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Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:26:23 -
[1] - Quote
Since there are are players that want to rebalance all defenseless ships in high sec I have a possible solution to this.
If CCP choose to listen to the ganker side of EVE they should also introduce a stackable GCC that should work like the jump fatigue mechanic. Maybe not exactly like the fatigue counter but it should give stackable punishment so gankers need to pick their victim instead of mass ganking as they do now. It's not fair that a ganker can travel high sec in his/her pod if sec status is -10 with no punishment at all. It's not fair that it pays that much to be a criminal and gank, die, repeat infinite since repeated criminal activity doesn't have any form of impact on the criminal player.
So some form of stackable GCC is needed to balance the criminals advantage they have today. Right now the defender is always the last part to pull the trigger since Concord protects criminal in an unfair way.
So if defenseless ships are being rebalanced this stackable is a good rebalance to the life of being a criminal in EVE.
/Fenix Neutrino |
loyalanon
The Conference Elite CODE.
506
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:45:05 -
[2] - Quote
Fenix Neutrino wrote:Since there are are players that want to rebalance all defenseless ships in high sec I have a possible solution to this.
If CCP choose to listen to the ganker side of EVE they should also introduce a stackable GCC that should work like the jump fatigue mechanic. Maybe not exactly like the fatigue counter but it should give stackable punishment so gankers need to pick their victim instead of mass ganking as they do now. It's not fair that a ganker can travel high sec in his/her pod if sec status is -10 with no punishment at all. It's not fair that it pays that much to be a criminal and gank, die, repeat infinite since repeated criminal activity doesn't have any form of impact on the criminal player.
So some form of stackable GCC is needed to balance the criminals advantage they have today. Right now the defender is always the last part to pull the trigger since Concord protects criminal in an unfair way.
So if defenseless ships are being rebalanced this stackable is a good rebalance to the life of being a criminal in EVE.
/Fenix Neutrino
I love these kinds of tears |
Paranoid Loyd
2663
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:45:06 -
[3] - Quote
Sigh, you obviously have no clue so I wont even try. Lets just leave it at no.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6964
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:45:24 -
[4] - Quote
what "problem" are you trying to solve again?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Foreman Yang
The Church of Gary Busey Spaceships in Space
10
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:51:50 -
[5] - Quote
Fenix Neutrino wrote:Since there are are players that want to rebalance all defenseless ships in high sec I have a possible solution to this.
If CCP choose to listen to the ganker side of EVE they should also introduce a stackable GCC that should work like the jump fatigue mechanic. Maybe not exactly like the fatigue counter but it should give stackable punishment so gankers need to pick their victim instead of mass ganking as they do now. It's not fair that a ganker can travel high sec in his/her pod if sec status is -10 with no punishment at all. It's not fair that it pays that much to be a criminal and gank, die, repeat infinite since repeated criminal activity doesn't have any form of impact on the criminal player.
So some form of stackable GCC is needed to balance the criminals advantage they have today. Right now the defender is always the last part to pull the trigger since Concord protects criminal in an unfair way.
So if defenseless ships are being rebalanced this stackable is a good rebalance to the life of being a criminal in EVE.
/Fenix Neutrino
Oh dear. Another nerf ganking thread. Contrary to what the general window licking population might lead you to believe, NO ship is ever completely defenseless. Hundreds of pages worth of comments have been made in these forums on how to defend yourself against ganks. You're right though. "It's not fair" that you should have to think while playing this game. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
754
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Posted - 2014.11.18 20:30:32 -
[6] - Quote
Fenix Neutrino wrote:It's not fair that a ganker can travel high sec in his/her pod if sec status is -10 with no punishment at all. This is a common misconception. Pilots at -5 and below travel through hisec at the risk of getting any ships they are piloting destroyed by NPCS or players, and the risk of having any pods destroyed by players as well. This severely limits their gameplay options to the point where pretty much all they can do in space in hisec is suicide gank; they can't stay in space in a ship long enough to effectively do anything else. That's a considerable punishment.
