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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10633
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:45:44 -
[31] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Allow capitals in highsec and those problems go away.
Please be my huckleberry (whatever that means).
"I'm your huckleberry" is most likely a reference to the movie Tombstone. It's said by Doc Holiday fairly frequently, when offering or accepting a gunfight.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
481
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:51:53 -
[32] - Quote
Elfi Wolfe wrote:Only thing I would ask to keep is that the official capitals of the the 4 empires, the 12 starting systems, the 12 career agents systems and routes between then can go no lower than .5 security.
I for one welcome our new Amarr overlords and Amarr Emperor Family Academy market hub.
Schrodinger's Hot Dropper
The Fate of Forum Alts
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Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:00:04 -
[33] - Quote
Wouldn't this completely destroy mission running?
Low and null sec systems do not run missions (at least not often, a few run lvl 5's) The majority are run in high sec space. If this were to happen it would almost entirely remove missions from the game or at least those willing to run them. Given that a decent portion of the game is made up by those who solely run missions wouldn't that be a little too much?
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Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
102
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:00:12 -
[34] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Because if a highsec area drops to lowsec, you put a capital in it, and then it becomes highsec again... ?
IIRC CCP didn't completely rule out the possibility of allowing capital ships into Highsec after they enabled them to jump gates. In the long run that might very well be what we're going to see ... One simple rule to keep balance in check would be to disallow capitals from activating any offensive/logistic etc. modules whatsoever, else concord steps in and blows you sky high (god that would be hilarious).
I think movable sec status would fit well into all that "the empires are loosing their grip on power"-thingy that CCP has been advertising. Seeing as nullsec is going towards occupancy sov anyways ... |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
969
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:06:28 -
[35] - Quote
capitals in high sec is bad idea mkay..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
179
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:11:01 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Leeloo wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Be careful what you ask for.
If you want dynamic security space, fine. Then where lots of pirates or anomolies are run the sec would climb as law asserted itself. Null constellations could (with effort) slowly become hisec. Nullbears would become nomadic as the fields they tilled slowly became barren as the pirates moved on and Concord moved in.
m OH GOD YES
Nooo! Think of the poor logistics nerds. The horror, the horror! |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1370
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:19:51 -
[37] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:A changing map would mean paying attention to 'road conditions' for haulers.
It would mean that industry might have to move as the security of the area changed (this happens in cities IRL)
It would make Blue donuts obsolete.
But oh, so many questions would need answering. What would happen to a supercap that suddenly found itself in a hisec system as the ground changed beneath its feet? Would owned stations suddenly shift to npc as the sov shifted to Concord? What activities would make the sov change and could an organized group use that to play a terrain type of warfare where they altered the enemies security space.
What makes Null NULL aside from a label on a map? What makes Jita hisec? These are question worth asking, not how the rules are now but how the rules could be. But do not try to just cherrypick your 'changing sov' for activities you don't approve of or to make for easier targets.
If mutable sov is something you want represented to CCP then I am your huckleberry but understand I will take it all the way or not at all.
m
Mike, although this idea appeals at many levels, especially where there is the opportunity to drop the hurt on (inserted hated playstyle or group here) there are a few issues that would need cleaning up first either way. You know what they are I believe if the minutes and hints dropped mean anything, but no one is unaware. That will enrage quite a few, loud, self entitled player communities quite enough. That will be a challange to deal with. The process is already underway in some matters, and will no doubt continue. So more? Not sure it is a good idea right now.
Wormhole Space is giving opportunities, as will the new space, and null will arrive there too. Possibly when the time is right.
Whilst shaking things up will always appeal to people (until it happens then they hate it) do not let that sway you. Do what is right for EVE, at the time that is right for EVE and all else will drop in place.
But I've got to agree regardless, the sheer mayhem would be hilarious, but my sensible side tells me that unfortunately the hangover would be somewhat unpleasant.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
266
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:39:30 -
[38] - Quote
While we're hi-jacking the thread to be about variable sec status I'd like to propose the following basic mechanics
1: Have a "native" sec status that the systems gravitate towards, which is similar to the current security of the space
2:Sec status only updates at DT, and pilots get a notification if the sec status of the space they are in changes during DT.
3: Mineral richness is now modified by sec status but not entirely determined by this, but uses a formula for units of a given ore in a belt along the lines of (((Richness * Current sec) / belts) * random mod) with a richness modifier that is independent for each mineral, and the random mod averaging out to ~1.0.
4: The NPE systems and all systems currently receiving newbie protection are locked as highsec, but may be pushed as low as .5.
5: Structures which require sov and end up pushed into HS are still owned by the corporation or alliance, and their standings apply to tax and refining, but no new jobs requiring sov may be started. Any service fees (less a cut of 10%ish to Concord) are paid to them, and stations are freeported. Gate guns do not aggress -10 players, but standard station guns do.
