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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.12 11:37:22 -
[1] - Quote
For those who have been there, might be aware of non FW players getting involved in the FW mechanics. This might be as innocent as an accidental encounter or as blatant as farming the plex sites for kills.
They might even be mercs working for or have a cosy relationship with the enemy.
Do they receive a faction hit for destroying a FW player ?
Can you view a non FW players faction standing ?
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
25
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Posted - 2014.11.12 13:35:34 -
[2] - Quote
You only get a standings drop to an NPC corp if you kill an FW player belonging to one. There are no standings implications for killing a PC Corp FWer.
No, you cannot view standings of another pilot, just their relative standing to you and yours. |
Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.12 13:49:46 -
[3] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
You only get a standings drop to an NPC corp if you kill an FW player belonging to one. There are no standings implications for killing a PC Corp FWer.
No, you cannot view standings of another pilot, just their relative standing to you and yours.
A FW player cannot be in a NPC corp other than the FW Corp.
I was on about faction standing not corporation standing. The most that can happen with corporation standing is that you can't use their agents.
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
26
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Posted - 2014.11.12 13:58:59 -
[4] - Quote
Correct. NPC corpies are solo FWers.
You do not have faction standings implications for killing another player, but killing NPCs will come with a faction standings hit.
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:49:08 -
[5] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
Correct. NPC corpies are solo FWers.
If you are in a standard NPC corp, you must leave it to join FW
If you are in a player corp you must leave it to join FW
Exception being if the whole player corp signs up to FW
So the only NPC corp that a FW player can belong to is a FW department.
These four
Amarr: 24th Imperial Crusade Caldari: State Protectorate Gallente: Federal Defence Union Minmatar: Tribal Liberation Force
You can't be a FW player in for example
Center for Advanced Studies Pator Tech School Brutor Tribe Amarr Civil Service Deep Core Mining Inc Lai Dai Roden Shipyards Impetus Freedom Extension
Or any of the other multitude of NPC corps
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6515
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Posted - 2014.11.12 20:08:53 -
[6] - Quote
Ah Nevil... still having trouble with reading comprehension.
Neutral players will lose standings against the NPC FW corp if they attack an FW player who is a part of it.
Due to the nature of the standings mechanics, these players will also lose some standings with the parent Faction... but only in very small percentages (see: it is negligible unless you make it a full time job).
None of this applies if a person is in a Player corporation (no standings hit, no problem). Hell... FW corporations can declare war on each other within the same militia. No standings hit there either.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.12 20:40:53 -
[7] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Ah Nevil... still having trouble with reading comprehension.
Neutral players will lose standings against the NPC FW corp if they attack an FW player who is a part of it.
Check the OP question mark,
Good answer.
So that part of the mechanism is working,
How do FW players know if a neutral player lurking in a system has a low standing with the NPC FW corp ?
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1821
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Posted - 2014.11.12 20:47:07 -
[8] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:How do FW players know if a neutral player lurking in a system has a low standing with the NPC FW corp ?
They don't. Standings (FW and otherwise) are not public.
ISD LackOfFaith
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
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Xercodo
Vector Galactic Did he say Jump
3834
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Posted - 2014.11.12 21:12:13 -
[9] - Quote
How many times do we need to tell you that we know already?
An NPC FW person is someone in those 4 corps, and that's what he's been saying the whole time.
The Drake is a Lie
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.12 21:50:23 -
[10] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Standings (FW and otherwise) are not public.
I get the fact that members only and public are the same thing because someone would just sign up an Alt and broadcast everything on a site somewhere but at the same time what use are standings if people in the corp don't know what they are ?
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Xercodo
Vector Galactic Did he say Jump
3835
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Posted - 2014.11.13 20:29:03 -
[11] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Standings (FW and otherwise) are not public.
I get the fact that members only and public are the same thing because someone would just sign up an Alt and broadcast everything on a site somewhere but at the same time what use are standings if people in the corp don't know what they are ?
Aside from a player corp that needs corp-wide average standings to get into FW, what does the corp care what your standings are?
Also, aside from the "show composition" button for a corporate standing to an NPC entity a player corp doesn't know what anyone's standings are, so just signing up an alt is useless.
Since you no longer need standing to make a highsec POS the only reason why a corp or alliance would care is to join FW, otherwise standings are pretty useless to know for anyone besides yourself.
The Drake is a Lie
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.13 23:26:08 -
[12] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:
Since you no longer need standing to make a highsec POS the only reason why a corp or alliance would care is to join FW, otherwise standings are pretty useless to know for anyone besides yourself.
Player corporation standings are useful.
If a player has killed a lot of members of the corp you are in then there is good reason for members to be on guard against him.
This completely fails if you don''t let your corp members know about it which is why you can set corporation standings.
So why do NPC corporations do something so stupid as to keep them secret ?
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Steppa Musana
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2014.11.14 04:13:01 -
[13] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Xercodo wrote:
Since you no longer need standing to make a highsec POS the only reason why a corp or alliance would care is to join FW, otherwise standings are pretty useless to know for anyone besides yourself.
