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Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.04 21:27:12 -
[1] - Quote
Hello eve community was hoping people smarter than me could provide advice or perhaps a possible ships that could compete vs a worm. Can be specialized as hell if need be.
lets say standard buffer worm since im not sure it's even possible to take out the dual asb version with just a single ship since asb's are allowed to have 2 and be neut proof.... side bar why are 2 aar's not allowed you can counter with neuts and armor is the defense where you need 2 just to equal one oversized shield repper.. go figure... anyway back to point.
I was thinking perhaps firetail/dramiel could maybe have some success because of dmg selection or daredevil because of crazy dps but they seem to lack the tank to hold out vs the almighty worm... I thought maybe ecm jammers and put them on the 2 drones to try and negate a lot of the dps maybe dramiel or comet with 3 jam drones could maybe negate one drone for most the fight?
Would like to hear your thoughts and any succesful 1v1 wins vs non derp worms in novices or with a non t2 frig.
thx guys for any feedback and thoughts. |
Damen Apol
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
77
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Posted - 2014.11.04 23:23:43 -
[2] - Quote
Daredevil is a pretty hard-counter to a worm I think. |
Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.05 01:34:09 -
[3] - Quote
good suggestion I'm going to play devils advocate please counter if you feel i am wrong.
this was my thought but the worm gets same dps and more effective hitpoints. which I feel gives advantage to the worm because it will be doing full dps while the DD closes also worm will have unbonused web on dd prolonging the closing time. I don't see how a dd wins unless it lands on top. or worm warps into it and even then advantage seems to be going to worm maybe the fact DD can overload it's dps could win the day in second scenario |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
1293
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Posted - 2014.11.05 02:02:19 -
[4] - Quote
2 Worms.
Docked since 2009.
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Yuri Antollare
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
101
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Posted - 2014.11.05 02:39:29 -
[5] - Quote
Waffle Nips wrote: perhaps a possible ships that could compete vs a worm. Can be specialized as hell if need be.
a) Nothing beats a worm but a worm in a novice, even shitfit worms will sneeze and you will die.
b) The type of player that sits in a novice in a worm will also have boosts/crystals and quite likely a cloaky bantam. |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Templis CALSF
697
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Posted - 2014.11.05 03:25:27 -
[6] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Waffle Nips wrote: perhaps a possible ships that could compete vs a worm. Can be specialized as hell if need be. a) Nothing beats a worm but a worm in a novice, even shitfit worms will sneeze and you will die. b) The type of player that sits in a novice in a worm will also have boosts/crystals and quite likely a cloaky bantam.
I've had plenty of goodfights with jimbob in my worm in hyk. No boosts, no special implants (unless you count talons because of falcon :D) just good plain fun. He even killed it once with a comet.
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Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.05 03:34:39 -
[7] - Quote
Yuri Antollare wrote:Waffle Nips wrote: perhaps a possible ships that could compete vs a worm. Can be specialized as hell if need be. a) Nothing beats a worm but a worm in a novice, even shitfit worms will sneeze and you will die. b) The type of player that sits in a novice in a worm will also have boosts/crystals and quite likely a cloaky bantam.
this is somewhat true but also disingenuous as you can say that about a lot of ships and a lot of pilots. Obviously the guys that do asshattery **** like that suck and you just take the kill and never fight them again unless you have 10 guys. I'm talking about a normal pilot who perhaps at most has implants and booster. I feel eve has a way to counter most anything.. there are ships like right now the worm is op'd but it will get nerfed just like dramiel when it was op'd.. However even when dramiel was op'd there were ways to counter it so just trying to find people with possible ideas or ways to beat the flavor of the month overpowered pwn mobile before they nerf it.
