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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
89
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:28:30 -
[451] - Quote
Well, good thing is that removal of the clone costs WILL happen. So this discussion will change nothing.
So all in all, it doesn't really matter that the OP just ignores the counter arguments and calls everyone who oppose her views as trolls.
Truth lasers fired! |
Arune Malieka
Steel Society
5
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:37:35 -
[452] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Arune Malieka wrote:She really is a master of this I must say.
22 pages later and I'd say we've cycled through the same arguments at least 5 times or so. People keep bringing up the same issue as if its new. It'll receive the same boilerplate response. Post on your main.
*would look for her main, unfortunately she is literally only 3 months old and has less than a third of the isk most have at this point. So just sort of sits on the login page dreaming of what her alts might one day look like. surely they will be beautiful.* |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
328
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Posted - 2014.11.22 05:32:50 -
[453] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Well, good thing is that removal of the clone costs WILL happen. So this discussion will change nothing.
So all in all, it doesn't really matter that the OP just ignores the counter arguments and calls everyone who oppose her views as trolls.
Truth lasers fired!
Well normally I would agree, but ccp did back out of making sb decloak each other again so nothing is written in stone. But yea, if I was going to prognosticate, I would bet that clone changes are coming regardless of what we say. Of course CCP's direction lately has been short sighted and myopic, so its no surprise.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4179
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Posted - 2014.11.22 09:41:59 -
[454] - Quote
Arune Malieka wrote:Did she just ignore all the arguments given? the op fails to recognise that the function of a sub mmo is to support what players want to do and provide an engaging, entertaining experience
the op also fails to understand that medical clone bills are not an engaging or interesting mechanic
the op continually suggests 'options' that are inviable, tedious or an outright waste of time and sub money
the op seems to think that forcing players to do something they don't enjoy is a good mechanic for a sub mmo, or that just because a mechanic can be worked around means it's not a bad mechanic
so in answer to your question yes the op is sitting there with her fingers in her ears accusing others of trolling in a fallacious attempt to discredit them |
Medalyn Isis
Rosewood Productions
423
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Posted - 2014.11.22 10:40:19 -
[455] - Quote
Pod death should result in SP loss. Just a small amount, but enough to make it a deterrent that you would not want to lose your pod. |
FunGu Arsten
Fungu .Inc
29
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Posted - 2014.11.22 11:28:19 -
[456] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Pod death should result in SP loss. Just a small amount, but enough to make it a deterrent that you would not want to lose your pod. the more you pvp the worse you become // i like your highsec attitude! |
Opertone
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
311
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:13:07 -
[457] - Quote
I know !
New clone insurance will cover basic cloning facilities. You will be charged monthly for coning services. If you do not play eve and make isk, you will accumulate debt. Then missions and plex are your only way out of this.
Second, basic clones will dethaw in 12 hours after podding. Upgraded clones will come back to life 3 hours after podding.
Premium clones will come with implants preinstalled (refunded) and come back to life within 15 minutes. This premium will cost 250 million per month.
This will be a huge ISK sink, CCP will restrain suicide scouting that way.
The elite works in Deep Core Mining. |
Medalyn Isis
Aliastra Gallente Federation
427
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:26:23 -
[458] - Quote
FunGu Arsten wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Pod death should result in SP loss. Just a small amount, but enough to make it a deterrent that you would not want to lose your pod. the more you pvp the worse you become // i like your highsec attitude! Or, actions have consequences. Eve isn't meant to be a theme park as you would seem to believe. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1739
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:31:01 -
[459] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:FunGu Arsten wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Pod death should result in SP loss. Just a small amount, but enough to make it a deterrent that you would not want to lose your pod. the more you pvp the worse you become // i like your highsec attitude! Or, actions have consequences. Eve isn't meant to be a theme park as you would seem to believe. and I'm assuming that clone expenses were the only consequences then? There are no others? Removing clones would remove all consequences? |
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
149
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:36:45 -
[460] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:FunGu Arsten wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Pod death should result in SP loss. Just a small amount, but enough to make it a deterrent that you would not want to lose your pod. the more you pvp the worse you become // i like your highsec attitude! Or, actions have consequences. Eve isn't meant to be a theme park as you would seem to believe. and I'm assuming that clone expenses were the only consequences then? There are no others? Removing clones would remove all consequences?
