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Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
358
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Posted - 2014.11.01 23:38:49 -
[1] - Quote
Simply put, I think having rigs that reduce armor hp screws over armor ships, especially small ones like the slicer or tormentor. I would propose simply shifting the hp reduction to hull rather than armor. Hopefully this would give kiters and active armor tankers a little more breathing room.
thoughts? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
601
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Posted - 2014.11.01 23:58:58 -
[2] - Quote
It's called having to make a trade off somewhere. No one is making you fit those rigs.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Humang
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
76
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Posted - 2014.11.02 00:58:02 -
[3] - Quote
Slow and tank or fast and frail. That's armor tanking for you.
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Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
358
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Posted - 2014.11.02 06:06:45 -
[4] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:It's called having to make a trade off somewhere. No one is making you fit those rigs. A trade off is shield rigs increasing sig radius. The only thing I'm asking for here is roughly something of the same equivalence. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
358
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Posted - 2014.11.02 06:09:32 -
[5] - Quote
Humang wrote:Slow and tank or fast and frail. That's armor tanking for you. I'm referring a little more to light buffer or active tank on frigs and cruisers here; quite recently actually they got rid of the dumb speed penalty to active tank armor rigs. If I'd want to be unreasonable I'd ask to take away the speed penalty to armor rigs, but I'm not. I'm just asking for equal representation for astronautic rigs on armor boats as on shield boats. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
348
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Posted - 2014.11.02 07:12:09 -
[6] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:It's called having to make a trade off somewhere. No one is making you fit those rigs. A trade off is shield rigs increasing sig radius. The only thing I'm asking for here is roughly something of the same equivalence. As both speed and signature radius are taken into consideration for damage application, they are roughly the same equivalence.
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Humang
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
77
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Posted - 2014.11.02 08:00:13 -
[7] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Humang wrote:Slow and tank or fast and frail. That's armor tanking for you. I'm referring a little more to light buffer or active tank on frigs and cruisers here; quite recently actually they got rid of the dumb speed penalty to active tank armor rigs. If I'd want to be unreasonable I'd ask to take away the speed penalty to armor rigs, but I'm not. I'm just asking for equal representation for astronautic rigs on armor boats as on shield boats. Hmm it does appear that I misunderstood what you were talking about in your OP, I apologize. But in reading it again I still think my statement stands so I am still on the fence about removing the armor hp reduction. It's a rig that directly addresses the negatives of a armor tank, and inversely affects its positives, but I agree that it doesn't apply well to active-armor-kite fits.
I can't offer any kind of alternative or compromise though.
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Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
358
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Posted - 2014.11.02 08:02:35 -
[8] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:It's called having to make a trade off somewhere. No one is making you fit those rigs. A trade off is shield rigs increasing sig radius. The only thing I'm asking for here is roughly something of the same equivalence. As both speed and signature radius are taken into consideration for damage application, they are roughly the same equivalence. The former you refer to is for armor rigs. I am referring to astronautic rigs in this post. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
358
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Posted - 2014.11.02 08:03:41 -
[9] - Quote
Humang wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Humang wrote:Slow and tank or fast and frail. That's armor tanking for you. I'm referring a little more to light buffer or active tank on frigs and cruisers here; quite recently actually they got rid of the dumb speed penalty to active tank armor rigs. If I'd want to be unreasonable I'd ask to take away the speed penalty to armor rigs, but I'm not. I'm just asking for equal representation for astronautic rigs on armor boats as on shield boats. Hmm it does appear that I misunderstood what you were talking about in your OP, I apologize. But in reading it again I still think my statement stands so I am still on the fence about removing the armor hp reduction. It's a rig that directly addresses the negatives of a armor tank, and inversely affects its positives, but I agree that it doesn't apply well to active-armor-kite fits. I can't offer any kind of alternative or compromise though. You're still removing hull. It's not like there's any rigs that reduce shield hp as a penalty, are there? |
Humang
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
77
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Posted - 2014.11.02 08:26:06 -
[10] - Quote
Electronic Superiority Rigs reduce shield HP, but I think I might have missed the sarcasm there...
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
522
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Posted - 2014.11.02 11:46:29 -
[11] - Quote
CCP probably chose armour as its the most universally "bad" hit a ship can take for most ships in game.
Shield tankers use armour to varying degrees whether they know it or not. I am in the TSM 4 is all you need club for example. What this means is to some extent I rely on armour HP. As I willingly accept I will bleed into armour if shields getting hit hard. If I run these rigs, I have less armour hp. And bleeding induced by TSM not being 5 hurts more. then you have the armour tanking jam rides. They need armour....as much as they can get.
If by chance someone is trying hull tanking fulltime, they are using armour as buffer until its time to play hull tanking games.
And well armour has been addressed as needing armour for obvious reasons.
Switch from armour to hull tank nor really a a downside here. While I am certified daft (I even have my hull tanking elite certificate CCP kindly made as an item when they changed from certs to masteries and this cert with possibly coolest description was removed) I have never hull tanked full-time. Not many do pure hull tanking either.
So lets have this hit hull HP. Shield is not affected. They reach hull they are dead anyway. Squishy would be an upgrade for them at this point.