With that said what tactics and fit did the comet defeat you with super .. also any thoughts to something like a dramiel with jam drones and a jam in the mid while armor tanked .. then go after the drones since there are only 2 and they are light drones... any chance other ewar works on drone perhaps you can neut them out with neut drones? or td drones for instance if you take just one drone out you take about 100dps away from a worm.. that can be powerful..
thx for comments though guys this is helpful perhaps if you have ship suggestion you can post possible fit or tactics hopefully both...thx |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2954
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Posted - 2014.11.05 03:58:48 -
[8] - Quote
slicer
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.05 07:17:31 -
[9] - Quote
does the speed of slicer/garmur or other kity ships mititgate the drone dmg enough to kill the worm seems like the drones do enough dmg when they catch up to drive a kity ship off... also thought they made drones faster? |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
766
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Posted - 2014.11.05 08:10:46 -
[10] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:2 Worms.
opening can of worms right there |
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Luwc
Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole
278
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Posted - 2014.11.05 08:48:39 -
[11] - Quote
two worms
http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
457
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Posted - 2014.11.05 09:15:40 -
[12] - Quote
I think a linked/snaked garmur can actually outrun the warriors/missiles. I've not tried it though.
It is a bit of a **** move though. |
Domino Vyse
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
31
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Posted - 2014.11.05 13:03:13 -
[13] - Quote
A kiting ship with two webs for both drones.
Hookbill? |
Damen Apol
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
77
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Posted - 2014.11.05 13:05:27 -
[14] - Quote
Waffle Nips wrote:good suggestion I'm going to play devils advocate please counter if you feel i am wrong.
this was my thought but the worm gets same dps and more effective hitpoints. which I feel gives advantage to the worm because it will be doing full dps while the DD closes also worm will have unbonused web on dd prolonging the closing time. I don't see how a dd wins unless it lands on top. or worm warps into it and even then advantage seems to be going to worm maybe the fact DD can overload it's dps could win the day in second scenario
Daredevil has 300 dps and 90% webs
Worm has about 300 dps and room for five drones.
300 dps, even against drones with around 2k ehp is going to melt them when they're webbed. |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
63
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Posted - 2014.11.05 14:50:38 -
[15] - Quote
Damen Apol wrote:Waffle Nips wrote:good suggestion I'm going to play devils advocate please counter if you feel i am wrong.
this was my thought but the worm gets same dps and more effective hitpoints. which I feel gives advantage to the worm because it will be doing full dps while the DD closes also worm will have unbonused web on dd prolonging the closing time. I don't see how a dd wins unless it lands on top. or worm warps into it and even then advantage seems to be going to worm maybe the fact DD can overload it's dps could win the day in second scenario Daredevil has 300 dps and 90% webs Worm has about 300 dps and room for five drones. 300 dps, even against drones with around 2k ehp is going to melt them when they're webbed.
DD doesn't have enough tank. You can web 1 drone at a time, meanwhile you're eating dps from the other drone and missiles/rockets. Before you burn thru those 5 bonused drones daredevil's going to be blapped. If by some astral coincidende it does not, you still have to eat thruh the worm's massive tank if buffer, and can pretty much be permatanked by active tank pimp fits, untill it run out of cap boosters, which is gonna happen way after the DD's explosion.
Really, the best thing you can do is simply load void, overheat web the worm and try blapping it faster than it can blap you. Kind of a coin toss there, if his drones miss a bit and he's not uber tanked, might have a chance.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
504
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Posted - 2014.11.05 16:54:07 -
[16] - Quote
Don't take the fight.
If you jam the drones, he can just abandon them and launch another flight.
Damps on the Worm will only damp the Worm. If his drones are already out, then they will just aggress you regardless of how much you have damped the worm. Any good drone boat pilot will already have drones out before you warp in.
Any good Worm pilot is going to be kite fit most likely. If you try to fight him in a brawler fit, you will most likely lose. |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
277
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Posted - 2014.11.05 18:48:12 -
[17] - Quote
People who try to get fights in Worms are people who will most likely have links and drugs running.
Deny them their fun. All they're after is cheap kills.
Wom is such a stupidly good ship now, there just is no other frig that can kill it.
pew pew
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Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.05 18:50:10 -
[18] - Quote
Domino Vyse wrote:A kiting ship with two webs for both drones.
Hookbill?
this is a really good out of the box idea i like it. good suggestions! |
Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.05 18:54:24 -
[19] - Quote
Damen Apol wrote:Waffle Nips wrote:good suggestion I'm going to play devils advocate please counter if you feel i am wrong.
this was my thought but the worm gets same dps and more effective hitpoints. which I feel gives advantage to the worm because it will be doing full dps while the DD closes also worm will have unbonused web on dd prolonging the closing time. I don't see how a dd wins unless it lands on top. or worm warps into it and even then advantage seems to be going to worm maybe the fact DD can overload it's dps could win the day in second scenario Daredevil has 300 dps and 90% webs Worm has about 300 dps and room for five drones. 300 dps, even against drones with around 2k ehp is going to melt them when they're webbed.
ah i see the strategy you're saying the dps is high enough it can actually kill the drones despite their huge tanks and has enough tank itself to survive long enough to kill them off...
i like this strategy I will try this. along with the hookbill idea |
Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.05 18:57:49 -
[20] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:Damen Apol wrote:Waffle Nips wrote:good suggestion I'm going to play devils advocate please counter if you feel i am wrong.
this was my thought but the worm gets same dps and more effective hitpoints. which I feel gives advantage to the worm because it will be doing full dps while the DD closes also worm will have unbonused web on dd prolonging the closing time. I don't see how a dd wins unless it lands on top. or worm warps into it and even then advantage seems to be going to worm maybe the fact DD can overload it's dps could win the day in second scenario Daredevil has 300 dps and 90% webs Worm has about 300 dps and room for five drones. 300 dps, even against drones with around 2k ehp is going to melt them when they're webbed. DD normally doesn't have enough tank. You can web 1 drone at a time, meanwhile you're eating dps from the other drone and missiles/rockets. Before you burn thru those 5 bonused drones daredevil's going to be blapped. If by some astral coincidende it does not, you still have to eat thruh the worm's massive tank if buffer, and can pretty much be permatanked by active tank pimp fits, untill it run out of cap boosters, which is gonna happen way after the DD's explosion, while being plinked by rockets or missiles. At this point, the DD's is likely going to be out of cap and out of paste in his AAR. Blap. Really, the best thing you can do is simply load void, overheat web the worm and try blapping it faster than it can blap you. Kind of a coin toss there, if his drones miss a bit and he's not uber tanked, might have a chance. The only DD i could see engaging a worm comfortably (except pimp active rep) would be 200mm fed navy plate, force field array, mag field stab, ANP II, coreli c AB, fed navy web, scram, blasters, trimarks. Has a bit less EHP than your standard worm but deals 360ish dps. But here we talking semi pimp fit vs normal worm fit. @ op. Dual damp hookbill works great (gonna take ages to kill him tho), but you need to get a lock on him (and damps running) before he deploys drones. Garmur would be easy mode. If you're in the links and snakes crew, anything kitey will outrun his drones comfortably
this was sort of my thoughts on why dd would lose or at best have small chance at winning takes way too long to blast through those bonused drones.i like the kity idea and the damp hookbill idea I almost feel the dual web to put on drones is better than damp idea. Cause you can just keep webbing the drones off of you. |
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1160
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Posted - 2014.11.05 19:14:15 -
[21] - Quote
Waffle Nips wrote:this was sort of my thoughts on why dd would lose or at best have small chance at winning takes way too long to blast through those bonused drones.i like the kity idea and the damp hookbill idea I almost feel the dual web to put on drones is better than damp idea. Cause you can just keep webbing the drones off of you.
Drones are very easy to jam and the worm has the courtesy of only having 2 of them, Jammed drones sit at 0m/s and need to be told to attack again even if they get unjammed. Coupled with the fact that the worm pilot will not be able to see when his drones are jammed/unjammed it should lead to some confusion.
