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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1373
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Posted - 2014.11.19 18:29:05 -
[91] - Quote
Niskin wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:It's funny how the title of the thread is about an improvement, but suddenly these seconds of eve play time we'll never get back become a problem quite early in the discussion. Every single post the OP made was about these few seconds, there is no ambiguity in that. He said that with a lot of new signatures around it would be nice if the artificially inflated, non-skill-controlled, portion of the scan time were lessened. Adding new holes, new data/relic sites, and new statics has added connections, increasing overall scanning time. These are facts. Now maybe he went too far asking for that entire portion to be removed, maybe that invited some of the responses he got. But the fact remains that recent changes have increased the time it takes to scan down multiple systems, even if only paying attention to WH's once you know the type. I don't think it's unreasonable to point that out and ask if a change can be made to counter that. For as much as people in this thread said they understood what he meant, here we are several pages in and it doesn't seem like people actually did get it. Meanwhile, without this thread I wouldn't be questioning my use of core probes. If somebody could confirm that combat probes are faster and just as effective that would be great, but I can test it and report back if everybody else already bailed on the thread.
Sorry Various people have tested and unfortunately combat probes are not faster, was worth a try though.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Tosawa Komarui
No Vacancies
2
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Posted - 2014.11.19 18:45:57 -
[92] - Quote
Ridvanson wrote:Tosawa Komarui wrote:not sure if its possible but what if they increased the speed to go yellow in the scan threshold? that would let you ignore unwanted signatures much faster while still having to scan them down normally if you want them.
personally i approve of improving scan speeds, i dont have max scan skills but in my covops ship it can take over an hour to scan 40 signatures in a chain even if i am only looking for relic and wormholes, ignoring the rest. Bet I could do it in half time with an unbonused ship w/o any scanning mods/rigs whatsoever. And Astronometrics lvl 3. Just saying :>
ok? |
Zeras Allyndar
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
18
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Posted - 2014.11.19 20:21:17 -
[93] - Quote
I think you just need to work on your scanning, space friend. For me the bottleneck is not probe travel/scan time, it is forgetting which sig I am warping to while bookmarking the last sig and sorting who in our scout fleet will warp through which hole. It shouldn't take more than 2 scans per cluster and 2 per desireable sig to resolve/ignore a system. I think 3-5 minutes per hole is more than fair.
ISD Ezwal:
"Well, lets put it this way, if I would clean this thread by the forum rules, there would be very little left."
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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
136
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Posted - 2014.11.19 21:43:48 -
[94] - Quote
Zeras Allyndar wrote:I think you just need to work on your scanning, space friend. For me the bottleneck is not probe travel/scan time, it is forgetting which sig I am warping to while bookmarking the last sig and sorting who in our scout fleet will warp through which hole. It shouldn't take more than 2 scans per cluster and 2 per desireable sig to resolve/ignore a system. I think 3-5 minutes per hole is more than fair.
This brings up a good point.
Could people here state whether they're referring to scanning a system solo, or as part of a crew that scans a system together?
I say this because you would probably spend the "beep beep wait" time updating your mapper/friends about what you're scanning. That would explain the lack of perceived downtime IMHO.
Generally, I'm always scanning a system solo. I think this is relevant.
If I scan a system with a partner I spend time coordinating so we don't repeat work. This does take up that time in between just fine.
When I'm solo there's no need, I just mass-update the sig list before I leave and everything's kosher.
Just a thought - might explain some of the discrepancies in perceived downtime.
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
545
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Posted - 2014.11.19 21:56:13 -
[95] - Quote
I prefer scanning solo then trying to communicate. Communications hard mmkay!
Blue-Fire Best Fire
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Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3962
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Posted - 2014.11.20 02:00:53 -
[96] - Quote
Tosawa Komarui wrote:not sure if its possible but what if they increased the speed to go yellow in the scan threshold? that would let you ignore unwanted signatures much faster while still having to scan them down normally if you want them.
personally i approve of improving scan speeds, i dont have max scan skills but in my covops ship it can take over an hour to scan 40 signatures in a chain even if i am only looking for relic and wormholes, ignoring the rest. hey mate, if it's taking you an hour to scan 40 sigs i'm going to assume it's a technique/skill issue. contrary to popular belief, i'm all for helping the newer players out so here, maybe this will help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TisDb8c2aS4
it's old and semi out of date (scanning is far easier now) but the method, probe layout and general principles have not changed. the scanner I used in the video IS maxed out so dont expect to be as fast, you'll probably need 1 more pass on each sig on average, or you can set the inner probes to 1au which will give you similar hits but deviation will be a bigger issue.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1374
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Posted - 2014.11.20 11:48:29 -
[97] - Quote
That's, a nice fast way of blitzing through a system. Being able to save your own probe formations, has been really helpful with that regard too.
I am sure that will help quite a few people.
I know we disagree on the idea of removing some of the artificial scanning delay between each sweep, and I respect that.
And we all know we have a lot more sigs to scan recently, but wow was that hole in your video full of sigs.
I think part of our different focus is the different needs people have.
For some, the focus is to get down the chain as fast as possible, looking for ships to engage with at that moment. We do that too, when we have plenty on.
For others, who are preparing the chain for others to follow on later, it is more important to bookmark the sites where ships may be encountered later. And so the hole has to be fully and completely identified up to two or more chains deep. So every sig counts.
And sometimes it is a combination of the two.
I understand what you are saying, you naturally see what applies to the way you use scanning on a daily basis.
I try to report the same.
But the proposal helps all, not just one playstyle.
I would also like to see skills rewarded, and meaningful, but that is a conversation for another time, when the Devs look deeply at scanning in another pass, this proposal is simply a QOL change to mitigate for the extra sigs, not to make scanning easy mode.
I hope people get the concept.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
644
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Posted - 2014.11.20 12:07:20 -
[98] - Quote
So I logged in and scanned a sig. There were to delays. The first was while the probes moved from A to B. No logic foul there. The second was while the probes did their probe thing. No logic foul there either.
For space realism vs boring time wasting I'll point out that in general, the probes have to move several AU to get into position. They then scan various ranges (in AU) of space and report it back to you. You are AU away from the probes that are reporting back to you. Following??
1 AU is the distance it takes light to travel in one year. So you're probes are travelling master than the speed of light and reporting back to you faster than the speed of light. Expecting all this to happen faster is just further bending an already artificially bent reality.
I don't see any artificial delay in anything. Your probes are travelling light years and reporting back over distances in light years. You should just be thankful CCP gives us what they do. Heck if they gave us row boats, we'd still be on grid with our starting noob station.
All I'm saying is find an actual problem for them to deal with. If you want to think of it in more realistic terms. I'm in the US and the server is in Iceland. It really takes real time to get my scan request from my basement to there and back. The 'delay' you are experiencing may be because scanning data requests/returns have a lower priority in some CCP que where shooting stuffs gets a higher priority. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1374
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Posted - 2014.11.20 12:15:23 -
[99] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:So I logged in and scanned a sig. There were to delays. The first was while the probes moved from A to B. No logic foul there. The second was while the probes did their probe thing. No logic foul there either.
For space realism vs boring time wasting I'll point out that in general, the probes have to move several AU to get into position. They then scan various ranges (in AU) of space and report it back to you. You are AU away from the probes that are reporting back to you. Following??
1 AU is the distance it takes light to travel in one year. So you're probes are travelling master than the speed of light and reporting back to you faster than the speed of light. Expecting all this to happen faster is just further bending an already artificially bent reality.
I don't see any artificial delay in anything. Your probes are travelling light years and reporting back over distances in light years. You should just be thankful CCP gives us what they do. Heck if they gave us row boats, we'd still be on grid with our starting noob station.
All I'm saying is find an actual problem for them to deal with. If you want to think of it in more realistic terms. I'm in the US and the server is in Iceland. It really takes real time to get my scan request from my basement to there and back. The 'delay' you are experiencing may be because scanning data requests/returns have a lower priority in some CCP que where shooting stuffs gets a higher priority.
I of course understand what you say, there are an infinite number of ways to justify the delay between each sweep. Whether one decribes the delays, via lore,science, or other means, the delay exists.
The proposal is a simple suggestion and request to mitigate the increase in the number of signatures, by the means of decreasing the magnitude of these timers.
Thence we get back to being able to enjoy the boon and benefits of the increased content, without an increase in pointless additional frustration and boredom.
And we have it no easier or faster than we did before these additional signatures were added.
Is that not a rational and reasonable request?
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
644
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Posted - 2014.11.20 13:58:19 -
[100] - Quote
That gets us back to the question I asked yesterday. How many no opinions do you need to come to terms with this being something that CCP doesn't need to pursue.... ergo you will let this go as an idea that will never be implemented... thence being able to move on to other things.