I find the rules of hisec rather poetic actually: suicide gank too much and eventually that's all you can do.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Renegade Heart
Holes Angels Gone Critical
284
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Posted - 2014.11.18 20:34:32 -
[7] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:the risk of having any pods destroyed by players as well
I shot the pod of an outlaw trying to dock up in a trade hub. He lost 2.4 billion isk worth of implants. How is that for punishment? |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3632
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Posted - 2014.11.18 21:09:07 -
[8] - Quote
Posts like this are a cancer on the forums, and require chemotherapy. Chemotherapy is painful.
The doctor in this case prescribes that three innocent carebears will be killed, and they will be told the ship losses are entirely due to this post. Maybe you will find it in your heart to reimburse their losses.
www.minerbumping.com - Mining accidents are increasing. Get your permit now.
Ganking doesn't need a purpose, the gank is its own purpose.
You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I gank.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
287
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Posted - 2014.11.18 22:06:07 -
[9] - Quote
Agree with OP...should be much harsher consequences for repeat criminals. Instead of 15 minutes, how about 15 hours for -10s? |
Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.18 22:54:28 -
[10] - Quote
Yes, try to get me angry and see if I really get angry? That just shows what ppl that plays EVE.
But on topic.
Why is it fair that -10 sec stat can travel freely in pod without Concord or police to intercept? Why is it fair that repeated criminal behaviour wihtin a time frame is not stacked together?
It's really to easy today to be a criminal, you have nothing that force you to select your target before gank. You can mass gank and that's wrong. If you want to mass gank, go to null or something. In high sec it should be harder for mass ganks that are repeated over and over again with the same character etc.
As soon as someone try to talk about a problem that exists that gives gankers an unfair advantage they puke all over their computers.
Why don't you want a fair game on booth parts? What are you afraid of if you need to think about the victim before a gank? Yes, you can't gank all day long and why should you be able to do that when in high sec?
If there is a problem with tanked mining ships that you so eager want to nerf why shouldn't the criminal GCC have a look? |
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Michael Ignis Archangel
Caveat Emptor Technologies LP Spaceship Samurai
56
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:07:14 -
[11] - Quote
Fine then, on topic.
Fenix Neutrino wrote: Why is it fair that -10 sec stat can travel freely in pod without Concord or police to intercept?
Because no NPC's pod you. Has been forever-ever. Next.
Fenix Neutrino wrote: Why is it fair that repeated criminal behaviour wihtin a time frame is not stacked together?
Incorrect. It is. You're unable to fly a ship in high-sec for 15 minutes. The time frame is 15 minutes. Next.
Fenix Neutrino wrote: It's really to easy today to be a criminal,
Really? Enthrall me with your attempts and mastery of it.
Fenix Neutrino wrote: You can mass gank and that's wrong.
The mass ganking of NPC's continues unabated. Think of the red crosses' children!
Fenix Neutrino wrote: If you want to mass gank, go to null or something. In high sec it should be harder for mass ganks that are repeated over and over again with the same character etc.
As soon as someone try to talk about a problem that exists that gives gankers an unfair advantage they puke all over their computers.
Why don't you want a fair game on booth parts? What are you afraid of if you need to think about the victim before a gank? Yes, you can't gank all day long and why should you be able to do that when in high sec?
If there is a problem with tanked mining ships that you so eager want to nerf why shouldn't the criminal GCC have a look?
Oh dear, I've run out of quotes.
All of Eve is unsafe. The lack of safety has different manifestations, and different counters to them.
The game is fair - the smarter, more knowledgeable, better-prepared, and more extensively allied win.
You do have to select your targets - an untanked Covetor versus a brick-Skiff require vastly different approaches.
Working as intended, wise up, dropping mic now. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21546
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fenix Neutrino wrote:Yes, try to get me angry and see if I really get angry? That just shows what ppl that plays EVE.
