Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mehrune Khan
Viziam Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 22:18:58 -
[1] - Quote
I think we should be able to insure our impants just like we can insure our ships. I'm not asking for carebear EVE here. We will still die and lose our stuff, and in fact being able to mitigate our financial losses with insurance would make more people willing to take risks and enter low and null.
Please give this idea some consideration. Since the devs are looking at reworking the medical bay anyway, now might be a good time to give implants some extra thought too.
Thanks for your time. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2506
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 22:43:15 -
[2] - Quote
What insurance? Is it that thing for T1 ships?
No to more insurance, I'm all for complete removal of insurance though.
-
|
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
267
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 22:55:30 -
[3] - Quote
Skill/pirate hardwirings should probably be at risk just like any other mods?
Learning implants are just dreadful and need a proper looking at, not some band-aid like insurance.
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
475
|
Posted - 2014.11.09 23:04:32 -
[4] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Skill/pirate hardwirings should probably be at risk just like any other mods?
Learning implants are just dreadful and need a proper looking at, not some band-aid like insurance.
This.
I like that in bubble-prone space, everyone is honest - or really putting it on the line. None of this high grade snake crap in every other slicer pilots head.
Whilst it annoys me no end that I forgoe learning implants in null, honestly...gun to the head - I'd still keep it that way to keep the high grade crap out//forced to really risk it. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
443
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 00:12:30 -
[5] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:What insurance? Is it that thing for T1 ships?
No to more insurance, I'm all for complete removal of insurance though.
But ship insurance removes isk from the game. A ship or a station or a POS removes minerals and PI stuff when they explode, which is a good thing.
Implants remove isk and LP from the game, also a good thing.
An insurance for implants?
Pend Insurance Inc. says no and so do I.
signature
|
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
709
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 04:30:47 -
[6] - Quote
While your at it, make sure CCP can the light and does not remove medical clones like they are suggesting, futher increasing cost and decreasing their coverage. More isk lost, more SP lost since some might elect to keep it lower, SP lost when your ship goes boom (medical clone should cover a pod, ship blowing up should cost you isk and SP like a T3 even if you manage to escape; frigs triple the amount cause people are so cheap ) and most especially of all more whining how its costing too much to PVP...perfect world of risk adverse, see who the true hard core are |
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
1234
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 04:39:33 -
[7] - Quote
I'd be all for having UP TO +3 implants not lost on death. Anything else should carry the current risk of being lost. Pirate implants should only be utilized by those willing to foot the bill and be able to afford the full loss, same with something like +5s or even +4s heh... |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
42
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 09:02:14 -
[8] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:I think we should be able to insure our impants just like we can insure our ships. I'm not asking for carebear EVE here. We will still die and lose our stuff, and in fact being able to mitigate our financial losses with insurance would make more people willing to take risks and enter low and null.
Please give this idea some consideration. Since the devs are looking at reworking the medical bay anyway, now might be a good time to give implants some extra thought too.
Thanks for your time.
................................................................... No. Only risk what you can effort, we don-Št need more "money" back when you lose something.
-1 |
Anthar Thebess
798
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 09:27:33 -
[9] - Quote
NO, just more isk flowing into the system.
PHOEBE Retrospective
|
Mag's
the united
18155
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 09:35:26 -
[10] - Quote
I've always used implants, even for the years I spent in null. It's a choice and tbh I'm not sure I'd even use insurance if offered it. It would most likely not cover the cost anyway.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
|
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
228
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 14:36:24 -
[11] - Quote
Mag's wrote:I've always used implants, even for the years I spent in null. It's a choice and tbh I'm not sure I'd even use insurance if offered it. It would most likely not cover the cost anyway.
Pretty much this. I always fly with implants, unless I'm going into a massive 100+ pilot brawl with tidi, in which case having those skill hardwirings is going to make very little difference anyway. But in small gnags or solo, I absolutely fly with them because they can give me an advantage over a pilot not so equipped.
As my grandfather used to say, "You pays your money and you makes your choice." If you don't want to lose the implants, jump into a clean clone before you pvp.
