Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:24:51 -
[1] - Quote
I think it was back in retribution that the ancillary armor module was released, the module its self is the amour variant of the ancillary shield booster. As an armor pilot I love this module, I use it all the time its great for fitting ships because of its low power grid and CPU requirements.
But there is one GIGANTIC issue with module, you can only fit one in your ship unlike the shield variant where you can fit two. As an armor pilot who like to solo in null sec (yes using armor for solo is a thing) being able to fit a second module would be great. If your thinking it may be over powered, it simply wont be because of the reload time alone would get you killed.
The shield variant of the module makes me extremely jealous of the shield pilots. Please CCP I beg you from the bottom of my hollow heart unnerf this module PLEASE.
My proposal is simple-
Give players the ability to fit at least two of these modules
CCP feel free to nerf the charge amount if you feel it to be necessary
P.S.
I would really like some DEV input on this minor issue |
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:25:40 -
[2] - Quote
BUMP |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
949
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 14:56:38 -
[3] - Quote
there were many good alternatives offered at the time .. they just ignored them it seems .. some changes i would like - nanite skills too affect the AAR . so less paste used 25% at lv5 of NO skills and 100% rep amount at lv5 NI skill - reduce nanite rep amount too compensate. so 1.5x not 3x - slightly reduce cycle time and cap usage or make armour rep every 1 seconds of its cycle instead of all at the end - reduce reload timer on nanite paste too more like 30 seconds or less
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
|
Gosti Kahanid
GANOR Deep Space Explorers GANOR INC.
70
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 15:32:38 -
[4] - Quote
I think the AAR is fine as it is. The ASB doesn-¦t rep more than a normal Shield Booster but the AAR reps more than a normal Armor Repair. If you were able to fit more of them, then your active tank would get way to strong, especially when used on a ship with a bonus to active repping.
But I-¦m not against a small buff of the reload, especially on the small one. If you look an a graph you-¦ll see that the small one is barely justified because of it long reload compared to its cicle time http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg |
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 15:48:23 -
[5] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:I think the AAR is fine as it is. The ASB doesn-¦t rep more than a normal Shield Booster but the AAR reps more than a normal Armor Repair. If you were able to fit more of them, then your active tank would get way to strong, especially when used on a ship with a bonus to active repping. But I-¦m not against a small buff of the reload, especially on the small one. If you look an a graph you-¦ll see that the small one is barely justified because of it long reload compared to its cicle time http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg
The thing is multiple AAR's would grant more options to players in a combat situation. It actually makes bait tanking a possibility and certain cap intensive ships (amarr) would become more effective because of it.
The armor repair amount frankly could be nerfed (only by a tiny amount please) as a trade off I would like to fit more of these guys to my ship. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10577
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 15:50:22 -
[6] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:I think the AAR is fine as it is. The ASB doesn-¦t rep more than a normal Shield Booster but the AAR reps more than a normal Armor Repair.
And unlike an Ancillary shield mod it uses cap, most notably.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
227
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 15:55:19 -
[7] - Quote
It's pretty fine tbh, what I'd like is the T2 and faction versions.
|
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 16:04:42 -
[8] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:It's pretty fine tbh, what I'd like is the T2 and faction versions.
like I said the ability to fit more of these would nice" I am an extremely jealous Amarr pilot who looks at a ancillary shield booster with certain distain.
No sir its not fine atm we armor pilots must be on the same playing field as the shield pilots when it comes to solo. |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
844
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 16:11:51 -
[9] - Quote
There is another difference not brought up here. People almost always fit an oversized asb to their ship. You can't do that with a aar. Also, a persons hold can only hold so many cap batteries, while a aar can pretty much hold thousands of repair paste. With that said, since people have to fit a normal sized aar, they usually fit a comparable ship with good rigs vs the multiple powergrid boosting rigs and compromised ship fitting.
Do they work, you betcha, but aar's aren't in a bad place.