But on topic.
Why is it fair that -10 sec stat can travel freely in pod without Concord or police to intercept? Why is it fair that repeated criminal behaviour wihtin a time frame is not stacked together? What is this fair you're talking about? What harm can a -10 do with a pod? Why should GCC timers stack? At most a ganker can hit 4 targets an hour, they're probably outside for less than 5 minutes in any one hour.
Quote:It's really to easy today to be a criminal, you have nothing that force you to select your target before gank. You can mass gank and that's wrong. If you want to mass gank, go to null or something. In high sec it should be harder for mass ganks that are repeated over and over again with the same character etc. If it's so easy why are there so few doing it?
Quote:As soon as someone try to talk about a problem that exists that gives gankers an unfair advantage they puke all over their computers. Everybody has the same tools, the problem that you see as an unfair advantage isn't a game problem it's a people problem. The advantage that gankers have largely disappears when people tank their ships, don't go afk/ AP
Quote:Why don't you want a fair game on booth parts? What are you afraid of if you need to think about the victim before a gank? Yes, you can't gank all day long and why should you be able to do that when in high sec? Why shouldn't it go on in highsec? Highsec is where all the loot is, highsec is where the people who can't be bothered to be ATK, refuse to tank their ships and use autopilot are.
Quote:If there is a problem with tanked mining ships that you so eager want to nerf why shouldn't the criminal GCC have a look? I love my Skiff and Procurer, they're basically Volvo's, with drones.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1806
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:12:55 -
[13] - Quote
Freaking news flash:
Criminal activity in EVE is a type of gameplay, it is intended for people to be able to do it. It is not an actual crime.
If the point was for people to not engage in criminal activity CCP could trivially remove the ability of players to shoot eachother in whatever type of place they wanted to. Also seeing as you clearly have no god damned idea how gankers actually behave I suggest trying "mass ganking" random targets and seeing how profitable that actually is. |
Paranoid Loyd
2663
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:25:32 -
[14] - Quote
Fenix Neutrino wrote:Yes, try to get me angry and see if I really get angry? That just shows what ppl that plays EVE. You are obviously already angry, we don't need to try. All this shows is in EVE there are the players that whine and the players that laugh at them. You are whining we are laughing at you.
As has been suggested go try to gank and come back and demonstrate to us how easy it is, until then you have no say in the matter.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:26:56 -
[15] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Freaking news flash:
Criminal activity in EVE is a type of gameplay, it is intended for people to be able to do it. It is not an actual crime.
If the point was for people to not engage in criminal activity CCP could trivially remove the ability of players to shoot eachother in whatever type of place they wanted to. Also seeing as you clearly have no god damned idea how gankers actually behave I suggest trying "mass ganking" random targets and seeing how profitable that actually is.
So you really think that just because they allow criminal activity as a part of the game it should never change at all? I think boot sides need a constant look at all mechanics etc.
As long as one part tries to keep the other part silent there will be no fair game play. I listen all kind of sides in EVE so this was just a suggestion from me. |
Sasha Cohenberg
The Conference Elite CODE.
0
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:30:22 -
[16] - Quote
Why should we get stackable timers for whenever we want to pvp. It's bad enough already that I have to wait 15 minutes to engage another honorable warrior in space bushido. |
Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 23:30:39 -
[17] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Fenix Neutrino wrote:Yes, try to get me angry and see if I really get angry? That just shows what ppl that plays EVE. You are obviously already angry, we don't need to try. All this shows is in EVE there are the players that whine and the players that laugh at them. You are whining we are laughing at you. As has been suggested go try to gank and come back and tell us how easy it is.
That's good ;) Keep laughing and we might get a better world.
I'm not a criminal so that will never happen.