It's certainly one more nail in the sandbox's coffin, which is why I am uneasy about it.
Each nail in the sandbox is yet another birth pain for the theme park.
Most people who are supporting the removal of the clone costs are doing so as a result of their own self interest. Null bears and F1 monkeys mostly.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
975
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:38:23 -
[461] - Quote
Well, just poppin in here after yesterday's .. whatever it was. Anyway, I just want to say 1 more time that imo, no real penalties for dying is just $hitty. It takes out the element of actually giving a $hit or two what happens to you. Death penalties promote "meaningful decisions" about the risks one is willing to take.
I think it sux big hairy donkey kawk.
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1739
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:46:30 -
[462] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Rowells wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:FunGu Arsten wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Pod death should result in SP loss. Just a small amount, but enough to make it a deterrent that you would not want to lose your pod. the more you pvp the worse you become // i like your highsec attitude! Or, actions have consequences. Eve isn't meant to be a theme park as you would seem to believe. and I'm assuming that clone expenses were the only consequences then? There are no others? Removing clones would remove all consequences? It's certainly one more nail in the sandbox's coffin, which is why I am uneasy about it. Each nail in the sandbox is yet another birth pain for the theme park. Most people who are supporting the removal of the clone costs are doing so as a result of their own self interest. Null bears and F1 monkeys mostly. So far, I have seen to main arguments on how clones are useless in providing any meaningful content.
- Clones are so cheap they just become an annoyance. - clones are so expensive they become a detrimental factor in deciding whether to undock or not
So on both ends of the spectrum you see it providing no meaningful content, and on the flipside, having a negative impact on content. In a worst case scenario, it makes people want to risk less. Its not because nobody wants to pay isk for it, but why do it? Why pour isk into something that provides no benefit? Why would you fit an expensive module on your ship if it did absolutely nothing, aside from keeping your ship from prematurely exploding? Theres nothing to be gained by spending more on it, but something to be lost by spending less on it. It doesnt even follow the rule of diminishing returns like everything else. There is a set point for each person where it either works, or it doesnt. Its annoyingly binary.
Simply put, it reduces the amount of 'fun' risk pilots are willing to take and provides no 'fun' gameplay in return. Getting rid of clone costs offers otions to replace it with a better system later, as has been mentioned.
E: do we really want a mechanic that discourages risk for higher SP characters? Don't we want them undocked and shootable? Don't we want them risking real assets in space more often? Clone costs do not help that in any way. Not to mention it doesnt even remotely follow risk vs reward, which the actual risk situation eve should encourage. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25256
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 20:49:59 -
[463] - Quote
keep hope alive
and this thread
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
976
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:52:55 -
[464] - Quote
Rowells wrote: So far, I have seen to main arguments on how clones are useless in providing any meaningful content.
- Clones are so cheap they just become an annoyance. - clones are so expensive they become a detrimental factor in deciding whether to undock or not
So on both ends of the spectrum you see it providing no meaningful content, and on the flipside, having a negative impact on content. In a worst case scenario, it makes people want to risk less. Its not because nobody wants to pay isk for it, but why do it? Why pour isk into something that provides no benefit? Why would you fit an expensive module on your ship if it did absolutely nothing, aside from keeping your ship from prematurely exploding? Theres nothing to be gained by spending more on it, but something to be lost by spending less on it. It doesnt even follow the rule of diminishing returns like everything else. There is a set point for each person where it either works, or it doesnt. Its annoyingly binary.
Simply put, it reduces the amount of 'fun' risk pilots are willing to take and provides no 'fun' gameplay in return. Getting rid of clone costs offers otions to replace it with a better system later, as has been mentioned.
I disagree. In other MMO's where one had a choice as to if they wanted to play in a PVP or straight PVE shard, I always chose PVP even if I wasnt wild about that game's PVP. This is because, to me, half the damn fun of playing is having to watch your back, a constant threat of danger and loss!