If there were to be a change, it would be the reload timer, but it's not really needed.
Yaay!!!!
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
450
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 16:44:32 -
[10] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:It's pretty fine tbh, what I'd like is the T2 and faction versions.
No!
You do not want a tech2 version because moon-poo sec is just looking for more stuff that need moon-poo to build. Did you ever wonder who actually does pay the sov bills and whatnot nullsec lawyers are whining about?
signature
|
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
201
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 16:49:03 -
[11] - Quote
the solution is simple if you want a powerful active tank go shield if you want a powerful buffer go armor and if you are a real man you go hull |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1669
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 16:59:28 -
[12] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:I think the AAR is fine as it is. The ASB doesn-¦t rep more than a normal Shield Booster but the AAR reps more than a normal Armor Repair. If you were able to fit more of them, then your active tank would get way to strong, especially when used on a ship with a bonus to active repping. But I-¦m not against a small buff of the reload, especially on the small one. If you look an a graph you-¦ll see that the small one is barely justified because of it long reload compared to its cicle time http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg The ASB does rep more than its counterparts in the same size category.
However some pointers that show the difference between the two. Different strengths and different playstyles.
- ASB can fit as many as needed at once - ASB uses cap boosters while AAR uses cap, however part of the reasoning behind this is a ship with AAR could fit cap boosters at the same time to cover the cap cost, and often have extra cap from booster compared to how the AAR uses (depends on which charges you use. Cap booster does not effect overall armor tank of ship similar to ASB. - shield mods are more cpu intensive than armor while armor are more power hungry than shield, so it comes down to the weapons you are using - its hard to compare the amount of hp repped to size, since the medium shield reppers repair less, but large ones can repair more. in some circumstances AAR repairs as much as the up-sized shield equivalent (non-ancillary). 1 med AAR repairs about as much as 1 large T2 shield booster. - ASB benefits from shield boost amps and no rigs, while armor has no module and a rig.
The hardest thing to compare is the difference in module sizes. For instance, basic stats on T2 shield and armor repairers: Med shield - 104 Large shield - 276 Med armor - 368 Large armor - 920 X-large shield - 1050
So there is also a huge imbalance between different the biggest shield and armor mods and their next lowest counterpart. All things considered both lines are due a rebalance due to their haphazrd patterns and no clear lineage.
So essentially they're all imbalanced. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
105
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 17:50:16 -
[13] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Gosti Kahanid wrote:I think the AAR is fine as it is. The ASB doesn-¦t rep more than a normal Shield Booster but the AAR reps more than a normal Armor Repair. If you were able to fit more of them, then your active tank would get way to strong, especially when used on a ship with a bonus to active repping. But I-¦m not against a small buff of the reload, especially on the small one. If you look an a graph you-¦ll see that the small one is barely justified because of it long reload compared to its cicle time http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg The ASB does rep more than its counterparts in the same size category. However some pointers that show the difference between the two. Different strengths and different playstyles. - ASB can fit as many as needed at once - ASB uses cap boosters while AAR uses cap, however part of the reasoning behind this is a ship with AAR could fit cap boosters at the same time to cover the cap cost, and often have extra cap from booster compared to how the AAR uses (depends on which charges you use. Cap booster does not effect overall armor tank of ship similar to ASB. - shield mods are more cpu intensive than armor while armor are more power hungry than shield, so it comes down to the weapons you are using - its hard to compare the amount of hp repped to size, since the medium shield reppers repair less, but large ones can repair more. in some circumstances AAR repairs as much as the up-sized shield equivalent (non-ancillary). 1 med AAR repairs about as much as 1 large T2 shield booster. - ASB benefits from shield boost amps and no rigs, while armor has no module and a rig. The hardest thing to compare is the difference in module sizes. For instance, basic stats on T2 shield and armor repairers: Med shield - 104 Large shield - 276 Med armor - 368 Large armor - 920 X-large shield - 1050 So there is also a huge imbalance between different the biggest shield and armor mods and their next lowest counterpart. All things considered both lines are due a rebalance due to their haphazrd patterns and no clear lineage. So essentially they're all imbalanced.
please if your going to look at base stats include the cycle time of the mods and cap usage. |
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 19:02:25 -
[14] - Quote
Cycle times are one extremely important thing to consider, it can mean the difference between life and death in a PvP situation. Even if you have insane rep amounts it wont mean anything if you cant cycle in time to save your armor.
