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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
177
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Posted - 2014.10.31 07:11:40 -
[1] - Quote
Okay, with the removal of death-cloning around the corner, can we think about removing or capping clone costs?
They made some sense as a fee for capital pilots hopping around, but even then weren't much of an isk sink anyway. And they are certainly a good-will sink: it stinks that your clone costs ten times as much as your ship on a frig roam.
I don't think they add much to the game, and I'd like to see them removed or capped at something like 2 million. |
Paranoid Loyd
2463
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Posted - 2014.10.31 07:13:59 -
[2] - Quote
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
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Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
177
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Posted - 2014.10.31 07:16:42 -
[3] - Quote
Yup, weak joke on death clone distant travel. Apologies.
But would you support trimming the costs of high sp clones at all? |
Paranoid Loyd
2463
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Posted - 2014.10.31 07:19:38 -
[4] - Quote
Sorry it took me a minute, I am drunk and tired.
While the argument about compared to frig cost does make sense, either way the clones are not all that expensive. If you have been around long enough to have an expensive one, you should more than be able to afford it.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23517
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Posted - 2014.10.31 08:13:43 -
[5] - Quote
For the rest of us who are open to discussion, rather than eager to declare the thread and discussion closed,
OP you're right, there's a connection between med clone costs and jump mechanics. The gameplay tax isn't justified now that death clone travel simply doesn't work. Post-Phoebe, clone loss will be a "go to jail, do not pass Go, do not collect $200."
I have a thread open in Assembly Hall, which is a little brash, but it's over an issue I unsubbed 3/4 of my accounts over. with a gang of nearly 1.3 Billion SP that can be welped at once, at the cost of half a PLEX to replace med clones, it's simply a bad idea.
In a game where .01 ISK and narrow profit margins drive Industry and Market, saying "suck it up" to tens of million ISK is pretty damn bullheaded.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5504
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Posted - 2014.10.31 08:28:46 -
[6] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Sorry it took me a minute, I am drunk and tired. While the argument about compared to frig cost does make sense, either way the clones are not all that expensive. If you have been around long enough to have an expensive one, you should more than be able to afford it. What an asinine thing to say.
The Paradox
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Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic The Big Dirty
90
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Posted - 2014.10.31 09:05:27 -
[7] - Quote
Or don't get podded.
Gÿå The Explorer I
Gÿå The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
55
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Posted - 2014.10.31 09:17:07 -
[8] - Quote
I had to google death cloning, because no one I knew ever called it that. Now I googled for the source of this claim but seem to fail at finding it. Where the hell is this being talked about? There's no thread in F&I either.
Thanks! |
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
284
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Posted - 2014.10.31 09:28:11 -
[9] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:I had to google death cloning, because no one I knew ever called it that. Now I googled for the source of this claim but seem to fail at finding it. Where the hell is this being talked about? There's no thread in F&I either.
Thanks!
Look in the Information Portal, Dev Blogs, Phoebe Travel Changes. Go to the paragraph on medical clones.
It's to stop people just changing their home station then self-destructing their pod to move around. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
702
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Posted - 2014.10.31 09:30:56 -
[10] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I have a thread open in Assembly Hall, which is a little brash, but it's over an issue I unsubbed 3/4 of my accounts over. with a gang of nearly 1.3 Billion SP that can be welped at once, at the cost of half a PLEX to replace med clones, it's simply a bad idea. Suck it up. CCP should remove clone coverage all together, all ships should cause loss of SP very much like a T3 crusier when the ship goes pop, smaller ships cause greater loss of SP while bigger ships offer greater "protection" for the hitpoint trade off, and the only trade off is the isk involved for the price of the hull or the price of the pod (clone coverage).
Fly cheap with less SP or fly expensive with more skill points for that hitpoint buffer + DPS a battleship/cap gives you, risk the isk or lose the SP.....cause your entire complaint reeks of risk aversion once a limit has been reached that a human psyche cannot tolerate anymore; I distinctly remember Goons slamming Hulks into space dust a few years back and what would you know....you are a Goon complaining that suddenly it "costs to much" to fly a ship yet hulks were getting damn expensive while Goons manipulated the market. Suddenly clone costs are getting too high, but you are probably dying more often then making the income to replace it....sounds like poor playing ability. HTFU and fly what you can afford, pod included which stores the back up of your skill points.
Like I said, risk the isk or risk the skill points.....both should be risked. Sounds fair, there isn't one cost valued in isk....there is just the value of RISK.
Hell, the entire death of a clone sounds like the solution to your problem....CCP just needs to allow the ability to remove a section of the skill points from the main pilot and distribute to another "clone" .....now your clone is "cheaper", but its going to cost more since you will not be immortal |
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23517
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Posted - 2014.10.31 09:43:06 -
[11] - Quote
shitpost with your main
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
55
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Posted - 2014.10.31 09:53:32 -
[12] - Quote
voetius wrote:Sol Project wrote:I had to google death cloning, because no one I knew ever called it that. Now I googled for the source of this claim but seem to fail at finding it. Where the hell is this being talked about? There's no thread in F&I either.
Thanks! Look in the Information Portal, Dev Blogs, Phoebe Travel Changes. Go to the paragraph on medical clones. It's to stop people just changing their home station then self-destructing their pod to move around. Thanks. Guess I should have done more digging. It's a shame this gets removed. I loved travelling by DEATH! |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
126
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Posted - 2014.10.31 10:00:28 -
[13] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I have a thread open in Assembly Hall, which is a little brash, but it's over an issue I unsubbed 3/4 of my accounts over. with a gang of nearly 1.3 Billion SP that can be welped at once, at the cost of half a PLEX to replace med clones, it's simply a bad idea. Suck it up. CCP should remove clone coverage all together, all ships should cause loss of SP very much like a T3 crusier when the ship goes pop, smaller ships cause greater loss of SP while bigger ships offer greater "protection" for the hitpoint trade off, and the only trade off is the isk involved for the price of the hull or the price of the pod (clone coverage). Fly cheap with less SP or fly expensive with more skill points for that hitpoint buffer + DPS a battleship/cap gives you, risk the isk or lose the SP.....cause your entire complaint reeks of risk aversion once a limit has been reached that a human psyche cannot tolerate anymore; I distinctly remember Goons slamming Hulks into space dust a few years back and what would you know....you are a Goon complaining that suddenly it "costs to much" to fly a ship yet hulks were getting damn expensive while Goons manipulated the market. Suddenly clone costs are getting too high, but you are probably dying more often then making the income to replace it....sounds like poor playing ability. HTFU and fly what you can afford, pod included which stores the back up of your skill points. Like I said, risk the isk or risk the skill points.....both should be risked. Sounds fair, there isn't one cost valued in isk....there is just the value of RISK. Hell, the entire death of a clone sounds like the solution to your problem....CCP just needs to allow the ability to remove a section of the skill points from the main pilot and distribute to another "clone" .....now your clone is "cheaper", but its going to cost more since you will not be immortal Are you actually dumb enough to think that this is a good idea?
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23518
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Posted - 2014.10.31 10:13:21 -
[14] - Quote
my ceo said I can post on an alt. my main is for hauling and mining, and we don't want unwanted attention.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
287
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Posted - 2014.10.31 10:13:30 -
[15] - Quote
You k-space people have problems... I would already be glad if I could change my clone in w-space, so that I don't have to fly around in a 10mio isk ship with a 1b isk clone whenever I want to use one of those frig holes. The base clone costs are negligible compared to that. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23519
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Posted - 2014.10.31 10:16:46 -
[16] - Quote
no, invalid. It's not as true now, but j-holes have a reasonable expectation of privacy. you hide and pod-die sometimes.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5020
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Posted - 2014.10.31 10:43:19 -
[17] - Quote
I'm still in favour of a monthly subscription for clones so carebears pay the bills while combat pilots can happily die over and over again.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23527
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Posted - 2014.10.31 11:01:24 -
[18] - Quote
The issue is we're all paying a monthly subscription, and a med clone cost is double subscription +.
Unlike Industry and market which are based on, and designed to provide a good chance for, a net gain of ISK, PVP is [already] inherently lossy. the medical clone cost is ISK that disappears from the game, in addition to game assets that are destroyed (ships, fittings, cargo, implants). medical clone costs are an example of CCP double dipping, no, triple dipping: subscription, asset loss, med clone fee.
subscriptions are justified by real-world commerce. asset loss (ship, fitting, cargo, implants) are justified by in-game commerce. med clone costs are justified by lore.
it's not "fine" because the cost of med clones can add up to an unlimited sum of ISK that is -deleted- from the game. It is not throttled by number of times per day, or total ISK lost per day. it is literally a black hole of ISK, and with telemortation coming to an end, there is no practical benefit. it is a huge gameplay tax on PVP, which is the one play style that would keep the player economy running through asset loss if it wasn't for this giant hole in the jugular.
clone cost ISK benefits no one other than CCP. not the player, not the player economy. and we're already paying CCP.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
126
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Posted - 2014.10.31 11:39:11 -
[19] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: clone cost ISK benefits no one other than CCP. not the player, not the player economy. and we're already paying CCP.
Why it dosen't benefit the player economy? I agree it's a small and less relevant isk sink, but it is a isk sink nonetheless. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23529
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Posted - 2014.10.31 11:56:58 -
[20] - Quote
true, it's a smaller ISK sink for some, and it's not an ISK sink at all for many. it's like a risk, and it's as if people avert it.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:01:42 -
[21] - Quote
Maybe they should introduce a skill that lowers clone costs.
Rank 32. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23529
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:03:20 -
[22] - Quote
YOU SHUT YOUR HOR MOUTH
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2014.10.31 12:22:35 -
[23] - Quote
But when you lose your clone, you lose the implants so the costs are as usual anyway. Hey that makes CCPsense.
Rank 64. Even better. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
809
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:10:45 -
[24] - Quote
I would probably address clone cost like this. This is a bit of give and take because we have to keep clone values up and some isk sinks going regardless.
1) Remove all costs of updating clones. 2) Remove all clone updates 3) Increase the cost to install a jump clone to 10 to 20 million isk per at a station. 4) There is no longer any skill loss when podded if not having a updated clone (removes the necessity of updating the clone itself) 5) Implants can no longer be installed or removed in space.
Skill loss is pretty pointless in the game. No one likes nor wants that stuff to occur. It also removes the need for the mandatory Medical bay in virtually every player owned nullsec system in game.
The implant ripping out before you die is a little silly, considering how everybody says "Your in a pod of goo". How exactly could you possibly remove implants?
Yea it'll hurt some peoples kill-boards. ... so.
Yaay!!!!
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Jur Tissant
The TERRA Guardians of Serenity
263
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:10:58 -
[25] - Quote
Just remove them. There is really no point in tiered medical clones except to make people lose weeks of training because they forgot to file the right paperwork.
If tiered medclones did not already exist in the game, nobody would think it would be a good idea to introduce them now. So they aren't contributing to a positive gameplay experience. |
Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
145
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Posted - 2014.10.31 13:48:56 -
[26] - Quote
^^ This tbh. It's the simplest solution and the one that makes the most sense. My... "best friend" is at 150 mill SP and eventually decided to roll a frig alt for PvP. Surely "moar alts" can't be the answer. |
rofflesausage
State War Academy Caldari State
194
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Posted - 2014.10.31 14:07:43 -
[27] - Quote
Jur Tissant wrote:Just remove them. There is really no point in tiered medical clones except to make people lose weeks of training because they forgot to file the right paperwork.
If tiered medclones did not already exist in the game, nobody would think it would be a good idea to introduce them now. So they aren't contributing to a positive gameplay experience.
I think it's worse than that. When you come to train new players they're just another thing that are a pain in the arse. You're absolutely right on the gameplay aspect, purely because it's a forced gameplay mechanic.
I'd much prefer a different approach: Modular pods.
A pod will have one slot. By default, every pod has a 'clone' module which keeps 100% of your skill points when podded.
You can replace this module with others that enhance your pod (maybe ship?), but you lose SP a result if you're podded. The other modules could be anything from speed increases, to warp speed, to tank, +1 stabs....whatever.
The modules are 'fitted' in the same way as you buy a medical clone - you have a panel in station that allows you to swap them out. Every change incurs a cost. The modules are not on the market, but rather 'seeded' by the game (like clones). This ensures ISK is still being taken out of the system.
You could have it so the pod comes empty, and you need to install the 'clone' module from the start if people like the current way. It also means that ISK would have to leave the system, as you'd need to buy it. There would be no relation so SP amount - you just buy the module. Keep It Simple.
You would be able to modify your pod in any station. None of this medical clone crap which just gets in the way.
Modular pods: A way for actual reward : risk : cost to work for pods. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
392
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Posted - 2014.10.31 16:46:35 -
[28] - Quote
- Remove clone costs/updating (remove ISK sink) - Remove insurance (remove ISK faucet)
Even stevens. |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
147
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Posted - 2014.10.31 16:52:19 -
[29] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Aqriue wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I have a thread open in Assembly Hall, which is a little brash, but it's over an issue I unsubbed 3/4 of my accounts over. with a gang of nearly 1.3 Billion SP that can be welped at once, at the cost of half a PLEX to replace med clones, it's simply a bad idea. Suck it up. CCP should remove clone coverage all together, all ships should cause loss of SP very much like a T3 crusier when the ship goes pop, smaller ships cause greater loss of SP while bigger ships offer greater "protection" for the hitpoint trade off, and the only trade off is the isk involved for the price of the hull or the price of the pod (clone coverage). Fly cheap with less SP or fly expensive with more skill points for that hitpoint buffer + DPS a battleship/cap gives you, risk the isk or lose the SP.....cause your entire complaint reeks of risk aversion once a limit has been reached that a human psyche cannot tolerate anymore; I distinctly remember Goons slamming Hulks into space dust a few years back and what would you know....you are a Goon complaining that suddenly it "costs to much" to fly a ship yet hulks were getting damn expensive while Goons manipulated the market. Suddenly clone costs are getting too high, but you are probably dying more often then making the income to replace it....sounds like poor playing ability. HTFU and fly what you can afford, pod included which stores the back up of your skill points. Like I said, risk the isk or risk the skill points.....both should be risked. Sounds fair, there isn't one cost valued in isk....there is just the value of RISK. Hell, the entire death of a clone sounds like the solution to your problem....CCP just needs to allow the ability to remove a section of the skill points from the main pilot and distribute to another "clone" .....now your clone is "cheaper", but its going to cost more since you will not be immortal Are you actually dumb enough to think that this is a good idea?
Not empty quoting. And even truly dumb people think this is a dumb idea.
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
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DaReaper
Net 7
1178
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Posted - 2014.10.31 17:29:02 -
[30] - Quote
Not sure why no one noted this...
At eve vegas they mentioned both during one of the presentations and during the game design sesstion that they want to eliminate the cost of clones and the need to upgrade them. They do not believe it is a good death penalty and winds up making it so if you have a high cost clone (for exsample mine is up to 40m now [i'm rounding] ) it makes you not want to use a ship that cost less then your clone. Because why would I jump in a rifter and fit it to be about 10m isk, if when I blow up I could in theory lose another 40m to upgrade my clone?
Its something they are discussion now, in addition to a chance to have 'perma death' and up upgrade modifiers for clones. I think an example was givien that for perma death you could pay for a clone that trins like 3X's faster, but the risk is if you die.. then you die.
Or you could pay extra for a clone with a build in bonus, but your base clone is free.
Anyway I personally think clone cost need to go. losing a ship and all your fittings is enough of a death penalty.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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