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Wafflehead
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
107
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Posted - 2014.11.03 09:22:29 -
[1] - Quote
Contents 1. Loan Terms & Conditions 2. Explanation of Terms & Conditions 3. Loan Purpose 4. Loan Risks 5. Exit Strategy 6. Investor Information 7. Investor List 8. Previous Completed Loans 9. Previous Investors
1. Bond Terms & Conditions
Total Bond Size: 40B (40 Billion) Rate: 10% Collateral: None Start Date: 03 Nov 2014* End Date: 03 Feb, 2014* *Dates may change according to ISK receipt date
2. Explanation of Terms & Conditions
40B ISK bond with 10% interest paid per month.
No collateral: It simply is not feasible for me to provide a sizable portion of the principle without seriously disrupting my trading and, therefore, this is something that I will not be offering.
Interest: Will be paid at the end of the term within 24 hours of the end date.
Pull-Out: If you wish to pull-out then the interest earned will be calculated on a daily basis and you will not receieve the full 10%. You must give 48 hours notice.
3. Bond Purpose
Expanding into 2 new market hubs - Amarr & Rens - Capital will be used for escrow
4. Bond Risks
Wardec: I will not be leaving the station to do anything. Public courier contracts are used to move any items.
5. Exit Strategy
If anything was to go wrong then all buy orders will be cancelled and sell orders will be priority. All principal and the current months interest will be given.
6. Investor Information
Investors may invest as much as they want, but with a minimum investment of 1B. Public investors please post here and declare your interest. Any silent investors please contact me via eve-mail
7. Investor List flakeys - 40B *Reserved
8. Previous Completed Loans:
G£ö 28B @ 10% G£ö 12B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 8B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 4B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 2B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 2B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 1B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 1B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 1B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 1B @ 15% - 1 Month
9. Previous Investors
GÇó flakeys GÇó Philadelphia lawyer GÇó Pinnel GÇó Kraillach GÇó Michelle P1H9A8N1 GÇó okoolos rimmer GÇó I Was There GÇó Plato Idari |
Wafflehead
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
107
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Posted - 2014.11.03 09:24:17 -
[2] - Quote
I have reserved the full loan to flakeys as we have been in talks with a new loan. Pending confirmaton and receipt of ISK the loan will start. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2573
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Posted - 2014.11.03 16:49:03 -
[3] - Quote
40 B transfered
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Wafflehead
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
107
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Posted - 2014.11.03 16:55:41 -
[4] - Quote
Received. Loan will start from today. I will post monthly updates.
Thanks |
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
617
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Posted - 2014.11.06 10:34:25 -
[5] - Quote
I think you two make a wonderful couple. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2574
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 12:38:14 -
[6] - Quote
Uppsy Daisy wrote:I think you two make a wonderful couple.
I agree but unfortunatly waffle only dates people who actually like to log in to the game and has a 'no forum-romance' rule . .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
617
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Posted - 2014.11.07 11:54:44 -
[7] - Quote
I guess with these new infinite skill queues, you may never have to log in again.
If only you could spend all that ISK through the forums somehow. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2575
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Posted - 2014.11.08 07:22:41 -
[8] - Quote
Uppsy Daisy wrote:I guess with these new infinite skill queues, you may never have to log in again.
If only you could spend all that ISK through the forums somehow.
I don't need to spend my isk , i've got old beta friends who do that for me at the moment ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Serene Python
41
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Posted - 2014.11.10 04:40:01 -
[9] - Quote
Wafflehead wrote: End Date: 03 Feb, 2014*
I hope this is just a typo. Otherwise Flakeys may be in for a hurting. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2576
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Posted - 2014.11.10 08:47:58 -
[10] - Quote
Serene Python wrote:Wafflehead wrote: End Date: 03 Feb, 2014*
I hope this is just a typo. Otherwise Flakeys may be in for a hurting.
Let's go back into time , wayyyy back into time ...