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
|
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
741
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 15:18:20 -
[12] - Quote
What's insurance? Something for scrubs that can't afford new ships? |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
373
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 16:00:03 -
[13] - Quote
No... this would really end up implants being a must have for everything. |
Mehrune Khan
Viziam Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 17:04:16 -
[14] - Quote
Okay it seems everyone is against the idea of insurance. How about one of these possibilities, please chime in and let me know which one you like best:
1. Learning implants are removed, and we all get +5 to each attribute. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
2. Learning implants are removed, and we all get 15 more allocatable attribute points and a bonus neural remap. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
3. Learning implants are removed, and cortical stimulators are added for each attribute. Cortical stimulators provide a +1 to +5 bonus to an attribute, but only last two weeks and persist after you are podded. Cortical stimulators can be purchased for a fee from the medical bay. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
4. I'm a Debbie Downer and I like the current implant system with all it's drawbacks.
IMO I favor option 2, since it makes neural remaps more strategic and allows one or two attributes to reach 30 points - even more than we could get before. However we get fewer overall skill points than we could get before. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
741
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 17:07:05 -
[15] - Quote
Meditril wrote:No... this would really end up implants being a must have for everything. They already are in some cases. At least with the current system there is some risk involved in using them. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
741
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 17:10:04 -
[16] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:Okay it seems everyone is against the idea of insurance. How about one of these possibilities, please chime in and let me know which one you like best:
1. Learning implants are removed, and we all get +5 to each attribute. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
2. Learning implants are removed, and we all get 15 more allocatable attribute points and a bonus neural remap. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
3. Learning implants are removed, and cortical stimulators are added for each attribute. Cortical stimulators provide a +1 to +5 bonus to an attribute, but only last two weeks and persist after you are podded. Cortical stimulators can be purchased for a fee from the medical bay. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
4. I'm a Debbie Downer and I like the current implant system with all it's drawbacks.
IMO I favor option 2, since it makes neural remaps more strategic and allows one or two attributes to reach 30 points - even more than we could get before. However we get fewer overall skill points than we could get before. 1. This is just removing choice. This is bad.
2. This replaces one choice with a different, slightly less meaningful choice. This is also bad.
3. This isn't very different from the current system really. Although it might be a slightly larger ISK sink.
4. What drawbacks? You mean the fact that you have to make choices? Man, if making choices is getting you down you might be playing the wrong game. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
284
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 17:38:24 -
[17] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Mehrune Khan wrote:4. I'm a Debbie Downer and I like the current implant system with all it's drawbacks. 4. What drawbacks? You mean the fact that you have to make choices? Man, if making choices is getting you down you might be playing the wrong game. Given his post was focused on learning implants can we presume your reply is too?
If so I'm sorry but this is just bollocks. When one end of the risk/reward scale effectively stops people from playing the game something is flat out broken. The reward should never ever be 'Yes, you can play today.'
Fixed term learning boosters that persist through death seems to be perfectly sensible if there was the need to maintain the isk sink.
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
68
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 17:53:57 -
[18] - Quote
I had to think on this one a bit. At first, I was leaning towards supporting implant insurance, but then, as I rolled the idea around in my mind, a few questions came up.
First, how do you insure something that's inherently destroyed already? These are basically head-rigs.
Second, Insurance for ships is based on their building costs with little reguard for the market. Where to even start when applying this to implants?
These two thought lead me to not supporting insurance for implants.
-1 to Insurance for Head-Rigs.
--Gadget |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
742
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 18:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Mehrune Khan wrote:4. I'm a Debbie Downer and I like the current implant system with all it's drawbacks. 4. What drawbacks? You mean the fact that you have to make choices? Man, if making choices is getting you down you might be playing the wrong game. Given his post was focused on learning implants can we presume your reply is too? If so I'm sorry but this is just bollocks. When one end of the risk/reward scale effectively stops people from playing the game something is flat out broken. The reward should never ever be 'Yes, you can play today.' Fixed term learning boosters that persist through death seems to be perfectly sensible if there was the need to maintain the isk sink. If people choose to not take risks that is their own fault. Even if implants magically didn't get destroyed when you got podded the risk averse crowd would still be risk averse.
There is nothing stopping you from PVP'ing in a set of +5's or just not using learning implants at all. In fact jump clones offer a very nice set of "middle ground" choices here. So the idea that expensive implants somehow discourage people from participating in PVP is just bollocks. Those people would find some other reason to not PVP if implants suddenly disappeared. |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
232
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 18:13:53 -
[20] - Quote
Mehrune Khan wrote:Okay it seems everyone is against the idea of insurance. How about one of these possibilities, please chime in and let me know which one you like best:
1. Learning implants are removed, and we all get +5 to each attribute. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
2. Learning implants are removed, and we all get 15 more allocatable attribute points and a bonus neural remap. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
3. Learning implants are removed, and cortical stimulators are added for each attribute. Cortical stimulators provide a +1 to +5 bonus to an attribute, but only last two weeks and persist after you are podded. Cortical stimulators can be purchased for a fee from the medical bay. People who currently own learning implants are refunded a set amount of ISK for each implant. Hardwiring implants remain the same but now occupy slots 1-5.
4. I'm a Debbie Downer and I like the current implant system with all it's drawbacks.
IMO I favor option 2, since it makes neural remaps more strategic and allows one or two attributes to reach 30 points - even more than we could get before. However we get fewer overall skill points than we could get before.
Aside from option 4, none of your choices allows for the pirate implant sets which offer a bonus besides just the attribute one, and so are non-starters.
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
|
|
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
284
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 18:22:27 -
[21] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:If people choose to not take risks that is their own fault. Even if implants magically didn't get destroyed when you got podded the risk averse crowd would still be risk averse.
There is nothing stopping you from PVP'ing in a set of +5's or just not using learning implants at all. In fact jump clones offer a very nice set of "middle ground" choices here. So the idea that expensive implants somehow discourage people from participating in PVP is just bollocks. Those people would find some other reason to not PVP if implants suddenly disappeared. Its been established that 50-100m clones were stopping people from getting out there so I'm sorry but that's just not true.
The current system effectively punishes grunts out in null with already limited control over their skillqueus, people wanting to do complex T2 stuff we all rely on and actively pushes against the current get people doing indy in null thing.
In return it lets Joe Mission get Large Pulse Spec from IV to V in record time!
Its kinda hard to believe people still endlessly defend this with inane consequences/riskreward buzzwords, you know? I agree there is a section of people that will never PVP but **** em, they're therefore irrelevant. Its no reason to not fix things for the rest of us.
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:Aside from option 4, none of your choices allows for the pirate implant sets which offer a bonus besides just the attribute one, and so are non-starters. Unless this was taken into account in any change. You know, like it would be
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 18:30:03 -
[22] - Quote
Just buy your corpse back from who ever ganked you so you can retrieve your implants from it.
Hello, Wolf Incaelum of the Sebiestor Tribe, may your paths between the stars be plastered with gold and fame. I bet, you like that greeting a bit more. :-)
|
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
742
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 18:37:11 -
[23] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Its been established that 50-100m clones were stopping people from getting out there so I'm sorry but that's just not true.
The current system effectively punishes grunts out in null with already limited control over their skillqueus, people wanting to do complex T2 stuff we all rely on and actively pushes against the current get people doing indy in null thing.
In return it lets Joe Mission get Large Pulse Spec from IV to V in record time!
Its kinda hard to believe people still endlessly defend this with inane consequences/riskreward buzzwords, you know? I agree there is a section of people that will never PVP but **** em, they're therefore irrelevant. Its no reason to not fix things for the rest of us. Only for small ships. People with expensive clones were pushed to more expensive hulls, not out of PVP all together. And only because jumps clones don't let you mitigate clone cost. Implants had nothing to do with it. Thankfully this issue is being addressed in Rhea.
If your null corp is telling you what you have to train I feel sorry for you. Find a better corp. Joe Mission probably also has PVP clone in low or null somewhere that he uses to spend all that ISK from missions. If he doesn't then he one of the irrelevant non PVP people. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
284
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 18:55:05 -
[24] - Quote
High SP clone peeps were pushed into ships that had a lower chance of dying. That is not the same nor particularly desirable. And yes Joe Mission as someone who never PVPs is therefore irrelevant to the discussion really. Lets take this home from that point shall we?
The current implants system actively puts people who want to take risks at a disadvantage.
How does that fit into your vision of Eve? Cause tbh it feels pretty ridiculous within mine.
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
742
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 19:10:26 -
[25] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:High SP clone peeps were pushed into ships that had a lower chance of dying. That is not the same nor particularly desirable. And yes Joe Mission as someone who never PVPs is therefore irrelevant to the discussion really. Lets take this home from that point shall we? I agree. Med clones were an issue. It's good that they are being removed.
Ix Method wrote:The current implants system actively puts people who want to take risks at a disadvantage.