Plus with only one AAR compared to two ASB. The two ASB will always be better than the one. Putting two ASB allows you to cover the gaps in time to rep your self. Essentially you cover your weak time holes faster with two rep mods. |
Catherine Laartii
Perkone Caldari State
380
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 19:56:52 -
[15] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:The ASB doesn-¦t rep more than a normal Shield Booster
Incorrect. With boosters loaded the ASB reps quite a bit more than even the t2 and some deadspace reps. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1669
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 20:18:06 -
[16] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Rowells wrote:Gosti Kahanid wrote:I think the AAR is fine as it is. The ASB doesn-¦t rep more than a normal Shield Booster but the AAR reps more than a normal Armor Repair. If you were able to fit more of them, then your active tank would get way to strong, especially when used on a ship with a bonus to active repping. But I-¦m not against a small buff of the reload, especially on the small one. If you look an a graph you-¦ll see that the small one is barely justified because of it long reload compared to its cicle time http://i.imgur.com/RoF5Aj4.jpg The ASB does rep more than its counterparts in the same size category. However some pointers that show the difference between the two. Different strengths and different playstyles. - ASB can fit as many as needed at once - ASB uses cap boosters while AAR uses cap, however part of the reasoning behind this is a ship with AAR could fit cap boosters at the same time to cover the cap cost, and often have extra cap from booster compared to how the AAR uses (depends on which charges you use. Cap booster does not effect overall armor tank of ship similar to ASB. - shield mods are more cpu intensive than armor while armor are more power hungry than shield, so it comes down to the weapons you are using - its hard to compare the amount of hp repped to size, since the medium shield reppers repair less, but large ones can repair more. in some circumstances AAR repairs as much as the up-sized shield equivalent (non-ancillary). 1 med AAR repairs about as much as 1 large T2 shield booster. - ASB benefits from shield boost amps and no rigs, while armor has no module and a rig. The hardest thing to compare is the difference in module sizes. For instance, basic stats on T2 shield and armor repairers: Med shield - 104 Large shield - 276 Med armor - 368 Large armor - 920 X-large shield - 1050 So there is also a huge imbalance between different the biggest shield and armor mods and their next lowest counterpart. All things considered both lines are due a rebalance due to their haphazrd patterns and no clear lineage. So essentially they're all imbalanced. please if your going to look at base stats include the cycle time of the mods and cap usage. I was having difficulty deciding whether or not to include skills into that equation. for example the large modules.
Large shield 69hp/s (no skills to sffect) 36GJ/s Large Armor 81.8hp/s (repair systems V) 36GJ/s Large armor 61hp/s (no skills) 26GJ/s
theres a lot more in play than just base stats, but you can still see how out of whack their differences are. There is no healthy reference point.
And then there is buffer vs. active Capless EANM vs. overheating AIF Oversized buffer mods vs. oversized repair mods Rep a begining of cycle vs. end of cycle
Many of these things have to do with gameplay styles how how they fit. Different tradeoffs between the modules and similar.
Yes the two ASB are better than 1, and why should they be? Shield is the premier burst tanking mod, however it requires 2 of them to outclass the armor mod?
For reference: LASB 98hp/s LAAR 138hp/s (+29% Compared to LASB) 2xLASB 196hp/s (+30% compared to LAAR)
So double fitting the module gives you a 30% bonus? Sacrificing that fitting room and slots to get the advantage shield is supposed to have?
