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Jurico Elemenohpe
Aliastra Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.11.20 02:40:18 -
[181] - Quote
ForTheEmpire2014 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dracvlad wrote: If there was no ganking, fleet miners would be in a Hulk and solo miners in a Mackinaw, but due to the ganking people are moving towards the Skiff, cause and effect basically.
If they were actually playing the game, and were at their keyboards, there would be no ganking. Cause and effect basically. If you say so... That's not an opinion. Ganks at belts are 100% avoidable. Yes, you can always log off and go do something else. Otherwise, there is no 100% in a game where even a titan can be killed by a pos. You are being overly simplistic. Or trolling. Or both. Not really.. Higgs rig (so you move slow), align out, use dscan, be tank fit, warp out if someone starts scanning you or there are catalysts on dscan, browse killboards and -10 all gankers you can find, warp out when one of those is in system. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10673
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Posted - 2014.11.20 03:07:52 -
[182] - Quote
ForTheEmpire2014 wrote:Yes, you can always log off and go do something else. Otherwise, there is no 100% in a game where even a titan can be killed by a pos. You are being overly simplistic. Or trolling. Or both.
Or... D-scan. Yeah, that.
Ganking in a belt is 100% avoidable. But it does require you to actually be at the keyboard, and playing the game more than 1/4th of your ass.
I would ask you "do you even play this game?", but since you seem to be a miner, I already know that the answer is no.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Michael Ruckert
SECURE TRANSPORTS
218
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Posted - 2014.11.20 03:22:48 -
[183] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:While you can't actually run L4s in a Skiff, that's not hyperbole by much.
I have run L3s in one before, shortly after the drone damage buff.
I run L4 security missions in a tanked and rigged Procurer with max drone skills. Not having any problems getting the job done. Just takes a bit longer than conventional PvP ships.
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
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GreenSeed
1196
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Posted - 2014.11.20 03:39:19 -
[184] - Quote
the yield is too high, that's all, the last buff that gave a new low slot was completely uncalled for. but, it also reveals that CCP wants highsec miners not to get ganked. so that's pretty much it.
arguing that the skiff is immortal in hsec will simply get the silent response from CCP of "working as intended". the only argument i see here to be made, is to say that there's no tradeoff for the safety of the skiff, and no the "low" cargo space is not a tradeoff.
the skiff has a fantastic yield, great mobility, amazing tank, can respond to gankers by simply dropping two sentries 20km away and having them blap any gankers that agress. if CCP clearly wants the tank and yield to be there, then i suggest you stop bitching about it, and start bitching about the Mass of the ship instead.
as it is now, the Skiff cant get ganked, and cant get bumped. and the tank and drones have little to do with it, the reason is simple, 10m mass... this means that a 1mn MWD already produces enough thrust to make the ship impossible to keep in optimal/track for cats, and impossible to bump for stabs. and the skiff can perma run it, along with all the tank in the world.
if anything that's the main offender here, the mass is just too small, this makes "interacting" with the ship too much of a hassle. (and by interacting i mean killing it) |
ForTheEmpire2014
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.11.20 04:09:10 -
[185] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I would ask you "do you even play this game?", but since you seem to be a miner, I already know that the answer is no.
Ad-hominems always win the debate.
And your assumptions are just... wrong.
Empire Space is worth fighting for.
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
197
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Posted - 2014.11.20 04:36:26 -
[186] - Quote
Michael Ruckert wrote:I run L4 security missions in a tanked and rigged Procurer with max drone skills. Why?
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
512
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Posted - 2014.11.20 08:04:14 -
[187] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:ForTheEmpire2014 wrote:Yes, you can always log off and go do something else. Otherwise, there is no 100% in a game where even a titan can be killed by a pos. You are being overly simplistic. Or trolling. Or both. Or... D-scan. Yeah, that. Ganking in a belt is 100% avoidable. But it does require you to actually be at the keyboard, and playing the game more than 1/4th of your ass. I would ask you "do you even play this game?", but since you seem to be a miner, I already know that the answer is no.
If trolling with absolutes makes you feel important and special keep at it
Ella's Snack bar
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Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra Gallente Federation
145
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Posted - 2014.11.20 12:17:50 -
[188] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:the yield is too high, that's all, the last buff that gave a new low slot was completely uncalled for. but, it also reveals that CCP wants highsec miners not to get ganked. so that's pretty much it.
arguing that the skiff is immortal in hsec will simply get the silent response from CCP of "working as intended". the only argument i see here to be made, is to say that there's no tradeoff for the safety of the skiff, and no the "low" cargo space is not a tradeoff.
the skiff has a fantastic yield, great mobility, amazing tank, can respond to gankers by simply dropping two sentries 20km away and having them blap any gankers that agress. if CCP clearly wants the tank and yield to be there, then i suggest you stop bitching about it, and start bitching about the Mass of the ship instead.
as it is now, the Skiff cant get ganked, and cant get bumped. and the tank and drones have little to do with it, the reason is simple, 10m mass... this means that a 1mn MWD already produces enough thrust to make the ship impossible to keep in optimal/track for cats, and impossible to bump for stabs. and the skiff can perma run it, along with all the tank in the world.
if anything that's the main offender here, the mass is just too small, this makes "interacting" with the ship too much of a hassle. (and by interacting i mean killing it)
The last part is where you are wrong, anything can be ganked and the Skiff is no exception, it can even be ganked with positive isk efficiency. It's just takes several times the firepower than other barges/xumers. It is the hardest to bump ship due to it's mobility in theory but 99% of the Skiffs I encounter are stationary in belt or ice field, which makes bumping easy in most cases. Only after you get their attention by being bumped out of range they might wise up, some do, some don't, some simply dock (which is fine too as it stops them mining).
A MWD will also not save you as any standard gankalyst packs a scram, that disables not only you warpdrive but also your MWD. An afterburner would not help either. Any attempt at skiff gank will require multiple ships, you would need 2 webs at most to slow it down enough.
In conclusion, the SKiff's mobility is not it's most unbalanced feature, it's the yield.
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1001
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 15:08:47 -
[189] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:Michael Ruckert wrote:I run L4 security missions in a tanked and rigged Procurer with max drone skills. Why?
Why not?
I do it sometimes for the lolz (altho I use a Procuror and run L3's...)
Also its hilarious when someone scans you down, jumps into the mission, and then promptly dies from the rats.......
It's also hilarious to see the dreaded Battle Skiff fleet roaming in low/null, searching for prey......:) With Battle Hauler support..:)
As for the OP's situation (lots of Skiffs, a freighter and an Orca), the solution is simple.
Ganking all the Skiffs would be...problematic.....even if you had the manpower and the ISK.
If you can gank only a single ship, kill the freighter, and keep killing the freighter, over and over again. If they stop using the freighter, pop the Orca, etc.
Note you are going to need several buddies or multi/IS box to make these ganks work. And you are definitely going to need to pull CONCORD.
Popping any MTU's they try and use is also recommended, he might actually engage you with some of the Skiffs.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
137
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 16:49:00 -
[190] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Thomas Mayaki wrote: Skiffs aren't actually immune from ganking you know and if price is not a balancing point I would suggest the gankers use brutixes/talos to gank skiffs rather than the cheap catalysts which they mainly use now.
Skiffs are of course not literally immune, but they are effectively immune. Your suggestion is appreciated, but no ganker is going to commit the cost of multiple Brutix or Talos ships for an unprofitable gank. The Skiff is already quite unprofitable (the expected loot drop comes nowhere near the cost of the gank ships) to gank with Catalysts, and this only gets worse as you use more expensive gank ships. This unprofitability is why the Skiff is effectively immune from ganking, and why only 4 have been lost this month to suicide ganks in all of New Eden. I guarantee, and this comes from an experienced ganker's prospective, the only way you are going to loose one of these to a suicide gank is if you **** someone off enough to absorb the loss, and go to the non-trivial effort to gather several gankers together to target you specifically, or you are astronomically unlucky and are exploded by someone with deep SRP pockets (like CODE.) trying to make a point. Ok, you could also do something extremely stupid like pimp it out with a billion ISK of faction mods and make yourself a target. This is why they don't die. And since the yield is practical the same (Mack), or only slightly less (Hulk), this is exactly why you should fly only Skiffs (or a Procurer if you don't have the skills). But this is also why the other exhumers need a balancing look so there is actually a choice in which one to use in highsec. Keep in mind many Skiff pilots do not fit the Damage Control to their ships and many failfit it altogether regarding mids/rigs. A well fit Skiff without the DC would have about 58xx EHP while the typical fit has something more like 50xx. They aren't too hard to gank with a handful of buddies in fleet. Not profitable but can be done (easily) with positive KB efficiency. https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=25816660 .
The fitting on the kill you linked has a very poor fitting. It could have had another CDFE rig. Also it should have had Thermic T2 amplifier & a Kinetic T2 amplifier instead of the AB & the invulnerability field. Then far more catalysts would have been needed. If a DC II was put on as well even more catalysts would have been needed.
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
137
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Posted - 2014.11.20 17:11:37 -
[191] - Quote
Jurico.[/quote wrote:Not really.. Higgs rig (so you move slow), align out, use dscan, be tank fit, warp out if someone starts scanning you or there are catalysts on dscan, browse killboards and -10 all gankers you can find, warp out when one of those is in system.
Ah. My targets that were the inspiration for this OP are fitted with that Higgs rig. I had never heard of or seen it before. |
Selexid
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
95
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 21:03:25 -
[192] - Quote
TLDR: wannabe gankers/gankers tears. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
156
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 21:40:50 -
[193] - Quote
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:GreenSeed wrote:the yield is too high, that's all, the last buff that gave a new low slot was completely uncalled for. but, it also reveals that CCP wants highsec miners not to get ganked. so that's pretty much it.
arguing that the skiff is immortal in hsec will simply get the silent response from CCP of "working as intended". the only argument i see here to be made, is to say that there's no tradeoff for the safety of the skiff, and no the "low" cargo space is not a tradeoff.
the skiff has a fantastic yield, great mobility, amazing tank, can respond to gankers by simply dropping two sentries 20km away and having them blap any gankers that agress. if CCP clearly wants the tank and yield to be there, then i suggest you stop bitching about it, and start bitching about the Mass of the ship instead.
as it is now, the Skiff cant get ganked, and cant get bumped. and the tank and drones have little to do with it, the reason is simple, 10m mass... this means that a 1mn MWD already produces enough thrust to make the ship impossible to keep in optimal/track for cats, and impossible to bump for stabs. and the skiff can perma run it, along with all the tank in the world.
if anything that's the main offender here, the mass is just too small, this makes "interacting" with the ship too much of a hassle. (and by interacting i mean killing it) The last part is where you are wrong, anything can be ganked and the Skiff is no exception, it can even be ganked with positive isk efficiency. It's just takes several times the firepower than other barges/xumers. It is the hardest to bump ship due to it's mobility in theory but 99% of the Skiffs I encounter are stationary in belt or ice field, which makes bumping easy in most cases. Only after you get their attention by being bumped out of range they might wise up, some do, some don't, some simply dock (which is fine too as it stops them mining). A MWD will also not save you as any standard gankalyst packs a scram, that disables not only you warpdrive but also your MWD. An afterburner would not help either. Any attempt at skiff gank will require multiple ships, you would need 2 webs at most to slow it down enough. In conclusion, the SKiff's mobility is not it's most unbalanced feature, it's the yield.
The skiff is going to coast out of the catalysts optimal even with a scram. They move reasonably fast at base and are agile enough to reach max speed quickly.
Realistically, you are going to need to bring webs too AND get a really good warpin to kill this thing. |
GreenSeed
1198
|
Posted - 2014.11.20 23:22:28 -
[194] - Quote
if the skiff is static then yeah, but you missed the part where i said the skiff can perma run the mwd. you cant get a warp in. end of gank.
with a Zor Hyper link the skiff can boat around at about 480ms. if hes on a 5km orbit around something you will never get a kill on it. and in the time you boat to him to engage faction police is already spawned. (-10 woes) |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 00:17:20 -
[195] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote: The skiff is going to coast out of the catalysts optimal even with a scram. They move reasonably fast at base and are agile enough to reach max speed quickly.
Realistically, you are going to need to bring webs too AND get a really good warpin to kill this thing.
At all level 5 a cata beats a Skiff at base speed, sso no issues there. Again, even a naked Skiff will require at least 3 catas, you only need 1 point so that leaves 5 mid slots for web. That's enough to bring antything to an effective stand still.
GreenSeed wrote:if the skiff is static then yeah, but you missed the part where i said the skiff can perma run the mwd. you cant get a warp in. end of gank.
with a Zor Hyper link the skiff can boat around at about 480ms. if hes on a 5km orbit around something you will never get a kill on it. and in the time you boat to him to engage faction police is already spawned. (-10 woes) 99% of SKiffs are static, don't ask ME why, ask the dumbasses that are static or are orbitting their orca at 500m. As for the speed, read my above comment. If you are going to gank a Skiff, chances are you are going for overkill since you can't get an exact number on their tank (you don't know the pilot's skills, you don't know the squad boosters skills and you don't know if he has an off grid command link booster (if you did youre homework you will know if he has an ON grid command link booster).
You'll have webs a plenty (you only need one or two), everyone else can bring catas with afterburners (or Zor hyper links) and get or keep in range whitin mere seconds. Since any sane person would bring a few 'overkill' ships into a SKiff gank that still means a Skiff can be ganked. It just requires more effort (more than it's worth really but that's beside the point of your argument). So yes, they are 'effectively' gank immune but can still be ganked.
Again, in the spirit of this thread, it's not about the Skiff being so hard to gank, it's about the Skiff being so hard to gank and still be so good at everything else in general and having a yield that is on par witht that of a Mackinaw. |
Ormand Audel
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 00:24:18 -
[196] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:if the skiff is static then yeah, but you missed the part where i said the skiff can perma run the mwd. you cant get a warp in. end of gank.
with a Zor Hyper link the skiff can boat around at about 480ms. if hes on a 5km orbit around something you will never get a kill on it. and in the time you boat to him to engage faction police is already spawned. (-10 woes) What's the difference between that and a hulk with a 10k orbit and 10mn mwd? You'd never get a successful warpin without webs.. Which you could also use against the skiff? |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
69
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 01:53:54 -
[197] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:The fitting on the kill you linked has a very poor fitting. It could have had another CDFE rig. Also it should have had Thermic T2 amplifier & a Kinetic T2 amplifier instead of the AB & the invulnerability field. Then far more catalysts would have been needed. If a DC II was put on as well even more catalysts would have been needed.
It does have a poor fitting. That is exactly my point. This is how miners typically fit their Skiff so ganking them is many times not at all difficult.
With the fitting you've described and fleet boosts you'd be looking at 100xx EHP. Still very gankable, only 8 Cats needed.
Ormand Audel wrote:GreenSeed wrote:if the skiff is static then yeah, but you missed the part where i said the skiff can perma run the mwd. you cant get a warp in. end of gank.
with a Zor Hyper link the skiff can boat around at about 480ms. if hes on a 5km orbit around something you will never get a kill on it. and in the time you boat to him to engage faction police is already spawned. (-10 woes) What's the difference between that and a hulk with a 10k orbit and 10mn mwd? You'd never get a successful warpin without webs.. Which you could also use against the skiff? E: NVM, just checked and barges don't have the PG for 10mn mods. Well, thanks for another method to tank a skiff. [Skiff, speed+buffer anti hybrid] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II 1MN Microwarpdrive II Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Strip Miner I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I You can fit a 10MN AB and go even quicker, and scram does nothing . They can still be webbed down though. Their orbit is fairly predictable too, a gank fleet 200km off grid can warp in on a scout and land with good range.
The Skiff is not at all ungankable if AFK, and I mean not close to ungankable. 8 Cat fleet that doesn't suck should have no problem taking one day even with the AB and orbit.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra Gallente Federation
153
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 10:53:27 -
[198] - Quote
Ormand Audel wrote:GreenSeed wrote:if the skiff is static then yeah, but you missed the part where i said the skiff can perma run the mwd. you cant get a warp in. end of gank.
with a Zor Hyper link the skiff can boat around at about 480ms. if hes on a 5km orbit around something you will never get a kill on it. and in the time you boat to him to engage faction police is already spawned. (-10 woes) What's the difference between that and a hulk with a 10k orbit and 10mn mwd? You'd never get a successful warpin without webs.. Which you could also use against the skiff? E: NVM, just checked and barges don't have the PG for 10mn mods. Well, thanks for another method to tank a skiff. [Skiff, speed+buffer anti hybrid] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II 1MN Microwarpdrive II Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Strip Miner I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I As I explained above, your MWD can be disabled by scrams. You don't even need to sacrifice a catalyst if you don't want to, you can have a noob alt in a noob ship with web and scram holding you down while the rest of the fleet warps in, which will be bringing their own scrams and webs. As I stated b4, that's a lot of trbl for ganking a 200ish million ship so it will not happen often (or at all) but it CAN be done, everyone flying a Skiff would be wise to remember that. |
Lee Nolan
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:11:24 -
[199] - Quote
Can be done but probably won't be. Too much trouble for no gain whatsoever. Maybe if you really want to kill some guy running his mouth in local, but meh. Why bother when 10km from him is a Hulk or Mackinaw with almost no tank and doesn't require eft warrior mode and seven of your buddies all perfectly executing a strategy? A Skiff's tank is also the lack of tank in the ships around him. You don't have to outrun the bear. You just have to outrun your fat out of shape friend. Apologies to the exercise challenged. |
ForTheEmpire2014
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2014.11.21 15:26:29 -
[200] - Quote
The problem isn't the Skiff. The real problem is (still) the NPC corp issue.
