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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14076
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:49:05 -
[301] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:James Baboli wrote:He did specify thorax, and lets not quible. I will agree that because of how the two ships are most often set up (pretty straight DPS and tank, with mostly just DPS, tackle and tank, no fancy stuff) that the brutix will usually murder the thorax. Oh, I read Deimos.. The Thorax is a complete different story and will die in scram range immediately. But let's not talk Thorax in a battleship thread, shall we?
Argument was the battlecruisers are outmatched by t1 cruisers. Thats simply not true.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
505
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:11:29 -
[302] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:elitatwo wrote:James Baboli wrote:He did specify thorax, and lets not quible. I will agree that because of how the two ships are most often set up (pretty straight DPS and tank, with mostly just DPS, tackle and tank, no fancy stuff) that the brutix will usually murder the thorax. Oh, I read Deimos.. The Thorax is a complete different story and will die in scram range immediately. But let's not talk Thorax in a battleship thread, shall we? Argument was the battlecruisers are outmatched by t1 cruisers. Thats simply not true.
In that case, I agree.
The thing that makes cruisers so strong is good firepower with very good mobility and kiting is the current sexy style which leaves them behind.
Do you think it would breake EVE if battleships got better sensors to get a quicker target lock on things?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1744
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:21:27 -
[303] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Argument was the battlecruisers are outmatched by t1 cruisers. Thats simply not true.
Some are, some aren't. A lot aren't worth the increased build cost relative to cruisers when you add up their down sides such as significantly lower mobility as well. You picked one of the currently performing BC's to base off. Which of course creates a biased view point. CCP have metrics and have outright said in one of the recent threads that BC's as well as BS are not performing as well in the overall meta as they want them to be. But that they have been balancing inside each class first to make sure the classes are as equal as possible, then they will look at the between class balance more. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4429
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:22:26 -
[304] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:...
Do you think it would breake EVE if battleships got better sensors to get a quicker target lock on things? Give them non-specific firing ability, that blankets an area in damage.
The smaller the area, the higher the concentration of damage.
Control for this would be manual, and up to the pilot to coordinate with ship movements. Small ships, while possibly more vulnerable to being affected by this level of damage, would also be the easiest to avoid it entirely.
Right now we have enormous ships with ridiculously scaled up weapons, that operate otherwise exactly the same as their counterparts do on a frigate.
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Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:27:40 -
[305] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:[quote=baltec1]
The 1053dps Brutix will do something in the range of 200dps against the resistance of a Deimos, which in return can tank that Brutix with one rep and kill it. ehm no. You cant tank 200 dps after resistances with one rep. |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
206
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:39:06 -
[306] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:elitatwo wrote:...
Do you think it would breake EVE if battleships got better sensors to get a quicker target lock on things? Give them non-specific firing ability, that blankets an area in damage. The smaller the area, the higher the concentration of damage. Control for this would be manual, and up to the pilot to coordinate with ship movements. Small ships, while possibly more vulnerable to being affected by this level of damage, would also be the easiest to avoid it entirely. Right now we have enormous ships with ridiculously scaled up weapons, that operate otherwise exactly the same as their counterparts do on a frigate.
No more AOE damage please. It's scales extremely quickly and is difficult to balance. Smart bombs aren't too bad because they require a great deal of skill and specialization to make work, but bombs are on the cusp. |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
240
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:48:02 -
[307] - Quote
How about making bombs targetable...and almost instalockable. Let BS defend themselves using their own guns.
I'm somewhat reminded of the way ordnance was constantly being intercepted in B5. |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
206
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Posted - 2014.12.03 23:11:14 -
[308] - Quote
Aplysia Vejun wrote:elitatwo wrote:[quote=baltec1]
The 1053dps Brutix will do something in the range of 200dps against the resistance of a Deimos, which in return can tank that Brutix with one rep and kill it. ehm no. You cant tank 200 dps after resistances with one rep.
Most brutixes aren't doing that much DPS now anyhow. Hull tanked the generally have in the 6-700 range, any higher than that and they start losing a lot of buffer quickly. Dual web brutixes can fit a medium neut, but a deimos can still comfortably tank it's dps with one rep running and an occasional pulse from the second without having to worry about it's cap booster being strained. Small neut MMJD brutix fits fair a little worse but either one will go down to a competent deimos pilot.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
505
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Posted - 2014.12.03 23:19:54 -
[309] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:Most brutixes aren't doing that much DPS now anyhow. Hull tanked the generally have in the 6-700 range, any higher than that and they start losing a lot of buffer quickly. Dual web brutixes can fit a medium neut, but a deimos can still comfortably tank it's dps with one rep running and an occasional pulse from the second without having to worry about it's cap booster being strained. Small neut MMJD brutix fits fair a little worse but either one will go down to a competent deimos pilot.