Now lets look at the XLASB vs. LAAR LAAR 138hp/s XLASB 196hp/s (+30% same as 2xLASB)
Also of note, the common LAAR+LAR combo with 219hp/s
So you fit two XLASB on your BS to take advantage of this. Now unless you are flying caldari, you have sacrificed a serious amount of cpu, in exchange. Same with armor mods, eating your PG, but extremely easy on the CPU.
If anything, the shield modules need to be brought up to proper snuff (or beaten down into the lower class), while increasing their fitting costs and capacitor use, and filling in the bottom with a proper small or filling in the top with a proper oversized module. Their are plenty of arguments between armor and shield tradeoffs, but it still boils down to which size do you compare it too? is a LAAR compared to a LASB or a XLASB? One is supposedly for large class while the other is supposed for the same class. If the XLSBs are not the oversized module we thought they were then what is?
|
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
746
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 20:26:42 -
[17] - Quote
almanac Omaristos wrote: But there is one GIGANTIC issue with module, you can only fit one in your ship unlike the shield variant where you can fit two. As an armor pilot who like to solo in null sec (yes using armor for solo is a thing) being able to fit a second module would be great. If your thinking it may be over powered, it simply wont be because of the reload time alone would get you killed.
This incredibly biased. If you were to get to chose a number of ancillary repairers, they probably had to double or triple the fitting requirements to make up for the powerspike over regular repairers.
Your proposal totally beats the purpose of the ancillary armor repairer. It's a burst-tank mod and you ask for *can i have sustain pls ty bye* :|
Also, shieldtanking vs. ASB tanking is tricky, since ASB outperforms before using full siegelinks and falls off afterwards in many cases - while also screwing up your fittings and normally hindering you from fitting a regular cap booster on cruisers and BCs.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1772
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 20:48:24 -
[18] - Quote
It boggles the mind as to why this module came pre-nerfed in several ways, but the other approximate shield module does not have any analogous weaknesses. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1669
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:00:13 -
[19] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:It boggles the mind as to why this module came pre-nerfed in several ways, but the other approximate shield module does not have any analogous weaknesses. Then maybe your not looking hard enough. Namely the post 2 above you. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
105
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:14:12 -
[20] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:It boggles the mind as to why this module came pre-nerfed in several ways, but the other approximate shield module does not have any analogous weaknesses.
wasn't it CCP said then they released the aar that they weren't going to make the same as the asb cause the asb being capless was bad. |
|
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
3
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:20:09 -
[21] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:almanac Omaristos wrote: But there is one GIGANTIC issue with module, you can only fit one in your ship unlike the shield variant where you can fit two. As an armor pilot who like to solo in null sec (yes using armor for solo is a thing) being able to fit a second module would be great. If your thinking it may be over powered, it simply wont be because of the reload time alone would get you killed.
This incredibly biased. If you were to get to chose a number of ancillary repairers, they probably had to double or triple the fitting requirements to make up for the powerspike over regular repairers. Your proposal totally beats the purpose of the ancillary armor repairer. It's a burst-tank mod and you ask for *can i have sustain pls ty bye* :| Also, shieldtanking vs. ASB tanking is tricky, since ASB outperforms before using full siegelinks and falls off afterwards in many cases - while also screwing up your fittings and normally hindering you from fitting a regular cap booster on cruisers and BCs.
Like I said earlier I am an armor pilot I don't fly shield so of course ill be biased. you shield pilots have always had the advantages when it comes to kitting and solo pvp in general.
but armor should have the advantage of controlling their own specialized HP. Being a armor pilot I'm slow to catch up with your standard shield ship and it should always be that way. Armor pilot need to be given more localized control over their own ship health the duel AAR proposal is the way to do it.
From solo PvP there is one thing I've learned and it is that .....
passive armor tank= death
An active tank duel ASB ship will rip the junk out of a passive tank armor ship (given it will take more time) AND they have the ability to kit and get a decent amount of reps out as well.
