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Kregorius Vokan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 12:17:57 -
[1] - Quote
As of now Siphon Units are ingame and CCP promised us some interesting interactions when they came out, but shortly after people found an easy counter to them, the API!
Please CCP make siphon units viable again, please! |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
752
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 12:55:28 -
[2] - Quote
Kregorius Vokan wrote:As of now Siphon Units are ingame and CCP promised us some interesting interactions when they came out, but shortly after people found an easy counter to them, the API!
Please CCP make siphon units viable again, please!
I hope people aren't taking to much from you PO, wait can people in NPC corporations setup a POS in the first place? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4150
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 12:57:01 -
[3] - Quote
doesn't the api lie when it comes to siphons
that's a thing that's still true, right |
Kregorius Vokan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 13:46:15 -
[4] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:Kregorius Vokan wrote:As of now Siphon Units are ingame and CCP promised us some interesting interactions when they came out, but shortly after people found an easy counter to them, the API!
Please CCP make siphon units viable again, please! I hope people aren't taking to much from you PO, wait can people in NPC corporations setup a POS in the first place?
I can use siphons and so everybody else, what does this have todo with anything you write there anyway. Please keep on topic.
For those who are unaware: You can find out whether or not a siphon unit is on your POS by using API (from outside of the game!) so there is little to no effort required to look at your program and check what POS has a siphon on it, go there and destroy it. As when this wouldnt be possible you had to visit every one of your POS(es) yourself. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
752
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 14:11:56 -
[5] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:doesn't the api lie when it comes to siphons
that's a thing that's still true, right
I think the issue is that the API can let you know that something is going on with your POS. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
752
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 14:15:18 -
[6] - Quote
Kregorius Vokan wrote:Caviar Liberta wrote:Kregorius Vokan wrote:As of now Siphon Units are ingame and CCP promised us some interesting interactions when they came out, but shortly after people found an easy counter to them, the API!
Please CCP make siphon units viable again, please! I hope people aren't taking to much from you PO, wait can people in NPC corporations setup a POS in the first place? I can use siphons and so everybody else, what does this have todo with anything you write there anyway. Please keep on topic. For those who are unaware: You can find out whether or not a siphon unit is on your POS by using API (from outside of the game!) so there is little to no effort required to look at your program and check what POS has a siphon on it, go there and destroy it. As when this wouldnt be possible you had to visit every one of your POS(es) yourself.
CCP probably won't change it since it creates content for people. You set up the siphon and the owner shows up. Either you defend it or run off and let it get destoyed. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
714
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 14:27:47 -
[7] - Quote
OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it. Not much different than a mission runner having to use D-scan. Mission runner has to click dscan, human other side of the monitor has to check his API monitor...either one fails, its game over. One is out of game, other is in game...both are forms of intel....one has to be clicked constantly, the other just has to be read often to catch the perpetrator. It is like OP doesn't like the fact he cannot get away with being the bad guy unless the good guy cannot retaliate, so weird in a game full of risks . |
Serene Repose
1622
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 14:37:36 -
[8] - Quote
From what I gather, these siphon units are so powerful one has to check an API and do some math to tell if one is actually present. That is such a huge, dynamic hit on an enemy corp's resources, I can see their usefulness as a weapon. Correspondingly , the tap is so profitable, one could easily stop strolling up neighborhood streets with a Tennessee Walking Stick and a ten-gallon gas can. I can see your concern here, really.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Kregorius Vokan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 15:29:24 -
[9] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it. Not much different than a mission runner having to use D-scan. Mission runner has to click dscan, human other side of the monitor has to check his API monitor...either one fails, its game over. One is out of game, other is in game...both are forms of intel....one has to be clicked constantly, the other just has to be read often to catch the perpetrator. It is like OP doesn't like the fact he cannot get away with being the bad guy unless the good guy cannot retaliate, so weird in a game full of risks .
