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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6672
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:40:39 -
[661] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: The three strikes system is an abhorent abuse of baisic morality it has absolutely nothing to do with internet space ships bringing it up in that context makes you look a complete fool as aposed to plain wrong
Oh, so we should just let criminals break the law into infinity? How is that not also an abuse of basic morality. To be fair almost nothing has to do with internet space ships. Drawing parallels to the real world is a starting point. Humans play the game, humans built the game. So why shouldn't the game be compared to ideas of human justice? Not arguing the irl point further. And we do have a system, standing, crime wach and CONCORD are all part of that, if you don't feel that's enough then get out and do something about it.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:41:19 -
[662] - Quote
I've got it!
A Solution to make everyone unhappy.
Cut the EHP of the ship.. AND remove all 0.5 bottleneck systems in Highsec. Either by adding some additional gates to go around them, or changing them to say 0.7 systems..
There, now you get the easier kill, and we get to not be required to go through the most vulnerable systems in Highsec to move about. And now you actually have to hunt your prey, rather than just sit in a system where you know they have to go through just to move from A to B. |
Valterra Craven
320
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:41:44 -
[663] - Quote
Tippia wrote: GǪand the reason is because you have yet to make any kind of connection between your irrelevant tangent and you initial assertion. You have yet to explain why the game should change.[quote=Tippia]
The game should change because the risk reward balance is still skewed too favorably toward the attacker. (big note here since everyone is talking about freighters, that again, I'm talking about ALL high sec ganking, not just limited to freighters).
[quote=Tippia]Why notGÇ¥ means you can't actually think of a single reason why the game should change, and that is all you're saying here.
No, it just means you haven't made an actual argument for me to disprove beyond what I've already done. I've already done away with your argument that nerfing ganking further would not in anyway mess up the balance in creation and production, and because you've run out of arguments to attack my original one you are asking me to make further arguments. |
Fruckton Haulalot
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:42:09 -
[664] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Fruckton Haulalot wrote:and again i point out the fact... that current game machinics allow an ORCA to acheive a little over 450 ehp and still remain a very usefull and talented ship for many aspects not just mining command..
This Bowhead should be at least 20% TO 40% tougher then the Orca...
the orca's current ehp is not intentional, it was due to the addition of hull rigs and the orca has a lot of hull using it as a comparison to the bowhead is p dumb and you should feel dumb
the BOWhead is in line with the ORCA and the Rorqual... so use them as comparisons is a logical and justifiable means of figured where the Bowhead stats should be..
calling folks names only shows that your just trolling or you have no real helpfull suggestions for the Bowhead in either case your views are not relivent in this thread and keep disctracting from the topic.
The Bowhead from its first concept through the many many debates can and will be a great new ship with many new aspects and uses to the game.
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Valterra Craven
320
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:43:10 -
[665] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: And we do have a system, standing, crime wach and CONCORD are all part of that, if you don't feel that's enough then get out and do something about it.
And how do you think a lot of those systems came to being? I'm doing exactly what I need to do to effect a change in game mechanics. Writing about it on the forums and giving feedback to the devs.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5483
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:43:21 -
[666] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:War Kitten wrote:
Keep in mind that as capsuleers, we're like superheros (or super-villains) to the average citizen in the Eve universe. We're Bill Gates-rich - even the poorest newbie that started the game last week has more money and more earning capability than the top 1% of standard citizens. We have the means to nearly any end. Concord can only hope to punish, not prevent. Death does not stop us - we have clones.
So yeah, throw me in jail... give me the death penalty... I'll be back...
EDIT: Oh, and there probably aren't many statistics to run for people that repeat the same crime successfully for decades.... because they're successful at it by definition.
Keep in mind that as capsuleers we aren't in actuality goods. Clones can be destroyed. The process can fail. The lore is there that this can happen, its just not exploited. So you would be in favor of a game mechanic that would let someone hunt down and permanently destroy a clone, or prevent reanimation? Or are you saying this game based on player interaction should just have a magic threshold where it says "Poof, you lose because of too much killing"?
