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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2014.10.29 21:49:48 -
[1] - Quote
While i'd like to see racial mining frig/cruisers be brought back, I'd even more like to see a mining "destroyer". 8 High slots for normal mining lasers, percentage balanced to be no more than 20% more effective than an ORE mining frig with all 8 lasers working, but with double ore capacity.
We know that hi-sec ores always seem to be so, so tiny. The point is to have a ship which has less yield per individual laser, but more lasers to make up for that, to hit multiple tiny asteroids in belts and increase mining efficiency when going after small sized roids.
This ship occupies the transition between barges and that new ORE mining frig. T2 versions could extract as much as a mining barge, but at greater cost for ship, making it even more specialized for hitting a lot of those tiny rocks in belts for greater effectiveness. |
Gay Pornstar
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
10
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Posted - 2014.10.29 22:19:34 -
[2] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:While i'd like to see racial mining frig/cruisers be brought back, I'd even more like to see a mining "destroyer". 8 High slots for normal mining lasers, percentage balanced to be no more than 20% more effective than an ORE mining frig with all 8 lasers working, but with double ore capacity.
We know that hi-sec ores always seem to be so, so tiny. The point is to have a ship which has less yield per individual laser, but more lasers to make up for that, to hit multiple tiny asteroids in belts and increase mining efficiency when going after small sized roids.
This ship occupies the transition between barges and that new ORE mining frig. T2 versions could extract as much as a mining barge, but at greater cost for ship, making it even more specialized for hitting a lot of those tiny rocks in belts for greater effectiveness.
You're thinking like, way too hard about mining man.
There is an idea of a Gay Pornstar; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2014.10.29 22:41:46 -
[3] - Quote
The further elaboration of this idea being that people who dont have the skills for Miner II's yet or a mining barge can contribute greatly in a mining corp during an operation.
The idea is that the whole can be greater than each individual apart, making mining corps more viable, with MTUs and haulers and so on, in order to promote corporation level collaboration so everyone gets rich instead of getting bored. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2014.10.29 23:11:38 -
[4] - Quote
Gay Pornstar wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:While i'd like to see racial mining frig/cruisers be brought back, I'd even more like to see a mining "destroyer". 8 High slots for normal mining lasers, percentage balanced to be no more than 20% more effective than an ORE mining frig with all 8 lasers working, but with double ore capacity.
We know that hi-sec ores always seem to be so, so tiny. The point is to have a ship which has less yield per individual laser, but more lasers to make up for that, to hit multiple tiny asteroids in belts and increase mining efficiency when going after small sized roids.
This ship occupies the transition between barges and that new ORE mining frig. T2 versions could extract as much as a mining barge, but at greater cost for ship, making it even more specialized for hitting a lot of those tiny rocks in belts for greater effectiveness. You're thinking like, way too hard about mining man.
it's not really about thinking too hard, more like, it gives the opportunity for players with limited skill points a way to greatly improve mining efficiency in a mining corporation, and thus makes them valuable to a corp and also gives them a greater money haul because of the corp's ability to provide hauling service to them. It promotes a symbiotic relationship between specialized low SP players to a greater degree than there is now, while providing a "next level" to the mining path so people don't feel like they stagnate. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
223
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Posted - 2014.10.29 23:21:56 -
[5] - Quote
Gay Pornstar wrote:You're thinking like, way too hard about mining man.
Quite like the way this rewards actually making an effort.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
10395
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Posted - 2014.10.30 00:24:30 -
[6] - Quote
They stopped wasting time on mining a while ago. They're onto things that actually matter by now.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5002
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Posted - 2014.10.30 00:26:18 -
[7] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They stopped wasting time on mining a while ago. They're onto things that actually matter by now. A while. Like 10 years. The rest was cosmetics.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
56
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Posted - 2014.10.30 01:04:11 -
[8] - Quote
Ugh... Ignore the trolls.
Still, I'm not sure that this class of ship is needed currently. The Venture is a viable mining until a pilot can get into a barge, and the time to get into said barge is about a week.
Why would you want to create a niche ship that a pilot would only use for a few days? If a pilot finally decides that mining is the path for her, then the wait time to get into the barge is minimal, and if a pilot decides that mining isn't her cup of tea, then she won't waste time and ISK to even train up the next level and purchace a ship she's not going to use.
What else can this ship do other that be that one week in a mining pilot's career? Ventures are FREE* and have the built in stabs, so they have a place outside of the 'starting ship'.
As your proposal reads, there's no need for such a ship. A pilot intending on a mining career will just need to wait out the week it takes to pilot a barge. If patience isn't a good trait of the pilot, then maybe she should choose a more exciting carrer.
--Gadget
*upon (re)doing the tutorial |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2014.10.30 01:21:46 -
[9] - Quote
Using the shorter-cycle mining lasers to reduce "overmine" from 2 minutes of a strip miner going after 500m3 ore left in a rock. That happens much more often on all the tiny rocks in hi sec space or inbetween the giant rocks in lowsec/nullsec.