So much bull right there ^
NO! The risk is still there, you need to go there and collect it as it was meant to work, the only thing that is broken is that you can get notified by a program OUTSIDE of EVE whether or not there is a siphon unit at your POS, and that is broken! If you want to harvest you need to protect your POS and visit it to check for a siphon unit not sit at work and get emailed about it. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4150
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 15:39:30 -
[10] - Quote
Kregorius Vokan wrote:Aqriue wrote:OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it. Not much different than a mission runner having to use D-scan. Mission runner has to click dscan, human other side of the monitor has to check his API monitor...either one fails, its game over. One is out of game, other is in game...both are forms of intel....one has to be clicked constantly, the other just has to be read often to catch the perpetrator. It is like OP doesn't like the fact he cannot get away with being the bad guy unless the good guy cannot retaliate, so weird in a game full of risks . So much bull right there ^ NO! The risk is still there, you need to go there and collect it as it was meant to work, the only thing that is broken is that you can get notified by a program OUTSIDE of EVE whether or not there is a siphon unit at your POS, and that is broken! If you want to harvest you need to protect your POS and visit it to check for a siphon unit not sit at work and get emailed about it. aqriue is wrong and op is right, the intention of siphons is that you have to check it manually
but what about the api lets people know if there's a siphon? like i said, i thought the api lied to us about siphons |
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Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
752
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 15:51:56 -
[11] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Kregorius Vokan wrote:Aqriue wrote:OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it. Not much different than a mission runner having to use D-scan. Mission runner has to click dscan, human other side of the monitor has to check his API monitor...either one fails, its game over. One is out of game, other is in game...both are forms of intel....one has to be clicked constantly, the other just has to be read often to catch the perpetrator. It is like OP doesn't like the fact he cannot get away with being the bad guy unless the good guy cannot retaliate, so weird in a game full of risks . So much bull right there ^ NO! The risk is still there, you need to go there and collect it as it was meant to work, the only thing that is broken is that you can get notified by a program OUTSIDE of EVE whether or not there is a siphon unit at your POS, and that is broken! If you want to harvest you need to protect your POS and visit it to check for a siphon unit not sit at work and get emailed about it. aqriue is wrong and op is right, the intention of siphons is that you have to check it manually but what about the api lets people know if there's a siphon? like i said, i thought the api lied to us about siphons
CCP needs to get rid of the API then for the Siphon to work as intended then. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4153
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 16:03:40 -
[12] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:aqriue is wrong and op is right, the intention of siphons is that you have to check it manually
but what about the api lets people know if there's a siphon? like i said, i thought the api lied to us about siphons CCP needs to get rid of the API then for the Siphon to work as intended then. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3749179#post3749179
this is what the question is about. does anyone in this thread actually know the answer. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1366
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 16:07:45 -
[13] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Kregorius Vokan wrote:Aqriue wrote:OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it. Not much different than a mission runner having to use D-scan. Mission runner has to click dscan, human other side of the monitor has to check his API monitor...either one fails, its game over. One is out of game, other is in game...both are forms of intel....one has to be clicked constantly, the other just has to be read often to catch the perpetrator. It is like OP doesn't like the fact he cannot get away with being the bad guy unless the good guy cannot retaliate, so weird in a game full of risks . So much bull right there ^ NO! The risk is still there, you need to go there and collect it as it was meant to work, the only thing that is broken is that you can get notified by a program OUTSIDE of EVE whether or not there is a siphon unit at your POS, and that is broken! If you want to harvest you need to protect your POS and visit it to check for a siphon unit not sit at work and get emailed about it. aqriue is wrong and op is right, the intention of siphons is that you have to check it manually but what about the api lets people know if there's a siphon? like i said, i thought the api lied to us about siphons
From what I remember reading, the API does not tell there is a siphon but does tell how much Goo is in the silo so if you have your math straight, you know there is some missing. I proposed that since the siphon somehow get access to the tower processing to divert the goo flow, it should also be able to change the info the silo relays to it's owner as if it was still getting filled at a normal rate. Not sure CCP want to let the API tell any form of lies tho so they would instead have to just stop feeding the silo info completely but that probably have other legitimate use other than easy siphon detection.