Oh. My excuse is that I didn't make a rail-kiting Brutix fit yet.
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4429
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Posted - 2014.12.03 23:20:56 -
[310] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:No more AOE damage please. It's scales extremely quickly and is difficult to balance. Smart bombs aren't too bad because they require a great deal of skill and specialization to make work, but bombs are on the cusp.
SFM Hobb3s wrote:How about making bombs targetable...and almost instalockable. Let BS defend themselves using their own guns.
I'm somewhat reminded of the way ordnance was constantly being intercepted in B5. Actually, I am not suggesting bombs so much as a shotgun-like spray effect. A bomb's damage is far more concentrated by comparison, while this would be unlikely to do comparable significant damage without the target sitting downrange quite a while.
This would almost be analogous to damage over time effects, while a bomb is all at once to anything in range.
This is basically shelling by artillery. I believe it only becomes notably effective when several ships stack the effects.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14081
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Posted - 2014.12.03 23:28:45 -
[311] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:baltec1 wrote: Argument was the battlecruisers are outmatched by t1 cruisers. Thats simply not true.
Some are, some aren't. A lot aren't worth the increased build cost relative to cruisers when you add up their down sides such as significantly lower mobility as well. You picked one of the currently performing BC's to base off. Which of course creates a biased view point. CCP have metrics and have outright said in one of the recent threads that BC's as well as BS are not performing as well in the overall meta as they want them to be. But that they have been balancing inside each class first to make sure the classes are as equal as possible, then they will look at the between class balance more.
People not using them does not mean they are underpowered. People in games will always follow the FOTM rather than use a wide range of ships. The rook for example is a great ship that sees very little use because people just dont know about it because they never fly anything outside of the current FOTM.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
505
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Posted - 2014.12.03 23:47:00 -
[312] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:People not using them does not mean they are underpowered. People in games will always follow the FOTM rather than use a wide range of ships. The rook for example is a great ship that sees very little use because people just dont know about it because they never fly anything outside of the current FOTM.
So nerf people
You didn't answer my question yet. I am curious what you think?
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14081
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Posted - 2014.12.03 23:58:47 -
[313] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:People not using them does not mean they are underpowered. People in games will always follow the FOTM rather than use a wide range of ships. The rook for example is a great ship that sees very little use because people just dont know about it because they never fly anything outside of the current FOTM. So nerf people You didn't answer my question yet. I am curious what you think?
I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
505
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:02:37 -
[314] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:-snip- I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway.
Interesting!
That would imply that you have support and are on the "giving" end of things, I would be curious to know that your stance would be from the "recieving" end?
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
206
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:10:58 -
[315] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:-snip- I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway. Interesting! That would imply that you have support and are on the "giving" end of things, I would be curious to know that your stance would be from the "recieving" end?
WTF? lol
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14081
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:13:11 -
[316] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:-snip- I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway. Interesting! That would imply that you have support and are on the "giving" end of things, I would be curious to know that your stance would be from the "recieving" end?
When you are the only battleship in a frigate fleet and you have my name next to it things tend to pick you out.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14081
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:18:00 -
[317] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:-snip- I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway. Interesting! That would imply that you have support and are on the "giving" end of things, I would be curious to know that your stance would be from the "recieving" end? WTF? lol
Calm your dirty mind!
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
505
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:25:15 -
[318] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:-snip-
WTF? lol
you...
What I meant was, when you have a fleet and your battleships just adds firepower and in the other case the battleships jumps into a camp of small ships - eeek..
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
333
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:25:35 -
[319] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:-snip- I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway. Interesting! That would imply that you have support and are on the "giving" end of things, I would be curious to know that your stance would be from the "recieving" end? WTF? lol Calm your dirty mind! -gets the ceremonial pants of jimmy rustling- Yep, its gonna be one of *those* threads for a post or two.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
505
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:31:21 -
[320] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:elitatwo wrote:baltec1 wrote:-snip- I run off the rule of if your target dies before you can lock it then your gang didn't need your firepower anyway. Interesting! That would imply that you have support and are on the "giving" end of things, I would be curious to know that your stance would be from the "recieving" end? WTF? lol Calm your dirty mind! -gets the ceremonial pants of jimmy rustling- Yep, its gonna be one of *those* threads for a post or two.