And still, it was just a suggestion and nothing else so keep the whining to yourself ;) |
Paranoid Loyd
2663
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:34:25 -
[18] - Quote
Fenix Neutrino wrote:it was just a suggestion Based off your grossly ignorant misrepresentation of reality. Learn how the mechanics work before you pass judgement. If you took the time to learn the mechanics you would understand it is balanced, more so now than ever.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:37:08 -
[19] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Fenix Neutrino wrote:it was just a suggestion Based off your grossly ignorant misrepresentation of reality. Learn how the mechanics work before you pass judgement. If you took the time to learn the mechanics you would understand it is balanced, more so now than ever.
And it's not that's why I came with that suggestion. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1806
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:42:40 -
[20] - Quote
The game has over the years constantly changed in favor of harsher and harsher penalties for gankers. The penalties that exist now are more severe than they have ever been and concord has always gotten more and more powerful, in fact it's literally against the rules to not be killed by them.
There aren't even two sides to it, ganking has never gotten buffed, concord hasn't evern had its response times increased or capabilities reduced, just more penalties, more effective concord, shorter response times, nowadays you're even magically prevented from warping while GCC. Ganking for profit is much, much more difficult and expensive than it was even a few years ago.
Gankers have endured more direct nerfs to their playstyle than any other group of players in the game, the fact that they continue to make a profit in spite of that is a testament to their dedication and you don't find them endlessly whining on the forums to get the game changed to penalize other players because they dislike their gameplay style.
Those people are freaking saints. They take an endless shitting on from CCP and rather than complaining about it they adapt and soldier on, all the while other people who don't respect their right to play the game how they please petition CCP to make the game worse for the gankers.
Shove off, and take your desire to have other people arbitrarily punished for playing the game in a way you don't like back under whatever rocked you crawled from under. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21547
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:48:09 -
[21] - Quote
Fenix Neutrino wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Fenix Neutrino wrote:it was just a suggestion Based off your grossly ignorant misrepresentation of reality. Learn how the mechanics work before you pass judgement. If you took the time to learn the mechanics you would understand it is balanced, more so now than ever. And it's not that's why I came with that suggestion. How is it not balanced?
You can't just turn round and say it's not balanced without having a reasonable explanation of why you feel that way. As it is we have your opinion that "it's not fair"....
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:49:19 -
[22] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:The game has over the years constantly changed in favor of harsher and harsher penalties for gankers. The penalties that exist now are more severe than they have ever been and concord has always gotten more and more powerful, in fact it's literally against the rules to not be killed by them.
There aren't even two sides to it, ganking has never gotten buffed, concord hasn't evern had its response times increased or capabilities reduced, just more penalties, more effective concord, shorter response times, nowadays you're even magically prevented from warping while GCC. Ganking for profit is much, much more difficult and expensive than it was even a few years ago.
Gankers have endured more direct nerfs to their playstyle than any other group of players in the game, the fact that they continue to make a profit in spite of that is a testament to their dedication and you don't find them endlessly whining on the forums to get the game changed to penalize other players because they dislike their gameplay style.
Those people are freaking saints. They take an endless shitting on from CCP and rather than complaining about it they adapt and soldier on, all the while other people who don't respect their right to play the game how they please petition CCP to make the game worse for the gankers.
Shove off, and take your desire to have other people arbitrarily punished for playing the game in a way you don't like back under whatever rocked you crawled from under.
Since I don't even stay in high sec you can crawl back under the same rock as me ;)
Don't gankers whine?
There is a thread about Skiffs being to hard to kill for a solo ganker etc so yes they whine when they don't get what they want.
But we stop here and now.
I now know that you don't like the stacked GCC. |
Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:51:37 -
[23] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Fenix Neutrino wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Fenix Neutrino wrote:it was just a suggestion Based off your grossly ignorant misrepresentation of reality. Learn how the mechanics work before you pass judgement. If you took the time to learn the mechanics you would understand it is balanced, more so now than ever. And it's not that's why I came with that suggestion. How is it not balanced? You can't just turn round and say it's not balanced without having a reasonable explanation of why you feel that way. As it is we have your opinion that " it's not fair"....