How does that fit into your vision of Eve? Cause tbh it feels pretty ridiculous within mine. How does it put them at a disadvantage? Yes they risk loosing their implants but those implants provide powerful benefits. Everything from increased training speed to massive changes to ship power, HP, and speed. You can choose to forgo the risk and use cheaper implants or no implants at all. If someone chooses to not use implants that is their choice. They will still eventually train into whatever ships they want just like the guy with a set of +4's in his head.
Pirate implants aside it just boils down to SP. Some people will have more than others as a result of their implant choices. I don't think this has ever been an issue in EVE. Large amounts of SP is not required have fun or participate in most activities. All fleets need scouts and guys in smaller support ships. I have far less SP than most toons my age and I don't feel this has ever held me back. |
Mehrune Khan
Viziam Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 19:22:59 -
[26] - Quote
Not everyone has access to jump clones - I hate grinding missions, myself. And I wouldn't mind being blown up and podded if I didn't have a full set of implants to lose. I can change out my ship and crapfit a frigate if I am going someplace dangerous - I can't pull out my implants and set them aside for later. Just saying that I'm one of those people you would see more of outside highsec if I didn't so much invested in my implants.
While I do think implants do need to be reworked so players are encouraged to take more risks - I just don't know what that answer should be. I'm just throwing out some possibilities. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
742
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 19:32:25 -
[27] - Quote
If you live in null you have access to jump clones. There is also Estel Arador Corp Services for people who live in empire.
I am not entirely opposed to replacing implants with temporary boosters. It would probably remove more ISK from the game than the current system since more people would use them. However it would add another "log in once every X days to keep training at full speed" thing when just got the other one, the 24 skill queue cap, removed. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
285
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 19:48:56 -
[28] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Ix Method wrote:The current implants system actively puts people who want to take risks at a disadvantage.
How does that fit into your vision of Eve? Cause tbh it feels pretty ridiculous within mine. How does it put them at a disadvantage? Yes they risk loosing their implants but those implants provide powerful benefits. Everything from increased training speed to massive changes to ship power, HP, and speed. You can choose to forgo the risk and use cheaper implants or no implants at all. If someone chooses to not use implants that is their choice. They will still eventually train into whatever ships they want just like the guy with a set of +4's in his head. Pirate implants aside it just boils down to SP. Some people will have more than others as a result of their implant choices. I don't think this has ever been an issue in EVE. Large amounts of SP is not required have fun or participate in most activities. All fleets need scouts and guys in smaller support ships. I have far less SP than most toons my age and I don't feel this has ever held me back. Because your time in this game is not infinite and therefore SP is lost when its not gained. It can't really be balanced against anything for that reason.
Sure 9/10 it doesn't matter but that's not really the point. Its a system that, whether we deem the consequences minor or no, kicks people in the baws for doing things beyond half-awake mission running and mining while chatting on Twitter. Its contrary to the efforts being made to get people engaged beyond the confines of Osmon and probably to the game most of us, at least the vocal types, want.
There's people who don't care either way. There's people that wouldn't PVP if they were immortal. Both are scarcely relevant because changing the implants wouldn't matter to them. Its the ones in between that need that little shove to - maybe - get them out there.
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
742
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 21:10:18 -
[29] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Because your time in this game is not infinite and therefore SP is lost when its not gained. It can't really be balanced against anything for that reason. So because you have less SP than someone else you must be having less fun? What? I don't even.
Ix Method wrote:Sure 9/10 it doesn't matter but that's not really the point. Isn't it?
Ix Method wrote:Its a system that, whether we deem the consequences minor or no, kicks people in the baws for doing things beyond half-awake mission running and mining while chatting on Twitter. Its contrary to the efforts being made to get people engaged beyond the confines of Osmon and probably to the game most of us, at least the vocal types, seem to want. How so? If I jump into a PVP clone with no implants and go shoot people and get myself killed how has the system kicked me in the nuts? So I sacrificed some SP/hr to reduce my ISK lost while having fun, who cares, it was my choice. I might have kicked myself in the nuts if I went full purpletard with my ship fittings but the system didn't do anything to me by itself.
I could just as easily PVP with my +4's in and then just buy some new ones when I loose them. Its no different than loosing a ship. You just buy another one. ISK isn't so hard to come by that leaning implants can't be replaced frequently.
There is a way to get all the hisec miners and Osmon mission addicts to participate in the wider game, you just have to make them. With a gun. Be the change you wish to see and all that. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
295
|
Posted - 2014.11.10 22:37:32 -
[30] - Quote
I have been. They dock up and hide because implants
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |