps at 25km and still go 2900m/s. But for 3 slots dedicated to range, it doesnt seem like im getting much bang for my buck. Id be happy with 10-20% bump in dps at point range with those slots dedicated to range. So we are talkin about a few extra km in falloff to acheive that. To do that you would either increase base ac falloff range or increase falloff bonus 5% extra per level on falloff bonused hulls. So instead of 50% bonus at lvl5, you would have 75% bonus.
The vaga has a lot of potential but its dps is too low at its intended engagement range. And up close, blasters do it better. Id like to shoot more than frigs in my HAC. |
Yngvar ayShorn
Unknown Dimension Alpha Volley Union
7
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Posted - 2014.11.15 16:36:11 -
[127] - Quote
I think Projectiles and Mini-Hulls need a closer look from CCP. Both could need some (slight) love. The Nerf-Bat for Tracking-Enhancers hit Minis a little bit to hard at all. From King of the Hills (aka Winmatar) to something crappy. Please, CCP, make Minis moar up to date and moar competetive!
14 Tage EVE testen? 21 Tage EVE testen! -á-->> Klick mich <<--
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Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static Gone Critical
1
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Posted - 2014.11.15 17:34:45 -
[128] - Quote
i could get behind a 10% falloff buff across all sizes but i think more of the problem lies in the ship hulls take the stabber for instance it has a 6/4/4 layout and can only mount 4 guns leaving it with 2x utility highs which is frankly kinda **** |
Igor Nappi
Perkone Caldari State
92
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Posted - 2014.11.15 17:57:58 -
[129] - Quote
IMHO ACs and turrets in general are pretty well balanced currently. Capless operation and selectable damage type are strong perks especially when engaging eg. T2 ships and PVE ships. Drones (especially sentries on cruiser hulls) and light missiles need a nerf more than projectiles need a buff.
Tweaking ACs should be limited to perhaps rolling back the falloff portion of TE nerf and introducing EM, Thermal and Kinetic alternatives to Barrage and Hail.
Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game.
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Zekora Rally
U2EZ
4
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Posted - 2014.11.15 19:17:33 -
[130] - Quote
This is a good example of my problem with CCP's overall approach to balancing. It shows a great lack of awareness with overall gameplay and their fear of solving issues related to module balancing through iteration. They always want to get it right the first time and in the case of balancing turrets/launchers, it ends up with whatever getting buffed being OP, and vice versa, all the time.
Take a look at Gallente from 2009-2012, it took ages for CCP to acknowledge that there was an issue with blasters and rails in general. They couldn't even prove it until pvp ships and turrets used over time were graphed and comparisons made. Now Gallente is so much better, it's unbelievable, vexors and drones everywhere. It's a much welcomed change but at what price?
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1903
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Posted - 2014.11.15 20:08:02 -
[131] - Quote
Zekora Rally wrote:This is a good example of my problem with CCP's overall approach to balancing. It shows a great lack of awareness with overall gameplay and their fear of solving issues related to module balancing through iteration. They always want to get it right the first time and in the case of balancing turrets/launchers, it ends up with whatever getting buffed being OP, and vice versa, all the time. I think the problem is that they are comparing the wrong things when they balance something. They want to make minor tweaks without impacting the overall balance, while that is the root of the problem--the critically imbalanced base values across the board are preventing changes from putting one thing in balance without pulling another out of balance.
What they should be doing is making blanket changes to categories that are out of balance, and issuing an immediate counter-change for the things which were previously in balance to put them back to where they were before the blanket change.
Example imbalance: large autocannons outrange large blasters while small autocannons do not outrange small blasters. It is already settled that autocannons should outrange blasters at least by having much more falloff because they deal less damage, have less tracking, and have tiny optimal.
Effects of the imbalance on ships: The Slasher is critically inferior to the Atron due to having less range with less tracking and less DPS. The Rifter is a bit inferior to the Incursus but not by as great a margin because of its large bonus to falloff (10% per level) and slightly higher EHP due to the low powergrid cost of its weapons. The Tempest is outperformed completely by the Megathron because even with the damage and rate of fire bonus, the Tempest's autocannon DPS is about even with the Megathron's DPS with 6 blasters, while the Megathron can fit a much bigger tank and 7 guns for higher total DPS with better tracking and, when using Null ammo, better range. The only counterbalance is the ability for the Tempest to have 2 utility high slots, but with its DPS so low it's generally better to have a 5-gun Megathron with 2 "utility highs".
Example of CCP's method of fixing the problem: The most out of balance is the Slasher and it's due to its low DPS/range combo, so we'll change its damage bonus to a falloff bonus so it can take better advantage of its speed and tracking in making tight orbits. Then, since small autocannons have such tiny range, we'll buff the 200mm autocannon's falloff by 33%. This leaves the other small autocannons (which don't get used much anyway) lacking and ignores the problem of Barrage ammo's range bonus being pathetically weak. The Thrasher, which is already a pretty decent ship due to its ability to fit tons of tank plus guns because of their low powergrid cost, has just received a buff due to the 200mm autocannon change. CCP ignores it and suddenly Thrashers start popping up all over the place.
How I would fix the problem: line up the base ranges a bit better--small autocannons probably need their falloff doubled to be on par with the difference between large autocannons and blasters (which are the only reasonable range setup). This is of course going to buff all small autocannon ships so we have to apply counter-nerfs. Current line-up after changes: Slasher: already so weak it'll probably be fine left alone Rifter: mediocre weapons now (instead of complete crap) plus excellent tank and good speed Thrasher: far higher tank than other destroyers with a top gun setup, and now its guns don't suck, meaning it'll hugely outperform other destroyers Sabre: already was the king of interdictors, now even stronger Dramiel: much better ability to engage in a tight orbit, already possesses tremendous speed and agility with decent tank. Firetail: I don't know where it stood before, someone with more experience will have to tell me
Point of interest: the low powergrid cost of small autocannons affects frigates very little as weapons already account for only a small fraction of their powergrid expenses. Destroyers on the other hand are heavily influenced by their weapons' powergrid costs. Solution: boost the powergrid costs of small autocannons: 125mm autocannon: +1 MW (2MW) 150mm autocannon: +2 MW (4MW) 200mm autocannon: +2 MW (6MW) Effect on Slasher, Rifter, and Dramiel: slightly less tank, not hugely noticeable. Effect on Thrasher and Sabre: much less extra powergrid, more in-line with (yet still higher than) what other destroyers have left over after fitting top weapons. Now Thrasher and Sabre have less total capacity for tank, and instead can take advantage of their speed and agility for kiting, especially with the new autocannon buff giving them a pretty decent range along with that awesome role bonus on the Thrasher.
Now after changes, the small autocannons compare with other small turrets similarly to how large autocannons compare with other large turrets. This is a good thing when it comes to making balance changes that are effective in the long term. There are still a few imbalances from our change, but these can easily be attributed to attribute alterations made long ago or during tiericide trying to balance the ships while ignoring the heart of the problem. Now that we have it solved, the attribute changes on individual ships can put them in-line where they belong.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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M1k3y Koontz
thorn project Surely You're Joking
613
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Posted - 2014.11.15 21:07:28 -
[132] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:CCP PLS, my vaga needs love...
Vaga and Muninn. I compared an arty Muninn and arty Cynabal, the only advantage the Muninn had was a minor increase in DPS, and the tracking bonus. Cynabal had more tank, vastly more speed, much better align time, more drone options, and a noteworthy warp speed bonus.
Vagabond is simply laughable when I can outdo it in any role with a Deimos. Up close actove tank? Blaster Deimos. Kiting? Rail Diemos OR blaster Deimos with null, either is more effective. And that ignores the Cynabal, which still outclasses the Vagabond.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Liam Inkuras
Mafia Redux Irresponsible Use of Capital.
1332
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Posted - 2014.11.15 21:48:02 -
[133] - Quote
To everyone saying that Medium ACs are fine, go try kiting in a Cynabal, Vagabond, or other Minmatar Hull. Then, try it in a rail Thorax, Deimos, Pulse Nomen, Aug Navy, or Zealot. Let me know if you were consistently applying more damage in Minmatar hulls with ACs, or other hulls with other weapons.
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1905
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Posted - 2014.11.15 23:01:59 -
[134] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Let me know if you were consistently applying more damage in Minmatar hulls with ACs, or other hulls with other weapons. Or Minmatar hulls with other weapons.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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Nodire Hermetz
shadow and cloaking Mordus Angels
0
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Posted - 2014.11.16 02:07:16 -
[135] - Quote
i don't know what the best things to do are :
Give pre-TE nerf stats to all Autocanon (all size , all meta) Give pre-TE nerf stats on minmatar hull (falloff/tracking) or Give DPS/Falloff/Tracking bonus on all Autocanon (all size) Give DPS/Falloff/Tracking on Minamtar hull
But we are all accordly here to say this : in lot of situation , autocanon (and medium much more affected in the current meta) are in a really bad place (in the current meta again) and can't do anything better or even similar to all other weapons platform yes , they are free cap use , yes they have swappable damage type/ammo with different ammo , giving a lot of flexibilty , but i'm sure if CCP make some stats/graph about what is the more used weapon type in all Eve , we will see autocanon in a really really really deep and bad position XD |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1907
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Posted - 2014.11.16 02:47:22 -
[136] - Quote
I think buffing autocannon falloff will do it, but smalls need an especially large buff to that falloff.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
256
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Posted - 2014.11.16 02:50:00 -
[137] - Quote
So, for another thread which is attempting to address battleships and large guns of all sorts, I would like to see what you folks think of for my ideas.
