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Vulfen
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
152
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Posted - 2014.11.10 16:51:20 -
[1] - Quote
So once again CCP has broken the Nestor, with carriers now able to jump gates who in their right mind would choose to take a Nestor as a heavy logistics ship? No one....
The Nestor is once again in need of a re balance because of other ships simply doing it better at all times.
CCP please revisit the nestor and try this time to do a job that isn't going to break in 6 weeks time.
Feel free everyone to post your ideas on what you think the nestor should be re balanced with in this thread. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1638
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Posted - 2014.11.10 16:54:04 -
[2] - Quote
was it ever fixed? |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
741
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:04:59 -
[3] - Quote
Rowells wrote:was it ever fixed? Not really. The Nestor is a solution looking for a problem. |
Vulfen
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
152
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:12:07 -
[4] - Quote
Rowells wrote:was it ever fixed? It had one use we found after the last rebalance... heavy logi However they were still not a viable replacement for Logi ships on the big engagments |
Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:25:31 -
[5] - Quote
Another 0.0 tears about nestor, can u understand nestor was made for wormholers? not for your "im center of everything" gameplay ... |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
284
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Posted - 2014.11.10 17:27:39 -
[6] - Quote
Zmikund wrote:Another 0.0 tears about nestor, can u understand nestor was made for wormholers? not for your "im center of everything" gameplay ... They're actually around the edges. HTH.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1082
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Posted - 2014.11.10 18:35:06 -
[7] - Quote
As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes.
I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple.
TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~
Youtube ~ Join Us
My ship fits
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Zmikund
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2014.11.10 19:11:13 -
[8] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes.
I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple.
Barghes has bad slot layout, it is supposted to be shield ship but i has same mid/low slot layout as armor nestor ... not to mention that 6 low slots on shield missile boat is pretty much big fail ... |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3908
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Posted - 2014.11.10 20:32:15 -
[9] - Quote
Zmikund wrote:Barghest has bad slot layout, it is supposted to be shield ship but i has same mid/low slot layout as armor nestor ... not to mention that 6 low slots on shield missile boat is pretty much big fail ... The 6 lows on the Barghest are actually fine; it's the lack of overall damage and application that sucks. I'd actually prefer a 7H-5M-8L layout, 6 launchers @ 50% damage and some kind of damage application bonus - like a fixed 20% explosion radius as a role bonus.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1083
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Posted - 2014.11.10 20:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Zmikund wrote:Barghest has bad slot layout, it is supposted to be shield ship but i has same mid/low slot layout as armor nestor ... not to mention that 6 low slots on shield missile boat is pretty much big fail ... The 6 lows on the Barghest are actually fine; it's the lack of overall damage and application that sucks. I'd actually prefer a 7H-5M-8L layout, 6 launchers @ 50% damage and some kind of damage application bonus - like a fixed 20% explosion radius as a role bonus.
I'd prefer a torp balance pass, as of now cruises are almost always better.
TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~
Youtube ~ Join Us
My ship fits
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3908
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Posted - 2014.11.10 20:46:10 -
[11] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:I'd prefer a torp balance pass, as of now cruises are almost always better. You won't get any argument from me. Truthfully, all they need to do is switch the explosion velocity radius from cruise missiles to torpedoes. And we need a low-slot missile damage enhancer module.
The Nestor isGǪ still beyond hope.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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craidie
Blackwater USA Academy Mordus Angels
13
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Posted - 2014.11.10 20:56:42 -
[12] - Quote
Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? |
Vulfen
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
152
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Posted - 2014.11.10 20:57:24 -
[13] - Quote
Zmikund wrote:Another 0.0 tears about nestor, can u understand nestor was made for wormholers? not for your "im center of everything" gameplay ...
Cant remember the last time i was in 0.0 .... |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3908
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Posted - 2014.11.10 21:06:29 -
[14] - Quote
craidie wrote:Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Not a bad idea, actually.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
446
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Posted - 2014.11.10 21:53:50 -
[15] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes.
I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple.
You should try that boat out on SiSi, she is a really fast boat and if you fly her like a nano-pest, you can do cool things from far away. Oh and the speed IS the tank.
signature
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Vulfen
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
152
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Posted - 2014.11.11 09:04:39 -
[16] - Quote
craidie wrote:Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships?
Decent enough idea, however this would mean giving it a cov ops cloak ability as well, as only ships that can use the cov ops cloak can go through the bridge.
Personally i would like to see it get the jump drive ability, but not be able to light bridges or get a bonus to any cloak. I think it's a more than fair change if that was the only thing it received. as it would then make a viable replacement for the now shorter range carriers as logistics to Black Ops fleets, which currently rely on very short range RRs.
Furthermore i think that considering that it has the ability to refit ships from, which is still it's best quality then it may open other doors for people. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3077
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Posted - 2014.11.11 09:54:46 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:[quote=Warde Guildencrantz]And we need a low-slot missile damage enhancer module.
I'll take "Ballistic Control Units" for 600, Alex.