Quote: As to your comment, actually there can be. There's a reason serial killers are found, their patterns are studied and people realize the crime is connected to the same person. Yes things can be copied. But my point is this, given enough time and enough activity you will be caught. Put another way, if you are familiar with the pirate bay story, they recently just caught another founder after he skipped his country. He pissed off the wrong people and they were willing to track him down. In any case my point remains. Things do catch up to you as a matter of statistics and no matter of hand waving discounts this.
Again, 1 or 2 examples of people getting caught is not data on the number of unsolved crimes. You're the one hand waving with anecdotes instead of numbers.
Regardless, that line of reasoning isn't relevant to ganking. We know who committed those acts - there's proof on the killboards. The issue goes back to the punishment, or lack thereof. As much as possible, the Eve world is about player interaction - players building, players destroying, players conquering, players policing. I'd be all for more mechanics that let players hunt other players for the atrocities they commit - real or imagined.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
489
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:45:17 -
[667] - Quote
Fruckton Haulalot wrote: the BOWhead is in line with the ORCA and the Rorqual... so use them as comparisons is a logical and justifiable means of figured where the Bowhead stats should be..
this is not how ship balance works |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24684
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:45:47 -
[668] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:No, it just means you haven't made an actual argument for me to disprove beyond what I've already done. There is nothing for you to disprove. There is only the question you have yet to answer properly: why should the game change on such a fundamental level?
Quote:The game should change because the risk reward balance is still skewed too favorably toward the attacker. Do you have anything to support this assertion?
Quote:I've already done away with your argument that nerfing ganking further would not in anyway mess up the balance in creation and production No, you have just dismissed it by a neat combination of argument from ignorance and strawman argumentation. You have yet to actually adress the facts of the matter or the substance of my argument. Feel free to do that as well once you're done answering the question GÇ£why?GÇ¥
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
489
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:46:06 -
[669] - Quote
Suicide Smith wrote:I've got it!
A Solution to make everyone unhappy.
Cut the EHP of the ship.. AND remove all 0.5 bottleneck systems in Highsec. Either by adding some additional gates to go around them, or changing them to say 0.7 systems..
There, now you get the easier kill, and we get to not be required to go through the most vulnerable systems in Highsec to move about. And now you actually have to hunt your prey, rather than just sit in a system where you know they have to go through just to move from A to B. These routes already exist
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/route/2:Amarr:Jita:-Niarja http://evemaps.dotlan.net/route/2:Dodixie:Jita:-Uedama |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
754
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:47:41 -
[670] - Quote
Can No you trolls stop polluting this thread no one cares who is right and you are just non needed noise thank you.
If i have to choose on tank or space i would say more tank. |
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5620
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:47:58 -
[671] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Querns wrote: At $10, how could you not? Shoot, I spent $10 for lunch today. Them's some cheap-ass friends.
$10? I don't think even a year long sub is that cheap, nor is the plex value anywhere near that...? Please tell me how you play for 10 dollars a month.... he's talking about the cost of a forums dot somethingawful dot com, premiere internet posting station and friend vending machine, account also ahahahahahaha look at you idiots trying to draw parallels between real life society and eve Let me nail down my point:
A new player should have all the tools and requirements to play a game, within said game. Having to already have an established relationship from a completely separate entity, such as forum, in order to have a chance to not just survive but thrive is terrible. Just because someone entered the game with loads of friends already established who promptly escorted them away from a specific part of the game (high sec) does not mean high sec is fine.
People say high sec should be more dangerous, others say it is too dangerous with suicide ganking. See the fact most suicide tankers can not be stopped before the gank happens due to Concord protecting them or other mechanics are mitigated away such as insta outs and expired kill rights.
High sec can't become more dangerous if the tutorials and missions shove players to be unprepared for actual combat with other players. Sorry but forcing a new player to lose a ship in the tutorial hardly does anything to teach them PvP. People say concord is consequences, not protection. Fine, but what is being done to show new players how to get into PvP to actually do something against those would be bad guys? It sure as hell is not happening from being fought to do high sec missions with fits that don't stand a chance in PvP.