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2669
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Posted - 2015.02.04 19:16:48 -
[11] - Quote
Someones throwing a party and i ain't invited ....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2669
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Posted - 2015.02.04 19:19:57 -
[12] - Quote
On a sidenote , as we are dealing with a default the only way out for me is to do a reverse ricdic , offers welcome through evemail and or ingame contacting .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
55
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Posted - 2015.02.04 19:41:24 -
[13] - Quote
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5642
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Posted - 2015.02.05 08:16:21 -
[14] - Quote
Ouch.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Angelica Everstar
84
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Posted - 2015.02.05 10:39:59 -
[15] - Quote
§ Any typos, bad spelling or grammar found, are yours to keep.
¢ Bonds: Current AE07 1 Trillion (Filled) // Total : 2+ Trillon ISK
¦Æ Angel ConsultingGäó || Angel's Pawn ShopGäó
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
723
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Posted - 2015.02.05 10:43:27 -
[16] - Quote
Better it happen now with 40B than on the next one with 80B. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2671
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Posted - 2015.02.05 11:42:34 -
[17] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Better it happen now with 40B than on the next one with 80B.
I've given away over half of my isk over the last months and everything i 'aquire' through loans directly goes to friends too BB . I'm still around for the chat/nostalgia but haven't actually played for the last 4 months or so and don't intend to at all.So allthough a 40 B loss still is a 40 B loss it's not something i give more then a 'shrug' about these days.It allready amazed me that it took over 3 years before i had a default , the last one was the 'anti-goon yih 'scam or whatever chinese name he had just before they lost all their sov in the south .I think that's even longer then 3 years but unsure and can't be arsed to have a look.
I was more annoyed getting kicked out of division 4 in FIFA15 this week all the way back to division 6 then this loss , or any eve loss for that matter as i still have around 200B in uncollateralised loans running.Even with a 5-3-2 setup my defense still got walked over and worst part is when they got their mic open and you can hear a 10 year old kid go crazy because he scored his 6th goal of the match while i couldn't get one behind the net .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5644
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Posted - 2015.02.06 08:50:29 -
[18] - Quote
flakeys wrote: So allthough a 40 B loss still is a 40 B loss it's not something i give more then a 'shrug' about these days.It allready amazed me that it took over 3 years before i had a default
You can play a lot of funny stats with your records. Do you recall how many uncollateralized loans you have ever invested into, how much in total they have paid you in interests and how many defaults you have suffered? With those you can already get an idea with long term profitability (only because EvE economy has been both in inflation and deflation across the years). With 1 more datum (starting capital) you may even run Monte Carlo analyses and see how risky is to loan on MD. Results may sound funny, as RAW23 had shown in the past.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2672
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Posted - 2015.02.06 10:08:36 -
[19] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:flakeys wrote: So allthough a 40 B loss still is a 40 B loss it's not something i give more then a 'shrug' about these days.It allready amazed me that it took over 3 years before i had a default
You can play a lot of funny stats with your records. Do you recall how many uncollateralized loans you have ever invested into, how much in total they have paid you in interests and how many defaults you have suffered? With those you can already get an idea with long term profitability (only because EvE economy has been both in inflation and deflation across the years). With 1 more datum (starting capital) you may even run Monte Carlo analyses and see how risky is to loan on MD. Results may sound funny, as RAW23 had shown in the past.
Short answer is impossible.
I have given so many loans ingame that are not recorded unlike on MD and of wich i have no notes.Usually i just write it down on my notepad for example :' VV loan 50 B start 5/6 end 5/9 6 % interest' , and i add nothing more to it.The moment the loan is repaid i just erase it.I've never been fond of 'keeping my books ' on loans.
I can say for a fact that i have gained FAR more then i lost with my loans so far .Take this default and cut off the interests i gained from previous loans with waffle and you come to a total loss of around 10 to 15 B for example. But that would also give a wrong impression to how safe it is to invest in unsecured loans.I have allways been clear that when i invest i usually do it based on a small percent research and a high percent guttfeeling wich basically comes down to 'do you feel Lucky punk?' .