Hey we made it 16 pages without "incidents"
Should we give up hope for ever getting a "blue" opinion in here?
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
333
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:34:17 -
[321] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Hey we made it 16 pages without "incidents" Should we give up hope for ever getting a "blue" opinion in here? I've been told by a few members of CSM that they would make sure to point it out to those blue ribbon folks, but so far neither set has commented.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
505
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:40:32 -
[322] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:I've been told by a few members of CSM that they would make sure to point it out to those blue ribbon folks, but so far neither set has commented.
Maybe you could poke that member, to grace us with her / his presents here?
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
333
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Posted - 2014.12.04 00:49:21 -
[323] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:James Baboli wrote:I've been told by a few members of CSM that they would make sure to point it out to those blue ribbon folks, but so far neither set has commented. Maybe you could poke that member, to grace us with her / his presents here? Next time I see that person, I will. poking members this close to rustled jimmies just sounds wrong.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14081
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Posted - 2014.12.04 01:06:11 -
[324] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:elitatwo wrote:James Baboli wrote:I've been told by a few members of CSM that they would make sure to point it out to those blue ribbon folks, but so far neither set has commented. Maybe you could poke that member, to grace us with her / his presents here? Next time I see that person, I will. poking members this close to rustled jimmies just sounds wrong.
Would now be a good time to talk about the thrust potential of cbcs?
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
344
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Posted - 2014.12.04 01:10:47 -
[325] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:James Baboli wrote:elitatwo wrote:James Baboli wrote:I've been told by a few members of CSM that they would make sure to point it out to those blue ribbon folks, but so far neither set has commented. Maybe you could poke that member, to grace us with her / his presents here? Next time I see that person, I will. poking members this close to rustled jimmies just sounds wrong. Would now be a good time to talk about the thrust potential of cbcs? I'd like the acronym expanded slowly before we go anywhere else with that.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
344
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Posted - 2014.12.05 10:53:32 -
[326] - Quote
Posting navy battleships when I wake up.
Still hoping for any feedback on the numbers in the spreadsheet, or even confirmation anyone has read it.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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zus
evefinity
24
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Posted - 2014.12.06 23:14:01 -
[327] - Quote
I Concur |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2014.12.07 04:12:36 -
[328] - Quote
It's time.
Did anyone else see Hero vs PL in HED-GP? PL brought petes and 5-6 wings of bombers, while hero brough Domis, bombers, ishtars, and a massive ewar fleet. Care to guess how well the domis and ewar fared against the slippery petes?
60 bombers in one system and the battleships can't even shoot back against the tengus. They didn't even bother to bring logi.
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
211
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Posted - 2014.12.07 20:34:57 -
[329] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Posting navy battleships when I wake up.
Still hoping for any feedback on the numbers in the spreadsheet, or even confirmation anyone has read it.
I'm looking over it now and I'll post feedback soon, you've made a lot of changes and I'll need to think about them for a bit. |
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
211
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Posted - 2014.12.07 21:19:48 -
[330] - Quote
OK, so far I've looked at a few fits with amarr ships and it seems like the most important changes that you've made are those to CPU and powergrid.
The apoc gaining CPU pushes it into a range where it's substantially less dependent on faction hardeners for a fleet fit, and could fit a 100mn AB in addition to a MJD using a few faction hardeners on a megapulse setup.
It also puts it pretty close to the territory where you'd be able to do a double plate, double EANM, MWD pulse fit and be able to run a large cap booster, which would be somewhat more suitable for small gang work. You'd have to use meta tackle, and a meta damage control, but it would still be doable, though you really wouldn't have enough CPU to include tracking computers instead of tackle. Alternatively it would be possible to fit sebos and a T2 damage control.
Tach fits would be at the edge of possibility for a few pve fits, but would require substantial fitting rigs, and the cap would be extremely strained if you tried to run anything other than the tachs. Moreover, given the lack of a damage bonus its performance would still be sub-par and it probably wouldn't be worth using.
The baddon gains the most, I feel, from your proposed changes on the amarr hulls. The similar slot layout to the apoc but higher overall fittings would let you fit some edge case tach builds that might be useful in pve, though in pvp, I think that the use of fitting mods and the high cap requirements would deter their use.
Overall the other builds would be similar to the apoc, just slightly easier to fit, allowing a player choose tracking computers and MWDs or MJDs more easily than the apoc, though at the cost of shorter range.
The geddon would be able to fit a full rack of meta 4 neuts, a cap booster and a prop mod without using a fitting mod, which would be nice, and would certainly help in some situations. Other than that, I don't think that it would be changed too heavily. |
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