Maybe not a stepping stone between ORE frig and barge, but a complimentary ship to barges. Slightly inferior yield to the worst barge, but less wasted mining cycles against tiny roids, and the ability to lock onto 8 different tiny roids at a time to harvest them while the focused Strip miners go after big stuff.
Abrazzar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They stopped wasting time on mining a while ago. They're onto things that actually matter by now. A while. Like 10 years. The rest was cosmetics.
Dedicated massive ore holds was definitely not cosmetic for ORE barges. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
56
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Posted - 2014.10.30 01:41:20 -
[10] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Using the shorter-cycle mining lasers to reduce "overmine" from 2 minutes of a strip miner going after 500m3 ore left in a rock. That happens much more often on all the tiny rocks in hi sec space or inbetween the giant rocks in lowsec/nullsec.
Maybe not a stepping stone between ORE frig and barge, but a complimentary ship to barges. Slightly inferior yield to the worst barge, but less wasted mining cycles against tiny roids, and the ability to lock onto 8 different tiny roids at a time to harvest them while the focused Strip miners go after big stuff.
A mining pilot knows how to cut their mining cycle short. Just use a mining scanner and turn off the miner at the right time. This can only come through experience... or be taught. It doesn't require a new ship for these things especially since even regular mining lasers can 'overmine'.
Without some unique attribute or ability, this theorized ship currently has no place in the ship lists that isn't already coverd better by another ship.
--Gadget
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Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
104
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Posted - 2014.10.30 05:40:53 -
[11] - Quote
Does it take very long to get into a Mining Barge? I have a Mining Alt and I don't remember it taking very long and that was before the Mining buff a while back.
Evemon says 2 and a bit days plus maybe a day or so more for basic mods ect.
Why fill a gap when here is none. |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
4340
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Posted - 2014.10.30 06:16:19 -
[12] - Quote
Not needed. Mining does need something, but this is not it.
I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Demon your parents warned you about.
||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Tug-class Vessel||
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Iain Cariaba
594
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Posted - 2014.10.30 15:54:44 -
[13] - Quote
Not supported. The very last thing this game needs is more highsec mining bot aspirants crying when they get ganked.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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xgrishax
Phoenix Wing Inc.
2
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Posted - 2014.10.30 16:18:15 -
[14] - Quote
Low skill players can already contribute to mining fleets and make them more efficient - bring a Miasmos. You can participate in any mining op with a Miasmos inside of 30 minutes of making a new pilot.
Like others have said, mining does need new ideas and alterations but I don't think this is part of what needs to change. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1958
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Posted - 2014.10.30 16:53:49 -
[15] - Quote
with the amount of time to get to a barge after a venture i dont think this is warranted.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2014.10.30 17:13:10 -
[16] - Quote
>miasmos >low skill
Pick one. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6436
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Posted - 2014.10.30 17:22:21 -
[17] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:>miasmos >low skill
Pick one. You don't have to. It's a Tech 1 hauler with a dedicated ore hold.
Hell... I remember supporting rookie mining fleets with I was a newbie... in an Iteron 4! Good times.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Sam Spock
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2014.10.30 19:27:28 -
[18] - Quote
There is something to this idea but only if it has a special role that it does better than any other ship. Perhaps something in Gas mining? Could be the step up for gas from the venture since barges can't mine gas. I don't see much for rocks since you can get to barges so quickly.
Here is an oddball idea: Kind of small ore hold but with built-in compression.
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Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
228
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Posted - 2014.10.30 19:41:53 -
[19] - Quote
Sam Spock wrote:There is something to this idea but only if it has a special role that it does better than any other ship. Perhaps something in Gas mining? Could be the step up for gas from the venture since barges can't mine gas. I don't see much for rocks since you can get to barges so quickly. Would probably have to be toned down from the original eight turrets.
Really like this idea of the ship focusing on mining without strips though, something that's nice and efficient at going after smaller, high value rocks/gas could probably find a niche even if its just cherry picking sites/new player doing something other than hauling.
The Prospect as this sort of upgrade is all well and good in theory but the lack of drones makes it less than ideal in too many situations.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
58
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Posted - 2014.10.30 23:59:13 -
[20] - Quote
Sam Spock wrote:There is something to this idea but only if it has a special role that it does better than any other ship. Perhaps something in Gas mining? Could be the step up for gas from the venture since barges can't mine gas. I don't see much for rocks since you can get to barges so quickly.
Here is an oddball idea: Kind of small ore hold but with built-in compression.
Now this I can get behind. Well, minus the compression thing.
The gas mining skill gives you the use of one gas miner per skill. The only true gas platform has...2 turrets. Why raise gas mining above 2?
Cruiser or Destroyer hull? I'm leaning towards a more stalwart destroyer hull, mostly for two reasons. First, barges are already cruiser sized, and second, there doesn't need to be another skill to learn.
As, Ix Method mentioned, eight turrets is a bit much, so lets go towards an Algos or Dragoon design, 6 highs and a drone bay. Also, it'sll have a small cargo bay, small-ish ore bay, and small dronebay.