If you're going to say "but what about application", I'll point you to TPs. Beyond that .. I don't think you want to open the Pandora's Box of "make missiles have the same modules turrets do".
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Vulfen
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
152
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Posted - 2014.11.11 09:58:45 -
[18] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:[quote=Warde Guildencrantz]And we need a low-slot missile damage enhancer module. I'll take "Ballistic Control Units" for 600, Alex. If you're going to say "but what about application", I'll point you to TPs. Beyond that .. I don't think you want to open the Pandora's Box of "make missiles have the same modules turrets do". They still have rigs that can help application too.
Just like shield and armour have variants (tanking module options) so should the different weapon platforms i.e drones, turrets and missiles. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3077
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Posted - 2014.11.11 10:02:54 -
[19] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:Just like shield and armour have variants (tanking module options) so should the different weapon platforms i.e drones, turrets and missiles.
The point I was making is that if we start giving missiles things like tracking enhancers and tracking computers and all the other things that turrets have and missiles don't, then we're going to see missiles getting modules aimed specifically at disrupting them as well, which I don't think will go over well for continuing to use missiles.
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Vulfen
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
152
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Posted - 2014.11.11 10:14:04 -
[20] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Vulfen wrote:Just like shield and armour have variants (tanking module options) so should the different weapon platforms i.e drones, turrets and missiles. The point I was making is that if we start giving missiles things like tracking enhancers and tracking computers and all the other things that turrets have and missiles don't, then we're going to see missiles getting modules aimed specifically at disrupting them as well, which I don't think will go over well for continuing to use missiles. I agree. Id rather see them just left alone in that sense |
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craidie
Blackwater USA Academy Mordus Angels
14
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Posted - 2014.11.11 11:43:01 -
[21] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:craidie wrote:Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Decent enough idea, however this would mean giving it a cov ops cloak ability as well, as only ships that can use the cov ops cloak can go through the bridge. Personally i would like to see it get the jump drive ability, but not be able to light bridges or get a bonus to any cloak. I think it's a more than fair change if that was the only thing it received. as it would then make a viable replacement for the now shorter range carriers as logistics to Black Ops fleets, which currently rely on very short range RRs. Furthermore i think that considering that it has the ability to refit ships from, which is still it's best quality then it may open other doors for people.
No, if they give a covops cloak to a battleship, it should be the black ops... i'm just suggesting that they could be bridged through BO bridges. The nestor has ridiculously low mass for a battleship and as such would take less fuel than bridging 2 recons. Currently there's only one logistics ship for black ops gangs, and that's an AT ship and shield logi, as such the nestor would fill a role no other ship can. |
Vulfen
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
152
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Posted - 2014.11.11 11:55:06 -
[22] - Quote
craidie wrote:Vulfen wrote:craidie wrote:Why not make the nestor be able to go through covop bridges, like the rest of the SOE ships? Decent enough idea, however this would mean giving it a cov ops cloak ability as well, as only ships that can use the cov ops cloak can go through the bridge. Personally i would like to see it get the jump drive ability, but not be able to light bridges or get a bonus to any cloak. I think it's a more than fair change if that was the only thing it received. as it would then make a viable replacement for the now shorter range carriers as logistics to Black Ops fleets, which currently rely on very short range RRs. Furthermore i think that considering that it has the ability to refit ships from, which is still it's best quality then it may open other doors for people. No, if they give a covops cloak to a battleship, it should be the black ops... i'm just suggesting that they could be bridged through BO bridges. The nestor has ridiculously low mass for a battleship and as such would take less fuel than bridging 2 recons. Currently there's only one logistics ship for black ops gangs, and that's an AT ship and shield logi, as such the nestor would fill a role no other ship can.
Yes i also think it should not have the cov ops cloak option. but in order to apply your idea it would have to have that trait otherwise it would be completely out of line with other ships that can use the cov ops bridge
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
1959
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Posted - 2014.11.11 12:03:44 -
[23] - Quote
Remove turret slots add covert ops cloak. Done!
+1
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Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
202
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Posted - 2014.11.11 12:25:17 -
[24] - Quote
Zmikund wrote:Another 0.0 tears about nestor, can u understand nestor was made for wormholers? not for your "im center of everything" gameplay ... Not empty quoting. You can't always have a carrier in W-space, but you can have a Nestor in any class thanks to its really low mass. Plus it's more mobile and less skill intensive.
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
565
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Posted - 2014.11.11 12:33:39 -
[25] - Quote
craidie wrote:Currently there's only one logistics ship for black ops gangs, and that's an AT ship and shield logi, as such the nestor would fill a role no other ship can.
There's also cloaky logi Tech 3's
Really, the Nestor needs to return to the drawing board. It doesn't fit in with the SoE line up. Even with the bonkers long list of bonuses it has.
To that end I would suggest moving into a new role like this:
Scrap the logistics role of the Nestor all together. Make it simply a BS with a SMA and a BLOPs style set of bonuses to cloaking (not fully covert). Consider giving the ship a covert jump drive and the ability to fit covert jump portal generator so the ship can actually support it's smaller ship classes by bridging them. This will mean giving the Astero and Stratios the ability to fit covert cyno generators (perhaps just the Astero).