[b]You can not expect new players to enter a game with a group already established in the game as the bar to not just survive but enjoy and grow.[b]
The Paradox
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1676
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:48:26 -
[672] - Quote
Question for gankers. How much do your Gank Talos's cost? And how much damage do they do in 30 seconds. Because if the Bowhead is carrying Pirate BS/Marauders like it will be if used for it's intended High sec purpose, thats 2-3 billion in pure hull value sitting in it. Plus possibly some more in some logi cruisers. Say if it's an Incursion runner moving their hulls from one focus to another, they will have a DPS, a Sniper, at least 2 logi, and possibly a second DPS or Sniper as well. All of which will be T2 rigged.
So 2 Bil+ is the minimum realistic value to expect the Bowhead to move. This T2 Fitted T1 BS stuff is absolute rubbish as far as it's use in highsec goes.
So I'm curious to see how you cost/loss maths actually work out against the Bowhead when you use a realistic hull value for it's contents, even if we assume they stripped the modules and moved those in a blockade runner. |
Syss7
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
19
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:50:14 -
[673] - Quote
I'm really excited for this new ship!
Thank you CCP Rise. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
490
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:50:53 -
[674] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Querns wrote: At $10, how could you not? Shoot, I spent $10 for lunch today. Them's some cheap-ass friends.
$10? I don't think even a year long sub is that cheap, nor is the plex value anywhere near that...? Please tell me how you play for 10 dollars a month.... he's talking about the cost of a forums dot somethingawful dot com, premiere internet posting station and friend vending machine, account also ahahahahahaha look at you idiots trying to draw parallels between real life society and eve Let me nail down my point: A new player should have all the tools and requirements to play a game, within said game. Having to already have an established relationship from a completely separate entity, such as forum, in order to have a chance to not just survive but thrive is terrible. Just because someone entered the game with loads of friends already established who promptly escorted them away from a specific part of the game (high sec) does not mean high sec is fine. People say high sec should be more dangerous, others say it is too dangerous with suicide ganking. See the fact most suicide tankers can not be stopped before the gank happens due to Concord protecting them or other mechanics are mitigated away such as insta outs and expired kill rights. High sec can't become more dangerous if the tutorials and missions shove players to be unprepared for actual combat with other players. Sorry but forcing a new player to lose a ship in the tutorial hardly does anything to teach them PvP. People say concord is consequences, not protection. Fine, but what is being done to show new players how to get into PvP to actually do something against those would be bad guys? It sure as hell is not happening from being fought to do high sec missions with fits that don't stand a chance in PvP. [b]You can not expect new players to enter a game with a group already established in the game as the bar to not just survive but enjoy and grow.[b] so how did you go from "highsec is not the end all and be all of the newbie experience, look at this anecdote to the contrary" to this wall of tism |
Valterra Craven
320
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:52:03 -
[675] - Quote
War Kitten wrote: So you would be in favor of a game mechanic that would let someone hunt down and permanently destroy a clone, or prevent reanimation? Or are you saying this game based on player interaction should just have a magic threshold where it says "Poof, you lose because of too much killing"?
Nope. But I would be in favor of people that continually engage in high sec ganking receiving some form of permanent handicap while in high sec.
War Kitten wrote: Again, 1 or 2 examples of people getting caught is not data on the number of unsolved crimes. You're the one hand waving with anecdotes instead of numbers.
Regardless, that line of reasoning isn't relevant to ganking. We know who committed those acts - there's proof on the killboards. The issue goes back to the punishment, or lack thereof. As much as possible, the Eve world is about player interaction - players building, players destroying, players conquering, players policing. I'd be all for more mechanics that let players hunt other players for the atrocities they commit - real or imagined.
Again, I'm not talking about unsolved crimes. I'm talking about the statistical probability of your odds of getting caught and punished given that one repeatedly indulges in criminal behavior.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
490
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:53:00 -
[676] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Question for gankers. How much do your Gank Talos's cost? And how much damage do they do in 30 seconds. Because if the Bowhead is carrying Pirate BS/Marauders like it will be if used for it's intended High sec purpose, thats 2-3 billion in pure hull value sitting in it. Plus possibly some more in some logi cruisers. Say if it's an Incursion runner moving their hulls from one focus to another, they will have a DPS, a Sniper, at least 2 logi, and possibly a second DPS or Sniper as well. All of which will be T2 rigged.
So 2 Bil+ is the minimum realistic value to expect the Bowhead to move. This T2 Fitted T1 BS stuff is absolute rubbish as far as it's use in highsec goes.
So I'm curious to see how you cost/loss maths actually work out against the Bowhead when you use a realistic hull value for it's contents, even if we assume they stripped the modules and moved those in a blockade runner. do they not have zkillboard where you live
https://zkillboard.com/kill/42334618/ about 115m
trying to argue that the ship should be ungankable because your narrow imagination says the only use case for the ship is schlepping around your overpriced autism chariot is pretty funny |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24684
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:53:36 -
[677] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:High sec can't become more dangerous if the tutorials and missions shove players to be unprepared for actual combat with other players Just one problem with this claim: highsec was far more dangerous, especially to newbies, when they had even less guidance and were tossed out into open space even less prepared. Saying that GÇ£it can't becomeGÇ¥ what it has already been is somewhat disingenuous.
Quote:You can not expect new players to enter a game with a group already established in the game as the bar to not just survive but enjoy and grow. This is fair enough, but at the same time, it shows that all that is required for new players to enjoy, grow, and thrive is that they are properly educated GÇö not that they are coddled or protected. What's really needed is better ways for new players to make those crucial connections, rather than be the standard scapegoat for established players looking to make their own lives easier.
Valterra Craven wrote:Nope. But I would be in favor of people that continually engage in high sec ganking receiving some form of permanent handicap while in high sec. This already exists in numerous incarnations. You are in favour of the game as it already works.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13857
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 20:56:12 -
[678] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Question for gankers. How much do your Gank Talos's cost? And how much damage do they do in 30 seconds. Because if the Bowhead is carrying Pirate BS/Marauders like it will be if used for it's intended High sec purpose, thats 2-3 billion in pure hull value sitting in it. Plus possibly some more in some logi cruisers. Say if it's an Incursion runner moving their hulls from one focus to another, they will have a DPS, a Sniper, at least 2 logi, and possibly a second DPS or Sniper as well. All of which will be T2 rigged.
So 2 Bil+ is the minimum realistic value to expect the Bowhead to move. This T2 Fitted T1 BS stuff is absolute rubbish as far as it's use in highsec goes.
So I'm curious to see how you cost/loss maths actually work out against the Bowhead when you use a realistic hull value for it's contents, even if we assume they stripped the modules and moved those in a blockade runner.
CCP dont tank these things according to the highest possible isk value junk you can stuff in it.
450k ehp is more than enough tank for this whale, you people already transport more expensive cargo in ships with much less tank.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5483
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:59:21 -
[679] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Question for gankers. How much do your Gank Talos's cost? And how much damage do they do in 30 seconds. Because if the Bowhead is carrying Pirate BS/Marauders like it will be if used for it's intended High sec purpose, thats 2-3 billion in pure hull value sitting in it. Plus possibly some more in some logi cruisers. Say if it's an Incursion runner moving their hulls from one focus to another, they will have a DPS, a Sniper, at least 2 logi, and possibly a second DPS or Sniper as well. All of which will be T2 rigged.
So 2 Bil+ is the minimum realistic value to expect the Bowhead to move. This T2 Fitted T1 BS stuff is absolute rubbish as far as it's use in highsec goes.
So I'm curious to see how you cost/loss maths actually work out against the Bowhead when you use a realistic hull value for it's contents, even if we assume they stripped the modules and moved those in a blockade runner.
Go back and read / search for Warr Akini's posts. He's rather authoritative in Goonswarm's ganking for profit division.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Valterra Craven
320
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:04:21 -
[680] - Quote
Tippia wrote:There is nothing for you to disprove. There is only the question you have yet to answer properly: why should the game change on such a fundamental level?
Again your opinion.
Tippia wrote:Quote:The game should change because the risk reward balance is still skewed too favorably toward the attacker. Do you have anything to support this assertion? More to the point, how does this in any way support or explain the assertion that you should not be allowed to be a permanent criminal?
Because being a permanent criminal means that the risks are not high enough to deter the activity. That's generally how most systems work. People have to weigh how much a short term activity will profit them versus the long term potential affects of that behavior and how it could affect their choices in the future. In the current system the question is only how profitable is this for me to do? Given that tags are easily purchased that is neatly added into the cost equation but does not address the long term repercussions of the behavior.
Tippia wrote:Quote:I've already done away with your argument that nerfing ganking further would not in anyway mess up the balance in creation and production No, you have just dismissed it by a neat combination of argument from ignorance and strawman argumentation. You have yet to actually adress the facts of the matter or the substance of my argument. Feel free to do that as well once you're done answering the question GÇ£why?GÇ¥
Oh, please point out to me where you proved that high sec ganking is a fundamental part of the game as a question of economy? Please also point out to me how asking you to do is is also a strawman. |
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Celly S
Concord Attraction Services The Ditanian Alliance
329
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:05:17 -
[681] - Quote
Querns wrote:Celly S wrote: please do
oh wait, someone else who couldn't come up with a valid counter to one of my statements already did that.
Apparently constantly being called out on lack of evidence, moving goalposts, and a systemic lack of understanding of game mechanics counts as having a position with no "valid counter."
exactly, since from the get go you have ignored my original statement, tried to twist what i said, and even after being shown that your assertions were wrong, you've continued to troll me
here, let me dumb it down for you so you'll understand my original comment
there is a ship in low and null that has a jump drive and can haul fitted ships. because of the rorqual's limitation to industrial only ships, the only other ship with that capability is called a carrier.
Everything else you've dreamed up has been on you, not me...
so you my friend are a troll and in typical goon fashion, resort to threats when someone won't cow toe to your point of view... Now please move along and let the adults have their discussion...
report my name if you want, i don't care, in fact, I'm certain CCP will get a kick out of you reporting "Celly S" as obscene. but please don't waste my time with any more of your drivel and twisting of what was a simple straightforward statement to begin with...
o/ Celly Smunt
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal.
Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular.
Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself.
A sandwich can be a great motivator.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
490
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:07:18 -
[682] - Quote
also laughin @ the assertion that three T2 fit battleships is over 2b isk
because i am lazy i can only really think of one guy who flies battleships basically all the time so here is baltec1's most recent megathron loss
https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=25960662
okay so it's a shield megathron but it's definitely T2 and what do we have here, a price tag of 263m
you'd need to be able to store 8 of those bad boys in a bowhead before they hit the 2b DANGER ZONE |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
490
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:09:08 -
[683] - Quote
Celly S wrote:Querns wrote:Celly S wrote: please do
oh wait, someone else who couldn't come up with a valid counter to one of my statements already did that.
Apparently constantly being called out on lack of evidence, moving goalposts, and a systemic lack of understanding of game mechanics counts as having a position with no "valid counter." exactly, since from the get go you have ignored my original statement, tried to twist what i said, and even after being shown that your assertions were wrong, you've continued to troll me here, let me dumb it down for you so you'll understand my original comment there is a ship in low and null that has a jump drive and can haul fitted ships. because of the rorqual's limitation to industrial only ships, the only other ship with that capability is called a carrier. Everything else you've dreamed up has been on you, not me... so you my friend are a troll and in typical goon fashion, resort to threats when someone won't cow toe to your point of view... Now please move along and let the adults have their discussion... report my name if you want, i don't care, in fact, I'm certain CCP will get a kick out of you reporting "Celly S" as obscene. but please don't waste my time with any more of your drivel and twisting of what was a simple straightforward statement to begin with... sure are postin a lot about it for not caring |
Valterra Craven
320
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 21:09:10 -
[684] - Quote
Tippa wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Nope. But I would be in favor of people that continually engage in high sec ganking receiving some form of permanent handicap while in high sec. This already exists in numerous incarnations. You are in favour of the game as it already works.
