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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
144
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Posted - 2014.11.25 16:35:05 -
[211] - Quote
I agree with you wholeheartedly Zedutchman & Black Pedro as do a lot of the small miners I work for but it is very hard to combat them. I do my best to prevent them doing their dirty business. The OP here is about reducing the mining yield on Skiffs to bring the Skiff back in line with CCPs role based ship system. A additional benefit of this proposal is that it will lessen the damage of large 'afk' ISBoxer & bot mining fleets. I'm still waiting for a reply from a CCP dev on this issue. |
ForTheEmpire2014
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.11.26 02:35:35 -
[212] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:I agree with you wholeheartedly Zedutchman & Black Pedro as do a lot of the small miners I work for but it is very hard to combat them. I do my best to prevent them doing their dirty business. The OP here is about reducing the mining yield on Skiffs to bring the Skiff back in line with CCPs role based ship system. A additional benefit of this proposal is that it will lessen the damage of large 'afk' ISBoxer & bot mining fleets. I'm still waiting for a reply from a CCP dev on this issue.
With all due respect the OP is about nerfing the tank on Skiffs, and/or your options to deal with a large well managed NPC mining fleet:
"Are Skiffs overpowered insofar as given a certain scenario they are too difficult to move on or destroy"
Ima Wreckyou presented a reasonable counter to the fleet operation in post #10, whereby neutralizing the Orca by bumping alone disrupts the operation without having to resort to ganking or nerfing the Skiff. This was agreed to by the next series of posts, and It also remains unchallenged in this thread. Logically this leads to the conclusion that it is accepted as satisfying the OP.
Your OP has already been satisfied.
It was you who then derailed your own thread to try and make this debate about the mining yield of the Skiff. This is now no longer something for the C & P forum.
I would suggest that you create a new thread in GD or Ships & Modules to address the changes you would like to see in the Exhumer class ships.
Empire Space is worth fighting for.
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Kon Kre8r
Konz Korp
2
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Posted - 2014.12.13 21:02:27 -
[213] - Quote
While I would enjoy using Skiff -- U think Any Non-Capital industrial is hard to hard to kill? Take a moment to see what Any Marauder can do in terms of DPS -- Also you made no mention of them being supported by a Repping Fleet.
I hope you enjoy watching the Massive destructive capacity of say a Golem in action :) |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
199
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Posted - 2014.12.14 17:36:49 -
[214] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:Tear Jar wrote:Bethan Le Troix wrote:ForTheEmpire2014 wrote:The problem isn't the Skiff. The real problem is (still) the NPC corp issue.
Skiffs get 'sploded every day. One poor mechanic doesn't mean you nerf the other. If that were fixed we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place, would we? The ability for any capsuleer to stay in permamently or revert to membership of an NPC corporation should be disabled once a capsuleer is two months old. That's my two penneth on that chestnut. That change could be added to an improved NPE if we ever get one. But the NPC corp issue compounds the situation but doesn't alter the fact that the Skiffs statistics need revising. The most recent rebalancing of the mining vessels was mainly done to stop the Mackinaw being 'go to' ship type for mining. The combined changes from that same rebalancing made the Skiff the 'best ship' although most miners haven't clicked that this is the case yet. One of CCPs core principles is that all ships have roles and there are no 'best ships' so the Skiff stats need to be changed. Skiffs rarely get 'exploded' except if they are under wardec conditions. So many ships/pilots are required that it makes more sense, even not taking ISK into consideration, to attack a Freighter or Orca instead. I originally started this discussion on the basis of an EHP reduction but I now concur with others that a reduction in yield for the Skiff would lessen the damage it does to rocks. It would also remove it's current status as the 'best ship' for mining which would bring the Skiff back into the role based system. The NPC corp issue should be solved through created better benefits for being in a corp. For most players, everything you get out of a corp could be gotten through a one man corp, mail list and private channel. I would like to see better benefits(simplest way would just be give very minor boosts to missioning, mining and ratting that have a monthly corp fee attached, so players are encouraged to group up and split the fee). I have no problem with an 'encouragement' for people to join player run corps. But I fear that it would not work and so the stick may bring better results than the carrot.
I am(reluctantly) okay with people being able to earn isk in extremely safe environments so long as the isk is substantially worse than what risk takers can make.
If you want to mine in an alt corp with 100k ehp there should be serious yield trade offs over the guy with 20k ehp at risk of wardecs. |
Swirlar
Delainen Technologies
0
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Posted - 2014.12.20 09:18:39 -
[215] - Quote
All these hi-sec murderers want to convince CCP to make all ships insta-pop to catalysts, they are hurting the game by doing so.
The Skiff is not OP, its a very expensive ship, it takes a lot of time to skill completely for it, and it is easily killable by a ship of eqaul caliber.
The hi-sec murderers will have to actually pay money for real ships and take real losses to kill it.
What is needing a change is the Exhumer in general.
All Exhumers need to be upgraded so they can fit battleship sized modules. Large Shield Boosters, Large Extenders, etc. The ships were designed for 0.0 operation, have no weapons, and would be designed to tank a 0.0 battleship or two.
The current limited powergrid and cpu for fittings must be expanded to allow Large sized modules to be fitted.
Technology is supposed to advanced in a story line / time line, not go in reverse by nerfing technology to appease hi-sec murderers.
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Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion The Bloc
35
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Posted - 2014.12.20 10:46:43 -
[216] - Quote
Swirlar wrote:What is needing a change is the Exhumer in general.
All Exhumers need to be upgraded so they can fit battleship sized modules. Large Shield Boosters, Large Extenders, etc. The ships were designed for 0.0 operation, have no weapons, and would be designed to tank a 0.0 battleship or two.
The current limited powergrid and cpu for fittings must be expanded to allow Large sized modules to be fitted.
Technology is supposed to advanced in a story line / time line, not go in reverse by nerfing technology. Why do you think they were designed for 0.0 operation? And drones count as a weapon. And I think they weren't intended to mine alone in nullsec. From the "Mining barge (lore)" page from evelopedia, "For many years, miners relied on repurposed combat ships and a few specialized cruisers to harvest the vast asteroid belts of New Eden. These ships, while effective, suffered from numerous issues. Mining lasers required constant managing in order to maximize yield and small cargo holds meant only small hauls could be pulled in at one time. Mining frequently needed to be carried out in large teams; not only must there be miners and protective ships, but specialized haulers needed to carry the ore back to base." So now they don't need specialized haulers, just protective ships.
Also, from a devblog a couple of years ago: The Covetor and Hulk cater to group mining operations due to their large mining capability, low EHP and storage, forcing them to rely on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals. The Retriever and Mackinaw are specifically designed for autonomy purposes, as their large ore bays allow their pilot to stay inside an asteroid belt for longer without having to dock. The Procurer and Skiff are made for protection against suicide gank, or NPCs, by giving a large enough buffer to react to incoming attacks, while paying for that with a lower mining yield. |
Jaantrag
5
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Posted - 2014.12.21 17:00:19 -
[217] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:A
So in short I propose that the Skiff is currently overpowered and with the above scenario in place which is I daresay not uncommon. It's good for CCPs bank balance it is dare I say it 'game-breaking'. Ships have to be able to be destroyed in New Eden and this is disrupting the balance.
they are destroyable, just not as easly as one would destroy a covetor. why would the game make things easyer for the ganker, tho yea they are powerful for highsec .. but just enuf for low/null/wh-s ... i doupt peapole there go for maxed yield .. nerf the skiff and u get lot more cryes from thows peapole then right now some highsec gankers are putting out ..
not everything is easye as F1, f2 ... time for gankers to come up with new ideas to overcome the tanks ...
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Waltaratzor
Waltmart
21
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Posted - 2014.12.22 00:41:38 -
[218] - Quote
Jaantrag wrote:Bethan Le Troix wrote:A
So in short I propose that the Skiff is currently overpowered and with the above scenario in place which is I daresay not uncommon. It's good for CCPs bank balance it is dare I say it 'game-breaking'. Ships have to be able to be destroyed in New Eden and this is disrupting the balance.
they are destroyable, just not as easly as one would destroy a covetor. why would the game make things easyer for the ganker, tho yea they are powerful for highsec .. but just enuf for low/null/wh-s ... i doupt peapole there go for maxed yield .. nerf the skiff and u get lot more cryes from thows peapole then right now some highsec gankers are putting out .. not everything is easye as F1, f2 ... time for gankers to come up with new ideas to overcome the tanks ...
