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Jur Tissant
The TERRA Guardians of Serenity
291
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Posted - 2014.11.11 19:16:59 -
[31] - Quote
I am skeptical.
They compare it to a virtual Mos Eisley. But in Mos Eisley, you still watched your step for fear of getting shot if you pissed someone off. In EVE, this fear does not exist, or is severely mitigated.
It's like DayZ. In the real apocalypse, you can't trust anyone. In the virtual apocalypse, you can trust everyone - to shoot you for giggles. |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
8
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Posted - 2014.11.11 19:20:07 -
[32] - Quote
Nuela wrote:I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
I get what you're saying, but how will you know if the rewards are worth it? Thera not being worth it in this case simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Being completely risk averse does not lead to the best business decisions. Informed risk isn't what you are describing here. |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
246
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Posted - 2014.11.11 19:27:07 -
[33] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:Nuela wrote:I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
I get what you're saying, but how will you know if the rewards are worth it? Thera not being worth it in this case simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being completely risk averse does not lead to the best business decisions. Informed risk isn't what you are describing here.
Exactly. I will take risks...it's just that, In Eve, there is very little reward worth the extra risk.
True about the self-fulfilling prophesy but that is the Devs problem, not mine. I will try it out and give it a fair shake but if it doesn't pan out or look like it has potential to...I will stop.
Thinking about this some more, I'm not sure how this could work ---
Why would somebody build items or accumulate material and sell it here? Answer: Because it is worth the risk. This means however, that stuff sells for more here.
Why would somebody buy here instead of Jita despite it being risky to get it out. Answer: because stuff is cheaper here otherwise would buy in Jita.
Not sure how this paradox could work except that maybe one can't just easily ship in from Jita and use in the new space and this area is a market of its own. However, I don't see this from the description we have. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1220
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Posted - 2014.11.11 19:33:29 -
[34] - Quote
I see it as a lawless way stations for wormholers.
Depending on the non static connections and how many it could be a decent stop over for wh groups to sell and buy various gases and equipment they need without having to hope that the exits lead to stuff that's needed.
It could also become a hell hole that is perma camped by one group or another, or a good war zone.
Honestly, it would be nice to be a kinda free port, where no one stakes a claim and the market gets good put into it, and the people who pass through police it themselves... but I am sure a wh group will be claming it and going nbsi really quickly after launch.
I will visit it, and as has been said, most likely pop. lol
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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embrel
BamBam Inc. Outlanders United
203
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Posted - 2014.11.11 19:48:04 -
[35] - Quote
Nuela wrote:Jvpiter wrote:Nuela wrote:I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
I get what you're saying, but how will you know if the rewards are worth it? Thera not being worth it in this case simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being completely risk averse does not lead to the best business decisions. Informed risk isn't what you are describing here. Exactly. I will take risks...it's just that, In Eve, there is very little reward worth the extra risk. True about the self-fulfilling prophesy but that is the Devs problem, not mine. I will try it out and give it a fair shake but if it doesn't pan out or look like it has potential to...I will stop. Thinking about this some more, I'm not sure how this could work --- Why would somebody build items or accumulate material and sell it here? Answer: Because it is worth the risk. This means however, that stuff sells for more here. Why would somebody buy here instead of Jita. Answer: because stuff is cheaper here otherwise would buy in Jita. Not sure how this paradox could work except that maybe one can't just easily ship in from Jita and use in the new space and this area is a market of it's own. However, I don't see this from the description we have.
It might work out due to opportunity costs of hauling especially to backwater systems (from Jita), but I'd assume for the bulk, these opportunity cost will not be sufficient. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3247
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:04:58 -
[36] - Quote
It's not hisec. 'nuff said.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5655
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:07:50 -
[37] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough, but I'm surprised the major alliances are taking a keen interest in having a base of operations that has very easy static connections to empire, as well as a steady stream of wormholes to everywhere... especially considering the new limitations in play that limit fleet movement via Titan bridge.
It would be entirely too easy for an alliance to get their assets camped into such a place. There's a reason that NPC null is either used only for deployments, or as a last resort when all sov is lost. Granted, the recent removal of hobojamming makes this only slightly more difficult, it's still far from impossible. Anyone with enemies could very quickly find themselves hellcamped into that station. It makes far more sense to just use your own sov space, and take full advantage of wormholes within your regions of control. Fair points, although a few other factors may come into play. We don't know how many stations will be in Thera. Considering the sheer size of the system there could be a LOT. We don't know what the system mechanics will be like, frankly at this point we don't even know if bubbles will work there. All we know is that CCP doesn't seem to think that moving ships and materials in and out of system will be difficult (or at least not impossible), and that station camping doesn't appear to worry them overly much either... which might indicate that these "unique" and unannounced system mechanics (or environmental peculiarities if you prefer) will make such activities much more difficult. If trade and manufacturing can flourish there, one would think that a military presence could as well. We really won't know a lot until we get facts on: Where the static wormholes end up. How many statics there are. How many wandering wormholes show up, and how often. How big the system is How many NPC stations are there, and how far apart. What are the new and unique environmental factors in play.
I would like to add to your list:
How much mass the wormholes would handle (would they be in accord with where they link or would these be "special cases"?)
I still think this is more of an experiment and I gotta say I like it when CCP experiments. That's a sign they might have clubbed their marketing department like baby seals and carted them off (a good thing).
How players use these new systems and the overall result might even drive future changes to the game so there lies another reason to have interest in this.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
650
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:16:02 -
[38] - Quote
Nobody 'lives' in Jita except maybe Alts.
Thera will be Arena PvP until the node crashes with 600 interceptors on a bubble infested wormhole.
I'm not saying don't do it. I, like others just see the direction it will take because certain player groups in EVE are all about the I-win button. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5970
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:16:19 -
[39] - Quote
Nuela wrote:Jvpiter wrote:Nuela wrote:I will definitely be there and taking huge risks *IF* the rewards are worth it. If not, forget it. Based on prior history with the devs in this game...the rewards probably won't even match hisec missioning after factoring in losses in time and material, let alone to make it worth my while to provide content to gankers. However, if the rewards are there...I will be providing plenty of targets for people to catch/blow up.
I get what you're saying, but how will you know if the rewards are worth it? Thera not being worth it in this case simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being completely risk averse does not lead to the best business decisions. Informed risk isn't what you are describing here. Exactly. I will take risks...it's just that, In Eve, there is very little reward worth the extra risk. True about the self-fulfilling prophesy but that is the Devs problem, not mine. I will try it out and give it a fair shake but if it doesn't pan out or look like it has potential to...I will stop. Thinking about this some more, I'm not sure how this could work --- Why would somebody build items or accumulate material and sell it here? Answer: Because it is worth the risk. This means however, that stuff sells for more here. Why would somebody buy here instead of Jita despite it being risky to get it out. Answer: because stuff is cheaper here otherwise would buy in Jita. Not sure how this paradox could work except that maybe one can't just easily ship in from Jita and use in the new space and this area is a market of its own. However, I don't see this from the description we have. My money is on this: If there is one area that is certain to not have ready access to Thera, it will be Jita.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5971
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:23:55 -
[40] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Nobody 'lives' in Jita except maybe Alts.
Thera will be Arena PvP until the node crashes with 600 interceptors on a bubble infested wormhole.
I'm not saying don't do it. I, like others just see the direction it will take because certain player groups in EVE are all about the I-win button. Well, Thera has one incentive for people to live there that Jita will never have... an unending supply of unsuspecting targets right on the other side of the wormholes that open and close constantly.