Next, look at remote rep modules themselves. They're pretty much gimped on anything without a range bonus to them so I think a good idea would be to double the range of all remote rep modules and half the range bonuses on logi ships. This makes remote rep ships that aren't logi feasable again (I miss those RR BS battles). It also makes strategic cruiser logi fits feasable without making them stupid.
Then create an entirely new ship which is a Battlecruiser. This ship will be the support ship. It will have the logistics bonuses the current Nestor has and will be able to fit links. Why a battle cruiser? a few reasons... mobility, covert cloak, scan resolution, it's easier to balance.
The new Battlecruiser:
Eurydice GÇó Amarr BC skill bonuses: +4% to all armour resists per level Gallente BC skill: +10% drone damage and HP per level Role bonuses: 50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount 100% bonus to remote armor repairer range 50% bonus to medium energy turret optimal range Can fit warfare links
GÇó Slot layout: 7 H, 5 M, 5 L, 5 turrets, 0 launchers GÇó Fittings: 1495 PWG, 410 CPU GÇó Defense (shields / shield recharge time (s) / armor / hull) : 4500 / 1800s / 7500 / 6750 GÇó Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 3125 / 822 s / 3.8 GÇó Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 150 / 0.69 / 13000000 / 10.2 s GÇó Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 400 GÇó Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 260 / 7 GÇó Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric GÇó Signature radius: 260
It will only have the same offensive capabilities of the Stratios but it will be a little tankier and slower so giving it a Cov Ops cloak won't be that big of a deal.
Then we have ships with real purpose: Astero: Combat Scout Stratios: Combat Exploration Eurydice (Battlecruiser): Combat Support Nestor: Combat Mothership - Battleship |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
42
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Posted - 2014.11.11 12:33:50 -
[26] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:So once again CCP has broken the Nestor, with carriers now able to jump gates who in their right mind would choose to take a Nestor as a heavy logistics ship? No one....
The Nestor is once again in need of a re balance because of other ships simply doing it better at all times.
CCP please revisit the nestor and try this time to do a job that isn't going to break in 6 weeks time.
Feel free everyone to post your ideas on what you think the nestor should be re balanced with in this thread.
Please make a thread with an idea. Not call others to make the work 4 you.
Vote 4 close --> missing idea |
Vulfen
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
152
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Posted - 2014.11.11 13:09:21 -
[27] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:Vulfen wrote:So once again CCP has broken the Nestor, with carriers now able to jump gates who in their right mind would choose to take a Nestor as a heavy logistics ship? No one....
The Nestor is once again in need of a re balance because of other ships simply doing it better at all times.
CCP please revisit the nestor and try this time to do a job that isn't going to break in 6 weeks time.
Feel free everyone to post your ideas on what you think the nestor should be re balanced with in this thread. Please make a thread with an idea. Not call others to make the work 4 you. Vote 4 close --> missing idea
Try reading the entire thread.
Also my idea/recommendation is CCP should fix the ship, and not keep rebalancing it every 3 months because something else they have done broke it / made it pathetic. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1087
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:12:47 -
[28] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:As Zmikund said, it's useful in wormholes.
I'm more concerned about the Barghest. The point range bonuses are useful, but the general speediness and lack of tank aren't that useful. BSes need huge tank, pretty simple. You should try that boat out on SiSi, she is a really fast boat and if you fly her like a nano-pest, you can do cool things from far away. Oh and the speed IS the tank.
Yeah, but I could do it better in an orthrus. Or any kiting cruiser. I'm not going to fly something that is half-fast.
TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~
Youtube ~ Join Us
My ship fits
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
349
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Posted - 2014.11.11 18:44:04 -
[29] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Vulfen wrote:Just like shield and armour have variants (tanking module options) so should the different weapon platforms i.e drones, turrets and missiles. The point I was making is that if we start giving missiles things like tracking enhancers and tracking computers and all the other things that turrets have and missiles don't, then we're going to see missiles getting modules aimed specifically at disrupting them as well, which I don't think will go over well for continuing to use missiles.
My issue with missiles is that it takes more SP to max them out when you compare them to gunnery skills. From there, the gunnery support skills support 3 different racial weapons. This is while the support skills for missiles, only support missiles, and take longer to train.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
270
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Posted - 2014.11.11 19:37:16 -
[30] - Quote
I'd like to see the Nestor moved out of the battleship class altogether and moved in line with the Orca so that is does for exploration what the Orca does for mining.
Drop weapon hardpoints and bonuses. Drop combat drone bonuses in favor of repair and salvage drone bonuses. Keep RR bonuses. Keep exploration bonuses (or drop hacking/archeology bonuses and up scanning). Increase SMA to accommodate 2 cruisers and maybe a frigate. 10000 m3 fleet hangar. Uses new exploration-related gang links. Fiddle with the other stats as needed.
Optional: jump drive with bridge capabilities (covops, of course).
This would accommodate both the solo and small gang explorers nicely.
Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
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