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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Niskin
League of the Lost
52
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Posted - 2014.11.08 14:34:48 -
[31] - Quote
Alice Johansen wrote:I like the bookmarks in space. However I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that compass thingy. It only tells me, "there is lots of stuff in space around you". It doesn't help me find the direction of a site quicker, because I can't distinguish them on the compass. E.g. if I ranged a ship via d-scan and want to check with a small angle scan if the ship is in a certain anomaly I still have to turn my camera like a mad man to find the direction of the anom, because I don't know which one of the two dozen green blobs on the compass is the anom I am looking for.
OK, it looks fancy, but how do you actually USE it for anything?
That's a fair question. The best way I can explain it is that when looking for something in space you have to cover 360 degrees in two directions, left/right and up/down. The addition of the compass just simplified the left/right part, leaving up/down as the part you still have to do. I wish I could mouse over a compass mark and see what it is, maybe we'll get that eventually. Until then you can at least see which direction any sites or bookmarks are, leaving you to look up and down for the actual item in space.
I know for years I have hated that items not in view collect along the edge of the screen, so you end up spinning in a weird cone pattern trying to get the one you want on screen. The compass simplifies that process, basically I'm no longer looking left/right at any part of space that doesn't have a compass mark. That's hundreds of degrees of searching removed, leaving you to check the indicated marks only.
ArmyOfMe wrote:There is no logical reason for a 2d compass when you have to navigate in 3d space. Just saying
Hit F10, switch to the Solar System Map. Systems are generally more 2d than they are 3d. Or at least the up/down axis has the least variation in general. So they gave us a compass on the most relevant axis, seems reasonable to me. |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
2445
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Posted - 2014.11.08 15:19:21 -
[32] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:CCP introduces feature A, includes toggle A.
CCP introduces feature B, includes toggle B.
....
CCP introduces feature X, includes toggle X.
and so forth. The UI and config menus are already tricky enough to work out, thorough customization controls would just make it more of a clustered nuisance. I bet if you turn off all the markers you won't even notice the compass given a week or two. This is indeed the crux of the matter. We want to offer the ability to customize features and sometimes when appropriate hide them but that is not always the best approach. Always including the option to wholesale turn off features makes it difficult for us to maintain a consistent experience. What if the experience is something which is not embraced by users due to the design being flawed (see Windows 8)? If we were to see a reaction similar to the reaction triggered by the removal of the start button in Windows 8 I'm sure we would re-evaluate.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @erlendur
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Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
410
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Posted - 2014.11.08 18:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:CCP introduces feature A, includes toggle A.
CCP introduces feature B, includes toggle B.
....
CCP introduces feature X, includes toggle X.
and so forth. The UI and config menus are already tricky enough to work out, thorough customization controls would just make it more of a clustered nuisance. I bet if you turn off all the markers you won't even notice the compass given a week or two. This is indeed the crux of the matter. We want to offer the ability to customize features and sometimes when appropriate hide them but that is not always the best approach. Always including the option to wholesale turn off features makes it difficult for us to maintain a consistent experience. What if the experience is something which is not embraced by users due to the design being flawed (see Windows 8)? If we were to see a reaction similar to the reaction triggered by the removal of the start button in Windows 8 I'm sure we would re-evaluate. See my sig. A more than 100 page thread about being able to turn off the nauseating camera swing on every gate jump apparently doesn't cut it with you. Do you need Incarna sized protests to respond to player critique?
Thanks for allowing some persisting customizability finally to the autoscan visuals via introduction of the compass. The blinking green and red diamonds in space and the circuit board wave in space was a real pita. I'm personally happy with the introduction of the compass and the ability to turn off a lot of that distraction through the compass interface. However some people are still upset by the compass motion. Try listening to them.
And please, put in an on/off button for the gate jump camera swing cut scene.
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13783
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Posted - 2014.11.08 20:04:33 -
[34] - Quote
How are people so easy to make vomit? Its as nauseating as a clock.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
34
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:10:34 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:CCP introduces feature A, includes toggle A.