Skiffs get 'sploded every day. One poor mechanic doesn't mean you nerf the other. If that were fixed we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place, would we?
Empire Space is worth fighting for.
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
139
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Posted - 2014.11.21 16:40:45 -
[201] - Quote
ForTheEmpire2014 wrote:The problem isn't the Skiff. The real problem is (still) the NPC corp issue.
Skiffs get 'sploded every day. One poor mechanic doesn't mean you nerf the other. If that were fixed we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place, would we?
The ability for any capsuleer to stay in permamently or revert to membership of an NPC corporation should be disabled once a capsuleer is two months old. That's my two penneth on that chestnut. That change could be added to an improved NPE if we ever get one.
But the NPC corp issue compounds the situation but doesn't alter the fact that the Skiffs statistics need revising. The most recent rebalancing of the mining vessels was mainly done to stop the Mackinaw being 'go to' ship type for mining. The combined changes from that same rebalancing made the Skiff the 'best ship' although most miners haven't clicked that this is the case yet. One of CCPs core principles is that all ships have roles and there are no 'best ships' so the Skiff stats need to be changed.
Skiffs rarely get 'exploded' except if they are under wardec conditions. So many ships/pilots are required that it makes more sense, even not taking ISK into consideration, to attack a Freighter or Orca instead. I originally started this discussion on the basis of an EHP reduction but I now concur with others that a reduction in yield for the Skiff would lessen the damage it does to rocks. It would also remove it's current status as the 'best ship' for mining which would bring the Skiff back into the role based system. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
207
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Posted - 2014.11.21 18:37:50 -
[202] - Quote
This is amusing, a thread about the inability for people to suicide gank miners in high sec.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
161
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Posted - 2014.11.21 19:58:55 -
[203] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:ForTheEmpire2014 wrote:The problem isn't the Skiff. The real problem is (still) the NPC corp issue.
Skiffs get 'sploded every day. One poor mechanic doesn't mean you nerf the other. If that were fixed we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place, would we? The ability for any capsuleer to stay in permamently or revert to membership of an NPC corporation should be disabled once a capsuleer is two months old. That's my two penneth on that chestnut. That change could be added to an improved NPE if we ever get one. But the NPC corp issue compounds the situation but doesn't alter the fact that the Skiffs statistics need revising. The most recent rebalancing of the mining vessels was mainly done to stop the Mackinaw being 'go to' ship type for mining. The combined changes from that same rebalancing made the Skiff the 'best ship' although most miners haven't clicked that this is the case yet. One of CCPs core principles is that all ships have roles and there are no 'best ships' so the Skiff stats need to be changed. Skiffs rarely get 'exploded' except if they are under wardec conditions. So many ships/pilots are required that it makes more sense, even not taking ISK into consideration, to attack a Freighter or Orca instead. I originally started this discussion on the basis of an EHP reduction but I now concur with others that a reduction in yield for the Skiff would lessen the damage it does to rocks. It would also remove it's current status as the 'best ship' for mining which would bring the Skiff back into the role based system.
The NPC corp issue should be solved through created better benefits for being in a corp. For most players, everything you get out of a corp could be gotten through a one man corp, mail list and private channel. I would like to see better benefits(simplest way would just be give very minor boosts to missioning, mining and ratting that have a monthly corp fee attached, so players are encouraged to group up and split the fee). |
GordonO
Brave Newbies Inc.
79
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Posted - 2014.11.24 01:45:26 -
[204] - Quote
No they are not..
Thanks goodness I didn't choose a career in ganking.. it seems soo damn hard to attack someone knowing where they are, how they are fit and what fleet effects may be in play... and... and.. and I would have to find some friends to help me.. CCP.. you need to fix this ASAP.. for the sake of alt gankers all over new eden..
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
492
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Posted - 2014.11.24 16:47:05 -
[205] - Quote
All high-sec ships are being balanced towards solo player vs CODE/CFC. If you're a lone pirate trying to make your mark, good luck to you.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3093
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Posted - 2014.11.24 19:38:54 -
[206] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:All high-sec ships are being balanced towards solo player vs CODE/CFC. If you're a lone pirate trying to make your mark, good luck to you.
Exactly all these highsec buffs hurt the newbies because they remove one entire profession from them. The mining barge ehp buff hurt the newbies.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
142
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Posted - 2014.11.25 10:38:33 -
[207] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Bethan Le Troix wrote:ForTheEmpire2014 wrote:The problem isn't the Skiff. The real problem is (still) the NPC corp issue.