There is no way to have any % certainty about a repayment , regardless how big or small the loan is and if it is to a complete stranger or someone you view as a friend.My best example of that is Raw23 , even after he repaid me multiple times and at a certain point had around 100 B unsecured from me i still couldn't put a % on it how sure i was that i would get repaid.And that should tell you a lot because as you know i started viewing Raw23 more as a friend then a loaner pretty soon in our 'relationship'.
I believe i had around 5 at least to 10 defaults at most in my investments of wich this one was by far the biggest one.As said above , take off the accumulated interest and it's a 10 to 15 B loss so my estimate is i lost less in all my investments then i gained out of interests from my loans to Raw23 alone.So at the verry least all the rest is profits.
But meh statistics , investing is just another form of pvp .Win some loose some and if you can't handle loosing you shouldn't be doing it in the first place , regardless of what any statisticssheet might tell you .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Ruvin
175
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Posted - 2015.02.06 11:03:28 -
[20] - Quote
i was about to write how i didnt liked this loan ....
http://i.imgur.com/jGJQUXn.png
for the first post on forums , to be a loan one , so well written and thought was just odd .... Also needing a loan after 2 3 4 years of trading is just strange , youre either rich already or you stopped trading . I think she didnt even trade , just payed out the bonus while building rep . Waiting to cash in . Oh well :|
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5644
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Posted - 2015.02.06 14:47:58 -
[21] - Quote
Ruvin wrote:i was about to write how i didnt liked this loan .... http://i.imgur.com/jGJQUXn.png for the first post on forums , to be a loan one , so well written and thought was just odd .... Also needing a loan after 2 3 4 years of trading is just strange , youre either rich already or you stopped trading . I think she didnt even trade , just payed out the bonus while building rep . Waiting to cash in . Oh well :|
That's what "Auditors" were for.
They provided a "first filter" to keep out the worst investments. Just a quick API check reveals if a guy is a trader for real, his history, if he got alts. Emplyoing some more tricks of the trade it's possible to discover most hidden alts that don't show up on the API, past behavior, attitude towards risk, competence at handling stock... some attempts to play tricks and triangulations with alts / contracts... More in depth reports would reveal the real ability of the investees to make profit and "on the run" reports could reveal how good the guy was doing for real.
Well... that's been a good time. It's over, but it had been a good time.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
372
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 16:44:37 -
[22] - Quote
Wasn't this the same guy that Aryth nuked over his Geras tower?
And you guys kept loaning to him?
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2675
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Posted - 2015.02.06 17:04:34 -
[23] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Wasn't this the same guy that Aryth nuked over his Geras tower? And you guys kept loaning to him?
You see more then one investor?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
372
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 17:07:28 -
[24] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:Wasn't this the same guy that Aryth nuked over his Geras tower? And you guys kept loaning to him? You see more then one investor?
Sorry I will redirect the general blame directly to you for loaning to a guy who lost several tens of billions of assets while taking a loan, denying that he lost the assets, and continued on without providing any proof of profitability "trading" |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2675
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 18:17:12 -
[25] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:flakeys wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:Wasn't this the same guy that Aryth nuked over his Geras tower? And you guys kept loaning to him? You see more then one investor? Sorry I will redirect the general blame directly to you for loaning to a guy who lost several tens of billions of assets while taking a loan, denying that he lost the assets, and continued on without providing any proof of profitability "trading"
Now that makes more sense.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
476
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 15:56:52 -
[26] - Quote
I spent a lot of time and effort explaining that with increasing loan amounts in this way past repayment is not evidence of future repayment because the amount being asked for (ie his potential gain) is lower than the amount that he has previously been trusted with. It never made any sense for him to be still borrowing isk after all this time, there were a dozen issues with all of this and every single one of them was explained at length in previous topics.
Flakeys, you only have your own pride and greed to blame.
"Consider yourself in the position where you're about to repay the 12b loan. You could keep the isk or you could be honourable. Keeping the isk is worth 13.2b (12+10%), being honourable is worth 0. There is a 13.2b difference here. However if the honourable decision of repaying the 13.2b leads to you being given a loan of 15b, which you could then steal, you could do it profitably for dishonourable motives.