If nothing else it is the ideal base of operations for a group that enjoys pirating and raiding.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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somedudeinaship
Star Whorz
42
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:28:07 -
[41] - Quote
Park lots of smartbombing Augoror's on the station and sit and wait? |
HeXxploiT
Little Red X
51
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Posted - 2014.11.11 20:39:24 -
[42] - Quote
The only way I can envision this system working is if there are a bare MINIMUM of 20 entrances into this wormhole and preferably fifty. Very few small groups would actually run sites in this system. This would be limited to larger corps/alliances that can actually provide security. The only way around this is if the site is going to be 1000AU across so it takes forever to actually find people with normal probes. Individuals and small groups who decide to reside here will be dependent on running sites in neighboring systems. This is a problem because if there are a limited amount of exits they'll have to be fitted to get through camps but if they're fitted to get through camps then they won't be fitted to run sites. Having dozens of entrances could fix this issue however as all entrances are not likely to be camped.
Really we need to know more before we can gauge just how popular this system will be for small groups & solo folk. |
Jon Joringer
Zero-K
146
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:00:50 -
[43] - Quote
This is definitely interesting. We'll have to see how it plays out, but it could be an amazing place to call home. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2352
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:10:19 -
[44] - Quote
Another "thunderdome", further perpetuating the systemic failure of CCP to create meaningful PvP blended seamlessly with basic income generation.
I mean, neat idea from a pure brawling perspective, but just more of the same in the grand scheme of things.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
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Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
391
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:24:26 -
[45] - Quote
I see Thera working under very specific circumstances - if WH corps are able to use it as a resupply depot.
This would mean a fair amount of C1-C6 connections from Thera, so that everyone in WH space can be fairly confident that they'll hook up with Thera once month. If that happens, Thera becomes the go-to place to sell T3 components/sleeper loot and the like, and to buy things like ammo, fuel, and other necessaries to bring back into the WH.
This also assumes that you'll be able to use the stations in Thera. Meaning CCP would likely have to add heavy station guns that shoot at anyone committing an aggressive act, solar effects that prevent the use of bubbles . . . kinda like W-space "lite." Otherwise, I don't see it being convenient enough to get established, and instead it'll just devolve into a system that random corps periodically move to for cheap kills because they can't handle W-space without 1) a static K-space connection, 2) station services, and 3) no need to fuel a POS.
I hope for the former, I expect the later.
I am not an alt of Chribba.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2352
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:25:41 -
[46] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:I see Thera working....
Love it when someone else summarizes my thoughts more or less exactly, and saves me the trouble.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
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Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
270
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Posted - 2014.11.11 21:58:28 -
[47] - Quote
I reckon CCP will pull it off and Thera will be a resounding success. They must have some juicy content planned if they are calling it "Jita without Concord". I expect something in that system will entice large numbers of players to go there. |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1044
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Posted - 2014.11.11 22:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
I do hope that once it gets released on Sisi for testing that people will abuse the hell out of it, showcasing all the weak spots & such they can improve on to make it a dangerous system, without turning it into a slaughterfest system.
I see two things at least to make it work: -No bubbles (else people will cage in the stations if the system ever takes off, and thereby nullify it) -Powerful station guns, to prevent station games: while undock shouldn't be 100% danger free, it should at least not be a fire at will zone.
If people/CCP want to see it turn into a new Jita, traders have to be able to move in not only modules & resources, but also ships in large quantities & acceptable security (meaning it can be dangerous, but never too dangerous to offset profits, else there's no use setting up a tradepost there)
All in all, looking forward what it'll be.
Newly discovered sleeper sites contain advanced weapon blueprints!
The return of Dr Hilen Tukoss, Arek'Jaalan project leader
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Wendrika Hydreiga
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2014.11.11 22:53:24 -
[49] - Quote
More to the point, what sort of corp will own Thera? And can we do missions for them?
Here's hoping SOE owns Thera. It would only be fitting. |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
214
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Posted - 2014.11.11 23:07:36 -
[50] - Quote
Thera sounds like a very big step. There are a number of big steps afoot in CCP. The question for me is in which direction are we walking.
Please let this be part of a much bigger picture. |
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1400
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Posted - 2014.11.11 23:33:55 -
[51] - Quote
Without ganking (CONCORD) and scamming (local chat) it's not even close to Jita. So far nothing interesting enough to move. |
Hal Morsh
Exodus Mining Corp
184
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Posted - 2014.11.11 23:34:24 -
[52] - Quote
I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone (figure that one out).
I'm also curious to see if pirates decide to camp wormholes and try a toll system for neutrals. Wouldn't that be cool? Then again what am I thinking, they'll probably kill everything that can't kill them, or run away.
If the system is vast and entrances numerous. This could go very well, otherwise it'll be a glorified low-sec.
I enjoy a good session of mining.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
214
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Posted - 2014.11.11 23:58:03 -
[53] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone
I do not understand your point here.
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Hal Morsh
Exodus Mining Corp
184
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Posted - 2014.11.12 00:03:11 -
[54] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone I do not understand your point here.
Local, gone poof.
I enjoy a good session of mining.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5971
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Posted - 2014.11.12 00:11:17 -
[55] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Without ganking (CONCORD), scamming (local chat), cheap trade hub - it's not even close to Jita. And everything is behind EVE scanning mini-game - which I despise.
So far nothing interesting enough to move. Ganking doesn't require Concords presence, even suicide ganking doesn't necessarily require Concord to provide you with instant death for killing a target... and I see no reason why there won't be scamming in local.
Local exists, you simply don't show up in local unless you choose to speak in local.
I do agree that the need to frequently use scan probes will be difficult for those of us that suck at it.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
215
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Posted - 2014.11.12 00:13:19 -
[56] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone I do not understand your point here. Local, gone poof.
Yes that has been clarified a few times. How does that make afk cloakers more dangerous?
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Hal Morsh
Exodus Mining Corp
184
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Posted - 2014.11.12 00:22:30 -
[57] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:I see afk cloakers becoming more dangerous in this system, and at the same time becoming a non existent issue to everyone I do not understand your point here. Local, gone poof. Yes that has been clarified a few times. How does that make afk cloakers more dangerous?
Actually it makes intel not instant. But you can't even D-scan them. actually I guess they aren't more dangerous, just not visible in local meaning no one complains. Excuse my derp.
I enjoy a good session of mining.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3261
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Posted - 2014.11.12 02:00:18 -
[58] - Quote
I'm picturing something maybe 50 million AU across with what? 150 stations? At least? I mean that is at the bare minimum what it would take. I could see living out of it. I'm going to give it a crack, for sure. Really to me it sounds like all of Fountain in one system plus you're in a wormhole. Seems like a lot of fun... and solves pretty much every problem with trying to be a pirate operating out of a wormhole. There will be pirates. Oh yes. ...but also wormhole ratters, some industrialists (full station services), campers of various kinds, hard-core PvPers, really crazy miners (bring support!), perhaps even mission runners. Depending on the design which we know very little about, you might even see every alliance finding a strategic advantage in keeping this or that fleet in the system. Nowhere else in EvE could you have so many players with so many totally different objectives (if any) in one system.
Really, I think most EvE players will have more reason to be in Thera than Jita.
This begs the question, how many pods we talking?
I'm not worried about PvPers, I'm worried about lag. How are they going to do this if there's 5k or 10k pods bopping around?
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
5971
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Posted - 2014.11.12 02:58:09 -
[59] - Quote
I've seen some things here and there that would suggest they have been taking precautions for the expected lag issues, but nothing concrete. Dedicated node perhaps?
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Ayni Naskingar
Axolotl Armageddon
2
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Posted - 2014.11.12 03:05:05 -
[60] - Quote
Gogela wrote:I'm picturing something maybe 50 million AU across
u wot m8 ? Do you even realize how big 50 million AU is? At 3AU/s warpspeed it would take like 96 days 10 hours 48 minutes 53.33 seconds to warp half the system |
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