Skiffs get 'sploded every day. One poor mechanic doesn't mean you nerf the other. If that were fixed we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place, would we? The ability for any capsuleer to stay in permamently or revert to membership of an NPC corporation should be disabled once a capsuleer is two months old. That's my two penneth on that chestnut. That change could be added to an improved NPE if we ever get one. But the NPC corp issue compounds the situation but doesn't alter the fact that the Skiffs statistics need revising. The most recent rebalancing of the mining vessels was mainly done to stop the Mackinaw being 'go to' ship type for mining. The combined changes from that same rebalancing made the Skiff the 'best ship' although most miners haven't clicked that this is the case yet. One of CCPs core principles is that all ships have roles and there are no 'best ships' so the Skiff stats need to be changed. Skiffs rarely get 'exploded' except if they are under wardec conditions. So many ships/pilots are required that it makes more sense, even not taking ISK into consideration, to attack a Freighter or Orca instead. I originally started this discussion on the basis of an EHP reduction but I now concur with others that a reduction in yield for the Skiff would lessen the damage it does to rocks. It would also remove it's current status as the 'best ship' for mining which would bring the Skiff back into the role based system. The NPC corp issue should be solved through created better benefits for being in a corp. For most players, everything you get out of a corp could be gotten through a one man corp, mail list and private channel. I would like to see better benefits(simplest way would just be give very minor boosts to missioning, mining and ratting that have a monthly corp fee attached, so players are encouraged to group up and split the fee).
I have no problem with an 'encouragement' for people to join player run corps. But I fear that it would not work and so the stick may bring better results than the carrot. |
ForTheEmpire2014
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.11.25 11:17:21 -
[208] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
I have no problem with an 'encouragement' for people to join player run corps. But I fear that it would not work and so the stick may bring better results than the carrot.
Want to solve the NPC character WD evasion-issue in a brutal, but highly effective manner?
Allow the ability to Wardec an NPC corp by joining the opposing Faction Warfare militia. Buff the Faction Police forces according to security rating of the system. -1.0 systems - cops are Grade-A, down to -0.5 systems - same as they are now
End results? NPC characters will only find security (even greater than they do now) in 1.0 systems. As they wish to venture out into lesser sec, the risks get progressively larger. Player-owned corps (which can be wardecced conventionally) see no difference. Concord mechanics need not be affected, as this is Warfare.
additionally, FW participants can also take to raiding opposing state systems (at progressively greater risk, of course) and blow up the opposing NPC characters. They are enemies of their state, after all. They could even offer their services, as a Para-Military Merc would, to deal with those pesky-NPC war dodgers...
Oh, and if you wish to visit the other trade hubs, you might want to check your Faction standings first.
Empire Space is worth fighting for.
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Zedutchman
The Miners of Hyperion
4
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Posted - 2014.11.25 15:14:09 -
[209] - Quote
I'm about as hard-core care beary as it gets. Ive' lost about 3 ships to code in the last 2 months....
However, I do think there needs to be some drastic changes to high-sec...... NPC corp mechanics..... And bot fleets in general.
Yes I lose ships but that's eve. It really is too damn easy for these huge bot/multi box fleets to do what-ever they want.
I know at one point CCP banned about 25% of their user base for botting. I'm curious to know when they decided that it's OK now. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
209
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Posted - 2014.11.25 15:52:48 -
[210] - Quote
Zedutchman wrote:I'm about as hard-core care beary as it gets. Ive' lost about 3 ships to code in the last 2 months....
However, I do think there needs to be some drastic changes to high-sec...... NPC corp mechanics..... And bot fleets in general.
Yes I lose ships but that's eve. It really is too damn easy for these huge bot/multi box fleets to do what-ever they want.
I know at one point CCP banned about 25% of their user base for botting. I'm curious to know when they decided that it's OK now.
I obviously don't have reliable stats, but I know for a fact that a player that is running botting software who I have reported several times using the 'report bot' feature is still merrily running them 23/7 in Procurers and has been for months. I am not sure if CCP staff cuts have reduced the number of people looking for botters, or the guy is just using a good macro program that leave no conclusive evidence, but it is frustrating to see someone blatantly cheating for so long go unpunished.
In any case, changes to NPC/player corp mechanics, and some changes to make mining less scalable by multiboxing, would go a long way to combating not only botters, but also the multiboxers that distort the economy so that "regular" players are unable to make a space living mining.
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