Imagine if you did no trading and this were all a giant rep grinding attempt. If you were to pay out 1.2b in interest then that would be a 1.2b loss, you would have 1.2b less in your wallet than you started with. However as long as you increased the size of the loan by more than that amount then you could offset the 1.2b you lost with the increased size of the eventual theft. Interestly enough every loan you have requested has increased in size by an amount greater than your interest amount. What this means is that while a loan is running the amount you are being trusted with is always greater than the amount you have paid out in interest to date. With this in mind I don't think your previous history in any way implies an honourable character, you could equally be motivated by profit.
Consider the following. I promise to send someone 20m back if they first send me 10m. We do this, I am now down 10m from my starting isk. However the decision to do this can still be rationalised beyond keeping my promise if I believe that by doing it he will trust me with sums greater than 10m. If we then repeat it with 50m, for example, and I choose to keep the 50m then that 10m I lost by honouring my promise was actually an investment which repaid itself four times only. How might we distinguish your service, whereby we send you isk with no assurances and you return it +10%, from the many other gentlemen who offer a similar service in Jita local? If anything your rates are actually really low. I hear one gentleman will turn my 500m into 5b." |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2676
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Posted - 2015.02.08 16:47:54 -
[27] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:I spent a lot of time and effort explaining that with increasing loan amounts in this way past repayment is not evidence of future repayment because the amount being asked for (ie his potential gain) is lower than the amount that he has previously been trusted with. It never made any sense for him to be still borrowing isk after all this time, there were a dozen issues with all of this and every single one of them was explained at length in previous topics.
Flakeys, you only have your own pride and greed to blame.
"1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 8, 12.
Are we seriously doing this? You guys really think this story ends well?
Hell, now I'm tempted to make an alt to do this ****."
"Consider yourself in the position where you're about to repay the 12b loan. You could keep the isk or you could be honourable. Keeping the isk is worth 13.2b (12+10%), being honourable is worth 0. There is a 13.2b difference here. However if the honourable decision of repaying the 13.2b leads to you being given a loan of 15b, which you could then steal, you could do it profitably for dishonourable motives.
Imagine if you did no trading and this were all a giant rep grinding attempt. If you were to pay out 1.2b in interest then that would be a 1.2b loss, you would have 1.2b less in your wallet than you started with. However as long as you increased the size of the loan by more than that amount then you could offset the 1.2b you lost with the increased size of the eventual theft. Interestly enough every loan you have requested has increased in size by an amount greater than your interest amount. What this means is that while a loan is running the amount you are being trusted with is always greater than the amount you have paid out in interest to date. With this in mind I don't think your previous history in any way implies an honourable character, you could equally be motivated by profit.
Consider the following. I promise to send someone 20m back if they first send me 10m. We do this, I am now down 10m from my starting isk. However the decision to do this can still be rationalised beyond keeping my promise if I believe that by doing it he will trust me with sums greater than 10m. If we then repeat it with 50m, for example, and I choose to keep the 50m then that 10m I lost by honouring my promise was actually an investment which repaid itself four times only. How might we distinguish your service, whereby we send you isk with no assurances and you return it +10%, from the many other gentlemen who offer a similar service in Jita local? If anything your rates are actually really low. I hear one gentleman will turn my 500m into 5b."
Consider it's a game dude.There's only one of us delusional of pride over a game and it ain't me , my past risk investments and pvp should show this.
Once again i don't give a **** about the loss , it's a form of pvp nothing more.You win some and you loose some.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
476
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Posted - 2015.02.08 22:48:29 -
[28] - Quote
"Didn't want that isk anyway" |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
372
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Posted - 2015.02.09 20:11:09 -
[29] - Quote
That's pretty salty
Someone must be sour they're not in j*wbal |
okoolos rimmer
Napkin Nation
85
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Posted - 2015.02.10 07:42:41 -
[30] - Quote
I have to say that if it wasn't for X_Atm I'd probably have invested with Waffle. He quite literally saved my hard earned bits of space bacon. He had the guy pegged from the beginning. |
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