I keep 4 rather expensive clones, and 1 empty. The empty is for wild shenanigans in null, the others are optimized for certain ships. I make a "meaningful decision" with real consequences to my gameplay just about every day as I decide whether to jump into another clone and which one.
Like I said, removing the element of danger is removing part of the fun!
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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Medalyn Isis
Aliastra Gallente Federation
427
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Posted - 2014.11.22 20:54:33 -
[465] - Quote
Rowells wrote:E: do we really want a mechanic that discourages risk for higher SP characters? Don't we want them undocked and shootable? Don't we want them risking real assets in space more often? Clone costs do not help that in any way. Why don't we turn tranquillity into sisi, put everything on the market at 100 isk with unlimited supply, after all, we don't want to discourage people from pvp do we?
Your logic is flawed. Pod loss is meant to be the most detrimental thing which can happen to a pod pilot, the consequence should reflect that. Then the bounty system might finally make sense too. |
Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
24
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:01:31 -
[466] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.
And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it. So you don't like the core of Eve gameplay. Don't wander into lowsec, you may not enjoy it. Ive been in Low sec and null its boring in its present state dont believe the hype its time for the old guard to adapt to the New Order! Change is Coming Like it or not! |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
978
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:03:29 -
[467] - Quote
Solops Crendraven wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.
And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it. So you don't like the core of Eve gameplay. Don't wander into lowsec, you may not enjoy it. Ive been in Low sec and null its boring in its present state dont believe the hype its time for the old guard to adapt to the New Order! Change is Coming Like it or not!
Oh plz, no more "Hope and Change"
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
155
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:09:11 -
[468] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Rowells wrote:E: do we really want a mechanic that discourages risk for higher SP characters? Don't we want them undocked and shootable? Don't we want them risking real assets in space more often? Clone costs do not help that in any way. Why don't we turn tranquillity into sisi, put everything on the market at 100 isk with unlimited supply, after all, we don't want to discourage people from pvp do we? Your logic is flawed. Pod loss is meant to be the most detrimental thing which can happen to a pod pilot, the consequence should reflect that. Then the bounty system might finally make sense too.
Well said.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
93698
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:10:34 -
[469] - Quote
Looks like the pro clone grade people are currently winning.
All you anti clone grade people need to step up your game!
Unlock all the clothes || My Fanclub
Harmless - Penniless - Aimless
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
225
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:16:12 -
[470] - Quote
This is an awful idea. Clones are currently a dead mechanic from when ISK was not plentiful and there were much less skills.
Scale clones to the current game.
Don't upgrade your clone? Your next pod death == your character is dead FOREVER
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25259
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:22:18 -
[471] - Quote
like siggy
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
155
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:24:12 -
[472] - Quote
It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.
I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.
After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...
to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.
I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.
Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
24
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:39:54 -
[473] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.
I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.
After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...
to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.
I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.
Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting. Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:48:09 -
[474] - Quote
Originally I was strong pro removing death penalties as planed and I'm still pro removing the clone grades ... but as I'm PvPing in empty clones most of the time, I will much less care about my pod, I would even welcome the fast trip home to hop into the next ship. Hence clone death and kills become meaningless ... which I think is not a good situation in the long run. Somewhere I read a proposal which I think would well fit as a replacement death penalty, lock one or more of your skills temporarily, so you can still play but are handicapped for a time.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
979
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Posted - 2014.11.22 22:00:52 -
[475] - Quote
Solops Crendraven wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.
I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.
After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...
to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.
I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.
Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting. Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing.
Because this isn't freaking Counterstrike.
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1739
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Posted - 2014.11.22 22:14:28 -
[476] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Rowells wrote: So far, I have seen to main arguments on how clones are useless in providing any meaningful content.
- Clones are so cheap they just become an annoyance. - clones are so expensive they become a detrimental factor in deciding whether to undock or not
So on both ends of the spectrum you see it providing no meaningful content, and on the flipside, having a negative impact on content. In a worst case scenario, it makes people want to risk less. Its not because nobody wants to pay isk for it, but why do it? Why pour isk into something that provides no benefit? Why would you fit an expensive module on your ship if it did absolutely nothing, aside from keeping your ship from prematurely exploding? Theres nothing to be gained by spending more on it, but something to be lost by spending less on it. It doesnt even follow the rule of diminishing returns like everything else. There is a set point for each person where it either works, or it doesnt. Its annoyingly binary.
Simply put, it reduces the amount of 'fun' risk pilots are willing to take and provides no 'fun' gameplay in return. Getting rid of clone costs offers otions to replace it with a better system later, as has been mentioned.
I disagree. In other MMO's where one had a choice as to if they wanted to play in a PVP or straight PVE shard, I always chose PVP even if I wasnt wild about that game's PVP. This is because, to me, half the damn fun of playing is having to watch your back, a constant threat of danger and loss! I keep 4 rather expensive clones, and 1 empty. The empty is for wild shenanigans in null, the others are optimized for certain ships. I make a "meaningful decision" with real consequences to my gameplay just about every day as I decide whether to jump into another clone and which one. Like I said, removing the element of danger is removing part of the fun! do you mean empty as in implants or as in clone upgrades |
Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
24
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Posted - 2014.11.22 22:16:31 -
[477] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Solops Crendraven wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.
I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.
After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...
to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.
I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.
Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting. Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing. Because this isn't freaking Counterstrike. Lol fair Enough However Counterstrike has over 20k viewer Daily!!! vs Eve Online not even 10 on twitch TV http://www.twitch.tv/directoryWhats up with that?Well back to the OPs Thread Sorry Dont wanna spend isk on clones.
Check Me Out!!! On Twitch Tv 24/7 enter link description here
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
159
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Posted - 2014.11.22 22:26:17 -
[478] - Quote
Solops Crendraven wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.
I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.
After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...
to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.
I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.
Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting. Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing.
If that's the type of player you want to attract to Eve then I personally think that you are wrong for Eve.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
24
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Posted - 2014.11.22 22:32:42 -
[479] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Solops Crendraven wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.
I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.
After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...
to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.
I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.
Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting. Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing. If that's the type of player you want to attract to Eve then I personally think that you are wrong for Eve. Sounds Elitist If thats what CCP wants to do all the power to them however the playerbase wont grow and will only appeal to a very small niche market.
Check Me Out!!! On Twitch Tv 24/7 enter link description here
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
159
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Posted - 2014.11.22 23:07:32 -
[480] - Quote
Solops Crendraven wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:Solops Crendraven wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:It would be nice if we had some further comments on this from CCP as to the value of our feedback thus far.
I'm not opposed to a change of game mechanic around clones as long as death hurts you in some way or another.
After all if i fire some projectile ammo through your pod forcing your consciousness to wake up in a new body light years away in an instant, iI'd say that it was the perfect representation of a nasty experience...
to make that meaninglessness is in opposition to the very core of the values of Eve Online and it's community.
I don't want to see the equivalent of cod re spawn points being set up in our beautiful sandbox.
Make death meaningful, I don't care how CCP do it, let death keep its sting. Why Make Death Meaningful? Hows that going to Grow our Player base? casual Players dont care about Death They just want to Log in Respawn! and Blow up ships. respawn! Blow up some ships. Respawn blow up some ships so on and log out Que up for a week in skills and unlock and come back and repeat the process again without losing there rent money the core mechanics cater only to Hardcore Players. thats why these changes are a good thing. If that's the type of player you want to attract to Eve then I personally think that you are wrong for Eve. Sounds Elitist If thats what CCP wants to do( Alienate Gamers) all the power to them however the playerbase wont grow and will only appeal to a very small niche market. Note: Eve Online needs a Solo Q Button and Clones Should Respawn for Free and a Mini Map would be nice.
Different games for different types of people.
There's a reason why I don't play star trek online or wow. They don't appeal to me.
same reason why I don't read historical romance or books about religion. Different tastes for different people.
It's not possible to make a game that appeals to everyone, it would be foolish to try.
It would be like writing a book and hoping that everyone who buys books will want to buy and read it.
different demographics etc.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
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