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Persifonne
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.10.30 08:49:36 -
[1] - Quote
Session: Nullsec, Page 61
"CCP Fozzie - We have said in the past that we want there to be more interesting game play there. AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power. To me, it is the equivalent of posting on the forums until someone stops ratting. It has the same physical impact in many ways. ..."
CAREBEAR BUFF #238 of 2014
When they finally make this game like WoW... peeps just gonna go play WoW instead |
Nalha Saldana
Shattered Void Spaceship Samurai
857
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Posted - 2014.10.30 08:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you want to kill me come fight me, not sit and wait until you can kill me without consequences. |
Persifonne
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.10.30 08:55:17 -
[3] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:If you want to kill me come fight me, not sit and wait until you can kill me without consequences.
I would buuuut... youd just auto warp to safe/log til your BLOP support comes. You really think a nullbear rater miner wants to fight? Lul
NULLBEAR buuuuuffjob |
Nalha Saldana
Shattered Void Spaceship Samurai
857
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Posted - 2014.10.30 09:01:18 -
[4] - Quote
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" The same goes for afk cloaking, when we all cloak in each others systems and everyone is ratting in highsec will you be happy? |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
771
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Posted - 2014.10.30 09:17:26 -
[5] - Quote
Well, it's a bit out of context since the further discussion went about covert cynos, which are only in one version of AFK cloaking. AFK cloaking per se doesn't look to be going anywhere in the near future. However, they have discussed (and only in a couple of sentences, so no real or serious feature discussion was involved) the potential hypothetical possibility of maybe taking a look at covert cynos and their use in combination of covert cloaks.
o.0
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Natural420
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.10.30 09:23:29 -
[6] - Quote
Persifonne wrote:When they finally make this game like WoW... peeps just gonna go play WoW instead
This |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13725
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Posted - 2014.10.30 09:30:47 -
[7] - Quote
He didnt say they are removing it.
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Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
173
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Posted - 2014.10.30 09:34:54 -
[8] - Quote
all form of AFK something should be quickly removed.
remember the static ice belt? people cant no more 'camp' a belt.
why not work on AFK cloaker asap? there's no reason to allow stay cloaked 23h/day and camp a system.
after i hope they will work on AFK station and AFK ratting.
there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !
CCP Fozzie
> AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
761
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Posted - 2014.10.30 09:40:56 -
[9] - Quote
what does that mean? should someone be able to outsit me in station or POS when I'm cloaked? I demand autoeject from dock or pos ff after a certain time to prevent afk hiding.
inb4 come siege pos argument: you know its bull****. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13726
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Posted - 2014.10.30 09:56:42 -
[10] - Quote
Almethea wrote:all form of AFK something should be quickly removed.
remember the static ice belt? people cant no more 'camp' a belt.
why not work on AFK cloaker asap? there's no reason to allow stay cloaked 23h/day and camp a system.
after i hope they will work on AFK station and AFK ratting.
AFK cloaker. Cant move, cant lock, cant shoot and theres nobody at the controls.
But apparently it can lock down systems for days at a time.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2876
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:02:09 -
[11] - Quote
Sorry but anybody who says being AFK is valid gameplay is an idiot. If you are AFK you are not playing so where's gameplay?
To be honest I'm sure there are means that could be implemented to check if you really are at your keyboard. Usually if you are actively stalking somebody or you gather intel or set trap or anything else that is done under safety of cloak you chat or click d-scan or fly at some direction or warp around or check possible targets info (for ship and/or pilot), etc. There's no need to introduce fuel for cloak or anything like that, that would just make genuine cloaked hunters life more hassle. "Simple" set of UI interaction checks would probably get rid of 99% of AFK "activities" including miners, links, cloakies, ratters you left unattended. Wanna have a longer break? Dock or log off or your ship will deactivate all modules and recall drones to drone bay.
Also AFK cloaking is not the same as AFK ratting or mining or autopiloted hauling. Those ships are exposed out in space and can be probed down, warped to, tackled and killed. You cannot do any of those things to AFK cloaky.
Invalid signature format
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13726
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:15:20 -
[12] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Sorry but anybody who says being AFK is valid gameplay is an idiot. If you are AFK you are not playing so where's gameplay?
To be honest I'm sure there are means that could be implemented to check if you really are at your keyboard. Usually if you are actively stalking somebody or you gather intel or set trap or anything else that is done under safety of cloak you chat or click d-scan or fly at some direction or warp around or check possible targets info (for ship and/or pilot), etc. There's no need to introduce fuel for cloak or anything like that, that would just make genuine cloaked hunters life more hassle. "Simple" set of UI interaction checks would probably get rid of 99% of AFK "activities" including miners, links, cloakies, ratters you left unattended. Wanna have a longer break? Dock or log off or your ship will deactivate all modules and recall drones to drone bay.
Also AFK cloaking is not the same as AFK ratting or mining or autopiloted hauling. Those ships are exposed out in space and can be probed down, warped to, tackled and killed. You cannot do any of those things to AFK cloaky.
Where exactly is the problem with an AFK cloaker? It literally cant do anything.
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Persifonne
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:19:38 -
[13] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Where exactly is the problem with an AFK cloaker? It literally cant do anything.
THE SINGLE WORST OFFENSE (even bannable) IN ALL OF NEW EDEN....
LIMIT BEARS ISK SCORE!
Nullbears cant rat in null..... major probs yo. |
Nobax
Green Skull LLC
5
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:20:55 -
[14] - Quote
Make all local like wormhole local...
Problem solved. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2876
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:28:17 -
[15] - Quote
Funny thing is: cloakies have impact only in null or in very isolated lowsec systems. Nobody cares about cloaky in hisec.
I guess root of the "problem" is you don't know if he's AFK or not but you know his character is there because local shows him. And I generally don't like the idea of not playing a game being valid way of playing a game. You know, it's hard to play football while shopping or waiting at dentists waiting room.
Personally I don't have problems with cloakies AFK or not because in null I simply don't undock my ratting or mining ships and in lowsec I don't care about anything in local with me except of "can I gank it or not". But I have problem with calling anything done AFK a valid gameplay. And no, training and market don't count, those systems are designed for being AFK.
Invalid signature format
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13726
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:28:55 -
[16] - Quote
Nobax wrote:Make all local like wormhole local...
Problem solved.
When CCP does occupational sov and changes the way isk is earned they will get lost in the local list anyway.
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TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
909
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:36:26 -
[17] - Quote
Game design 101. Everything needs a counter. The moment some tactic or mechanic can not be countered, you've broken something.
This has nothing to do with 'get a fleet together and protect yourselves' or 'if 1 cloaker can shut down your system you don't deserve to be there'. Both of those points hold truth in a game like EVE.
But the fact of the matter is that a cloaker can not be engaged until the cloaker himself decides to engage. In other words, a cloaked ship can not be countered in any way. That's bad game design at its core and does need to be fixed in some way.
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Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
0
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:36:27 -
[18] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Sorry but anybody who says being AFK is valid gameplay is an idiot. If you are AFK you are not playing so where's gameplay?
To be honest I'm sure there are means that could be implemented to check if you really are at your keyboard. Usually if you are actively stalking somebody or you gather intel or set trap or anything else that is done under safety of cloak you chat or click d-scan or fly at some direction or warp around or check possible targets info (for ship and/or pilot), etc. There's no need to introduce fuel for cloak or anything like that, that would just make genuine cloaked hunters life more hassle. "Simple" set of UI interaction checks would probably get rid of 99% of AFK "activities" including miners, links, cloakies, ratters you left unattended. Wanna have a longer break? Dock or log off or your ship will deactivate all modules and recall drones to drone bay.
Also AFK cloaking is not the same as AFK ratting or mining or autopiloted hauling. Those ships are exposed out in space and can be probed down, warped to, tackled and killed. You cannot do any of those things to AFK cloaky.
Regarding AFK Cloaking, in a way, I can (partially) see the point of it. In another way, there's no real problem with it.
Giving your enemy the false impression of a presence is a tactic. So is spoofing your numbers or strategy. Also, afk cloaking doesn't really...affect anything. It's literally just +1 in Local. No one who's smart enough to fit a cloak is too dumb to hop belts looking for you. If you're ratting in null, you're either in a belt or anom. It's not that hard to find you. If a good amount of time passes and nothing happens, it's (mostly) safe to assume that person is actually AFK. Then again, regardless, it's nullsec and you should be prepared anyway.
On the topic of AFK not being a valid form of gameplay, you're an idiot. Not everything needs to be mentally, physically, and sexually involved in this game. I'm sure mining needs some changes but I don't want a ******* hacking mini-game on every cycle. Much like I don't want to solve a puzzle to initiate warp drive. Not everything needs to be that involved.
tl;dr i dont see the problem stop being bad |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
761
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:39:21 -
[19] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Sorry but anybody who says being AFK is valid gameplay is an idiot. If you are AFK you are not playing so where's gameplay?
I say someone who doesnt understand how being afk is part of the gameplay is an idiot. When I enter local all bears hide in station. Now I have 2 options, leaving system and going afk or semi-afk (reading forums). While I am watching TV or bang my gf the bears seeing me in local are forced either to come out ratting with me in local or stop playing (leaving system is too much for many as it involves using a gate), which possibly puts me into comfortable position of finding a bear in belt 2h later which I can pewpew I couldnt before thanks to local. You see how being afk is part of gameplay now?
local works fine both ways, for bears safety and for the attacker too (stalking, psychological warfare). |
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
172
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:40:44 -
[20] - Quote
AFK cloaking is not to be removed, contrary to the OP. However, in the past CCP did express the desire to do something with local as an intel tool. So, perhaps, one day we'll see the end of the "social power" of the AFK cloakers once and for all - but not the way the nullsec bot aspirants expect...
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
289
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:56:55 -
[21] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Sorry but anybody who says being AFK is valid gameplay is an idiot. If you are AFK you are not playing so where's gameplay? Not true, I can have an AIMbot play for me...um wait, what?
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13728
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Posted - 2014.10.30 10:58:17 -
[22] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:
But the fact of the matter is that a cloaker can not be engaged until the cloaker himself decides to engage. In other words, a cloaked ship can not be countered in any way. That's bad game design at its core and does need to be fixed in some way.
Its countered by the fact that an AFK cloaker cannot do anything.
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Alice Johansen
Atztech Inc. Ixtab.
7
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:04:45 -
[23] - Quote
Just remove cloaked characters from local. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2876
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:06:37 -
[24] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Sorry but anybody who says being AFK is valid gameplay is an idiot. If you are AFK you are not playing so where's gameplay? I say someone who doesnt understand how being afk is part of the gameplay is an idiot. When I enter local all bears hide in station. Now I have 2 options, leaving system and going afk or semi-afk (reading forums). While I am watching TV or bang my gf the bears seeing me in local are forced either to come out ratting with me in local or stop playing (leaving system is too much for many as it involves using a gate), which possibly puts me into comfortable position of finding a bear in belt 2h later which I can pewpew I couldnt before thanks to local. You see how being afk is part of gameplay now? local works fine both ways, for bears safety and for the attacker too (stalking, psychological warfare).
Thing is when you are banging your gf you are not playing Eve unless she's jumping on your junk while you are clicking around and looking over her shoulder. And if you are not playing the game you are not part of gameplay. Just my opinion and we can argue about it till Christmas without any resolution because right now game works how it works and we can do nothing about it.
Regardless of cloakies being AFK or not, game mechanics should promote activity not lack of it.
Invalid signature format
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13730
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:28:17 -
[25] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote: Regardless of cloakies being AFK or not, game mechanics should promote activity not lack of it.
They do, hence why when you afk cloak you can do nothing.
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Myassa
Chaktaren Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:30:50 -
[26] - Quote
I have learned from my time in null that there is a very easy and simple counter to the afk cloaky camper. Use your own cloaky camper to camp the cloaky camper! They seem to hate that and do not stay in system for very long. I am guessing they do not want to blop something and then in turn get blopped themselves. All I know is that it works great! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
909
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:31:31 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:
But the fact of the matter is that a cloaker can not be engaged until the cloaker himself decides to engage. In other words, a cloaked ship can not be countered in any way. That's bad game design at its core and does need to be fixed in some way.
Its countered by the fact that an AFK cloaker cannot do anything.
That's not a counter, that's a restriction on the cloaker's part. It doesn't help any potential attacker to kill him.
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Presidente Gallente
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
131
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:38:17 -
[28] - Quote
This is the never ending posting on the forums for ages.
I can understand that pure carebears have a problem with afk-cloakers. But the problem is based on the fact that they are not able to or maybe not prepared to or maybe too lazy to or finally not willing to counter them.
Time by time we have afk-cloakers in our primary ratting system. At the first glance it might be annoying. But for a true PvPer it isn't. I for myself do Anoms. If we have an afk-cloaker I simply do a break and do something else. The idea of the enemy is to stop a corp/alliance from making ISK or to catch carebears. As someone with a rich wallet I don't care. And so do most of EXE.
I just start to collect as much intel as possible. The easiest way is to look at the killboards. If there's nothing special because it's a fresh char you can find out by baiting. There are not really many options what could happen: tackle for Blops, tackle for hot-drop (if the system isn't cyno-jammed), tackle for support next door (like Interceptors), tackle for a solo kill (yes, come to me and die!).
So now tell me: where's the threat? All options can be countered if you can bring a fleet. If not: do something else. Leave the system and the afk-cloaker will disappear after a few days because it makes no sense to waste a char staying in an empty system forever.
Conclusion: counter instead of complaining. There's no problem in EVE what can't be solved. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13730
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:40:19 -
[29] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:
That's not a counter, that's a restriction on the cloaker's part. It doesn't help any potential attacker to kill him.
Its also not a threat to anything because it cannot do anything.
Shall we now force people to undock from stations or leave a POS?
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
508
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Posted - 2014.10.30 11:42:17 -
[30] - Quote
If AFK cloaking is so bad how come no one badmouths my AFK cloaker in highsec mission hubs huh HUH!?! CHECKMATE ATHEIST!!
HECK EVEN MY AFK CLOAKER IN WH SPACE GET'S IGNORED!!! PEOPLE EVEN IGNORE MY AFK CLOAKY IN LOWSEC!!!
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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