CCP introduces feature B, includes toggle B.
....
CCP introduces feature X, includes toggle X.
and so forth. The UI and config menus are already tricky enough to work out, thorough customization controls would just make it more of a clustered nuisance. I bet if you turn off all the markers you won't even notice the compass given a week or two. This is indeed the crux of the matter. We want to offer the ability to customize features and sometimes when appropriate hide them but that is not always the best approach. Always including the option to wholesale turn off features makes it difficult for us to maintain a consistent experience. What if the experience is something which is not embraced by users due to the design being flawed (see Windows 8)? If we were to see a reaction similar to the reaction triggered by the removal of the start button in Windows 8 I'm sure we would re-evaluate.
Just my opinion but being brazenly callous to customer's wishes is bad for business and maybe that's why Eve subs have dropped from 50k to 25k players on at a time. The internet has done some good, in that the dirty laundry of businesses (such as Burn Jita) clings forever now.
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
1221
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:17:51 -
[36] - Quote
If only it was possible to hide the blue bookmark light from the compass without removing the bookmark icons from space :(
Come play Crink, over 205 billion in prizes paid out already!
Join the channel 'crink' in game or visit crink.corelicorp.net to play.
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
50
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:19:31 -
[37] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:CCP introduces feature A, includes toggle A.
CCP introduces feature B, includes toggle B.
....
CCP introduces feature X, includes toggle X.
and so forth. The UI and config menus are already tricky enough to work out, thorough customization controls would just make it more of a clustered nuisance. I bet if you turn off all the markers you won't even notice the compass given a week or two. This is indeed the crux of the matter. We want to offer the ability to customize features and sometimes when appropriate hide them but that is not always the best approach. Always including the option to wholesale turn off features makes it difficult for us to maintain a consistent experience. And what if a consistently maintained feature causes a consistently bad user experience? The new brighter nebulas have become an even bigger PITA than the old ones already where. In many games, there is a gamma slider so players can "spoil" the "consistent" experience by fitting what they see to their eyesight (thus placing customer experience above art design). I would gladly give away some of EVE's dazzling beauty for just being able to see the interface without a need to turn around the camera AFTER. EACH. SYSTEM. JUMP. (as an example of placing art design above customer experience).
I'm glad you posted this as I've been looking forward to the new brighter nebulae, but I haven't noticed any difference. Do I have a bug?
I'm not being sarcastic but I've even been to verge vendor and the cauldron, overlooking the vapor sea and I've noticed **** all difference. I'm also on full graphical settings.
Can anyone else confirm that the nebula has changed, because I really like stuff like this.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13783
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:26:23 -
[38] - Quote
First you should look up just how badly you got it wrong on sub numbers just now.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Tavin Aikisen
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
322
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:50:15 -
[39] - Quote
Alice Johansen wrote:Niskin wrote:Just turn off the bookmarks and live with the extra few pixels of black around the edge. I like the bookmarks in space. However I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that compass thingy. It only tells me, "there is lots of stuff in space around you". It doesn't help me find the direction of a site quicker, because I can't distinguish them on the compass. E.g. if I ranged a ship via d-scan and want to check with a small angle scan if the ship is in a certain anomaly I still have to turn my camera like a mad man to find the direction of the anom, because I don't know which one of the two dozen green blobs on the compass is the anom I am looking for. OK, it looks fancy, but how do you actually USE it for anything?
Could not agree more. But of course if you say anything to contrary to the current popular option, you're apparently just a "self-entitled" player.
A 2D compass in a 3D area is USELESS. In some systems there are so many blips on the compass that the entire thing looks like a rainbow. It provides no information.
"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."
-Cold Wind
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13785
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Posted - 2014.11.08 21:59:02 -
[40] - Quote
Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Could not agree more. But of course if you say anything to contrary to the current popular option, you're apparently just a "self-entitled" player.