There unfortunately isn't a better option. I would love to see more options for gankers, but Concord and faction police invalidate anything other than "dps very fast".
Btw, skiff had the same yield as a Mackinaw. The only advantage of the Mackinaw is it's better for afk mining in super safe environments(like 1.0 space). |
Jaantrag
7
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Posted - 2014.12.22 09:53:35 -
[219] - Quote
gankers, ganking .. usaly silent "suicide" is implyed .. in eve usaly that from the ground up means u go against concord. if u dont wanna lose your ship to blow up another ship u have to be more creative .. plenty of options out there to annoy the target .. and u surely cant have a risk-free way to blow up another player ship in high security systems.
and if one skiff really needs to go to bed, then surely there is enuf gankers to join the force and fight the evil skiff.
as for the yield.. not sure how much yield the difrence between the ships are right now. but i doupt for max tank skiff one would use in low-null-wh is the same as a mack.
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Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion The Bloc
42
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Posted - 2014.12.22 10:29:16 -
[220] - Quote
Jaantrag wrote:gankers, ganking .. usaly silent "suicide" is implyed .. in eve usaly that from the ground up means u go against concord. if u dont wanna lose your ship to blow up another ship u have to be more creative .. plenty of options out there to annoy the target .. and u surely cant have a risk-free way to blow up another player ship in high security systems.
and if one skiff really needs to go to bed, then surely there is enuf gankers to join the force and fight the evil skiff.
as for the yield.. not sure how much yield the difrence between the ships are right now. but i doupt for max tank skiff one would use in low-null-wh is the same as a mack.
Not exactly the same, since the Skiff would fit a damage control. But they have the same base yield and the same amount of low slots (thus the same amount of fittable MLUs). |
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Leto Thule
Obsidian Cadre
1767
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Posted - 2014.12.22 17:11:26 -
[221] - Quote
Buff skiffs.
They need a fighter bay, the abity to fire doomsday type weapons at rocks to instamine them, and a cargo hold three times larger than a freighter. Also buff ehp by 120k.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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ForTheEmpire2014
Shoot The Messenger
36
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Posted - 2014.12.22 20:59:00 -
[222] - Quote
And then buff catalysts. Give them blaster cannons (with 99% reduction in cpu/pg), and extra low slots for tracking mods. Add a bonus to scram range and a drone bay for sentries too. Hisec will never be the same again
Empire Space is worth fighting for.
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Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion The Bloc
44
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Posted - 2014.12.23 13:45:10 -
[223] - Quote
Catalyst Role bonuses: 99.9% reduction to fitting requirement for large hybrids. 100% bonus to large hybrid turret optimal. 700% bonus to large hybrid turret damage. Per level of catalyst destroyer: 10% bonus to web effectiveness. 20% bonus to web range.
1 turret hardpoint 1 high slot. 4 mid slots. 8 low slots.
5* current CPU/pg And you can have your OP skiff. |
ForTheEmpire2014
Shoot The Messenger
36
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Posted - 2014.12.23 14:56:11 -
[224] - Quote
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Catalyst Role bonuses: 99.9% reduction to fitting requirement for large hybrids. 100% bonus to large hybrid turret optimal. 700% bonus to large hybrid turret damage. Per level of catalyst destroyer: 10% bonus to web effectiveness. 20% bonus to web range.
1 turret hardpoint 1 high slot. 4 mid slots. 8 low slots.
5* current CPU/pg And you can have your OP skiff.
The Catalyst - Jurico Edition
Empire Space is worth fighting for.
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Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
74
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:25:59 -
[225] - Quote
ISBoxing is dead in January.
/thread |
Tengu Grib
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
790
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:54:32 -
[226] - Quote
make polarized small blasters cost under 1 million each.
Sabriz for CSMX!
A vote for Tora is a Vote for a HS Theme Park.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
973
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Posted - 2014.12.23 19:22:43 -
[227] - Quote
Nerf the Skiff's ore hold to roughly Hulk levels and it's tank would be far more balanced. It's yield, which is similar to the Mackinaw's, is fine. The input multiplexing nerf will also help considerably.
Tengu Grib wrote:make polarized small blasters cost under 1 million each. They're down to 10mil apiece. Even BS-class Polarized blasters are only 40mil a pop now. Although, I don't think there's nearly enough supply to meet the kind of demand you'd like to wield.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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