I'm just looking for a reasonable number where you will begin working on something in the realm of productive change. |
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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
138
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Posted - 2014.11.20 14:45:59 -
[101] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:That gets us back to the question I asked yesterday. How many no opinions do you need to come to terms with this being something that CCP doesn't need to pursue.... ergo you will let this go as an idea that will never be implemented... thence being able to move on to other things.
I'm just looking for a reasonable number where you will begin working on something in the realm of productive change.
This game and its forums are like Project Mayhem. You determine your own level of involvement. Perhaps if you find this debate to be pointless you should stop contributing to it. Perhaps if you want to talk about other things, you should just do so and leave others to talk about what they want.
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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Niskin
League of the Lost
83
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Posted - 2014.11.20 15:33:14 -
[102] - Quote
It's also already been pointed out that if you click scan twice in a row without moving the probes at all that the delay is the same. So the travel isn't really what causes the delay, although you would think it would be. Not that it matters really. CCP has plenty of options to speed this up if they choose. I think this thread is more about the why than the how.
Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.
-MooMooDachshundCow
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Tosawa Komarui
No Vacancies
2
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Posted - 2014.11.21 07:22:53 -
[103] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Tosawa Komarui wrote:not sure if its possible but what if they increased the speed to go yellow in the scan threshold? that would let you ignore unwanted signatures much faster while still having to scan them down normally if you want them.
personally i approve of improving scan speeds, i dont have max scan skills but in my covops ship it can take over an hour to scan 40 signatures in a chain even if i am only looking for relic and wormholes, ignoring the rest. hey mate, if it's taking you an hour to scan 40 sigs i'm going to assume it's a technique/skill issue. contrary to popular belief, i'm all for helping the newer players out so here, maybe this will help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TisDb8c2aS4 it's old and semi out of date (scanning is far easier now) but the method, probe layout and general principles have not changed. the scanner I used in the video IS maxed out so dont expect to be as fast, you'll probably need 1 more pass on each sig on average, or you can set the inner probes to 1au which will give you similar hits but deviation will be a bigger issue. PS: MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Could people here state whether they're referring to scanning a system solo, or as part of a crew that scans a system together? I scan alone and in groups but regardless of which case it is I always scan every sig since it's generally easier and faster than actually coordinating the work *shrug*.
i dident see this earlier but ill give it a shot, thanks :) |
Aeryn Maricadie
Periphery Bound Dominatus Atrum Mortis
0
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Posted - 2014.11.21 10:50:18 -
[104] - Quote
I'd rather see other changes to scanning such as removing probes from D-scan (at least Core Probes, Combat probes may be a little much)
Probes on D-Scan? = POS up = No content |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
142
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:10:03 -
[105] - Quote
Aeryn Maricadie wrote:I'd rather see other changes to scanning such as removing probes from D-scan (at least Core Probes, Combat probes may be a little much)
Probes on D-Scan? = POS up = No content
Now THAT would be a monumental shift in WH gameplay. I'm not completely opposed, but I think it's a fairly extreme position. Furthermore, I think it would be extremely unlikely to be implemented, but vOv.
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1379
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:44:51 -
[106] - Quote
Aeryn Maricadie wrote:I'd rather see other changes to scanning such as removing probes from D-scan (at least Core Probes, Combat probes may be a little much)
Probes on D-Scan? = POS up = No content
Oh no! Please not, Probes on dscan as often as not means something to hunt!
Whilst making things less tiresome, (the OP) is a valid goal, making things just Hidden, does not encourage content, it just removes peoples reward for attentiveness.
Whilst making it easy to gank, ganking without combat, gets old, fast.
I would hate it for EVE to get to the point where we just get to hunt prey that has been blinded.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Alundil
Isogen 5
760
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Posted - 2014.11.21 17:59:07 -
[107] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Could people here state whether they're referring to scanning a system solo, or as part of a crew that scans a system together? I scan alone and in groups but regardless of which case it is I always scan every sig since it's generally easier and faster than actually coordinating the work *shrug*. Same here. Exception to this is if we're trying to rapidly scan out a chain and then each scout will just call out "sig xxx is a wh - jumping though" and the last scout in sys stays to complete the remaining scanning.
I'm right behind you
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Lee Janssen
Zero Fun Allowed
24
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Posted - 2014.11.22 08:25:16 -
[108] - Quote
Came expecting hilarity, was not disappointed. |
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