A 2D compass in a 3D area is USELESS. In some systems there are so many blips on the compass that the entire thing looks like a rainbow. It provides no information.
Thats because you are either not using it right or you want it to be useless. If the compass points down its behind you, it aint hard to figure it out.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1080
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Posted - 2014.11.09 02:34:52 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:CCP introduces feature A, includes toggle A.
CCP introduces feature B, includes toggle B.
....
CCP introduces feature X, includes toggle X.
and so forth. The UI and config menus are already tricky enough to work out, thorough customization controls would just make it more of a clustered nuisance. I bet if you turn off all the markers you won't even notice the compass given a week or two. This is indeed the crux of the matter. We want to offer the ability to customize features and sometimes when appropriate hide them but that is not always the best approach. Always including the option to wholesale turn off features makes it difficult for us to maintain a consistent experience. What if the experience is something which is not embraced by users due to the design being flawed (see Windows 8)? If we were to see a reaction similar to the reaction triggered by the removal of the start button in Windows 8 I'm sure we would re-evaluate.
Just to aid your point of view. At first the compass annoyed me, but now I think it's really well designed (even with indicators for whether I should move my view up or down to see a marker in space? That's amazing.)
TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~
Youtube ~ Join Us
My ship fits
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2014.11.09 03:25:27 -
[42] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tavin Aikisen wrote:
Could not agree more. But of course if you say anything to contrary to the current popular option, you're apparently just a "self-entitled" player.
A 2D compass in a 3D area is USELESS. In some systems there are so many blips on the compass that the entire thing looks like a rainbow. It provides no information.
Thats because you are either not using it right or you want it to be useless. If the compass points down its behind you, it aint hard to figure it out.
Please listen. There's no poles, so it doesn't matter. A green dot is a green dot, and the more of them, the less valuable the "compass" is. If you open the system map it doesn't conform to a top-down view of the way you're facing in space, either, so facing a certain direction with a compass before opening system map is useless, and being able to look at something far away in space is useless if you're trying to get there by using the compass. Furthermore, if it's something that shows up in your bookmarks or probe scanner, you can easily warp to it from there. The "compass" provides no useful information that improve anything in any way.
I'd like one person to post saying how the compass has improved their ability to locate anything.
baltec1 wrote:First you should look up just how badly you got it wrong on sub numbers just now.
On a whim, I relogged just to check the numbers of people currently playing. Yep, 25k, Exactly what I said. Not "join 50k other pilots", "join 25k other pilots". Thanks for your concern, though.
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13797
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Posted - 2014.11.09 03:34:35 -
[43] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote: Please listen. There's no poles, so it doesn't matter. A green dot is a green dot, and the more of them, the less valuable the "compass" is. If you open the system map it doesn't conform to a top-down view of the way you're facing in space, either, so facing a certain direction with a compass before opening system map is useless, and being able to look at something far away in space is useless if you're trying to get there by using the compass. Furthermore, if it's something that shows up in your bookmarks or probe scanner, you can easily warp to it from there. The "compass" provides no useful information that improve anything in any way.
I'd like one person to post saying how the compass has improved their ability to locate anything.
Locating anoms to warp to slightly faster to catch targets.
All thats coming across from posts such as yours is whining for the sake of whining.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13797
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Posted - 2014.11.09 03:35:52 -
[44] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:
On a whim, I relogged just to check the numbers of people currently playing. Yep, 25k, Exactly what I said. Not "join 50k other pilots", "join 25k other pilots". Thanks for your concern, though.
Thats not subs.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2014.11.09 03:48:28 -
[45] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:
On a whim, I relogged just to check the numbers of people currently playing. Yep, 25k, Exactly what I said. Not "join 50k other pilots", "join 25k other pilots". Thanks for your concern, though.
Thats not subs.
Quote:maybe that's why Eve subs have dropped from 50k to 25k playerson at a time.