CCP seem to have changed their view from that post to the actual release of the feature. Some part of the base idea were changed so it is not impossible this also did change. Hell maybe it's just impossible for the API to "make up" numbers so the intended way was impossible but it was never mentioned by CCP for whatever good or bad reason they can have. |
Kregorius Vokan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 16:15:29 -
[14] - Quote
Apparently you need to chain 3 silos in order to be able to detect the loss in mining, CCP please look into this, also here guys I found this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=367252
If someone is willing to setup a POS and SiSi chain 3 silos and test it, that would be great! Then report as mentioned in that post. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
697
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 16:16:08 -
[15] - Quote
Kregorius Vokan wrote:Caviar Liberta wrote:Kregorius Vokan wrote:As of now Siphon Units are ingame and CCP promised us some interesting interactions when they came out, but shortly after people found an easy counter to them, the API!
Please CCP make siphon units viable again, please! I hope people aren't taking to much from you PO, wait can people in NPC corporations setup a POS in the first place? I can use siphons and so everybody else, what does this have todo with anything you write there anyway. Please keep on topic. For those who are unaware: You can find out whether or not a siphon unit is on your POS by using API (from outside of the game!) so there is little to no effort required to look at your program and check what POS has a siphon on it, go there and destroy it. As when this wouldnt be possible you had to visit every one of your POS(es) yourself, so please CCP do not provide that information in API at least unless you have a better solution. That is Benny's and other forum trolls like him specialty..... A topic they donGÇÖt like or agree with the harder they try to get it off topic so it can get locked. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4153
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 16:17:48 -
[16] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:From what I remember reading, the API does not tell there is a siphon but does tell how much Goo is in the silo so if you have your math straight, you know there is some missing. I proposed that since the siphon somehow get access to the tower processing to divert the goo flow, it should also be able to change the info the silo relays to it's owner as if it was still getting filled at a normal rate. Not sure CCP want to let the API tell any form of lies tho so they would instead have to just stop feeding the silo info completely but that probably have other legitimate use other than easy siphon detection. CCP seem to have changed their view from that post to the actual release of the feature. Some part of the base idea were changed so it is not impossible this also did change. Hell maybe it's just impossible for the API to "make up" numbers so the intended way was impossible but it was never mentioned by CCP for whatever good or bad reason they can have.
Kregorius Vokan wrote:Apparently you need to chain 3 silos in order to be able to detect the loss in mining, CCP please look into this, also here guys I found this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=367252 If someone is willing to setup a POS and SiSi chain 3 silos and test it, that would be great! Then report as mentioned in that post. i'll mail steve ronuken and ask. he'd know for sure |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4153
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 16:19:01 -
[17] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:fart fart fart fart fart lol |
Cynadore
3 R Corporation
13
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 16:23:02 -
[18] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it.
Sounds to me like you want risk free moon mining. Too much of a pain to log in except every month or so to refuel the tower. Much easier to install a tool that will warn you if a siphon is used on one of your POSes so you can deal with it without too much risk or effort.
Siphon warnings defeat the very reason siphons were designed for. But hey that's just CCP. I'm guessing goons must have complained at some point, as usual. |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
66
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:28:05 -
[19] - Quote
Less API info for POS stuff in general would be a good change me thinks. Goon presentation at EVE Vegas is a must watch for anyone interested in discussing this topic. I won't say it's easy to manage hundreds of POS, them Goons put a good amount of work into it, but it's too feasible to do so while out-of-game.
With the shoddy POS mechanics an argument can be made to keep it as is, but with those mechanics fixed a reduction in API info should be considered.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2537
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:48:30 -
[20] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:doesn't the api lie when it comes to siphons
that's a thing that's still true, right Nope, there was an exploit where a tower with a 2 silo configuration wouldn't lie if it was siphoned. CCP patched that, and then the exploiters started using the same exploit with a 3 silo configuration. This still has not been fixed., but that's ccp for ya.
Kinda disappointing, really. |
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Gabriel Karade
Noir. Suddenly Spaceships.
207
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 11:55:23 -
[21] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it. Not much different than a mission runner having to use D-scan. Mission runner has to click dscan, human other side of the monitor has to check his API monitor...either one fails, its game over. One is out of game, other is in game...both are forms of intel....one has to be clicked constantly, the other just has to be read often to catch the perpetrator. It is like OP doesn't like the fact he cannot get away with being the bad guy unless the good guy cannot retaliate, so weird in a game full of risks . I think you're missing the point - potentially (potentially, I'm not 100% convinced as yet...) an out of game tool is allowing for defeating of an in-game mechanic.
If this were the case, this goes against the recent changes of trying to prevent 'absenteeism' from space holdings. This can only a bad thing GÇô if you hold a valuable asset, you should have to log in to check the thing, rather than playing `spreadsheets offlineGÇÖGǪ.
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Xercodo
Vector Galactic Did he say Jump
3836
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 12:23:13 -
[22] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it. Not much different than a mission runner having to use D-scan. Mission runner has to click dscan, human other side of the monitor has to check his API monitor...either one fails, its game over. One is out of game, other is in game...both are forms of intel....one has to be clicked constantly, the other just has to be read often to catch the perpetrator. It is like OP doesn't like the fact he cannot get away with being the bad guy unless the good guy cannot retaliate, so weird in a game full of risks .
Nah, using API calls a server could be set up to poke you via SMS or email. The API is simply data to the outside world, but once we have it we can do anything with it. Assuming you take out the upfront work of having an API reading infrastructure it's still less active work than keeping up with dscan.
This isn't about risk free, it's about realistically risky. If the API wasn't giving people this data there wouldn't be any other way to check for siphons besides actually going there. Since the API is providing information that can't already be found in-game in the same manner it's circumventing any risk on the part of the POS owner.
The Drake is a Lie
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Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
1264
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 12:44:49 -
[23] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Kregorius Vokan wrote:Aqriue wrote:OP wants risk free income stealing from people, doesn't like the fact people know about it. Not much different than a mission runner having to use D-scan. Mission runner has to click dscan, human other side of the monitor has to check his API monitor...either one fails, its game over. One is out of game, other is in game...both are forms of intel....one has to be clicked constantly, the other just has to be read often to catch the perpetrator. It is like OP doesn't like the fact he cannot get away with being the bad guy unless the good guy cannot retaliate, so weird in a game full of risks . So much bull right there ^ NO! The risk is still there, you need to go there and collect it as it was meant to work, the only thing that is broken is that you can get notified by a program OUTSIDE of EVE whether or not there is a siphon unit at your POS, and that is broken! If you want to harvest you need to protect your POS and visit it to check for a siphon unit not sit at work and get emailed about it. aqriue is wrong and op is right, the intention of siphons is that you have to check it manually but what about the api lets people know if there's a siphon? like i said, i thought the api lied to us about siphons
With a bit of simple programming, you write a program that monitors silo volume changes. If the rate the silo is filling changes, then your program flags it. Voila. You have a simple program that identifies within 30 minutes, any pos that has a siphon on it. Considering every large-ish alliance has at least some people who can do basic coding, there's no good excuse for not having something similar to this. If CCP really wants you to not be able to use the api to check for siphons, they will have to remove silo quantity levels from the api. |
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
3485
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 13:07:24 -
[24] - Quote
dear CCP,
siphon units are useless
please make them cloakable
yours,
OP
A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg
I'm a Snaper - imgur.com/8EHPPWU
-
mad? ( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4161
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 15:20:23 -
[25] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:With a bit of simple programming, you write a program that monitors silo volume changes. If the rate the silo is filling changes, then your program flags it. Voila. You have a simple program that identifies within 30 minutes, any pos that has a siphon on it. Considering every large-ish alliance has at least some people who can do basic coding, there's no good excuse for not having something similar to this. If CCP really wants you to not be able to use the api to check for siphons, they will have to remove silo quantity levels from the api. the api is supposed to lie about silo contents. see my link above |
Kregorius Vokan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:10:15 -
[26] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:doesn't the api lie when it comes to siphons
that's a thing that's still true, right Nope, there was an exploit where a tower with a 2 silo configuration wouldn't lie if it was siphoned. CCP patched that, and then the exploiters started using the same exploit with a 3 silo configuration. This still has not been fixed., but that's ccp for ya. Kinda disappointing, really.
Thanks for the info, please CCP fix that. |
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2709
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 21:09:49 -
[27] - Quote
CCP is aware of the situation. No need to start a new thread over it.
Thread locked.
The Rules: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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