I will leave you to ponder ships and fits. |
Shelom Severasse
Rent Is DUE TODAY Relentlessly Reclaiming
24
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Posted - 2014.11.06 02:57:08 -
[22] - Quote
i feel that a kiting ship would best counter a worm. i would say a slicer would work well, but it is too cap hungry and wont last long enough to kill its target.
i havent tried it, but i think a tanked kiting condor, (not that td no tank bull ****) with t2 precision missiles, would be enough to chip away at the drones while being cap stable. once all enemy drones are dead or in the targets drone bay, you just slowly plink down his shields.
you could try the same thing with a shield buffer + beam fit executioner, the dps tends to be lower but you are much faster and agile
it may be possible to brawl the worm with an incursus, you may need exiles though. idt dual rep would work as you would need a web to keep him in void range.
dual tanked breacher would probably be able to do some damage as well, but it would be wise to have blue pills.
as far as navy or pirate frigs go, i think a kiting garmur, maybe a brawl succubus with a neut, comet/dd could all do the trick. as far as actual fits go, you should tailor them to how you want to kill the worm (i.e. lock it down with ecm to take away its rockets, use neuts to turn its tackle off, neuts AND ecm hue hue hue, etc.) |
Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.06 03:36:56 -
[23] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Waffle Nips wrote:this was sort of my thoughts on why dd would lose or at best have small chance at winning takes way too long to blast through those bonused drones.i like the kity idea and the damp hookbill idea I almost feel the dual web to put on drones is better than damp idea. Cause you can just keep webbing the drones off of you. Drones are very easy to jam and the worm has the courtesy of only having 2 of them, Jammed drones sit at 0m/s and need to be told to attack again even if they get unjammed. Coupled with the fact that the worm pilot will not be able to see when his drones are jammed/unjammed it should lead to some confusion. I will leave you to ponder ships and fits. crosi i like this and i think i stated perhaps dramiel with jam donres and once jammer or comet perhaps i think this would be really fun to try and if the jams are landing it would just be funny to ponder the worm pilot trying to figure out why he is doing **** dmg |
Waffle Nips
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.11.06 03:40:26 -
[24] - Quote
Shelom Severasse wrote:i feel that a kiting ship would best counter a worm. i would say a slicer would work well, but it is too cap hungry and wont last long enough to kill its target.
i havent tried it, but i think a tanked kiting condor, (not that td no tank bull ****) with t2 precision missiles, would be enough to chip away at the drones while being cap stable. once all enemy drones are dead or in the targets drone bay, you just slowly plink down his shields.
you could try the same thing with a shield buffer + beam fit executioner, the dps tends to be lower but you are much faster and agile
it may be possible to brawl the worm with an incursus, you may need exiles though. idt dual rep would work as you would need a web to keep him in void range.
dual tanked breacher would probably be able to do some damage as well, but it would be wise to have blue pills.
as far as navy or pirate frigs go, i think a kiting garmur, maybe a brawl succubus with a neut, comet/dd could all do the trick. as far as actual fits go, you should tailor them to how you want to kill the worm (i.e. lock it down with ecm to take away its rockets, use neuts to turn its tackle off, neuts AND ecm hue hue hue, etc.)
i think kiting ships are good counter as well but i'm starting to really lean towards the dual jammers or web to attack the drones... also great suggestions on the ship fits i think breacher shows promise and succubus has the right dmg profile but now sure if it could survive. |
Domino Vyse
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
32
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Posted - 2014.11.06 07:37:56 -
[25] - Quote
Good luck with the dual web hookbill, let me know how it goes. Ive been planning to try it myself, just havent found the right situation. |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
104
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Posted - 2014.11.10 13:26:44 -
[26] - Quote
anything that can out run the drones and missiles will solo a worm no matter how it's fitted |
Shelom Severasse
Rent Is DUE TODAY Relentlessly Reclaiming
24
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:06:08 -
[27] - Quote
Waffle Nips wrote:Shelom Severasse wrote:i feel that a kiting ship would best counter a worm. i would say a slicer would work well, but it is too cap hungry and wont last long enough to kill its target.
i havent tried it, but i think a tanked kiting condor, (not that td no tank bull ****) with t2 precision missiles, would be enough to chip away at the drones while being cap stable. once all enemy drones are dead or in the targets drone bay, you just slowly plink down his shields.
you could try the same thing with a shield buffer + beam fit executioner, the dps tends to be lower but you are much faster and agile
it may be possible to brawl the worm with an incursus, you may need exiles though. idt dual rep would work as you would need a web to keep him in void range.