Armour is not really affected. They play some hull damage bleeding games but are generally screwed here as well. Not as bad as shield tankers but if reaching hull its becoming a skill contest. Whose thermodynamic and nano paste skills are better as its most likely full-time cooking to get the reps back on the armour ASAP no matter the costs. That and armour triple dips here.....they use some shield buffer as well. If shields ate up say 600 damage, thats 600 damage that had to chew through shields to actually hits the real tank of the ship to now grind down.
And you have the very small percentage of true hull tankers affected. And once you slap in say bulkheads...its not like they'd run astro rigs anyway. It be like going to BK, ordering 2 super sized value meals to eat by yourself and getting a diet coke to limit calories taken in.
Maybe the warp ones but that be on orca I'd say offhand to make long routes tolerable to travel. And orca by and large dual tanks anyway and is rare in not being fail fit for doing so. Shield in mid and bulkheads in lows a quite common for fit. It won't miss the lost hull HP....they have the dual tank in shields to compensate. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
440
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Posted - 2014.11.02 12:46:58 -
[12] - Quote
Some astro rigs reduce cpu, it isn't consistent. |
Scatim Helicon
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3069
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Posted - 2014.11.02 13:11:03 -
[13] - Quote
"Dear CCP, the trade off in fitting this rig affects something that matters to me, please fix this so the penalty applies to something that doesn't matter to me".
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
937
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Posted - 2014.11.02 14:02:20 -
[14] - Quote
the trade off should be cargohold
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
237
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Posted - 2014.11.02 14:05:19 -
[15] - Quote
+1
Armour effecting Speed and Speed effecting Armour is unfairly circular when put up against Shield rigs.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Arla Sarain
91
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Posted - 2014.11.02 14:40:55 -
[16] - Quote
Hopefully no more buffs will be given to kiting.
-1. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
359
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Posted - 2014.11.02 14:56:15 -
[17] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Some astro rigs reduce cpu, it isn't consistent. Yeah they're annoyingly inconsistent about it |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
359
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Posted - 2014.11.02 14:57:16 -
[18] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Hopefully no more buffs will be given to kiting.
-1. How is this a buff? HP would still be lost as an offset. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
359
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Posted - 2014.11.02 14:59:09 -
[19] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:the trade off should be cargohold yeah i get how that could work too, and I'd maybe support it for the speed rigs potentially, but logic-wise if you're making engine improvements, the space for the extra equipment should come from the ship's hull itself, and not the actual devoted armor protection, which makes no physical sense to me. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
527
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Posted - 2014.11.02 16:54:44 -
[20] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Harvey James wrote:the trade off should be cargohold yeah i get how that could work too, and I'd maybe support it for the speed rigs potentially, but logic-wise if you're making engine improvements, the space for the extra equipment should come from the ship's hull itself, and not the actual devoted armor protection, which makes no physical sense to me.
Think street race car.
You tend to not touch the frame on "normal" modification. Normal meaning not massive stuff where you are dropping motors never intended for that car in any way in. Most everything else goes though.
At some point stock body panels that are more resilient (usually) are replaced with carbon fiber. To be street legal for example....larger tires to get you the rubber to handle the power usually require over sized fenders to clear the tire lip for inspections. These could be CF....and CF doesn't dent or ding when hit hard, it shatters.
Putting in a larger core intercooler for a turbo powered ride? You are using stock hull mounting most times. Your front bumper (or the armour as it were) may be adjusted a little to alot to fit it though . Street race care people tend to get very skilled at shade tree bumper repair....they get many chances to practice it. Curb bumps that ding and flex stock ones....mess up cf and fiber glass bumbers much worse. Duct tape and zipties are your friends here if you go down this route. What I could do with zipties in my prime for oh crap repairs..... |
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Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
472
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Posted - 2014.11.02 18:31:44 -
[21] - Quote
While I think that astronautics rigs are rather useless(when compared to the benefits of others), I think it would be better to buff the rigs contributions rather than nerf the drawbacks. To reiterate, I think the drawbacks are fine, but a 50m/s bonus on a MWD frigate is worthless in my opinion. Not when I can cut down my lock time by a good 2-3 seconds.
Schrodinger's Hot Dropper
The Fate of Forum Alts
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
604
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Posted - 2014.11.02 18:35:28 -
[22] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:While I think that astronautics rigs are rather useless(when compared to the benefits of others), I think it would be better to buff the rigs contributions rather than nerf the drawbacks. To reiterate, I think the drawbacks are fine, but a 50m/s bonus on a MWD frigate is worthless in my opinion. Not when I can cut down my lock time by a good 2-3 seconds.
See, I disagree with you. You choose to cut your lock time down. I choose to be more agile, or slightly faster. Different priorities, different fits. That tells me it is pretty well balanced. There should never be one clearly superior option.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
195
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Posted - 2014.11.02 21:47:07 -
[23] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Kaerakh wrote:While I think that astronautics rigs are rather useless(when compared to the benefits of others), I think it would be better to buff the rigs contributions rather than nerf the drawbacks. To reiterate, I think the drawbacks are fine, but a 50m/s bonus on a MWD frigate is worthless in my opinion. Not when I can cut down my lock time by a good 2-3 seconds. See, I disagree with you. You choose to cut your lock time down. I choose to be more agile, or slightly faster. Different priorities, different fits. That tells me it is pretty well balanced. There should never be one clearly superior option. For shiny mission blitzing warpspeed rigs are nearly mandatory.
Yes, I do incursions. Find out more here
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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