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13797
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Posted - 2014.11.09 03:58:10 -
[46] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:baltec1 wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:
On a whim, I relogged just to check the numbers of people currently playing. Yep, 25k, Exactly what I said. Not "join 50k other pilots", "join 25k other pilots". Thanks for your concern, though.
Thats not subs. Quote:maybe that's why Eve subs have dropped from 50k to 25k playerson at a time.
42,421 users were online at one point in the last 24 hours.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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ScorpyX Neoris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.11.09 06:04:10 -
[47] - Quote
tl;dr
all new in-space signature is good (bookmarks win-win of course) compass is good BUT - I do not need it at all (practical purpose) so why i Must + Always to see flickering \ flashy element about which I dont care? and yes I fully understand how to use it - including the display of "above" and "below" states
as well as in the compass is often too much signatures - it blend and became not practical too (its like overview problem but in circle \ 10-20+ signature is overload practical purpose)
looks like problem is - it might look good and bad in different situation (also with different player tastes) so why not polish tool and add pop-up or hide options for "circle space compass"? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6773
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Posted - 2014.11.09 06:38:30 -
[48] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Also sending me personal insults via mails will not stop me from calling you out on your bullshit.
I don't get those mails much these days. But then, I'm not as aggravatingly dense as you are.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Erin Crawford
333
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Posted - 2014.11.09 07:07:29 -
[49] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:42,421 users were online at one point in the last 24 hours. ... That number isn't too bad actually. Question is; are those 42k USERS or ACCOUNTS that are logged in? |
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
1233
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Posted - 2014.11.09 07:50:19 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:CCP introduces feature A, includes toggle A.
CCP introduces feature B, includes toggle B.
....
CCP introduces feature X, includes toggle X.
and so forth. The UI and config menus are already tricky enough to work out, thorough customization controls would just make it more of a clustered nuisance. I bet if you turn off all the markers you won't even notice the compass given a week or two. This is indeed the crux of the matter. We want to offer the ability to customize features and sometimes when appropriate hide them but that is not always the best approach. Always including the option to wholesale turn off features makes it difficult for us to maintain a consistent experience. What if the experience is something which is not embraced by users due to the design being flawed (see Windows 8)? If we were to see a reaction similar to the reaction triggered by the removal of the start button in Windows 8 I'm sure we would re-evaluate.
Microsoft's thought process going into Windows 8 has been seriously concerning. I have windows 7 on both my computers, and there's a lot of functionality missing from windows xp, that tempts me to reinstall back to xp. |
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
188
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Posted - 2014.11.09 08:12:07 -
[51] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Also sending me personal insults via mails will not stop me from calling you out on your bullshit.
I don't get those mails much these days. But then, I'm not as aggravatingly dense as you are. Mr Epeen Says the densest person on the forums.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
43
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Posted - 2014.11.09 09:34:01 -
[52] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Also sending me personal insults via mails will not stop me from calling you out on your bullshit.
I don't get those mails much these days. But then, I'm not as aggravatingly dense as you are. Mr Epeen Says the densest person on the forums.
Everyone's giving the goon troll what he wants, derailment of thread.
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
505
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Posted - 2014.11.09 10:27:06 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:CCP introduces feature A, includes toggle A.
CCP introduces feature B, includes toggle B.
....
CCP introduces feature X, includes toggle X.
and so forth. The UI and config menus are already tricky enough to work out, thorough customization controls would just make it more of a clustered nuisance. I bet if you turn off all the markers you won't even notice the compass given a week or two. This is indeed the crux of the matter. We want to offer the ability to customize features and sometimes when appropriate hide them but that is not always the best approach. Always including the option to wholesale turn off features makes it difficult for us to maintain a consistent experience. What if the experience is something which is not embraced by users due to the design being flawed (see Windows 8)? If we were to see a reaction similar to the reaction triggered by the removal of the start button in Windows 8 I'm sure we would re-evaluate.
Backlash isn't the reason Windows 8 is an issue, it's the lack of adaptation. People are not willing to go over and in a subscription system it means people might stop playing if you change (or remove features) it too much.