dual tanked breacher would probably be able to do some damage as well, but it would be wise to have blue pills.
as far as navy or pirate frigs go, i think a kiting garmur, maybe a brawl succubus with a neut, comet/dd could all do the trick. as far as actual fits go, you should tailor them to how you want to kill the worm (i.e. lock it down with ecm to take away its rockets, use neuts to turn its tackle off, neuts AND ecm hue hue hue, etc.) i think kiting ships are good counter as well but i'm starting to really lean towards the dual jammers or web to attack the drones... also great suggestions on the ship fits i think breacher shows promise and succubus has the right dmg profile but now sure if it could survive. succubus gets that nifty ab speed bonus, if the worm is brawl fit (web + scram) and youre losing, just o/h your mids and pull range and warp out. if he is kite fit with light missiles, you should have either more or comparable dps, in which case his applied dps with missiles will be lower as youll be zipping around at 2km/s with no sig bloom. of course you have to catch him. not sure if an ASB or shield extender would be better tank against a worm though. im inclined to say ASB cuz blue pill + crystals and the succubus has a good amount of innate shield hp |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
875
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Posted - 2014.11.10 20:39:49 -
[28] - Quote
I find this thread entertaining in that once upon a time, it was the Dramiel that everyone was rabble-rousing over.
And they were right.
tbh, I see far fewer worms floating around in space than in the Age of Angels.
The suggestion of a Daredevil seems sound. Its speed and web bonuses should allow it to catch and apply its dps.
"Remember remember the 4th of November!"
Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online.
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Plato Forko
Forko Nanorobotics
100
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Posted - 2014.11.10 22:07:18 -
[29] - Quote
most of these ideas would get rocked by a worm. kite ships will die if the worm decides to stop, because then your ship will stop as well, and the drones will eat you before you even realize that you're stopped. if you intend to outrun the drones by orbiting, you're limited to fragile ships with light missiles, and it still won't be as fast as you need it to be without links or overheating.
so after eliminating fast frigs, what are we left with, daredevil? here's the problem with that:
1) the worm can potentially do any type of damage while the DD is limited to kinetic/thermal. 2) Worms start out with a 4% resistance buff per level, so the odds are good that it can tank a DD for longer than a DD can survive being hit in its resist hole. Even with Warrior drones, each drone can potentially do over 350 damage per volley, so two of them are hitting you with 700 damage every four seconds.
Basically, you're taking a major risk with the odds against you if you're trying to engage a Worm in a DD. The more DPS you try to shoehorn onto the DD, the less tank you'll have, so diminishing returns will be hit pretty quick.
Let's not even get started on the dual MASB Breacher. The resist profile is garbage, and the Worm will breeze right through both reppers going overheated with Blue Pill (I have the lossmail to prove it) if the pilot is smart enough to deploy Acolytes or Hobgoblins.
Jamming them might work, but it would be pretty difficult to keep your cool and wait for your ship to lock each drone (sloooow) while they're overwhelming you with insane volleys. I don't think I would choose to rely on this.
I'm going to say there is no single counter to the Worm in a novice simply because the average resists are not good enough. It doesn't matter how much EHP you have or how much DPS you can tank on average/on paper if the Worm can hit you right in your biggest resist hole with drones that can hit you with more than the equivalent of an artillery volley ever four seconds.
There's nothin' like skating away from a fight with the hull on fire, some mods burned out and a cargohold full of loot.
See my terribad blog for stories.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1163
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Posted - 2014.11.10 23:29:09 -
[30] - Quote
Plato Forko wrote:kite ships will die if the worm decides to stop, because then your ship will stop as well, and the drones will eat you before you even realize that you're stopped. if you intend to outrun the drones by orbiting, you're limited to fragile ships with light missiles, and it still won't be as fast as you need it to be without links or overheating.
Jamming them might work, but it would be pretty difficult to keep your cool and wait for your ship to lock each drone (sloooow) while they're overwhelming you with insane volleys. I don't think I would choose to rely on this.
lol. |
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