Armor ships can still kill shield ships solo its just tougher to do. That's why I propose duel AAR as a possibility for armor ships to be able to destroy shield ships with slightly less trouble and to add a bit more variety to armor fits as well. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
231
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:36:45 -
[22] - Quote
almanac Omaristos wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:It's pretty fine tbh, what I'd like is the T2 and faction versions.
like I said the ability to fit more of these would nice" I am an extremely jealous Amarr pilot who looks at a ancillary shield booster with certain distain. No sir its not fine atm we armor pilots must be on the same playing field as the shield pilots when it comes to solo.
Why not fit an ancillary and normal repper? Makes for a strong tank, and unlike ASBs is still useful after nanite runs out.
As what comes to solo, armor ships are perfectly viable for that.
|
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
231
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:39:28 -
[23] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:It's pretty fine tbh, what I'd like is the T2 and faction versions.
No! You do not want a tech2 version because moon-poo sec is just looking for more stuff that need moon-poo to build. Did you ever wonder who actually does pay the sov bills and whatnot nullsec lawyers are whining about?
Renting pays the bills for sov null, not moon goo at the moment. And the profits from T2 are also spread to other regions, where the invention and manufacturing happens.
I also don't have any problems with other people making isk.
|
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
3
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:40:08 -
[24] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:almanac Omaristos wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:It's pretty fine tbh, what I'd like is the T2 and faction versions.
like I said the ability to fit more of these would nice" I am an extremely jealous Amarr pilot who looks at a ancillary shield booster with certain distain. No sir its not fine atm we armor pilots must be on the same playing field as the shield pilots when it comes to solo. Why not fit an ancillary and normal repper? Makes for a strong tank, and unlike ASBs is still useful after nanite runs out. As what comes to solo, armor ships are perfectly viable for that.
I know all about this I have but one thing to say in response.
LAZORS |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
570
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:44:37 -
[25] - Quote
I think you're misunderstanding what an AAR actually is.
It's not a native tanking module. It's a "buffer" tank module in the form of a burst tank. It also has the advantage of turning into (although poor) active tank module when out of manure (lol, auto correct nanite->manure)
The AAR gives you more raw HP than its plate counterpart with out the mass but has the trade off of having to get through all the cycles to get it and burning cap modules to get it. Also, if you survive the reload, you get another plate+ worth of HP!
This module is working as intents des very well. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1669
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 21:46:22 -
[26] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:It boggles the mind as to why this module came pre-nerfed in several ways, but the other approximate shield module does not have any analogous weaknesses. wasn't it CCP said then they released the aar that they weren't going to make the same as the asb cause the asb being capless was bad. I haven found anything that says that. Where did you see it? |
Kinza
Cosmic Encounter Surely You're Joking
30
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 23:56:52 -
[27] - Quote
no, shield and armor needs the difference they have right now |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
612
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 23:57:06 -
[28] - Quote
Armor is in a sad state, so I wouldn't oppose this change, but I don't fly active armor enough to be able to comment from any authority.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
|
almanac Omaristos
Hollow Blood Hunters Surely You're Joking
4
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 13:55:52 -
[29] - Quote
Bump |
Havenard
Rubicon Spears Some Say
5
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 14:19:06 -
[30] - Quote
Its not nerfed, you are failing to see it because you are only comparing one aspect of those modules.
You can fit as many Ancillary Shield Boosters you want, while you can only fit one Ancillary Armor Repair. However, the Ancillary Armor Repair has a 200% repair bonus while fueled, while the Ancillary Shield Booster will repair the same regardless if its fueled or running on cap.
So you see, for as long as you have Nanite fueling it, its like you have 3 repaires. One low slot doing the job of 3, thats a huge advantage! Limiting you to have only one of those modules was the least they could do to balance it. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |