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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3907
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:00:27 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me. Agility is definitely preferable. Not that it necessarily matters, but what's the total rig calibration - 300, 350 or 400? And completely unrelated, at some point it would be nice to have a transport-specific rig or module that allowed players to convert their merchantman to an armed raider (AMC) by swapping cargo space for turrets or launchers.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arden Elenduil
Scary Devil Monastery
173
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:01:17 -
[92] - Quote
Praal wrote:Arden Elenduil wrote: With the main load being in its SMA, you can utilize all slots for tank, which as said before, gives it a 350k ehp tank (which is pretty damn tough, even for ganking standards) and you can even fit a 100MN MWD on top of that. That's solo. Flying with an alt in a hyena makes you ungankable due to instant warps.
No, it doesn't make it ungankable, it just requires the gankers to fit points and/or have a couple extra gankers to alpha the Hyena as soon as it decloaks. Ask all the "insta"-align ceptors that get killed in nullsec how that works out for safety. Besides, to use a Hyena you need a second pilot, which means you could already be moving 2 battleships with the resources you're expending, and doing it faster.
The advance warning you get when a ship being webbed into warp is arriving is such that it's nigh on impossible to time properly. Not to mention the fact that you can hardly scan it when that happens.
I'll admit, there is a VERY remote possibility that the hyena might be ganked, but even then, the odds of it happening are so ridiculously slim, it's hilarious. Also, I think using a second pilot to counteract the combined efforts of at least a dozen people counts as pretty balanced. |
handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
278
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:01:59 -
[93] - Quote
I like the idea for the ship, making it have a bigger SHA than a carrier is somewhat awkward though, but i guess being a jack of all trades, makes you a master of none.
I don't think that it's really fitting to the ORE faction. It's a ship moving Ships. There is nothing industrial about it, it's all logistics. Lore wise I think it would be better fitting to move the ships to the Factions and have ORE as the designer.
Something like: ORE came up with the design, but decided it would be to nich+¬ and not fitting their core business (being industrial with mining etc) enough to go through to final production. Instead they sold the almost finished Designs to interested factions which then had to finish designing them, before being able to produce them an masse and put Blueprints out for interested parties.
This way you can use the same model, with different shaders and make some minor adjustments to stats like how the regular freighters are done. You can also use the respective races freighter skill to fly the ship.
Baddest poster ever
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Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
92
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:07:09 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?
And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me.
CCP Rise for president!
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
969
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:07:35 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?
And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me. Dropping align doesn't really make much sense, as the ship has enough grid to fit a prototype 100mn mwd, which lowers the align to 10-12s. I guess if you are autopiloting, it is nice, but the 5% velocity is also nice in that situation too.
The only compelling bonus is warp speed, but honestly, it doesn't really matter.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Medalyn Isis
Rosewood Productions
419
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:16:08 -
[96] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?
And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me. Wow, that was quick. I'm impressed, never seen CCP respond to feedback this quickly. Has someone slipped happy pills into the office coffee machine this morning or something? |
Dave Stark
7127
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:17:28 -
[97] - Quote
fits 3 battleships. fits 100mn mwd if you sacrifice a low (or maybe even don't have to depending on the rest of your fit, i fail at mentally fitting ships while at work).
3 rig and 3 lows mean it should fit a decent tank, too.
overall, 10/10, good job. will probably purchase one. can you refit from it? guessing not but... |
Seiko Hikitari
Everlasting Vendetta.
6
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:21:21 -
[98] - Quote
Querns wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?
And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me. Dropping align doesn't really make much sense, as the ship has enough grid to fit a prototype 100mn mwd, which lowers the align to 10-12s. I guess if you are autopiloting, it is nice, but the 5% velocity is also nice in that situation too. The only compelling bonus is warp speed, but honestly, it doesn't really matter. +1 in favor of warp speed bonus |
Kalina Sabree
While in Empire Accidental Overdose
0
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:23:11 -
[99] - Quote
Any idea what if any wormhole class restrictions this new ship will have?
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Delekon
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
10
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:24:02 -
[100] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Delekon wrote:Can the mass be lowered to 300000000? So it can fit in all wormhole types.
If it stays like this the ship will only be available to the residents of the c5/c6. You can also give us a rig that reduces mass for this ship, by smth like 20% (sort of the opposite of the planned higgs anchor rig) . This way we get to use it without making the ship more bump-able in highsec.
Otherwise totally cool idea. That may not be a good idea necessarily. While it would be interesting to fit this through wormholes, being able to cram what would be an army of ships into a random wormhole (c2-c4), with 1 guy, might be a bit unbalancing and more like how nullsec would supply their line. Don't think c1 through c4 space needs this ship in there.
The ship can't really carry that much. I think it's like 10 t3s. The limiting factor in sieges is always the number of pilots and never the number of hulls.
Having the ship will mean you can log off and get out in case of a siege. This could be a bad idea to some extent but i think whspace needs a bit more accessibility atm. The ships also provide some help with security. It takes far less time to just adjust the mass of this hull to be more like the orca than to fix the POS code, right? |
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Medalyn Isis
Rosewood Productions
419
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:26:02 -
[101] - Quote
350k ehp, according to my suicide ganking spreadsheet at least, would take about 1 billion isk of Talos's, or 20 to 30 catalysts to take it down in a 0.5 system.
I guess it depends what you are looking at having it transport though, if it is 3 faction or T2 battleships then I would think ehp should be higher. Perhaps 500k ehp would be a nice number. |
Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
38
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:29:29 -
[102] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Darirol wrote:why do all those industrial ships have a speed bonus? Because travel speed is one of the most important characteristics for haulers. Capacity, gank resilience and travel speed are basically it. ok |
CopyCatz
gaming is not a crime The Volition Cult
77
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:30:19 -
[103] - Quote
At what skill level is the 3 battleship mark met? It would be nice if level 4 of the new skill would enable 1.5m hangar capacity. Training up freighters to lvl 5 has been a real pita in the past, and since most lvl5 reqs usually get toned down to 4 later on it would be nice in this case also. EHP could be a bit higher; mobile missioners will be carrying at least 2 marauders in the bowhead, raising loot value well over 2B. With about 1B in gank ships needed this is way too profitable. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
839
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:30:21 -
[104] - Quote
The limiting factor of a siege is the number of people and the number of hulls.
Still being able to put into c1 through c4 space, what is essentially a freighter, is not a good idea in my opinion.
They have options already, though c5 and c6 would be interesting.
Yaay!!!!
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Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
45
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:32:46 -
[105] - Quote
Who ganks for profit anymore, though? I've seen ganks on tank-fit Charons not carrying anything.
Also, pre-empting the people who are going to complain about the fatigue bonus it gets, if you're concerned about people moving ships en masse with these to staging systems, they don't carry very many ships. You'd need tons of these for a single fleet. |
Dave Stark
7127
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:32:51 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Darirol wrote:why do all those industrial ships have a speed bonus? Because travel speed is one of the most important characteristics for haulers. Capacity, gank resilience and travel speed are basically it.
not sure "travel speed" means what you think it means, rise. |
Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:32:53 -
[107] - Quote
All in All I like it.
I would like to see an extra mid, putting it more in line with an Orca.. Seeing as how it doesn't have highs or drones.. So 0/4/3. Love that the HP is getting a buff. Love that the speed bonus might be changed for an agility bonus.. though Warpspeed would be <3
Would like to see a little more Cargo.. Really don't want to have to carry around Industrial(s) in the main bay just to haul around more ammo.. I'd rather see 6-8000.. Or add a Corp Hangar like an Orca has with a few thousand m3..
All in all though I like it :) |
Dave Stark
7127
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:34:38 -
[108] - Quote
CopyCatz wrote:At what skill level is the 3 battleship mark met? It would be nice if level 4 of the new skill would enable 1.5m hangar capacity. Training up freighters to lvl 5 has been a real pita in the past, and since most lvl5 reqs usually get toned down to 4 later on it would be nice in this case also. EHP could be a bit higher; mobile missioners will be carrying at least 2 marauders in the bowhead, raising loot value well over 2B. With about 1B in gank ships needed this is way too profitable.
level IV of the skill gets you 1.56m m3 if my maths is correct. |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
486
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:36:13 -
[109] - Quote
Viscis Breeze wrote:What an ironic ship, so its main role is to move fitted catalysts to choke points so that it can be ganked by them!
You do realize that you can already move 1,1mil m3 of fitted catalyst using freighter and courier contract?
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Arla Sarain
104
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:38:31 -
[110] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Quote:5% bonus to max velocity per level What is that for? The time constant, and hence acceleration, depend on max velocity. Whilst for any velocity the time constant is the same, accelerating quickly and then having someone apply webs to drop your max speed and hence the warp speed threshold means you warp out faster.
Basically faster speed means you accelerate faster. At a certain point if your max speed is dropped you end up above the warp threshold. This brings you to that point quicker.
Still, too much effort and too ambiguous in the grand scheme of things. |
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Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
486
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:40:43 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?
And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me.
good change.
as for HP I think that 3 t2 bs'es with t2 rigs (faction fit travel in separate much safer transport i presume) should be a baseline, so assuming 1-2 of the three drops (if drop is fixed at all) thats 1-2b drop and 4b tears. sooo 2b worth of taloses of damage in ehp please?
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Dave Stark
7127
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:42:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Alright, we're talking about it here and think there's probably no good reason not to raise the HP some. Where do you guys think it needs to be to make say, three t2 fit BS, inefficient to gank?
And you're right about afk travel vs active travel, switching to agility to support align time sounds good to me.
there's no need for this thing to exceed 400k ehp with a full tank fit. no need what so ever. If people want to stuff 3bn isk worth of marauder hulls in it... well they deserve what they get.
however changing the velocity bonus would be very welcome, i'm not even sure an align time bonus would be that much more helpful if you can fit an MWD to it anyway. I'd rather a warp speed bonus, than an align time bonus. |
Slevin-Kelevra
Origin. Black Legion.
6
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:42:43 -
[113] - Quote
Says "we arenGÇÖt really worried about hitting anything outside of the high-sec application", gives it 90% reduction in jump fatigue generation.
In other words, "We nerfed jump bridges but we feel bad so use this to move your ships with much less fatigue". For reference 1.6 Mill m3 is 96 fitted harpies, and yes I used harpies for a specific reason.
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Dave Stark
7127
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:44:29 -
[114] - Quote
Slevin-Kelevra wrote: Says "we arenGÇÖt really worried about hitting anything outside of the high-sec application", gives it 90% reduction in jump fatigue generation.
In other words, "We nerfed jump bridges but we feel bad so use this to move your ships with much less fatigue". For reference 1.6 Mill m3 is 96 fitted harpies, and yes I used harpies for a specific reason.
so what you're saying is that if everyone buys one of these ships they can carry like 80+ harpies to every deployment and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to join every harpyfleet ping and move them where they're needed very rapidly due to the role bonus? |
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
1236
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:44:58 -
[115] - Quote
the 400-500k range seems much more favourable to seeing this getting used, as opposed to just following the current methods, pilot the battleships, or freighter haul hulls.
However, I'm still confused about something; if you want to encourage the players to escort and defend their industrials, why do you then make this ship hull tanked? There are no effective remote hull repair ships for high sec (assuming you had capital remotes for your carrier, and even that isnt efficient) , but if this had its primary hp in shields, then at least a gang of logistics would be able to defend it against heavy dps, without slave implant sets blowing the hp out of proportion. Opens up options. |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
486
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:46:44 -
[116] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:Quote:5% bonus to max velocity per level What is that for? The time constant, and hence acceleration, depend on max velocity. Whilst for any velocity the time constant is the same, accelerating quickly and then having someone apply webs to drop your max speed and hence the warp speed threshold means you warp out faster. Basically faster speed means you accelerate faster. At a certain point if your max speed is dropped you end up above the warp threshold. This brings you to that point quicker. Still, too much effort and too ambiguous in the grand scheme of things.
No, I don't think You understand how it works.
Max speed have no correlation with align time. You can put all overdrives in the world into the ship and align time will stay the same. Same goes for webbing - it reduces not by fixed amount but by percentage, so it does not matter what is your max speed at all.
Align time is function of MASS and INERTIA. As long as mass stays the same and inertia stays the same the ship will accelerate at the same rate in relation to your max speed. Modules like nanofibers, inertia stabs, plates, microwarpdrives, afterburners all change mass and/or inertia of your ship - therefore affecting your align time.
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Slevin-Kelevra
Origin. Black Legion.
6
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:47:47 -
[117] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Slevin-Kelevra wrote: Says "we arenGÇÖt really worried about hitting anything outside of the high-sec application", gives it 90% reduction in jump fatigue generation.
In other words, "We nerfed jump bridges but we feel bad so use this to move your ships with much less fatigue". For reference 1.6 Mill m3 is 96 fitted harpies, and yes I used harpies for a specific reason.
so what you're saying is that if everyone buys one of these ships they can carry like 80+ harpies to every deployment and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to join every harpyfleet ping and move them where they're needed very rapidly due to the role bonus?
Yes, You need a few guys with these and you can move your 200 man harpy blob to anywhere in New Eden with tiny amounts of fatigue. GG CCP nerf something and then create a solution straight away, |
Arden Elenduil
Scary Devil Monastery
174
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:49:16 -
[118] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:
Max speed have no correlation with align time. You can put all overdrives in the world into the ship and align time will stay the same. Same goes for webbing - it reduces not by fixed amount but by percentage, so it does not matter what is your max speed at all.
Actually, webbing into warp does work, quite well even. It's simply that you let a ship build up a certain amount of speed (doesn't need much), slap a double web on it and that reduces the max velocity in such a way, that the ship is already at the required 3 quarters of max speed threshold of slipping into warp by virtue of having that tiny little period of unwebbed acceleration(try it out if you don't believe me). |
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:52:20 -
[119] - Quote
Slevin-Kelevra wrote:Yes, You need a few guys with these and you can move your 200 man harpy blob to anywhere in New Eden with tiny amounts of fatigue. GG CCP nerf something and then create a solution straight away,
You have to put all your eggs in one basket to do so.
CCP is hoping to encourage strikes at choke points as evidenced by the push to use stargates more. A goo d portion of the complaints made by people about these types of chenges always seem to neglect geographical strategy.
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Aloh
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
13
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:53:49 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I have in-game fitting window showing around 350k EHP with a DCU II, 2x reinforced bulkheads II, 3x Transverse bulkhead I
This is in the same range as tank-oriented freighters - I'm sure people using the hauler would want as much as possible but this range should be reasonable, yes?
No just no. It has the same EHP as an Orca if you put a similar tank on it. So how about you put a similar tank an Orca and put three hulks in it and make a run from the north to Jita through Amarr to a southern jump off point and see how far you get.
Once the needed changes to ship maintenance arrays come in no one will be using them outside of deep blue SOV space. It is a good idea but useless in practice.
Ask yourself why orcas have fallen out of favor for ship transport
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