Please elaborate. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13858
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 21:09:16 -
[685] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:also laughin @ the assertion that three T2 fit battleships is over 2b isk because i am lazy i can only really think of one guy who flies battleships basically all the time so here is baltec1's most recent megathron loss https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=25960662 okay so it's a shield megathron but it's definitely T2 and what do we have here, a price tag of 263m you'd need to be able to store 8 of those bad boys in a bowhead before they hit the 2b DANGER ZONE
RIP Mengu
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1676
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:09:51 -
[686] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
CCP dont tank these things according to the highest possible isk value junk you can stuff in it.
450k ehp is more than enough tank for this whale, you people already transport more expensive cargo in ships with much less tank.
I'm not talking the highest possible Isk value however. I'm assuming they actually stripped the modules. If they fail to strip the modules or transport the modules in the Bowheads own hold then they would actually be hauling 10-20 Billion in Isk to haul all of their Incursion ships around in most cases. And sure, I don't expect CCP to tank it according to that. I'm talking about the base hull value for the use that CCP is claiming they built the ship for, vs the cost of the gank required to reliably succeed at said gank. Assuming that 20 Talos are actually needed which which I'm not convinced on off the numbers I know..... then it feels like it about balances out if that 115 Mil value the killboards give is actually correct in game. I don't assume kill boards are correct as a given, I much prefer actual figures from in game. Since then it's about 2 billion to gank one of these in a 'standard' way, vs a 2-3 Billion in base hull value that is likely to drop. So someone smart who tanks it out and strips modules isn't going to be at terrible risk, though you can't see if modules are stripped at present I know. And someone who organises enough people (or isboxes 55 accounts which sadly removes most of the effort involved but hey, different debate) to do it with cheaper Catalysts has in theory done a lot more. And Catalysts have much shorter range making it harder to get them all applying perfectly at the same time.
Also, like always, drop the 'you people'. It weakens your argument when you resort to such emotive tricks as making it 'us and them'. Stick with the logical arguments based on figures and what CCP have said was their intent. Works much better on actually reaching middle ground instead of alienating people. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24684
|
Posted - 2014.11.11 21:11:58 -
[687] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Because being a permanent criminal means that the risks are not high enough to deter the activity. Why should it be deterred?
Quote:Oh, please point out to me where you proved that high sec ganking is a fundamental part of the game as a question of economy? It was in the post where I pointed out your strawman.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
490
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:15:49 -
[688] - Quote
but i have a right to fly as expensive an autism chariot as I wish because i am in highsec and highsec is supposed to be safe |
Valterra Craven
320
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:16:17 -
[689] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Because being a permanent criminal means that the risks are not high enough to deter the activity. Why should it be deterred?[/quote Why shouldn't it? This is the main problem with your argument about not answering "why" questions in a debate. The problem is that if I keep answering I'm continually on the offensive having to go down a rabbit hole to infinity. I've made a point. I've backed it. You disagree with it? Fine. Come up with substantive counter argument. Otherwise I'm not interested in childish games. Otherwise, please refer to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMB-0sE__cY Tippia wrote: [quote]Oh, please point out to me where you proved that high sec ganking is a fundamental part of the game as a question of economy?
It was in the post where I pointed out your strawman. So the same post you did nothing? |
Celly S
Concord Attraction Services The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:16:51 -
[690] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote: sure are postin a lot about it for not caring
about him reporting me?, I could care less.. about him twisting what was said in the first place into something else and trying to act as though he has a clue?, he twisted what I said originally, told me carriers were nerfed for their tank, then when told that wasn't it, he said their combat abilities, and again when told that wasn't it, resorted to trying to make it seem as though I said carriers were nerfed for their sma..
telling lies and putting words in my mouth I do care about.
o/ Celly Smunt
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal.
Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular.
Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself.
A sandwich can be a great motivator.
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