If you are so eager to PvP just move to null or something.
But as I just said.
I get the point, you don't like the stacked GCC so we stop here and now. |
Paranoid Loyd
2663
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:54:29 -
[24] - Quote
It's not about like or don't like, its about making suggestions about mechanics you understand. You just said you don't live in high sec, so why do you think you have any right to comment on it's mechanics? You don't see me putting in my two cents about how sov should be, you know why? Because I know I am ignorant to how those mechanics currently work and am not in any position to have an opinion.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21547
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Posted - 2014.11.19 00:01:28 -
[25] - Quote
Fenix Neutrino wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Fenix Neutrino wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Fenix Neutrino wrote:it was just a suggestion Based off your grossly ignorant misrepresentation of reality. Learn how the mechanics work before you pass judgement. If you took the time to learn the mechanics you would understand it is balanced, more so now than ever. And it's not that's why I came with that suggestion. How is it not balanced? You can't just turn round and say it's not balanced without having a reasonable explanation of why you feel that way. As it is we have your opinion that " it's not fair".... If you are so eager to PvP just move to null or something. But as I just said. I get the point, you don't like the stacked GCC so we stop here and now. You misunderstand where I stand, I don't do ship to ship PvP, I mine, I run missions, I do a little exploration, I trade on the markets, in short I am a bear.
I understand that others out there may decide that they'd like to make me explode, I do my best to deter them, I know who they are, understand what they do and who they target.
I don't go afk, I don't use AP, I actually tank my haulers, expensive stuff gets farmed out to RF or PushX with the right collateral, I use a Procurer or a Skiff to mine. Unless I'm the only prey in the system most gankers will take the easier target.
TL;DR I'm a bear, I make sure that I'm harder to kill than the bear next to me. That is the balance
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Paranoid Loyd
2663
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Posted - 2014.11.19 00:12:33 -
[26] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I understand that others out there may decide that they'd like to make me explode, I do my best to deter them, I know who they are, understand what they do and who they target. Knowledge tank, best tank.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 00:19:09 -
[27] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You misunderstand where I stand, I don't do ship to ship PvP, I mine, I run missions, I do a little exploration, I trade on the markets, in short I am a bear.
I understand that others out there may decide that they'd like to make me explode, I do my best to deter them, I know who they are, understand what they do and who they target.
I don't go afk, I don't use AP, I actually tank my haulers, expensive stuff gets farmed out to RF or PushX with the right collateral, I use a Procurer or a Skiff to mine. Unless I'm the only prey in the system most gankers will take the easier target.
TL;DR I'm a bear, I make sure that I'm harder to kill than the bear next to me. Therein is the balance, I use the options available to me and I'm hard to kill easily.
Sorry for that, thanks for explaining your position.
It's hard to balance a game and make all players happy.
Fly safe!
And to everyone else. I didn't really want to lit the flame as you might have thought. I just gave a suggestion that you didn't like, that's all.
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Fenix Neutrino
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 00:20:13 -
[28] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I understand that others out there may decide that they'd like to make me explode, I do my best to deter them, I know who they are, understand what they do and who they target. Knowledge tank, best tank.
That's a truth that will never change anywhere.
Fly safe or unsafe if you are on that part ;) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21547
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 00:27:53 -
[29] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I understand that others out there may decide that they'd like to make me explode, I do my best to deter them, I know who they are, understand what they do and who they target. Knowledge tank, best tank. Half the fun is in watching everybody around you explode because you're the sole Skiff in the belt/ice anom, or flying through Uedama in a T1 hauler that aligns like a cruiser and packs 40k+ EHP.
Gankers are part of my content, they make life interesting, albeit mostly for others
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel
82
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Posted - 2014.11.19 00:28:46 -
[30] - Quote
Came into thread expecting gold tears. I am disappointed OP. The agreement of C&P is you post tears then leave. Not explain yourself and defend yourself properly. However no to your idea. Just no. |
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