Here's a prototype: High Slots: 6 (5 turrets and one open slot) Mid Slots: 4-3 Low Slots: 2-3 (using a M:L 4:2 or 3:3 ratio...maybe a 4:3 but that might be a bit much... need some trade offs)
200m3 cargo hold. (maybe 150?) 7500m3 base ore hold 25m3 drone bay with 23 Mbit/sec bandwidth (enough for a full flight of either lt. combat or lt. utlilty drones, but the pilot must make a decision on which ones to take)
900hp structure 900hp shield 700hp armor
Plus other stats, but this is a good mock-up I think. Should be much slower than the Venture but a tad bit faster than a Prospect.
Endeavor -- Heavy Mining Frigate (fits the naming scheme) Requires Mining frigate 3 to use. [Small] [Resource Harvesting] [Shield]
Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level) 5% bonus to ore hold capacity 5% reduction in Gas Cloud Harvesting 5% reduction in mining laser and Gas Cloud Harvester capacitor use (or maybe a fitting reduction instead??)
Role Bonus: 100% to Mining and Gas Cloud Harvesting yield 25% reduction in Mining Laser duration (maybe higher... but don't want them too fast)
Anyway, just some initial thoughts.
--Gadget |
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
81
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Posted - 2014.10.31 03:10:08 -
[21] - Quote
-1 Not needed......maybe a deployable for claiming a belt though....so all non corpmates go flashy when trying to mine rocks theyhave no claim to.
HEY OP....arent you the one that had a thread in GD trying to promote slave labor in a mining corp....especially newbie player slaves? |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.10.31 04:17:07 -
[22] - Quote
Please don't troll. You know that wasn't what it was about. |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
36
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Posted - 2014.10.31 07:22:11 -
[23] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:While i'd like to see racial mining frig/cruisers be brought back, I'd even more like to see a mining "destroyer". 8 High slots for normal mining lasers, percentage balanced to be no more than 20% more effective than an ORE mining frig with all 8 lasers working, and with half the ore haul capacity of an ore frig.
We know that hi-sec ores always seem to be so, so tiny. The point is to have a ship which has less yield per individual laser, but more lasers to make up for that, to hit multiple tiny asteroids in belts and increase mining efficiency when going after small sized roids.
This ship occupies the transition between barges and that new ORE mining frig. T2 versions could extract as much as a mining barge, but at greater cost for ship, making it even more specialized for hitting a lot of those tiny rocks in belts for greater effectiveness.
Ideas for function: Cruiser sized hull. It's going to have far inferior CPU and PG to a normal cruiser that way and be easier to lock/shoot, which pretends it from being used as a cheap gank type ship. No trained up yield bonuses. Role bonus of +10-20% yield per laser. CPU fitting bonus for fitting mining lasers but not for any other types of turrets. Keep the base CPU of the ship small so it can't be a cheap face melt platform, while granting it ability to use 8 miners.
You know maybe this is what is intended when your in highsec, go to low/0.0 or wh there are the belt big enough.
-1 |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.10.31 19:12:34 -
[24] - Quote
Except that mining in lowsec is decreased isk when you factor in losing mining ships and/or time safe warping and requiring the logistical support to haul it all back to Jita where you get no better a price for the extra length you have to go than if you stayed in high sec and mined. So, what's your point?
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2014.11.02 04:20:28 -
[25] - Quote
Update:
You telling me you cant see the value in this?
http://i.imgur.com/5o7DYz8.png
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
83
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Posted - 2014.11.02 05:05:26 -
[26] - Quote
1.) wasnt trolling before 2.) Nope dont see the value of it at all....use the ships provided for that sort of losec/highsec work.....as to highsec....you want that many lasers...use a Rohk, thats old school just like you like.
3.) Please Quit shiptoasting. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2014.11.02 06:48:29 -
[27] - Quote
I can see you are intent on continuing to troll, which is why I'll be hiding your posts from now on. Talk to the wind
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Amarisen Gream
Lone Wolf Union Yulai Federation
53
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Posted - 2014.11.02 07:41:17 -
[28] - Quote
There is NO need!
xoxo
Amarisen Gream
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2014.11.02 09:54:09 -
[29] - Quote
There's no need to have anything above frigs either, yet we want them don't we?
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
233
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Posted - 2014.11.02 09:59:40 -
[30] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Here's a prototype: High Slots: 6 (5 turrets and one open slot) Mid Slots: 4-3 Low Slots: 2-3
...
Endeavor -- Heavy Mining Frigate (fits the naming scheme) Requires Mining Frigate 3 to use. [Small] [Resource Harvesting] [Shield]
Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level) 5% bonus to ore hold capacity 5% increase in Drone hit points (maybe damage and mining yield as well??) 5% reduction in Mining Laser and Gas Cloud Harvester duration
Role Bonus: 100% to Mining and Gas Cloud Harvesting yield 25% reduction in Mining Laser and Gas Cloud Harvester capacitor use (or maybe a fitting reduction instead??)
Anyway, just some initial thoughts.. !!?!?
15 (ish? **** my maths) effective gas turrets is the sort of powercreep that would flatline the economy.
Someone up there suggested six, it seems like a nice little buff over the Venture.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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