The new UI isn't about reducing functionality and that's exactly what we want from a new UI. Currently it's about removing customization options and in the current reincarnation it's close to unusable with lots of wasted space which we could use to display information because "pretty", "military" and "futuristic". Being not able to see information because you want transpoarency in the windows means we are losing functionality. It doesn't mean people don't want the new graphical settings, it just means we don't want ot lose usability due to "pretty".
Just as a general question, when is the last time you've used software designed for military and espeically combat for an extended period of time and gone "THIS LOOKS SO DAMN PRETTY!"? The software is 95% of time built for a certain purpose with all the relevant information displayed in the least cluttered way with the least possible space wasted. Graphical flares are not needed to make pretty paddings, they're not used if they distract the user from the actual information. If you want to use "militaristic look" argument, the current TQ UI outside of the Neocom icons is way closer than what is currently online on SiSi.
Secondary plea: poke your web team to fix the forums closing connection, this is getting ridiculous with hacing to clear cache and cookies every single day just to get the forums working. |
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2014.11.09 10:34:13 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:We want to offer the ability to customize features and sometimes when appropriate hide them but that is not always the best approach. Always including the option to wholesale turn off features makes it difficult for us to maintain a consistent experience. I would like to think that a consistent experience can be maintained, and still satisfy those who don't particularly like the compass in its current state.
Ideally, the visibility for the compass markers should be separate from the sensor overlay.
I would like full transparency for the compass, but that's simply unreasonable for the moment. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13808
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Posted - 2014.11.09 11:26:36 -
[55] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Also sending me personal insults via mails will not stop me from calling you out on your bullshit.
I don't get those mails much these days. But then, I'm not as aggravatingly dense as you are. Mr Epeen Says the densest person on the forums. Everyone's giving the goon troll what he wants, derailment of thread.
This thread became worthless the moment people started trying to say it was causing people to want to vomit and tried to connect it to some made up numbers on concurrent players being down.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2014.11.09 11:47:17 -
[56] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:This thread became worthless the moment people started trying to say it was causing people to want to vomit and tried to connect it to some made up numbers on concurrent players being down. Amongst all the bullshit, there are still some good posts with valid points. I'd like to see the new UI improvements be discussed more, so I would recommend finding another thread if you can't be bothered contributing to the point. |
Tavin Aikisen
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
323
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Posted - 2014.11.09 12:09:03 -
[57] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:[quote=Tavin Aikisen] behind you, it aint hard to figure it out.
Behind me.... and still anywhere within 180 degrees "vertical" and mixed in with the saturation of radar blips that makes it impossible to distinguish anything useful.
"Behind you" means nothing in this sort of environment. The compass only directs you on one plane. There is still another that isn't represented.
"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."
-Cold Wind
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Wachutu
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.11.09 12:34:28 -
[58] - Quote
I find the compass good, thanks ccp |
Steve Wingyip
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.11.09 14:57:43 -
[59] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Doc Fury wrote:CCP has already stated that having options like this is a "cop-out".
After much reflection on this, I have determined that "cop-out" in Icelandic must mean: "too hard" I can confirm that this is wrong. Good. That means you should have no problem giving us the option to turn off your nausea-inducing camera-swinging jump animation right? Because "cop-out" isn't a valid or meaningful response or even a decent excuse when you've got a near-100 page thread going where people are just asking for options. That leaves difficulty or ego as the reason you won't do it, and you just basically stated it's not because it's too hard. You could always blame a lack of options due to everything being tied to the POS code.
Remember that the current jump animations have different load times. (Depending on distance) Where as previously they were all the same. Allowing a toggle means increasing the load times for those with the animation turned off. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
6087
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Posted - 2014.11.09 15:17:53 -
[60] - Quote
I dont see the point of this compass I use only the 3 D map of solar system when doing exploration, sometimes I dont even close it during the fight, I have to scan another place meantime, when managing the drones.
Recon makes them stronger
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