6: FW space becomes HS of the controlling faction if it becomes HS, even if it would otherwise be discontiguous.
7: Sov structures in highsec are valid targets under wardec, and may still only be anchored in null
8: All NPC null gets sov structures with sufficient NPC presence to require a medium large fleet with no bounty.
9: Players may launch sov structures for NPC factions during the cool-down timer on the respective faction's epic arc. If more than one epic arc is currently on cool down, this option launches it for the most recently completed faction.
10: Sec status is both positively and negatively affected by player actions.
Examples of positive sec status change: Pirate faction rats destroyed Large market volume Extremely high jump count Volume mined
Examples of negative sec status change: Non-Wardec PvP Empire faction rats destroyed Value of ships destroyed
11: The boundaries between types of space are much harder to move the sec status through.
12: Capital modules used in highsec result in a concordoken regardless of other crimewatch elements, but activate properly. Green/yellow safety disables these modules for your convenience.
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4418
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:46:05 -
[39] - Quote
I believe this can be made to work, although for proper rollout to not be flooded with negative assumptions, certain ground rules will need to be made clear.
The space would remain stable, so long as it was maintained as such. For empire systems, what we call high sec, the majority are being maintained as a static safe zone. I would point out that this needs to be stressed as safe, to stop fear mongering on the topic. (Yes, we would all get a good laugh if Jita lost Concord, but it would be too negative for the playerbase.) Basically, anything considered high sec at this time should always remain as such. I think newer systems can be discovered within the boundaries of traditional empire space, which can be modified, if this feels needed.
This would need to affect systems which were exclusively outside of current NPC empire influence. That means null sec, as well as possibly some areas of low sec.
If players worked WITH empires / NPC controls in low, then systems could raise or lower status accordingly. (Within a limited range) This could add whole new significance to Faction Warfare, I believe.
For null, I feel stability over long term would naturally erode the presence of NPC pirates, down to levels normally associated with high sec. I believe the same would apply to mineral content. I think that an area should become worn down by farming NPCs or asteroids, to the point where it becomes quite comparable to high sec space.
By the same logic, (in my opinion), an area allowed to go wild, and not have domesticating influences like regular player harvests, should see the return of the more powerful NPC pirates normally associated with null, as well as seeing the mineral values of the asteroids recover in quality over time.
I think there is a way to make this work, we simply need to define the variables in order to limit them in the interests of good play.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
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DaeHan Minhyok
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
29
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:50:09 -
[40] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Be careful what you ask for.
If you want dynamic security space, fine. Then where lots of pirates or anomolies are run the sec would climb as law asserted itself. Null constellations could (with effort) slowly become hisec. Nullbears would become nomadic as the fields they tilled slowly became barren as the pirates moved on and Concord moved in.
m As long as the ibcome scales, so the more u make the less you'll make in the future as your sec goes higher.
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Circumstantial Evidence
155
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:50:19 -
[41] - Quote
Let regular capitals (not supercaps) into highsec: but all fitted modules go offline. Unable to lock targets. Travel only. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
250
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:52:50 -
[42] - Quote
One idea had regarding fw was a systems sec status being influenced by neighbouring systems.
So for example if the caldari had an unbroken line of sov stretching from the edge of caldari high sec to old man star, if old man star which is a 0.3 system was to be captured it would be turned into a 0.2 system and any neighbouring systems would also have a reduction in sec status [due to instability in neighbouring systems] including any high sec ones like Villore, which would become a 0.4 system [as atm it is a 0.5]. The caldari could now capture Villore, as it was no longer a high sec system and fw plexes would suddenly start popping up in the system. Would a systems sec status become 0.0, if say there were enough system spokes around it that became captured?
Now you could raise a systems sec status by possibly defensive plexing, so old man star captured by the caldari could become a 0.3 again with enough defensive pelxing, then to a 0.4 maybe even turn it into high sec, though any specific low sec specifics like mordu legion npcs and clone soldiers and battleship spawns in belts would disappear.
Could even imagine people trying to turn Syndicate or Stain into high sec oasises in the middle of null. This might be off-topic a bit however fw plexes have npcs in them ^-^ |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4418
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:54:49 -
[43] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Let regular capitals (not supercaps) into highsec: but all fitted modules go offline. Unable to lock targets. Travel only. That sounds crude, but I think you might be onto something with this as the foundation.
The most common capital is the freighter or JF, in high sec. Perhaps they can gain expanded functionality outside high sec in the process?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1896
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:07:35 -
[44] - Quote
DaeHan Minhyok wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Be careful what you ask for.
If you want dynamic security space, fine. Then where lots of pirates or anomolies are run the sec would climb as law asserted itself. Null constellations could (with effort) slowly become hisec. Nullbears would become nomadic as the fields they tilled slowly became barren as the pirates moved on and Concord moved in.
m As long as the ibcome scales, so the more u make the less you'll make in the future as your sec goes higher.
Nah, the income should be that the max is when the space is in balance. Neither highest nor lowest sec. the average. That way overdoing it in EITHER direction has a negative effect on your isk flow.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Circumstantial Evidence
156
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:57:23 -
[45] - Quote
DaeHan Minhyok wrote:As long as the ibcome scales, so the more u make the less you'll make in the future as your sec goes higher. Mike Azariah wrote:Nah, the income should be that the max is when the space is in balance. Neither highest nor lowest sec. the average. That way overdoing it in EITHER direction has a negative effect on your isk flow.
m That would seem to encourage a particular number of pilots per system, similar to how Incursion fleet sizes are managed. What would happen to all the EMPTY SPACE in deep null?! |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1896
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Posted - 2014.11.17 22:32:41 -
[46] - Quote
Look up the concept of fallow fields. Places that were empty would slowly gain in value over time as their sec status drifted towards the 'perfect' isk level. The more people messed there in an unbalanced fashion the more it would drift from that 'best fit'.
This would make home conservation and protection a more organic thing because interlopers would offset the perfect balance.
Or you could accept the fact that you don't have the best fields but at least it is a busy hub.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
267
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Posted - 2014.11.17 22:50:04 -
[47] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Look up the concept of fallow fields. Places that were empty would slowly gain in value over time as their sec status drifted towards the 'perfect' isk level. The more people messed there in an unbalanced fashion the more it would drift from that 'best fit'.
This would make home conservation and protection a more organic thing because interlopers would offset the perfect balance.
Or you could accept the fact that you don't have the best fields but at least it is a busy hub.
m
Or to iterate on it, Trade hubs would end up valuable because of the volume of trade, while in general, you would need to rotate ratting and mining systems to let them end up pushed back toward to value the faster way, or try to manage how many of what kind of activities each system gets....
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4418
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Posted - 2014.11.17 22:54:14 -
[48] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Look up the concept of fallow fields. Places that were empty would slowly gain in value over time as their sec status drifted towards the 'perfect' isk level. The more people messed there in an unbalanced fashion the more it would drift from that 'best fit'.
This would make home conservation and protection a more organic thing because interlopers would offset the perfect balance.
Or you could accept the fact that you don't have the best fields but at least it is a busy hub.
m
Actually, that fits in almost exactly with what I suggested.
Nikk Narrel wrote: I think that an area should become worn down by farming NPCs or asteroids, to the point where it becomes quite comparable to high sec space.
By the same logic, (in my opinion), an area allowed to go wild, and not have domesticating influences like regular player harvests, should see the return of the more powerful NPC pirates normally associated with null, as well as seeing the mineral values of the asteroids recover in quality over time.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10639
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Posted - 2014.11.17 23:12:22 -
[49] - Quote
One problem I can foresee is that, regardless of how iterative the changes are, and how often, that you are basically taking verisimilitude out back and shooting it.
Why would the quality of ice or asteroids in a system one week be effected by how many people I shot at last week? Even in a game in which the resources respawn every morning, that strains credulity.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
76
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Posted - 2014.11.17 23:37:34 -
[50] - Quote
I'm rather digging this dynamic sec status idea.
What about PI and Moon-mining? I think that if this were implemented, than these two issues would need to be revisited, especially moon mining.
I guess that the raw materials from a planet would need to either remain static, or it would scale with the new sec status. If they were to remain static, then certain planets would be worth fighting for, but this would need ALL planets to be assigned a new ...resource value... in a random manner. Currently the lower the sec, the more abundant the planetary resources. If the planets were to be kept at a static value regardless of the sec status, then they become strategic areas that will bring conflict... only if one figures out how to take a planet away from a player. That's something that'll need to be looked into as well.
Having the planet value change with with the sec status would also generate conflict, just in a different way. Instead of attacking a player or the planet itself (if ever made possible via ships or infantry), the battlefield is over the sec status of the system itself. Resource full planets are in lower sec... or the opposite of the base-line.. whatever that is. This will generate conflict. If, like the CSM rep indicated, that there would be a 'perfect isk level' when dealing with rats, missions, and the like, then making planetary (and maybe moon) resources better when NOT in the 'perfect ISK' zone would be a content creation method. Now the players have a serious choice. Move the sec towards rat perfect, or move it towards planetary perfect.
As for moon mining, it should follow the same ideas as the planets with the obvious change of allowing moon-mining in all secs. Just make the resources good in planetary perfect, and horrid in rat perfect. This way, if a moon drops into HS (as it stands) then it will still produce something, and not be a complete wash.
Also, while it's fresh in my mind, How about charters in a POS? Especially if the system changes hands. How does that work in FW space when the system changes allegience?
--Gadget |
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Goochan derp
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.11.17 23:43:08 -
[51] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Be careful what you ask for.
If you want dynamic security space, fine. Then where lots of pirates or anomolies are run the sec would climb as law asserted itself. Null constellations could (with effort) slowly become hisec. Nullbears would become nomadic as the fields they tilled slowly became barren as the pirates moved on and Concord moved in.
m
cool concept but it will never happen lol |
Jenshae Chiroptera
511
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Posted - 2014.11.18 00:05:43 -
[52] - Quote
Gawain Edmond wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Be careful what you ask for.
If you want dynamic security space, fine. Then where lots of pirates or anomolies are run the sec would climb as law asserted itself. Null constellations could (with effort) slowly become hisec. Nullbears would become nomadic as the fields they tilled slowly became barren as the pirates moved on and Concord moved in.
m please tell me this is going to happen?
Considering the number of empty or nearly empty systems I see in high sec and null sec, there would be a lot of them taken over by huge swarms of pirates that would end up being raids and super fat cash cows to slaughter.
Ideas & stuff
EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Status: Bouncing on the diving board.
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Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
466
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Posted - 2014.11.18 01:25:37 -
[53] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:There shouldn't be any pirates in hisec, and Incursion should turn a hisec system into lowsec.
This!
Hades Effect /-áConflict Resolution /-áPirate Protection
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
62
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Posted - 2014.11.18 02:32:02 -
[54] - Quote
The whole concept is interesting. There are a large number of casual players in high sec, force them to move around as the sec status changes and most of the would quit, especially those who have been away from the game for a short while and returned to find there .5 system is now a .4 or a .3.
Not sure if these players quiting would be good or bad for the game but it is a risk that CCp would have to look at. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
511
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Posted - 2014.11.18 02:40:31 -
[55] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:The whole concept is interesting. There are a large number of casual players in high sec, force them to move around as the sec status changes and most of the would quit, especially those who have been away from the game for a short while and returned to find there .5 system is now a .4 or a .3.
Not sure if these players quiting would be good or bad for the game but it is a risk that CCp would have to look at.
The most annoying thing is moving multiple fitted and rigged ships. So, if this were implemented, I hope it comes with a huge paper bag to put them in and shift them in one go.
Ideas & stuff
EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Status: Bouncing on the diving board.
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1899
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Posted - 2014.11.18 03:05:16 -
[56] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Donnachadh wrote:The whole concept is interesting. There are a large number of casual players in high sec, force them to move around as the sec status changes and most of the would quit, especially those who have been away from the game for a short while and returned to find there .5 system is now a .4 or a .3.
Not sure if these players quiting would be good or bad for the game but it is a risk that CCp would have to look at. The most annoying thing is moving multiple fitted and rigged ships. So, if this were implemented, I hope it comes with a huge paper bag to put them in and shift them in one go.
One word
Bowhead
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Jenshae Chiroptera
511
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Posted - 2014.11.18 03:19:09 -
[57] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:One word: Bowhead
At least it was recent. However, it will doubtlessly need a lot of skill. I had in mind something that needed T1 battleship training time equivalents.
Ideas & stuff
EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down.
Status: Bouncing on the diving board.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
268
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Posted - 2014.11.18 04:05:44 -
[58] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:One word: Bowhead At least it was recent. However, it will doubtlessly need a lot of skill. I had in mind something that needed T1 battleship training time equivalents. Ore industrial 3 Advanceed spaceship command 5.
Little more than t1, but still on par with frieghters
Making battleships worth the warp
Tech 3 battleships.
Moar battleships
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication 404 Alliance Not Found
187
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Posted - 2014.11.18 04:17:13 -
[59] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Be careful what you ask for.
If you want dynamic security space, fine. Then where lots of pirates or anomolies are run the sec would climb as law asserted itself. Null constellations could (with effort) slowly become hisec. Nullbears would become nomadic as the fields they tilled slowly became barren as the pirates moved on and Concord moved in.
m Obviously, this system would not apply to Null sec or Low sec.
Clearly it would, in his mind, since his statement includes: "nullbears" which do not occur within High Sec. |
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
4091
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Posted - 2014.11.18 07:35:59 -
[60] - Quote
(ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED)
(posting in a decloaked "nerf hisec into tutorial only space" thread)
On the other hand, Hek would become very interesting as its sec fluctuates between high and low.
I'm a Snaper - imgur.com/8EHPPWU
mad? ( -í° -£-û -í°)
Hengle Teron > v(t) = dp / dt
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