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Femintaki
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.26 10:58:00 -
[1]
My question is simple and I throw it open for debate:
"Should skills which are not trained to at least level 1 be included in a players skill count - given that they have no value to the player until trained to at least level 1?"
Fem
Quote: Do or do not - there is no try!
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Nande
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.26 11:15:00 -
[2]
Skill count is somewhat of an e-peen meter anyway, what could you prove by saying "I have more skills than you"?
It's total skillpoints and personal experience that matters :)
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Femintaki
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.26 11:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Femintaki on 26/08/2006 11:23:10
Originally by: Nande Skill count is somewhat of an e-peen meter anyway, what could you prove by saying "I have more skills than you"?
It's total skillpoints and personal experience that matters :)
I don't disagree, but there are people who collect skills and I am simply trying to understand when a skill is really considered trained? My view is that a skill is not truly trained until it is at level 1.
Skillpoints, total skills etc. mean little in the big picture - particulalry in a game where specialisation means you can be the best (equal best) in a relatively short time and then the only thing which will determine how you perform is personal skill and experience in your chosen field.
Fem
Quote: Do or do not - there is no try!
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Kyreax
Gallente Rising Sun Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.26 17:30:00 -
[4]
Well, here's my take:
AS far as COUNTING them for "skills trained", no they shouldn't. I assume you're referring to the two forum threads "unofficial rankings" by Dr. Caymus and the Big Deal's "Eve Skills Showroom".
BUT - they ARE technically downloaded to their pod-pilot brains, so they do actually have the skills in there, just not loaded. One of the highest ranked "skill collectors" on those lists has the highest count of "Level Zero" skills in the game..he didn't bother to train them past just jacking them into his head to get the skill for a few sp's.
The debate is sorta complex. I see why you brought it up for discussion. If you think about it though, it would take him all of a day to train all those level 0 skills to level 1. AND, the Big Deal Eve Skills Showroom has a ranking now for players with the highest level 0 skills.
Personally, I train everything up to level 1 as soon as I jack it in my head. For some reason, I'm irresponsibly worried of a glitch that if I get podkilled, they'll go away if they're not trained. |
Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.26 17:30:00 -
[5]
I'd say it should be trained to level 1.
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2006.08.26 20:30:00 -
[6]
Seeing as this debate relates most directly to myself and to Starfly, I suppose I should chime in.
I have no skills at level 0, they are all level 1 or higher. (I actually hold the record for the most level 1 skills at 133.) Starfly, my primary competition in the skill collecting race (and currently the leader) has, at last count, 55 skills at level 0. Some might say that because of this I could be in the lead.
While I agree that there's no point in having a level 0 skill, I simply must disagree that this discounts a person from being able to claim them as contributing to their skill count. The fact is, the hour or so of training it takes to get that skill to level 1 is absolutely nothing compared to the time it takes to train the prerequsites for most of those skills. In addition to the time investment, skill collecting is very expensive. Right now, a person with every skill trained could expect to have invested over 23 billion isk in skills alone (18 billion from the four Titan skills).
While I am strongly against level 0 skills, I must insist that they legitimately should be included in a player's skill count. ---
290 of 315 skills trained. |
Kyreax
Gallente Rising Sun Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.26 23:45:00 -
[7]
Tripoli's rather post makes a good point. It takes a lot to be able to train all those skills because of other skills trained for prerequisites. It also costs a bundle to buy all of those...and the qualified purchaser should get some sort of credit for just being able to jack it into his/her head.
"Total Skill Count" Sure, count it.
"Trained Skills" No. absolutely not. They're not trained.
Looks like a question of semantics. I do respect the fact Triploi took the extra minutes to train all of his to at least lvl 1, though.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.27 00:43:00 -
[8]
They should be included: it isn't as if it takes a long time to train them in the first place, so it isn't as if there's a big difference to begin with.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Captain Malcon
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Posted - 2006.08.27 11:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Captain Malcon on 27/08/2006 11:58:07 whats the point here ?? i got 80 skils or 150 soo what hehe the lvl 0 skills is now as it should be ! everything is working... if a person has the skill at level 0 he doesn't get the effect of the skill, he doesn't get the % effect to whatever the skill is... and yes i got some level 0s when I visit the schools for new skills i check all skill folder for skills i can get !... saves me alot of time to just kick the skill into my head and just leave their at level 0.... than if i get use for it later i got it ready for training ! I see NO problem here ! ... how can ppl be upset that I got a number of lvl 0 skills !?! they don't make me stronger ! they don't give me any advangedes over other players !! a lvl 0 gives nothing ! soo ones gets what he puts into it ! ) and for the keeping score of how many skils in skillbook now thats just ppl way way too bored
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Captain Malcon
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Posted - 2006.08.27 11:57:00 -
[10]
hehe so my vote is yes to main question
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.27 14:38:00 -
[11]
Cheap skills sure, things like traed skills, etc which you will always use are useful to train when you need to kill a few hours.
What I do the rest of the time. |
Serenity Steele
Rearden Steele Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.27 15:49:00 -
[12]
I'd vote yes to that one simply because it demonstrates that the combination of skills the pilot has trained have given them pre-requisities that other skill training combinations may not have.
Plus it's real handy when you 'quickly need a skill', to have them all pre-loaded in your skill list at level 0, without flying somewhere to buy them.
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Jalia Kovac
Placid Reborn Placid Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.27 16:09:00 -
[13]
I hate having holes in my skill list. I train every skill to at least level 1.
► ► Placid Reborn Headquarters ◄ ◄ |
Mrmuttley
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.08.27 21:53:00 -
[14]
If Starfly was prepared to put in 8 hours a day for a bit training his level 0 skills im sure all of them would be at level one very shortly. Although the skills are useless in the conventional sense they are there and as Tripoli has pointed out they have major prerequisites in some cases.
I personally have no level 0 skills as I am not a skill collector. I also suffer from the irrational fear that I will "forget" that I started training and have to go buy the skill book again.
My weakness for skills is one of buying books and training up for kit that i am unlikely to use anytime soon. For example i have had Caldari cruiser V for months now yet have not brought a T2 Caldari cruiser nor seem likely to anytime soon. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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