Player corporation standings are useful. If a player has killed a lot of members of the corp you are in then there is good reason for members to be on guard against him. This completely fails if you don''t let your corp members know about it which is why you can set corporation standings. So why do NPC corporations do something so stupid as to keep them secret ? Well it might not accurately represent the risk. As an example a FW player in enemy space being shot down at high-sec trade hubs by a non-FW player who's shooting all criminals in sight. That non-FW player is not necessarily a risk to that FW player's corp while in friendly low-sec space, he might in fact never fight in low at all. A human player is needed for specifics else standings like you're mentioning become arbitrary on some level. |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
76
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Posted - 2014.11.14 04:20:23 -
[14] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Player corporation standings are useful.
If a player has killed a lot of members of the corp you are in then there is good reason for members to be on guard against him.
This completely fails if you don''t let your corp members know about it which is why you can set corporation standings.
So why do NPC corporations do something so stupid as to keep them secret ?
If you want the delightful feature of corp standings as a guide in Local, then join a player corporation. The last thing we need is to dilute this feature and grant it to an NPC corp.
And yes, yes, a FW NPC corp. I'm looking for an eyeroll icon. eyeroll.gif. Did that work? Oh, forget it.
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.14 14:57:52 -
[15] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote: Well it might not accurately represent the risk. As an example a FW player in enemy space being shot down at high-sec trade hubs by a non-FW player who's shooting all criminals in sight. That non FW player is not necessarily a risk to that FW player's corp while in friendly low-sec space, he might in fact never fight in low at all. A human player is needed for specifics else standings like you're mentioning become arbitrary on some level.
I'm not sure you take a standing hit for shooting a criminal, is it going to be a huge standing hit ? in any case is that going to happen 5 times a day from the same pilot ?
You obviously haven't seen it, it's just ringing the dinner bell for a slaughter of players with less than a year experience. They know where then FW ship needs to go, how long the ship is going to have to sit there like a duck shoot, they even know what the maximum size of ship is going to be in each plex.
Yes you can have your own corp but how does that solve the problem ? You have hundreds of neutrals doing this because it is the easiest way to get kills. I use and have player corps, I see no desperate need to nerf NPC corps. And who is to say it isn't an enemy faction alt being used to prevent any warning.
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Serene Repose
1622
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Posted - 2014.11.14 15:04:43 -
[16] - Quote
I can tell this is a problem that must come up a lot! The implications are...implications! *gets out magnifying glass*
Something should be done! Or, not!
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.14 15:19:57 -
[17] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:I can tell this is a problem that must come up a lot! The implications are...implications! *gets out magnifying glass* Something should be done! Or, not!
Yes you should be able to see the standing, that way known enemy mercenaries and recurring soldier murders are noted by people who are on the receiving end and not some NPC AI CEO that keeps it to himself.
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.15 01:25:56 -
[18] - Quote
You have personal standing on overview maybe you could just have an option to exchange that for corporation standing.
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.16 15:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
OK, I guess people are not understanding this because when you go to low sec it is every man/woman/green furry alien for themselves. There are players out in low sec doing industry and lawful activities and don't farm plexes, if FW players just shoot everyone on sight they will become outlaws.
I got the impression that isn't quite what the developers had in mind for everyone that joins FW but if your casualties from neutrals is 500% greater than your casualties from the enemy is that going to continue operating as a militia ?
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
426
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:02:27 -
[20] - Quote
No, we understand what you're asking for. You are asking for free intel. "Point out my targets for me!" If someone is a bad, bad person you don't want to manually add him with Terrible Standing, or use Zkill, or use Pirate's Friend, or be in a PC Corp with an extensive Standings list.
No, you just want free intel so that when you Show Info on a pilot it will automatically tell you what that pilot generally does. Or, you want it in Local too, I can't tell.
The only in-game intel available to you is Sec Status. For the rest you actually have to figure out what that person is up to by observing their actions, identifying their ship, etc.
If you are wandering around with a rifle and a bayonet, nothing in existence will point out enemy targets to you. You have to suss that out yourself by using common sense and your experience.
P.S. PC Corp standings, editable by corp or alliance Diplomats or Directors, *are* available in Local along with Sec Status, Bounty, etc.
Here is a thread discussing the change from visible to invisible of the information you want in Show Info: http://eve-search.com/thread/1513631-0/page/all
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:08:34 -
[21] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
The only in-game intel available to you is Sec Status. For the rest you actually have to figure out what that person is up to by observing their actions, identifying their ship, etc.
Every player corp makes it's standings available to it's members so no the rest of you don't have to all do that.
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
427
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:21:06 -
[22] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jvpiter wrote:
The only in-game intel available to you is Sec Status. For the rest you actually have to figure out what that person is up to by observing their actions, identifying their ship, etc.
Every player corp makes it's standings available to it's members so no the rest of you don't have to all do that.
Didn't I say that already?
Jvpiter wrote:P.S. PC Corp standings, editable by corp or alliance Diplomats or Directors, *are* available in Local along with Sec Status, Bounty, etc.
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:29:09 -
[23] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jvpiter wrote:
The only in-game intel available to you is Sec Status. For the rest you actually have to figure out what that person is up to by observing their actions, identifying their ship, etc.
Every player corp makes it's standings available to it's members so no the rest of you don't have to all do that. Didn't I say that already? Jvpiter wrote:P.S. PC Corp standings, editable by corp or alliance Diplomats or Directors, *are* available in Local along with Sec Status, Bounty, etc.
FW players are not able to do that because they are split into a combination of PC's and NPC Corp. You can't have an alliance that includes the players in NPC corps. It is also questionable as to whether you want FW to be one big fat player alliance.
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
427
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:41:14 -
[24] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
FW players are not able to do that because they are split into a combination of PC's and NPC Corp. You can't have an alliance that includes the players in NPC corps. It is also questionable as to whether you want FW to be one big fat player alliance.
You *do* understand that the PC corp standings results from some other human being creating and curating that list?
Those standings are identical to setting people to Excellent , Terrible, etc. standing in your own personal contact list.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
52
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:44:08 -
[25] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
FW players are not able to do that because they are split into a combination of PC's and NPC Corp. You can't have an alliance that includes the players in NPC corps. It is also questionable as to whether you want FW to be one big fat player alliance.
one of the reasons we (the frogs) are stomping on the squids is because of the cooperation between almost all of the GalMil corps.
we have shared comms. and open fleets open (duh!) to all GalMil pilots.
read this article about our Space Jesus
Just Add Water
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Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
248
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Posted - 2014.11.16 16:54:32 -
[26] - Quote
People run security missions and if you take on ones that put you up against another factions' navy, you will lose standing with them.
This does not mean that such players are an enemy (WT) to the players who signed up for FW. They are still neutrals and like any neutral they can not shoot you or be shot at by you in high sec without concord showing up. As for low sec, you or the neutral (whichever shoots first), will take a sec status hit. The game does provide indication for players with negative sec status.
As for adjusting standings, you can adjust your own personal standing toward individuals/corps/alliances all you like. If you find certain neutrals in the FW systems going after allies in your FW, then link their name and state as such in FW chat. It's then up each player that reads it to use the intel as they see fit. |
Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.16 17:32:32 -
[27] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:People run security missions and if you take on ones that put you up against another factions' navy, you will lose standing with them.
This does not mean that such players are an enemy (WT) to the players who signed up for FW. They are still neutrals and like any neutral they can not shoot you or be shot at by you in high sec without concord showing up. As for low sec, you or the neutral (whichever shoots first), will take a sec status hit. The game does provide indication for players with negative sec status.
As for adjusting standings, you can adjust your own personal standing toward individuals/corps/alliances all you like. If you find certain neutrals in the FW systems going after allies in your FW, then link their name and state as such in FW chat. It's then up each player that reads it to use the intel as they see fit.
I have brought that subject up before, I think faction standings and standings of the FW Corp are separate so for instance if you kill NPC Amarr ships in security missions, it doesn't have a direct affect on your standing with 24th Crusade FW corp. If I am wrong about that someone please correct me.
Jvpiter wrote:
You *do* understand that the PC corp standings results from some other human being creating and curating that list?
Yes but the management of FW is NPC, it isn't a players job to organise a 1000 player NPC corp that provides no information to it's members about who is killing them.
There is a theory that all people who play Eve originate from one planet thought to have been called Earth.
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.19 21:20:33 -
[28] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
No, we understand what you're asking for. You are asking for free intel. "Point out my targets for me!" If someone is a bad, bad person you don't want to manually add him with Terrible Standing, or use Zkill, or use Pirate's Friend, or be in a PC Corp with an extensive Standings list.
Well you could see it like that but also you could see it as an exploit of the NPC failing to provide even the simplest things for it's members who they throw into low sec and expect them to fight someone when they haven't told them who it is.
C++ = D
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
1238
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Posted - 2014.11.19 21:42:38 -
[29] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Well you could see it like that but also you could see it as an exploit of the NPC failing to provide even the simplest things for it's members who they throw into low sec and expect them to fight someone when they haven't told them who it is.
The sort of free intel you are looking for does not exist for PC Corp or NPC Corp players.
If you want it back as a feature, you should check the thread I linked earlier to see how it works, and then write up a proposal in F&I to propose the mechanics changes you want.
Call me Joe. I am a humble worshipper-servant of Nami Kumamato.
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Nevil Oscillator
57
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Posted - 2014.11.19 22:22:39 -
[30] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
The sort of free intel you are looking for does not exist for PC Corp or NPC Corp players.
If you want it back as a feature, you should check the thread I linked earlier to see how it used to work, and then write up a proposal in F&I to propose the mechanics changes you want.
On the contrary it does exist, standings is all I am looking for.
C++ = D
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