before skills on the T2, and arrange the meta versions accordingly dual 425s: trade 3km of falloff into optimal, buff damage mod to 2.59875, buff tracking to .0585, slight drop in CPU and PG Dual 650s: Trade 3.5km of falloff into optimal, buff damage mod to 3.116355, buff tracking to .05, same CPU and PG 800s: trade 3.75km of falloff into optimal, buff damage mod to 3.47655, same tracking, same CPU, 2400PG
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
1907
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Posted - 2014.11.16 03:05:20 -
[138] - Quote
Please explain how large of a change you're talking about and/or provide numbers for existing stats.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
256
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Posted - 2014.11.16 03:19:06 -
[139] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Please explain how large of a change you're talking about and/or provide numbers for existing stats. Optimal: About doubling the optimal range of dual 425s, to about adding ~3/4 the current optimal to 800s. Damage: ~5%, 6.25% and 7.5% respectively to dual 425, dual 650 and 800. Tracking: .00162 added to base dual 425, .00032 to dual 650s
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Nodire Hermetz
shadow and cloaking Mordus Angels
0
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Posted - 2014.11.16 06:44:35 -
[140] - Quote
i'm still convince that medium ac are a WAY more hurted right now in the current meta , than the small or large or X-Large ac weapon ... |
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Triumvirate.
3
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Posted - 2014.11.16 13:28:41 -
[141] - Quote
Bump coz my vagabond is rusty. |
M1k3y Koontz
thorn project Surely You're Joking
613
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Posted - 2014.11.16 14:29:16 -
[142] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Bump coz my vagabond is rusty.
And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
967
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Posted - 2014.11.16 15:45:31 -
[143] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Bump coz my vagabond is rusty. And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?
vagas look awesome .. but in its current role its not worth using .. a cyna or Nomen are better choices , they need to ramp up its brawling aspect in exchange for some speed.. a mini sleipnir in effect..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Triumvirate.
3
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:25:14 -
[144] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Bump coz my vagabond is rusty. And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite?
Did tried my vaga recently, couldnt stay on the grid because of a RLML cerberus which was applying is full dps at 60 while i had to stick at 20 to apply 400 dps and be at very close range from all of their inty / recons but well np np np, WE DONT NEED A FIX (sarcasm). |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
967
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Posted - 2014.11.16 17:17:22 -
[145] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Bump coz my vagabond is rusty. And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite? Did tried my vaga recently, couldnt stay on the grid because of a RLML cerberus which was applying is full dps at 60 while i had to stick at 20 to apply 400 dps and be at very close range from all of their inty / recons but well np np np, WE DONT NEED A FIX (sarcasm).
well at 20 you would be doing about 200 .. RLML's are OP .. well perhaps more the light missiles themselves..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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M1k3y Koontz
thorn project Surely You're Joking
613
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Posted - 2014.11.16 17:43:25 -
[146] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Bump coz my vagabond is rusty. And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite? Did tried my vaga recently, couldnt stay on the grid because of a RLML cerberus which was applying is full dps at 60 while i had to stick at 20 to apply 400 dps and be at very close range from all of their inty / recons but well np np np, WE DONT NEED A FIX (sarcasm). well at 20 you would be doing about 200 .. RLML's are OP .. well perhaps more the light missiles themselves..
I don't think RLMLs are OP, and if they are, not nearly as bad as the Gallente drone lineup is.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
481
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Posted - 2014.11.16 18:09:15 -
[147] - Quote
Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.
So yeah, -1.
Schrodinger's Hot Dropper
The Fate of Forum Alts
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M1k3y Koontz
thorn project Surely You're Joking
613
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Posted - 2014.11.16 19:11:22 -
[148] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Bump coz my vagabond is rusty. And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite? vagas look awesome .. but in its current role its not worth using .. a cyna or Nomen are better choices , they need to ramp up its brawling aspect in exchange for some speed.. a mini sleipnir in effect..
A mini-sleip would be interesting. I'd certainly trade a fair bit of speed to have a strong minmatar brawler. It would need some more powergrid and shield HP though.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
968
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Posted - 2014.11.16 19:32:41 -
[149] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Harvey James wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Bump coz my vagabond is rusty. And it ain't just the paintjob, amirite? vagas look awesome .. but in its current role its not worth using .. a cyna or Nomen are better choices , they need to ramp up its brawling aspect in exchange for some speed.. a mini sleipnir in effect.. A mini-sleip would be interesting. I'd certainly trade a fair bit of speed to have a strong minmatar brawler. It would need some more powergrid and shield HP though.
yes, about 2300 shield HP, 5th mid , lose a high/turret .. and get stronger damage bonuses in return
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
288
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Posted - 2014.11.16 20:42:31 -
[150] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote: Honestly, after skimming the thread I think the main complaint is that people keep trying to use autocannons(specifically) like blasters or lasers. A basic solution is to kite blasters and get into nose bleed range with lasers. Something that autocannons out perform their competition respectively very well. Which is to say that range control is the primary concern of a Minmatar hull, and, considering that they have innate and bonused advantages to speed and sometimes agility, this should make them exceedingly good at that role.
So yeah, -1.
Couldn't be more wrong.
Please explain to me how projectiles are on par with drones.
A Vagabond will literally never break the tank of a solo fit HAC, and if it can, it's out damaged hugely. |
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