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Lister Dax
Intergalactic Trade and Harm
17
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Posted - 2014.11.23 21:08:26 -
[31] - Quote
What was the idea behind the huge manufacturing time reduction? |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
162
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Posted - 2014.11.25 03:30:14 -
[32] - Quote
Yeah I would agree, they could lengthen the manufacturing time on most items. Need to increase demand or limit supply somehow.
EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3702
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Posted - 2014.11.25 03:54:46 -
[33] - Quote
Aker Krane wrote:There is a "reckoning" coming in the T2 module/ammo/drone production market.
It has been pushed off awhile (probably until spring or so) with things like the consolidation going on in null sec and possibly with Thera if it does actually turn into some sort of market hub.
For now, the changes that Crius brought make it so you have to work twice as hard, to make half as much. There are still profits to be had, but good margins will be harder to find.
Eventually, the T2 module/ammo/drone market will look a lot like the T1 market. Overproduction on all fronts. And with refine rates in the 50% region... there will be a severe penalty for producing the "wrong thing".
What CCP should have done is to have double or tripled the production time on everything to make more room in the market for more manufacturers. Similar to what they did with T2 ship production.
But meh, they tend to do irrational things like this every now and again. I am sure they have their reasons--hell if I know what they are.
Overall, the changes in Crius, made less room for new manufacturing players, not more.
Colossal f**K-up by CCP in my book. But hey, adapt or die right?
T2 production remains too click intensive to get margins down to T1 levels. I still expect things to fall further, however, and have noticed much lower prices for bulk buy orders on popular modules.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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SJ Astralana
Syncore
74
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Posted - 2014.11.25 07:00:43 -
[34] - Quote
T2 production is as dead as Zed and Maynard. Zed's dead baby. Zed's dead. I would love just one T2 producer to step up and claim he makes 10bil a month logged in 10 minutes a day, because I'll be damned if I can find even a marginal case to deal with how hands on T2 production is. The margins are a reflection of how much work is involved but at the end of each week you make millions instead of billions.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
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Amseln deBrabant
Ochsenbruegger
14
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Posted - 2014.11.25 13:57:53 -
[35] - Quote
i make 1,5 bil/m, maybe a tad more, but not with 10 minutes a day^^ |
Niskin
League of the Lost
108
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Posted - 2014.11.25 16:30:09 -
[36] - Quote
I have a question about T2 ammo: Do you think there is a point where the price drop will spike demand?
The reason I ask is that for as long as I can remember I've only purchased T2 ammo for my PvP ships, due to the higher cost. For mission ships I stuck to T1 ammo. If T2 ammo gets cheap enough I could see using it in more situations, maybe even all situations. But I don't know how most others operate, so I can't say if I'd be part of a trend or just an anomaly.
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3736
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Posted - 2014.11.26 01:14:36 -
[37] - Quote
Niskin wrote:I have a question about T2 ammo: Do you think there is a point where the price drop will spike demand?
The reason I ask is that for as long as I can remember I've only purchased T2 ammo for my PvP ships, due to the higher cost. For mission ships I stuck to T1 ammo. If T2 ammo gets cheap enough I could see using it in more situations, maybe even all situations. But I don't know how most others operate, so I can't say if I'd be part of a trend or just an anomaly.
I don't think there's much price sensitivity to T2 ammo demand. It was already so cheap to begin with. Back when Void L was 900 isk per charge, a Megathron was firing around 4 million ISK worth of it per hour in POS bashes and maybe 1.5 million in missions. That's assuming neutron blasters (electrons use more but aren't commonly fitted; other weapons systems generally fire slower). If you can afford a Megathron, you can afford that, and the performance boost is significant.
The barrier to using tech 2 ammunition is skills, not ISK. Just fitting T2 large guns takes a month of training.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5313
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Posted - 2014.11.27 20:12:15 -
[38] - Quote
I would increase all production and research time by a factor of some 3-5. Right now there is absolutely no supply pressure and it completely kills the market.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
644
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Posted - 2014.11.30 17:10:50 -
[39] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:I would increase all production and research time by a factor of some 3-5. Right now there is absolutely no supply pressure and it completely kills the market. If base production times were brought back to sensible levels (as you suggest) then those production speed bonuses that have been added to various skills would actually be worth something. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
172
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Posted - 2014.12.02 20:28:13 -
[40] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:I would increase all production and research time by a factor of some 3-5. Right now there is absolutely no supply pressure and it completely kills the market.
I have noticed this big time. I was setting up manufacturing and found that with several common modules, I could reasonably meet jita market demand by myself. |
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HeXxploiT
Little Red X
66
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Posted - 2014.12.03 01:18:51 -
[41] - Quote
Some T2 ammo prices are starting to compete with the T1 variants. Pretty silly. |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
39
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Posted - 2014.12.03 10:09:55 -
[42] - Quote
From where I'm standing one of the bigger issues is that 1-run BPC invents into max run t2 variants.
In the past, making max run copies to create max run t2 copies was an actual time invenstment. I produced t2 drones a few years back for a while and I had 5 labslots devoted to copying non-stop just to meet my demand for 1500-run copies. Nowadays, you can just make a a few 50-run copies and have enough BPC material to keep your labslots inventing for weeks if not months.
Building stuff was never really the issues - it was getting the BPCs.
As an added "bonus" this change has also killed off the BPC market. There used to be demand for 10-run cruiser, battleship and barge copies, because they could be used for invention and making them yourselves was a considerable time investment and took up a valuable commodity: lab slots.
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Niskin
League of the Lost
124
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Posted - 2014.12.03 17:56:53 -
[43] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:Some T2 ammo prices are starting to compete with the T1 variants. Pretty silly.
That's why I asked about a potential change in T2 ammo demand once the price dropped substantially. If they cost the same I'm gonna use the T2 more often, at least until the demand brings prices back up.
It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
40
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Posted - 2014.12.04 07:47:25 -
[44] - Quote
The point was, that even when it was expensive, T2 ammo didn't cost enough to warrant not using it.
Ie, people that aren't shooting with t2 ammo are unlikely not doing so for monotary reasons, but more likely because they are not able to use t2 weapons. A price drop for t2 ammo will therefore not likely cause a spike in its usage. |
Eitak Utrigas
Hydraxis Industries
5
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Posted - 2014.12.04 13:29:25 -
[45] - Quote
The change to the research and build times may have contributed, but removing the slot requirement would have made a serious impact.
Prior to Cruis, most T2 manufacturers reuired the investment of a POS to make it feasible. That kept A LOT of players out of the market.
Its probably a combination of both but in essence CCP has allowed more guys to get into T2 Invention and has increased the rate at which some items can been produced at the same time.
Results are an obvious over supply and combine that with everyone throwing their toys out the pram and panic selling everything then we have a bad situation.
Profits will recover, but as there will be more competition you can probably kiss goodbye to some of the 200% margins on a number of mods. |
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